Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5581 times:
Hmmh now...
I need to get a way to SAN, LAX or SFO cheaply..
then book this r/t on AA into BOS and then fly back. This may be a nice weekend for me sometimes this spring...
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5527 times:
This is precisely why LFCs have a hard time setting up shop in traditional network carrier markets. From AA's perspective, the cost is minimal to provide these benefits but the value of those routes to AA long term is high. It makes sense for them to fight to protect their markets. LFCs have to consider the costs involved in adding new markets and some of them might not be able to sustain the fight in this kind of environment.
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5510 times:
You have a good point there, but AA pulled this same crap into LGB against jetblue, and DAL against SWA, and look AA was forced to pull out of the markets from the respective cities.
Obviously, AA is not going to pull out of BOS and those routes but I am simply saying that those that are gonna fly AA will continue to do so regardless.
Will AA offer it again when WN starts up BOS too?
The people that ONLY booked AA were doing it for the miles and frequent flyers, and would probably continue to fly AA regardless.
I would think AA suffers more by offering this promotion as they lose more miles so to speak, with the person that was going to fly AA anyway.
NW/DL is already offering this promotion from MSP-CHI as well.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5491 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 3): This is precisely why LFCs have a hard time setting up shop in traditional network carrier markets. From AA's perspective, the cost is minimal to provide these benefits but the value of those routes to AA long term is high. It makes sense for them to fight to protect their markets. LFCs have to consider the costs involved in adding new markets and some of them might not be able to sustain the fight in this kind of environment.
Agreed. Especially since VX doesn't leverage bonus miles/points for new routes. Elevate clearly has a ways to go to entice the frequent traveler. I understand they wanted to simplify the accumulation/redemption of miles/points, but they are far from being competitive against the legacies with their loyalty program.
Vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8210 posts, RR: 28 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5382 times:
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Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4): The people that ONLY booked AA were doing it for the miles and frequent flyers, and would probably continue to fly AA regardless.
I would think AA suffers more by offering this promotion as they lose more miles so to speak, with the person that was going to fly AA anyway.
Eh, I dunno.
I've tended to fly AA between LAX and BOS simply because their prices were relatively cheap (not always the cheapest, but within reason), and because I have miles on AA.
However, when I see deals on B6 or VX (or any other airline), I always check them out. Last time I went to BOS, I flew B6. If AA's prices are significantly more than another airline's, then I'll fly that other airline.
But now, AA's having a sale on BOS-LAX airfare, and that, in addition to the 3x FF miles, is making me buy a ticket on AA.
I don't really know what class of passenger I fall into, but I am definitely swayed by AA's special offers.
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 34 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5375 times:
Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 1): Bargain basement fares and silver status after 2 RTs!
Hmmmmm... *checks credit card balance*
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
Runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 39 Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5363 times:
Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 1): Bargain basement fares and silver status after 2 RTs! Talk about watering down the FF benefits from BOS.
I'll still take my IFE on VX transcontinental, like I did last night SFO-BOS!
The promotional miles do not count for elite qualification. Neither does AA have a silver status (lowest is Gold).
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5326 times:
I should probably be specific, I was reffering to elite members.
However you probably are someone who flies for the miles but is easily swayed by promotions and cheap flights. Most of us are, that my friend is it's OWN classification!
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Iloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 750 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5299 times:
It is sickening how airlines like AA do their best to crush the competition. They know their in-flight product is inferior to VX, but they want to destroy them so they can raise their fares to ridiculously high levels, while continuing to provide an inferior product.
That is not a good way to do business and it ends up hurting the consumer. Do these carriers even care remotely about the people they serve? People deserve great in-flight service at affordable prices.
It's not about charging the highest fare possible! It's about providing great service at a great price.
I can't even fathom how some people on a.net defend these airlines' quests for monopoly power. Do they really want to pay $4,000 r/t to go BOS-SAN in Y, while getting no IFE, no food, and no drinks??? I mean, come on!
I really hope VX survives. They don't fly to where I live, but I would fly them if I could.
RafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 307 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5208 times:
Quoting Runway23 (Reply 8): The promotional miles do not count for elite qualification. Neither does AA have a silver status (lowest is Gold).
Duhhhhhhhhhhh Thanks for the reminder.
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 5): Elevate clearly has a ways to go to entice the frequent traveler. I understand they wanted to simplify the accumulation/redemption of miles/points
Agreed - but it's easy for me to know what my redemption opportunities may be.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): I can't even fathom how some people on a.net defend these airlines' quests for monopoly power. Do they really want to pay $4,000 r/t to go BOS-SAN in Y
Agreed! But on the absolute opposite end of the spectrum, I think VX has a flaw in their revenue model too. For all 5 flights I've flown on VX, only 1 F class seat was paid for prior to 24hrs before boarding. They hard sell those F class upgrades like crazy at the gate for between $50-$250, I can't fathom why anybody would purchase F class in advance.
AA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2271 posts, RR: 25 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5194 times:
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): It is sickening how airlines like AA do their best to crush the competition. They know their in-flight product is inferior to VX, but they want to destroy them so they can raise their fares to ridiculously high levels, while continuing to provide an inferior product.
Airlines have to compete. VX will do what they have to do to compete as well. AA is known for their own tactics, but they are not alone.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): People deserve great in-flight service at affordable prices.
People deserve a reasonable product, at an affordable price. When people start to expect a full meal and complementary upgrades by just paying $99, then it is time for a reality check. Unfortunately many passengers today have many misconceptions, and expectations about what is offered at an airline in today's environment.
As well as B6 (who will also now be flying LAX/SFO-BOS, in addition to SAN-BOS.)
It was nice of AA to include the OTHER trans-con city (SAN) this time; since they are re-starting SAN-BOS in April, they apparently consider it important enough to try to protect it as well.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): It is sickening how airlines like AA do their best to crush the competition.
It's called market protection and plain old competition, my friend, and it certainly is not unique to the airline industry...
Vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8210 posts, RR: 28 Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5130 times:
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Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): It is sickening how airlines like AA do their best to crush the competition. They know their in-flight product is inferior to VX, but they want to destroy them so they can raise their fares to ridiculously high levels, while continuing to provide an inferior product.
What would you have AA do, exactly? They have to try and compete.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): I can't even fathom how some people on a.net defend these airlines' quests for monopoly power. Do they really want to pay $4,000 r/t to go BOS-SAN in Y, while getting no IFE, no food, and no drinks??? I mean, come on!
I've flown AA many many times from BOS-LAX, and I've never paid anywhere close to $4000. Most I've paid was probably around $500 (roundtrip). Once prices get into that range, other carriers are generally cheaper, and I'll fly them instead.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): People deserve great in-flight service at affordable prices.
People (a.k.a. consumers) deserve exactly what they're willing to pay for. If they buy tickets for $4000, then that's what they deserve.
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
Iloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 750 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4969 times:
Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 14): What would you have AA do, exactly? They have to try and compete.
Yes, but having to "try and compete" doesn't mean to "obliterate the competition." They need to out-do each other on service quality. If AA wants to really compete with VX, they need to match their service standards, not under-cut them on price and offer triple frequent flier miles.
Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 14):
I've flown AA many many times from BOS-LAX, and I've never paid anywhere close to $4000.
I'm not saying the fares are $4,000. I'm saying that if AA had a monopoly on the route, they would probably charge that fare. These airlines are sinister when they have monopolies. They rape and pillage the consumers!!!
Quoting SANFan (Reply 13): It's called market protection and plain old competition,
I am all for competition. It's great for the consumer! But AA shouldn't try to destroy VX; they should try to match VX's service quality. Without competition, AA would offer really bad service with really high fares.
If these airlines want to charge higher fares, fine! But I'd better get a lot more for my money! You fly first class these days and (on a lot of flights) you barely get a meal (they've resorted to sandwiches, for crying out loud!), no PTVs/AVOD, or anything. It's totally unacceptable!
Airlines like VX and B6 set the standard for what air travel in the U.S. needs to be. It's like carriers like AA don't want to provide great service. They want to be Greyhound. I'm sorry, but if I want to take Greyhound, I'll take Greyhound. But, if I fly, I'm not paying for Greyhound-style service. If I pay over $500 r/t, I want a PTV with AVOD, good legroom and a hot meal (no, you don't even get that on a lot of first class flights these days). Other airlines can provide that kind of service in coach, why can't our airlines???
What happened to the "Doing what we do best!" motto from 1980s AA? They need to take lessons from VX and upgrade their entire fleet and I really don't care how much it costs! The state of their current domestic service quality is atrocious and not up to par! The executives should be ashamed of themselves!
I want to see our domestic carriers be successful, profitable and offer fantastic service! I know they can be far more than what they've become; they have so much potential!
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10190 posts, RR: 62 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4892 times:
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): It is sickening how airlines like AA do their best to crush the competition.
What's sickening is the ridiculous double-standard applied when large airlines try to fight back against new entrants. New entrants have every right to compete - on price, on schedule, on service, or anything else they decide to - but so do the incumbent carriers.
Just because they're big, and have been around longer, doesn't some how preclude them from having the same right to compete as everyone else.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 10): They know their in-flight product is inferior to VX, but they want to destroy them so they can raise their fares to ridiculously high levels, while continuing to provide an inferior product.
It's not about "destroying" Virgin or any other airline. It's about winning. That's what every profit-seeking corporation in a capitalist system wants to do: win. Why should AA or any other legacy airline not be allowed to do that?
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 15): They need to out-do each other on service quality.
No, they need to out-do each other on whatever basis they see fit and the market responds to - be that service quality, schedule frequency, frequent flyer program, fare levels, or whatever else. It's up to the market to decide how the airlines compete, and who ultimately wins.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 15): If AA wants to really compete with VX, they need to match their service standards, not under-cut them on price and offer triple frequent flier miles.
In your opinion.
There are obviously plenty of people - thousands each month, in fact - who are perfectly willing to put up with AA's supposedly-horrible service standards and fly them in transcon markets from New York, Boston and D.C. even though those same customers have Virgin America as an alternative. Why? Obviously those customers have a reason. Maybe it's schedule, frequent flyer loyalty, price, or something else.
But just because you think AA should be competing on service, and not on price or frequent flyer program, doesn't mean everybody does.
I, for one, would much rather fly with AA over Virgin America - assuming it wasn't unreasonably more expensive - because I have hundreds of thousands of frequent flyer miles invested in my loyalty to AA, and that means something to me. AA knows that. I know that.
But you obviously don't. And that's fine. You can go on flying on Virgin America because of their service, or AA because of their frequent flyer program, or another airline for price, or another airline for whatever reason you like. But please don't make broad, blanket generalizations about what's "sickening" and what other airlines ought to be doing to win my business when I am quite content with how they're treating me at the moment.
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4861 times:
Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 11): hey hard sell those F class upgrades like crazy at the gate for between $50-$250, I can't fathom why anybody would purchase F class in advance.
In that case they would be better off going with all Y class. People seem to know that if F is empty, just wait till DOD and get the upgrade. Not sure if the upgrades represent dilution or incremental revenue. FL obviously thinks it is incremental, F9 and B6 must think a F product would be dilutive, but on a long haul transcon, it is more likely to be dilutive.
Vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8210 posts, RR: 28 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4628 times:
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Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 15): Yes, but having to "try and compete" doesn't mean to "obliterate the competition." They need to out-do each other on service quality. If AA wants to really compete with VX, they need to match their service standards, not under-cut them on price and offer triple frequent flier miles.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't generally fly based on service standards. I (and I bet plenty of people) choose my airline based mainly on price. At the end of the day, it matters very little to me whether I fly B6, VX, or AA.
After that, there are secondary considerations. If several airlines have prices that are, say, within $30 of each other, then I'll probably choose based on FF miles, inflight entertainment, flight times, or whatever.
Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 15): I'm not saying the fares are $4,000. I'm saying that if AA had a monopoly on the route, they would probably charge that fare. These airlines are sinister when they have monopolies. They rape and pillage the consumers!!!
I know you didn't mean that literally.
However, if AA was charging ridiculous prices, I'd stop flying into BOS, and start flying WN into MHT or PVD, for example. Bottom line - I'm not going to pay for flights I can't afford.
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 9): However you probably are someone who flies for the miles but is easily swayed by promotions and cheap flights. Most of us are, that my friend is it's OWN classification!
Heh, see above - you've got it backwards. I'm primarily dictated by price, but can be swayed by miles or in-flight services, if prices are similar.
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
DLMD90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 257 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 17): Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 15):
If AA wants to really compete with VX, they need to match their service standards, not under-cut them on price and offer triple frequent flier miles.
In your opinion.
There are obviously plenty of people - thousands each month, in fact - who are perfectly willing to put up with AA's supposedly-horrible service standards and fly them in transcon markets from New York, Boston and D.C. even though those same customers have Virgin America as an alternative. Why? Obviously those customers have a reason. Maybe it's schedule, frequent flyer loyalty, price, or something else.
But just because you think AA should be competing on service, and not on price or frequent flyer program, doesn't mean everybody does.
I, for one, would much rather fly with AA over Virgin America - assuming it wasn't unreasonably more expensive - because I have hundreds of thousands of frequent flyer miles invested in my loyalty to AA, and that means something to me. AA knows that. I know that.
But you obviously don't. And that's fine. You can go on flying on Virgin America because of their service, or AA because of their frequent flyer program, or another airline for price, or another airline for whatever reason you like. But please don't make broad, blanket generalizations about what's "sickening" and what other airlines ought to be doing to win my business when I am quite content with how they're treating me at the moment.
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