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What Do You Miss About "the Good Old Days&quo  
User currently offlineTheredbaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 8
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12655 times:

Air Travel has changed a lot in the last 40 years, yes its a lot cheaper than before but the wow factor and the "jet set" no longer exists, in fact with the Concorde gone, travel as an experience has become boring, new introductions and EIS like the A380 or newer seats are the novelty thing nowadays, but so many things have changed, that today seem like legends or tall tales....

share yours...

Mine a lot, like getting as a kid to the cabin to meet the captain, getting my WESTERN AIRLINES WINGS.
Napkins with the logo and all the soaps in the lav, with logos and nice little boxes.
Traveling well dressed and with tie....

heck a lot have changed, metal knives and such, china in First class, big menus...

Getting to the tarmac via stairs and greeting people from the plane door....


The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5731 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12643 times:

The one thing I miss the most is flying AA, in coach, from Chicago to Dallas, and getting offered A CHOICE of Cajun Chicken OR Lasagne.
In a real bowl. Made out of porcelain. With an actual fork.
Now they charge you $5 for a slice of turkey rolled up in a tortilla, and it comes with a plastic spork, for whatever reason.


User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12637 times:

*Trailer trash sticking to Greyhound.
*People dressing up for flights (would it kill people to put on a polo and khakis these days?)
*Wide bodies on domestic flights.
*Booking a ticket on an airline meant you were flying that airline, not blah blah blah operated by xyz airline.
*Flying still had excitement in it. Now a days I show up to the airport and don't even get butterflies in my stomach anymore, and I go what happened?
*Airlines truly caring about customer service.
*F/As who truly enjoyed their jobs. (Kudos to those F/As who still do care, I know they're are still a ton of you out there but unfortunately those of you who hate your jobs stick out like a green thumb.)
*An transatlantic flight meant a wide body aircraft such as a DC-10, 747, L1011.

I know someone will say F/As in mini skirts and hot pants. I'm glad that's gone and I'm glad F/As are (although slowly) starting to get the respect they deserve.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3660 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12634 times:

I miss the ability to head to the airport and watch people depart and arrive airside, as well as planespotting.


The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

I miss the ability to get airside and watch aircraft from the terminal windows.

I DO NOT miss the ridiculously expensive tickets.

I miss the pervasive cigarette smoke everywhere even less.        To be completely honest, the memory of horrible smokiness basically overwhelms all other memories I have of flying in the pre-smoking-ban days.

[Edited 2009-04-18 14:45:28]

User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12610 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I miss being able to just spend a day walking around inside the airport. Going down the concourses to see the planes up close. Watching all the people rushing around to get to their final destinations. I also miss just parking around the airport perimeter without being harassed by the police. Lastly, I miss the sound of a 727 taking off. John.


JLB54061
User currently offlineBaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12602 times:

I miss the following:

Getting a real paper ticket in a wallet (saddo I know)
Full meal service on UK domestic flights (usually GLA/LHR)
British Midland
Seeing loads of wee aircraft in BA colours at the airport (again usually at Glasgow)

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2):
Trailer trash sticking to Greyhound.

Me too only its called National Express over here  Wink


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16824 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12601 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 3):
I miss the ability to head to the airport and watch people depart and arrive airside, as well as planespotting.

+ 1

I also miss not having to take off my shoes and throw out liquids, gels etc..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12600 times:

Seat 4D on a 727 200 drinking jack and cokes and enjoying a smoke...


Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineRB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12587 times:

Observation decks as well being able to see the rear of a/c hanging over the parking lot @ KATL , being able to sit in coach without getting crushed by the seat in front of me, watching the wings on a 727 "come apart" ,l-1011's and the sound of them starting their engines, the old Hartsfield terminal (KATL) , Whisperliners,Whisperjets,etc., being able to walk all of the way to the gate, the paint schemes on the aircraft, (as compared to the standard corporate liveries today.), i.e. the Delta Widget from the late 80's.Boarding DC-9's ,737's & 727's using air stairs instead of jet bridges.


Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4430 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12541 times:

I miss on time departures and on time arrivals.  cry 

User currently offlineJustlump From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12539 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I miss the smell of Jet-A while boarding via external stairs, and printed timetables.

User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2433 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12525 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I miss seeing the various commuter airlines and their own independent paint schemes and identities. I long for the pre-codesharing days.

Also, seeing mainline jets at the small cities ( Hughes Airwest DC-9 in Twin falls,ID; various 727s in Amarillo,etc) and so forth.

One vivid memory is transferring from United to Western in SFO and inhaling the mix of jet fuel and sea air outside. I still love that aroma when I can experience it these days.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4161 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12492 times:

Things I miss:

- Providing a service to be proud of
- Earning a salary comensurate with the responsibility I have
- Not seeing the filth of society boarding flights and acting like animals (sorry to insult animals)
- Not being treated as a threat to national security every time I go to work
- Being able to honestly recommend this industry as a viable career
- Duty Free on flights within the EU!
- People actually being willing to pay at least what it costs to fly them!  Wink



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12488 times:

What is missing most IMHO is the cooperation that used to exist among carriers.
Twenty five years ago everyone helped each other out. Got an over sale? No problem
Eastern will take them. Flight to Dallas just went south? No problem, send them to Delta.

We were all sort of family then. Even the customers knew it. "Sorry your flight is
canceled." They would laugh and say "Oh we get to go on an adventure!"

All of that is gone. The bean counters prohibit it.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineDBQ From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12488 times:

I miss the routine bonuses: 1984, a basic UA flight Boise to Denver, they held a drawing where if you had the oldest penny, you won a bottle of champagne.
I miss when a full flight was considered something disturbing, and about a dozen people were involved in trying to load up the flight.
I miss all the goodies and the free Old Style Special Export and extra legroom that Frontier had on its primitive 737s.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26854 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12473 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2):
*Trailer trash sticking to Greyhound.
*People dressing up for flights (would it kill people to put on a polo and khakis these days?)
*Wide bodies on domestic flights.
*Booking a ticket on an airline meant you were flying that airline, not blah blah blah operated by xyz airline.
*Flying still had excitement in it. Now a days I show up to the airport and don't even get butterflies in my stomach anymore, and I go what happened?
*Airlines truly caring about customer service.
*F/As who truly enjoyed their jobs. (Kudos to those F/As who still do care, I know they're are still a ton of you out there but unfortunately those of you who hate your jobs stick out like a green thumb.)
*An transatlantic flight meant a wide body aircraft such as a DC-10, 747, L1011.

Yes I agree with all of that. I also miss the A300-B4

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 13):
- Duty Free on flights within the EU!

That was the biggest con ever we were fed by Brussels. The excuse was to harmonise prices across the EU. Sure worked  Yeah sure

Bring back duty free within the EU.


User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4161 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12459 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
That was the biggest con ever we were fed by Brussels. The excuse was to harmonise prices across the EU. Sure worked

Bring back duty free within the EU.

Quite. It was complete rubbish.

If the EU wasnt a collection of sovereign states with full control over their own taxation, I would have agreed with it being abolished. Not so the way things are. Of course its fine for me as airline staff, I just get a zed ticket if I want to buy something and I know its significantly cheaper in some other country.. but thats not exactly viable for someone who has to pay full fare!  Wink



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12444 times:

I miss the First Class experience passengers felt when traveling in Tourist Class. I'm glad however that air travel has become affordable, but it's tough to travel Economy with today's seat pitch for long flights.

Having said that, I'm glad it's not the good old days. I don't know how many of you have had your fillings come off with the drone of a DC-3, or realize how essential the toffees and airsickness bags were in those days. The worst aspect of it was indeed the pervasive cigarette smoke - as fashionable as flying was in those days.

Air travel pre-INS, pre-turbine and pre-weather satellites was also not very safe. Airplanes got lost, banged into mountains, and flew into thunderstorms. Thank god for all the safety advances since that time! I am a little surprised, however, that we still fly around in tubes at 600 mph - we should have moved far beyond that!


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2331 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12428 times:

I miss the days when it came to plane spotting, variety was quite the spice. Now variety is which version of the 737NG are we going to see. From the enthusiast point of view, things are way too monotonous now. Starting with the demise of MDC and snow balling after 9/11.

Other than that, my user name says it all.  Smile



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12420 times:

I remember several flights in the 70's as a kid and getting served the most salty Salisbury steak, but it was good lol.. ahh full meal service

about all I can remember from the "good ole days"


User currently offlineAdam727 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12423 times:

I miss seeing the 727s around I have never been on them but I sure loved seeing the around.

User currently offlineFlyMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12416 times:

I MISS:

-The old airline ticket jackets and paper tickets
-Feeling like my business was appretiated
-Flying widebodies on trans-continental flights
-The DC-10 and the 727. God, I loved those aircraft.
-Getting good service in Coach!. Now, Business and First classes are like flying apartments (and priced accordingly) while Coach is the pits!
-Not having to strip at security
-Getting meals on flights (especially 5+ hour transcons and Hawaii runs)
-Themed flights (like special uniforms on Hawaii runs)
-The old UA colors
-The original Midway Airlines, Eastern, TWA, Pan Am and ATA

[Edited 2009-04-18 15:54:15]


Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12394 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2):

I know someone will say F/As in mini skirts and hot pants.

Duh! How could you not miss that!  drool 





Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2):
I'm glad that's gone and I'm glad F/As are (although slowly) starting to get the respect they deserve.

If anything they have less respect nowadays than in the yesteryear, but that's my opinion only.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12370 times:

jumpseating in the cockpit as a regular airline employee and even as a passenger
food in coach
Most of all TWA



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
25 Nwaesc : YES. Remember right before 9/11 the movement to make some airports a destination all on their own again? That'd be nice to see return... I dunno, I t
26 Skymiler : [quote=M11Stephen,reply=2*People dressing up for flights (would it kill people to put on a polo and khakis these days?) *Wide bodies on domestic fligh
27 TrijetsRMissed : I also miss how between the AA and UA hubs, ORD was DC-10 paradise. To an extent, the UA hub stayed this way up til the late 90's, AA not so much. The
28 Flood : yep, and... As a kid, actually being asked if I wanted to see the cockpit, without even having to ask myself! The poor kids these days, hehe. I also
29 Mal787 : agree 100% on all these Real cutlery Cockpit visits My last was in 2000 on a QF744 as we flew over India on way to Singapore from london Kids with ma
30 KRIC777 : Hallelujah....living in a city (Richmond, VA) with rather limited mainline service, I get tired of having to carefully book my flights and arrange my
31 QantasA333 : In fact, the local airport ADL still allows you to go airside even without a ticket I'm 15 so I have basically grown up in today's air travel state.
32 Pnwtraveler : The aircraft seating chart on the wall at the gate that they marked when a seat was assigned. The stickers with your Aeroplan number on that you place
33 Captaink : I miss BWIA West Indies Airways and riding the MD83 from the Caribbean to New York. I miss that upon take off, over a beautiful Caribbean sunset, I wo
34 M11Stephen : Yes, they were nice to look at but id rather have them be treated as a valuable member of a crew rather than the sex item they were portrayed as back
35 Rw717 : The little toys I got when I would non-rev on Hughes Airwest, i.e. the puzzle where you had to get the little ball bearing in the holes and the blow u
36 Jetplaner : I miss mainline service. Regional airliners air polluting airport. And yes, I know, they give more flights and frequencies, but I miss mainline aircra
37 ARGinLON : Yes, the meals in short haul flights is something a miss big time. I remember doing BA LHR-FCO and getting a full hot meal on a try with dessert follo
38 Mrcoffee : Non-rev on TWA. Going from employee parking at TWA SFO (By the hangar) to the employee crew bus, right to the TWA gates. Widebodies from PHX - STL (Us
39 Lincoln : My first flight was in Feburary of '89 (the Friday before the Superbowl, to be specific, FAT-SAN on Westair DBA United Express) -- I was talking to a
40 L1011Lover : What I miss the most: - Lockheed TriStar L1011's - Trijets in general (Boeing 727, DC-10...) - the varietey of different aircraft types and manufacter
41 DCA-ROCguy : A top 20 favorite Airliners.net chestnut. At least this time we're mostly talking about onboard service, the air travel experience, the charms (and di
42 MainMAN : A trip to the travel agent/airline office, sit down, discuss my travels plans, pay and get a paper ticket. I used to book all my LHR-MAN-LHR shuttle t
43 Acabgd : Someone mentioned the cooperation between airlines. As I flew non-rev more than often, I must say I really miss that. There was absolutely no question
44 Kaitak : Oh yes; that's certainly my favourite memory. Did over 70 jump seats in various different types; you never got tired of that. Got to say, I also miss
45 FLYjoe : I really miss being able to just head out to the airport, just for a day of terminal and concourse walking. I loved going from gate to gate, concourse
46 Jeffrey1970 : There are some things I miss like ticket jackets. I used to collect them. However, I think we often look at things in the past through rose colored gl
47 Tymnbalewne : I miss the days when overhead bins were just hat-racks and people only put hats and coats up there, vs. the Samsonites full of bricks that are stowed
48 7673mech : I will be lazy and say:
49 Cpd : That's not just for planes, but for long distance trains too. The trains I use everyday, back in the old days, everyone would be wearing their best c
50 Theredbaron : Do you remember the huge airplane stickers that had the whole seating arrangement in clors and classes? NO PRIMADONAS , after 11A was pulled from the
51 Shamrock604 : I agree 100%, the price had to come down. But to 1 cent as we see here in Europe? That's taking it a tad too far IMHO. There are basics that need to
52 C010T3 : I miss the cozy little pillows that were offered on intercontinental flights. I used to have a collection of them. Surprisingly, I was really fond of
53 Ridgid727 : Western Airlines Mainland-Hawaii Volcano Punch & "Islander" Service Western Airlines Hunt Breakfast Delta Airlines Royal Service Hughes AirWest Califo
54 EDICHC : Towards the end of duty free within the EU I stopped buying at airports, particularly in Spain as I found what you saved in duty, the airport shops c
55 C5LOAD : Nowadays it's what anybody can get away with wearing the most tattered of shirts with profanity on them. +2 That's why I love flying on the DC-9 when
56 474218 : Maybe because some people would steal those "cozy little pillows" is the reason why airlines don't offer them anymore.
57 Articulatexpat : The notion of 'the good old days' has a lot to do with your age and your location. At 38, I missed the gracious era being discussed here, although I r
58 C010T3 : They could have started charging for them. You can't find those in that size anymore. Just a shame.
59 CAMPBELL : - Getting system timetables at the counter - Access to departure gates and taking video and still pictures - Real Jets (DC-9s, 737s, 727s) rather than
60 AllegiantAir : On the General Aviation side, I miss when even the small single runway airports had planes taking off and landing every 10 minutes. Nowadays in my par
61 Thebatman : I miss the days when everyone you saw around your airplane was an employee of THAT AIRLINE.
62 Lufthansa : You know what people, a lot of the things you are all complaining about are still out there on some very good airlines today. For example. Let's fly f
63 AirframeAS : Being able to non-rev without so much hassle out of ANC on AS. Now I hear it is a pain in the butt to get out of ANC as a non-rev. And the many freque
64 Post contains links and images STT757 : Eastern Air Lines View Large View MediumPhoto © John Kelly[Edited 2009-04-18 20:56:04]
65 Shamrock604 : Indeed, and you quote good examples. The likes of SQ and MH are about as close as it gets these days. Now, dont get me wrong. There's plenty I dont m
66 PlanenutzTB : SWA plastic boarding passes.
67 ItalianFlyer : Observations decks...where people of all ages marveled at "high tech" 74-200s and L-1011s...and if you were lucky, you could get a face full of jetwas
68 Txjim : I remember the days when airports were special places rather than shopping centers. My best memory dates back to the late 60s. An early morning drive
69 LimaNiner : In addition to what's already been said... * Meeting my dad at the jetway at arrivals. * Flying "UM" with big, embarrassing orange neck tags between H
70 M11Stephen : On I think it was night line or something last night, Michael Oleary (or w/e his name is) said "Flying should be getting on a bus with wings, nothing
71 Aircellist : Observation windows and deck at Dorval DC-8 and 707 at Dorval Air Inter, with Caravelle and Mercure (and maybe the friendliest boarding agent ever) vi
72 TheGov : - A free deck of cards (thanks, DL - my mom always had a deck around the house!) - Color coded bag tags. On DL, LAS was Red and Black and you could sp
73 Theredbaron : I dont know if some fellow aneters here had the pilot engage in sightseeing mode, for example: Here is the Captain on your left you have a real nive v
74 Cpd : But beware of paying premium prices for premium carriers, and then getting shunted onto the budget cattle-class arm of the same airline. It still hap
75 Floorrunner : Pan Am TWA The old North Terminal at EWR, (When it was the only terminal) The paper time tables. I must have hundreds of them stored away. Being excit
76 Qantas767 : Being able to visit the flightdeck...
77 HAMAD : as a kid, 25 years ago people appreciated the "boarding families with children" policy when offered. i always remembered being 5 years old, with my yo
78 WNCrew : ... they probably ran out of room what with the.... Lemme guess, ALL of the horridness of where we are today is the Airlines' fault, NONE of the blam
79 M11Stephen : We also have to remember what we have today and didn't have back then. WIFI, IFE, safety has dramatically improved (I'm definitely not saying flying b
80 T5towbar : I miss PeoplExpress. It was my first job, and my first ride on a airplane. I also miss climbing up and down the stairs of airplanes at the old North
81 4holer : In addition to some of the great things listed already... For me, when love of aviation was a total sensory experience... Smelling the kerosene in the
82 M404 : Because of six mergers from a carrier with 19 cities to the "Largest Airline in the World" I miss being a person as much as the passenger does. I miss
83 RJ111 : Too many twins in the air today! And it's going to get worse.
84 Sevenforty : That's a bit naughty. But easily resolved. Just don't fly Southwest, Ryanair or Virgin Atlantic. (sorry couldn't resist)
85 BRUspotter : I miss flying as an 'unaccompanied minor' on NW49 LGW-BOS to visit my uncle for the holidays in the 80's. The crew once put me me in Executive class,
86 Brilondon : This would involve a small mortgage on your house in order to fly though. Seriously I miss being able to stand on the 7th floor oof the parking ggara
87 EXTspotter : Calm down... I am happy that deregulation happened and the growth of Low Cost Carriers, because if they didn't exist, I would have never left the coun
88 Sevenforty : I remember when I was a kid standing in the car park at LGW and seeing a big old British Caledonian 747 taking off literally into the sunset and think
89 Jonjonnl : I only miss two things: The ease with which you went to the airport, checked-in, passed security and did some shopping before boarding your flight. No
90 AFKL : And that is the way it is supposed to be. Mind you, I have never experienced the real "good old days" of flying, I am merely 18 years old, but have b
91 Maverick623 : I know for myself, I was brought into this at the tail end of "the good old days". I wondered myself last year why on earth I should stay in this ind
92 Viscount724 : I'm old enough to remember the days when there were no security checks at all. That only started in the early 1970s at most airports after several te
93 4holer : I miss when this thread could have stayed in the Civil Aviation forum and be enjoyed as opposed to banishment to the Realm of the Unseen...
94 Isitsafenow : Very well put and...........amen. safe
95 Acabgd : Agree. Since it was moved there was like 5 replies... I really don't get it.
96 4holer : I just did the survey just to say to fold this forum back into Civil. If they are going to banish nice threads like this then it defeats the original
97 Falstaff : I hate that kind of thing these days. What really burns me is that the reason it is operated by xyz airline is to get away with paying the crews pean
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