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H1N1 Influenza: My Rights And Duties  
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

Hey everyone,

Coming saturday I have to go to DXB for the Dubai Air Show. Now currently lot's of people in my nearby surroundings are infected with swineflu. (people in church, classmates, collegues, family). I am using public transport lot's of times. So after all, I have a fairy good chance to get ill too. Symptoms don't seem to bad, still it isn't fun to have it.

If this is the case, can LX (with whom I'm flying) forbid me to fly with them? If they can, do they have to offer me a flight when I am totally recovered?

Same goes for SK, as I will be flying them on the return leg.

So in short: what are my rights and duties when I get ill? Is there anyone well informed in this matter, willing to explain?

Thanks in advance!

Erik


Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 982 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

It's a viral illness, that for political reasons has been blown totally out of proportion! First, get the vaccine, IF available... Next, should you get sick, there are antiviral meds that should get you well within hours to a few days-they are pretty dramatic. If you DO get sick, which in my office means that you feel like you've been hit by a truck, coughing a lung out, high fevers, you stay away from the public, and certainly don't put your breeding bugs into a tin can with recirculating air for hours on end. Common sense, in my opinion. Can an airline ban you? Probably. Some airlines have been known to remove putrid, smelly passengers from an aircraft, rather than inconvenience (for lack of a better word), their other passengers.

As for influenza and aircraft passengers, you might wish to do a google search for "influenza, Alaska, aircraft". (I'm too lazy to do it myself, but there was a great case of influenza spreading on a grounded aircraft in Alaska several years ago. I think about 1/3 of the passengers were infected with influenza after about 4 hours on the ground)



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineACElite From Canada, joined Oct 2009, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3415 times:



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
Next, should you get sick, there are antiviral meds that should get you well within hours to a few days-they are pretty dramatic.

I highly suggest you go and read the side effects of Anti-Viral medication.. These meds are reserved for extreme cases (near death) due to the extreme side effects.


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4271 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

If you get ill, your travel insurance will cover your expenses and that's it. You can't travel when you are ill (having the swine flu). Also, if you get ill in DXB, you contact a doctor and of course, your insurance. They will take care for your recovery flight.
Said that, I expect you to are insured well for these items.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3342 times:



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
It's a viral illness, that for political reasons has been blown totally out of proportion! First, get the vaccine, IF available.

I agree 100%. Unfortunately the vaccine isn't available unless you're a kid, health care worker or elderly....yada yada and the lines in our area are 4-6 hours long for the people that are eligible.

It has been blown way out of proportion, I had the H1N1 a few weeks ago and it wasn't bad at all. Fever, achy and a cough but really no different than any other time you're sick...just annoying.

Anyway, during this time I had a flight on a US airline from LAX to Chicago while I wasn't feeling well (fever and coughing) and tried to change my ticket by a few days to do my part not to spread it. I called the airline twice and told them the situation and got the same answer both times....change fee plus fare difference. I spoke to a supervisor the second time and he said he would waive the change fee but still had to pay several hundred for the fare difference. As I was traveling on my own dime, I wasn't going to shell out several hundred dollars that I didn't have so I just flew sick.

For the shear number of my friends, family, coworks and their kids that have had this over the past month, just think how many have been on planes? I would bet that almost every flight that I've been on someone currently has the H1N1, so really, I wouldn't worry about it at all cause if you haven't been sick yet, you'll probably get it but like I said above, it isn't any big deal for the general population, just annoying.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13161 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3264 times:
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Quoting Joeljack (Reply 4):
and the lines in our area are 4-6 hours long for the people that are eligible.

We felt lucky to only wait 3.5 hours. Ugh...

The disease is blown out of proportion, but if you can get vacinated, please do. Symptoms will be much worse when people are weakened by the traditional 'flu season' weather.

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 4):
I would bet that almost every flight that I've been on someone currently has the H1N1,

So true. I would be surprised if more than half the flights were not spreading H1N1.

It is a bad flu, but it is politically blown out of proportion. They've found a school child will infect ~2.4 people on average (vs. 1.6 for a 'normal flu.') So H1N1 is finding more hosts than a typical flu. I've avoided it, but quite a few coworkers have been knocked down by it. One came into work as he had already 'used up' his sick days (when he really wasn't sick too... $&^$).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8413 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3184 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 5):
t is a bad flu, but it is politically blown out of proportion. They've found a school child will infect ~2.4 people on average (vs. 1.6 for a 'normal flu.') So H1N1 is finding more hosts than a typical flu. I've avoided it, but quite a few coworkers have been knocked down by it. One came into work as he had already 'used up' his sick days (when he really wasn't sick too... $&^$).

Those numbers can't be trusted. No one goes to the dr. when they get the seasonal flu so how can they accurately say that a kid will only infect 1.6? Also the seasonl flu vaccine is more widely available and the season is much shorter. The higher rate of infection is a direct correlation to the paranoia regarding this flu. More people go to the doctor so therefore, officially more people are infected. My 5 year old son got it a week ago. It lasted 3 days of very mild symptoms. He passed it on to my wife who had 4 days or symptoms equivalent to the regular flu. And I never got it  Smile It shows you, it's not all that contagious and it's not all that severe. It's just the flu for cryin' that loud.


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

This is not blown out of proportion, it is a dangerous flu to any elderly or child who contacts it. Just because you fought it off does not mean the whole world is built exactly like your bodies

User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3102 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 7):
This is not blown out of proportion, it is a dangerous flu to any elderly or child who contacts it.

ANY flu is dangerous to children and the elderly - yearly statistics demonstrate that perfectly.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8413 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3087 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 7):
This is not blown out of proportion, it is a dangerous flu to any elderly or child who contacts it. Just because you fought it off does not mean the whole world is built exactly like your bodies

Oh please you're buying the media paranoia. There's absolutely no evidence that this flu is any worse than any other flu. The only difference is that this one is not limited to the relgular cold months. 20,000 die of the seasonal flu in the US every year. My own pediatrician told us to not pay attention to anything we see on TV because it's been blown out of proportion. Yes, i agree, there are some people who are at greater risk than others. They are the same people who are at risk for the seasonal flu  Smile
It would not stop me from getting on a plane, that's for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if a business, like an airline, would stop people from getting on a plane but how can they enforce that? It's not like they have doctors or nurses checking every passenger that checks in. Telling someone they can't get on the plane because they "look sick" is like telling someone they can't get on the plane becuase "i don't like the clothes you're wearing"  Smile


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3022 times:

Guys, thanks for your advices.

Guess I will have to do with eating healthy food and washing my hands regularly, as I will get my vaccinations in three weeks after I visited Dubai. I have a travel insurance, and I have checked and they indeed will refund my money if I have to cancel my trip because of illness. Still, I planned to make some money there and have meetings and conferences with some people/companies I'd love to attend to, and obviously I can't get a sort of refund for that from my insurance company.
The question I wanted an answer for most was if I was allowed to fly with an infection, or shortly after. And it's perfectly answered.

Thanks again!



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineDAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2992 times:
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No mean to be rude, but people please stop panicking. Why does everyone insist upon that vaccine? Just eat fruit, buy a few Vitamin C pills, drink a lot of water and tea (no Coke, Pepsi or God-knows-what) and that's it.

It's all about every person's immune system. The governments are fooling everyone to get vaccinated. Are you sure it's safe?

Wake up, my fellow flying friends!! It's no more than a mere cold/normal flu - I don't have it and haven't had it but it's what a friend of dad who was supposedly infected said. There's so much panic and hysteria being created. Absolutely blown out!!

Cheers!



Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13161 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2976 times:
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Quoting Airbazar (Reply 6):
so how can they accurately say that a kid will only infect 1.6?

Back to back studies at individual schools over the years. There is a large error bar. Believe what you want to, but the studies I've seen (and read enough detail) have H1N1 slightly more contageous than the normal seasonal flu. Perhaps as you noted it is due to the vaccine availability.

This is no Spanish Influenza. That is certain. But we also have a flu spreading during weather conditions that normally do not support large scale flu transmission. But it has taken down some of my coworkers. Some have had to be hospitalized. So I would strongly disagree with it being a 'normal flu.' You did well. But every reasonably baselined study points to this being a worse than average flu due to:
1. Tranmission rates outside of normal 'flu weather.'
2. Death rate amoung the 5 to 25 age group. (It is higher than normal, but does seem to be more concentrated among the obese. This could be a demographic thing.)
3. Severity of the symptoms in ~5% of the people who catch it. Congradulations, your family was in the other 95%.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
absolutely no evidence that this flu is any worse than any other flu.

Then explain the prevelance of the flu this early in the year. Its death rate among the obese sticks out among flus.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
It's not like they have doctors or nurses checking every passenger that checks in.

Some airports have this (NRT) and it is recommended for the Hajj.

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 7):
This is not blown out of proportion, it is a dangerous flu to any elderly or child who contacts it.

Part of the concern is it is killing healthier individuals in greater numbers than normal. However, that needs to be looked into. Early indications are that it is killing otherwise healthy obese individuals at a far higher rate than normal. I do not know why and these early studies could be proven wrong

But this thread is on air travel and disease. If you are sick, you should try to avoid flying. Don't be paranoid as for 95% of the people, this is just a bad seasonal flu. But there is no denying that its a bad flu when it is spreading during a season *when other flu's are not yet getting traction.*

I've bookmarked this thread for reference for when we actually get into flu season weather (Northern hemisphere). I do not buy into the media parania. But this is certainly worse than a normal flu. Oh, the 'death rate' is no worse than a bad seasonal flu. But this is comparing a death rate in mild weather versus a death rate in normal flu weather! Believe the studies or not, but the rate of transmission certainly seems higher just from my observation. High enough that the numbers I quoted seem reasonable. H1N1 symptoms are bad. I think one reason people are not dying is they are 'taking care of themselves' earlier and staying home. I've had a few coworkers out for two weeks! On their backs the whole time. The symptom severity is worse than normal among those that I know who had it (and verified H1N1).

We're vacinated (young child and our social circle has a few pregnant women) and I recommend it for anyone who can get the vacinated. Panic? No. Again, this is no Spanish Influenza. But we're not in the flu season yet... Flus are worse then for a reason.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2914 times:



Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 11):


No mean to be rude, but people please stop panicking. Why does everyone insist upon that vaccine? Just eat fruit, buy a few Vitamin C pills, drink a lot of water and tea (no Coke, Pepsi or God-knows-what) and that's it.

I couldn't care less about getting ill or sick for a few days. I do care about may be being kicked off my flights to one of the greater two-year events in the world of aviation.

And you are right people can do quite much by just watching what they eat and drink.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8413 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2901 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 12):
Then explain the prevelance of the flu this early in the year. Its death rate among the obese sticks out among flus.

.
That's what I said, the only difference between this flu and the others is that this one doesn't just occure during the winter months. If you extend the flu season from 3 to 9 months you should triple the number of annual deaths from it. It's simple math. It doesn't make it more deadly on a case by case basis. It just means there's a higher probablity that you will get infected because now the flu season is longer.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 12):
Part of the concern is it is killing healthier individuals in greater numbers than normal. However, that needs to be looked into.

So are car accidents but I don't stop driving to work every day. And "heathy individuals" in a country where the obesity rate is out of control, 40 million don't have health insurance, and high school athletes are jacked up on steroids, is a very relative term.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

Guys, please consider doing this discussion somewhere else. I am grateful to you for answering my question, but I won't like it when this thread get's locked as it seems the mod's are keeping a record of all my posts, I just found out. And my first self-opened topic being closed by mod's because of off-topic discussion doesn't look nice on my Airliners.net CV. Thank you very much!

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 14):
And "heathy individuals" in a country where the obesity rate is out of control, 40 million don't have health insurance, and high school athletes are jacked up on steroids, is a very relative term.

ROFL!



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineDfambro From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

You may find some of this information useful.

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/content/novel-h1n1-flu.aspx

That's US information so doesn't bear directly on your situation. FWIW I've looked into UA since most of travel is with them and they do not appear to have a specific policy.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Thank you for the link! I am not travelling in the US, nor with UA, but it was quite useful!

Thanks again,



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 982 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2743 times:



Quoting ACElite (Reply 2):
These meds are reserved for extreme cases (near death) due to the extreme side effects.

One of the big differences between medicine in the US and medicine in Canada, perhaps. Somehow, my patients on antivirals aren't dropping dead like flies, nor have they ever done so. I pay too much in malpractice premiums to want to get sued, so I am one hell of a conservative MD. These drugs are very, very safe, and very, very effective when used properly.

And thanks guys for recognizing just how ridiculous flu "death" numbers are. I don't give a hoot what CDC says, if we lose 20-30,000 people annually-(ie per flu season), to "flu", that means a minimum 400-600 deaths per flu season per state. I don't see deaths like that. I don't hear my colleagues lamenting their massive patient death rates in their practices... It's bogus. Yes, some people will die, which is a great reason to get vaccinated-the mainstay of treatment. And once sick, get the flu meds, they work, and at least down here in the 50, we don't reserve them for the terminally ill. And PLEASE don't go to work or school and spread it! It's great for my practice and income ,but I really don't want you to get sick. And stay of the planes!

This is common sense we are talking, not Ebola Fever or Bubonic Plague!



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2830 posts, RR: 45
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2720 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
It would not stop me from getting on a plane, that's for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if a business, like an airline, would stop people from getting on a plane but how can they enforce that? It's not like they have doctors or nurses checking every passenger that checks in. Telling someone they can't get on the plane because they "look sick" is like telling someone they can't get on the plane becuase "i don't like the clothes you're wearing"

If you know you have the flu (any type) and are symptomatic, you shouldn't be on a plane.

It's true that airlines don't have medical staff screening every passenger, BUT if a passenger is thought to be ill they can have an on call professional examine the passenger before the flight. This may incur a delay. I have seen it happen once, and after the examination, the passenger was cleared to fly. Our airline specifically delineates that the final judge of passenger suitability for any flight is the Captain. He or she is accountable for that decision and passenger removal is not taken lightly, but it does happen, though normally for being under the influence, belligerent, or other similar issue. Medical unsuitability is one of the specific reasons a passenger can be denied boarding.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19802 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2666 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):

Oh please you're buying the media paranoia. There's absolutely no evidence that this flu is any worse than any other flu.

Unfortunately, due to the media hype, it seems as if people are falling to one extreme or the other.

The fact is that H1N1 is significantly more virulent than other strains of influenza. It is currently responsible for >95% of influenza cases in the U.S. It causes worse disease and is more aggressive.

However, it is a flu virus. It is not the world-ender that the media made it seem to be at the beginning.

Dismissing it as "just another flu" is just as inaccurate as panicking and calling it the next bubonic plague.


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