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Passport Within U.S.?  
User currently offlineIlovepabst From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 102 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4635 times:

My mother-in-law who lives in ABQ swears that they are requiring U.S. citizens to have a passport to enter/leave the state via the airport. She says it is related to border states and Homeland Security. I have seen or heard nothing about this and can't imagine their is any truth to it. Please confirm that yes, my mother-in-law is crazy.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAD51FL From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 354 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4621 times:

Yes she is crazy.

Chris



Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.9758015, -95.2695694
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4518 times:

Maybe a special passport control? Surely, US authorities will be allowed to perform identity checks of anyone they want to? I experienced something similar some weeks ago in Europe: I arrived at SXF from ATH, and there was a passport control upon arrival, even though usually there is none because Germany and Greece are both Schengen states.


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User currently offlineTimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4481 times:

When traveling by air in the US you required to have a valid form of Government issued photo ID. Now let say someone is traveling ABQ-ORD-LHR yes they would be required to show a passport at check in in ABQ.

[Edited 2009-12-11 12:09:55 by timberwolf24]


Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4481 times:
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PHOTO SCREENER

I would say that maybe she is referring to the READ ID act, where "Federal" ID is required for entry to federally controlled sites, airports, and nuclear facilities. More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act


User currently offlineIlovepabst From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4405 times:



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 4):
I would say that maybe she is referring to the READ ID act, where "Federal" ID is required for entry to federally controlled sites, airports, and nuclear facilities. More here:

This is probably where her story got some legs. Thanks. Is New Mexico or any other state planning on enforcing these rules anytome soon?


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1665 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4383 times:
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Quoting Timberwolf24 (Reply 3):
When traveling by air in the US you required to have a valid form of Government issued ID. Now let say someone is traveling ABQ-ORD-LHR yes they would be required to show a passport at check in in ABQ.

Not totally true, only a state or federal government issued photo ID is required, like a drivers license, pistol permit etc., a passport is considered a government issued photo ID, but a passport is not required for domestic airline travel.

Quoting Ilovepabst (Thread starter):
My mother-in-law who lives in ABQ swears that they are requiring U.S. citizens to have a passport to enter/leave the state via the airport. She says it is related to border states and Homeland Security. I have seen or heard nothing about this and can't imagine their is any truth to it. Please confirm that yes, my mother-in-law is crazy.

I don’t think she is crazy, she might have seen or heard that some people use their passports as their photo ID’s for domestic travel on the airlines.

Personally my wife and I always use our passports as our ID’s when flying domestically on the airlines, I find it is easier than both of use digging into our wallets to get our drivers license out each time, sometimes photo ID’s need to be shown 3 times, if we check luggage at the desk, going through security and entering the Sky Club. Our passports live in my attaché case so they are much easier to retrieve for identifications purposes, I have seen other US citizens using their passports as well.

I also find that the TSA does not scrutinize closely our passports as they do drivers licenses looking for forgeries, basically they just do a quick check to see if we are the persons listed on our passports, so we get through security a little quicker, I think it makes their jobs a little bit easier.

Also with using our passports, if anything happens to them or our drivers licenses, we still have the other as backup for government photo ID purposes.

JetStar

[Edited 2009-12-11 12:10:11]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4363 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 6):
Personally my wife and I always use our passports as our ID’s when flying domestically on the airlines, I find it is easier than both of use digging into our wallets to get our drivers license out each time, sometimes photo ID’s need to be shown 3 times,

That is exactly what I do. I don't need to be the guy in the security line who spends five minutes digging out my license.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4336 times:

The media in New Mexico have stated that on 1-1-2010 a passport will be required (or other ID like Military) to process a TSA checkpoint at ABQ. They claim the NM DL will no longer be valid due to Real ID

Linked story here:

http://www.koat.com/news/21766864/detail.html


Story Quote:
"Because New Mexico issues driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, come Jan. 1, state licenses won't comply with the REAL ID law and won't be accepted at airports. "



Now according to the Gilmore case you don't need ID to fly anyway, that opens the door for the whole TSA id verification routine. But mom-in-law is not as crazy as you think on this one.

Whether this will all come to fruition is another matter. There was a thread about this at Flyertalk a few days ago with some other links to the TSA and Real id news.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineIlovepabst From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4336 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 6):
I don’t think she is crazy, she might have seen or heard that some people use their passports as their photo ID’s for domestic travel on the airlines.

She was claiming that she could not travel domestically WITHOUT a passport, not simply just using her passport as her form of ID. The post from Clickhappy about the REAL ID Act I,m sure is waht she is referring to.


User currently offlineTimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4250 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 6):

Quoting Timberwolf24 (Reply 3):
When traveling by air in the US you required to have a valid form of Government issued ID. Now let say someone is traveling ABQ-ORD-LHR yes they would be required to show a passport at check in in ABQ.

Not true, only a state or federal government issued photo ID is required, like a drivers license, pistol permit etc., a passport is considered a government issued photo ID, but a passport is not required for domestic airline travel.

That is what had said (I did leave out photo ID but I did change that) for domestic travel, but in the example ABQ-ORD-LHR YES you would need a passport. I flew NW ORD-DTW-FRA (this was before the photo ID being needed to travel domestically) at check in in Chicago I was asked for my Passport. Now if I did not have my passport I would not have been allowed on the flight in Chicago.



Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4215 times:



Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
Surely, US authorities will be allowed to perform identity checks of anyone they want to?


No they are not; in the US a law enforcement officer can't ask you for an ID if your are not suspect of any wrongdoing.

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 8):
The media in New Mexico have stated that on 1-1-2010 a passport will be required (or other ID like Military) to process a TSA checkpoint at ABQ. They claim the NM DL will no longer be valid due to Real ID

I am not a lawyer, but I can not see how this can be enforced.
- US citizens are not required to obtain passports if they do not wish to exit the US,
- They are not required to carry military ID either.
- For most of us the only available government issued ID is our state issued driver's license.
- The TSA has no authority to enforce federal immigration law.
In other words, this sounds like a hoax, but if it is not the policy will be eliminated after the first lawyer looking for some publicity will sue the TSA for violating hes legal rights.

DLP


User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4141 times:



Quoting Timberwolf24 (Reply 3):
Now let say someone is traveling ABQ-ORD-LHR yes they would be required to show a passport at check in in ABQ.

That's a very misleading and erronous example, although your wording cleverly makes it correct......by checking-in for their international flight at ABQ they would have to present a passport, although not for security purposes. This is certainly not the same thing in relation to the question the thread starter was referring to. If I'm travelling the other way, LHR-ORD-ABQ, I certainly do not need a passport for the ORD-ABQ sector.
A passport is an immigration document NOT a security document, and it's surprising how so many on this board don't know the difference.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4094 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 11):
I am not a lawyer, but I can not see how this can be enforced.
- US citizens are not required to obtain passports if they do not wish to exit the US,
- They are not required to carry military ID either.
- For most of us the only available government issued ID is our state issued driver's license.
- The TSA has no authority to enforce federal immigration law.
In other words, this sounds like a hoax, but if it is not the policy will be eliminated after the first lawyer looking for some publicity will sue the TSA for violating hes legal rights.

New Mexico is not the only state where this is building.

They will not be able to sue the TSA - they will have to sue the Congress which passed the law. The TSA will only be enforcing the Real ID law.

Basically, the federal law says that for a state ID - driver's license - to be used for federal purposes - such as air travel - the state has to meet certain requirements to establish the identity of the person receiving the ID. And also provide certain data standardization, anti-forgery and record keeping requirements.

The state of New Mexico has not complied with those requirements.

All the TSA screeners will say is that is not a federally acceptable ID.

This will not only be at ABQ - but all across the country. If you show up at BOS with a New Mexico driver's license - the TSA screeners are supposed to say the same thing,

And if I show up at ABQ with a state of Texas driver's license - it will be just fine.

EDIT - but the implementation is a bit off and gets confusing. The ID must be from a state which complies Real ID "after 2011" - so at least two years away from now.

Also, if someone was born after 1 Dec 1964 - they must have a Real ID Act compliant ID as of 1 Dec 2014. Between "after 2011" and 1 Dec 2014 they can use a valid ID that is not Real ID compliant as long as it is from a statre compliant with Real ID.

Those born before 1 Dec 1964 have until 1 Dec 2017 to obtain a Real ID compliant ID.

That allows people to phase in renewals - such as was required for me in Texas this year when I had to bring in proof if citizenship before my Texas DL which I've had for 23 years could be renewed.

[Edited 2009-12-11 13:03:46]

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4004 times:



Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 11):
No they are not; in the US a law enforcement officer can't ask you for an ID if your are not suspect of any wrongdoing.

That depends where you are. Some places, not carrying ID is itself illegal.

Quoting AirNz (Reply 12):
If I'm travelling the other way, LHR-ORD-ABQ, I certainly do not need a passport for the ORD-ABQ sector.

 checkmark 

Indeed, if you were flying LHR-ATL-ABQ, you could throw your passport in the garbage after clearing immigration and still make it to ABQ. At airports like ATL (and MEM, CVG, etc.) where the security checkpoints process all incoming international passengers - local and connecting - no ID is required at the checkpoint, and ID is never required to board a domestic flight in the States.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1665 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4000 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
no ID is required at the checkpoint, and ID is never required to board a domestic flight in the States.

True, but you will be subject to secondary screening by the TSA, but you can still board an airplane without ID.

JetStar


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3071 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3998 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 12):
A passport is an immigration document NOT a security document

Actually, you're wrong.

A passport is a travel identity document recognized under various international conventions and state-parties' implementing legislation (along with other travel identity documents, such as the certificates of identity issued to convention refugees). Passports are issued by the country of which the holder is a citizen.

Immigration documents, such as permanent resident visas, visitor visas, work visas, etc., are issued by the country into which a person wishes to enter, not the country of citizenship.

In addition, many countries specify in air transportation security legislation / regulations that a passport is an acceptable document for security identification purposes (often along with other photo identification documents such as drivers licences). A passport thus also serves as a security document.

Quoting AirNz (Reply 12):
it's surprising how so many on this board don't know the difference.

Indeed!



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3996 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 15):
True, but you will be subject to secondary screening by the TSA, but you can still board an airplane without ID.

Reread what I said. I was talking specifically about the situation at places like ATL. There's no ID check there.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3071 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3994 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
ID is never required to board a domestic flight in the States.

Interesting, given all the allegations from U.S. senators who should know better about Canadian security - photo ID is absolutely required to board any domestic flight in Canada.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3968 times:



Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 18):
Interesting, given all the allegations from U.S. senators who should know better about Canadian security

 Confused

We permit Canadians to board flights in the States without additional security screening. That suggests, to me at least, that we are pretty comfortable with Canadian security.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3071 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

[quote=Cubsrule,reply=19]
I know. I was referring to the senators (including former senator Clinton) who keep on repeating that the 9/11 hi-jackers, or some of them, entered the U.S. via lax Canadian security, and Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano who is currently spending $billions reinforcing the U.S. / Canada border (and seriously damaging U.S. / Canada trade) in order to protect the U.S. from the terrorist threat posed by lax Canadian security.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

This real ID thing is becoming really ridiculous and complicated. I'm in FL where Real ID is a go. The FL DHSMV is agressively campaigning through their ''gather, go, get'' TV ads about getting realdy for Real ID. The most important change is that a person will have to bring in two proofs of ID with official residential adress.

http://gathergoget.com/

Notice that a FL drivers license is now more than an ID

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
Maybe a special passport control?

But I've been told it can happen. Apparently in the San Diego area there have been instances where INS officials place themselves at highway exits and ask for ID based on immigration checks.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3903 times:



Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 20):
I know. I was referring to the senators (including former senator Clinton) who keep on repeating that the 9/11 hi-jackers, or some of them, entered the U.S. via lax Canadian security, and Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano who is currently spending $billions reinforcing the U.S. / Canada border (and seriously damaging U.S. / Canada trade) in order to protect the U.S. from the terrorist threat posed by lax Canadian security.

The concern is with Canada's allegedly lax IMMIGRATION standards, not with security (which is sort of ironic given the amount of hassling of Americans by Canadian immigration - it's second to none).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3868 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
The concern is with Canada's allegedly lax IMMIGRATION standards, not with security (which is sort of ironic given the amount of hassling of Americans by Canadian immigration - it's second to none).

I live in Tijuana and fly from San Diego all the time. I am an American citizen and use my California Drivers´ license to board the plain. I do notice people using passports sometimes.

To comment on the above quote, I boarded a flight in Tijuana for Hermosillo and was not asked once to show ID before boarding the plane.


User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2556 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3814 times:

It gets even more complemented here. The Arizona legislature has passed legislation that would prevent any future legislation concerning implementation of the Read ID from being considered.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):

That depends where you are. Some places, not carrying ID is itself illegal.

Perhaps, but that is a secondary offense. Generally speaking, law enforcement cannot just stop one to ask for ID without probable cause that the person committed a primary offense.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
25 Cubsrule : Not in New Orleans, IIRC... the primary/secondary line is largely illusory, anyway.
26 Maverick623 : Oh wow, how little people know about identification laws. No, you are not. Per airline policy, not any government agency. Your passport would only nee
27 Cubsrule : How exactly does such a law violate any of those Amendments?
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