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If Americans Traveled Like Europeans - Changes?  
User currently offlineBNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 398 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

If Americans traveled as frequently as Europeans do for leisure, how different would airline routes/frequencies be? Would there be service from airports like BNA, IND, and RDU to airports like PUJ, SJU, and STT? Would there be nonstops from secondary East Coast airports to Europe? Would charter airlines exist in a much stronger capacity in the U.S. than they do now? Certainly, the frequency of flights to Florida and Hawaii would increase.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Actually, that's quite a silly question. If there would be demand, those routes might be established, of course. First of all, "Americans with travelling behavior like Europeans" would kill the huge US domestic market, as within Europe there are far less VFR flights. People in the USA tend to have family and friends to visit all around the country (which is a whole continent), while in Europe families are generally closer together.


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineTheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 1):
Actually, that's quite a silly question. If there would be demand, those routes might be established, of course. First of all, "Americans with travelling behavior like Europeans" would kill the huge US domestic market, as within Europe there are far less VFR flights. People in the USA tend to have family and friends to visit all around the country (which is a whole continent), while in Europe families are generally closer together.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I have family spread out all over this country and most of my trips are to visit them.


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2715 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting TheGMan (Reply 2):
I have family spread out all over this country and most of my trips are to visit them.

... whereas my trips are to escape from them, at least for a certain time of period.   
I this the differene between Americans and Europeans about which the thread opener was talking?  


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9386 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

This will be changing in Europe and the process is going on already. Brits and Germans and other nations have their grannies and gramps living in Spain or Portugal, young people no longer only work in their home countries but spread all over Europe. Some return, some will have families there. Some are transferred by their companies and live in half a dozen different countries before retirement. All this encourages VFR traffic on top of business and holiday travel.

And we have six weeks paid vacations, most of us at least. How would that change travel behaviour in the USA?



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User currently offlineBNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3442 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
whereas my trips are to escape from them, at least for a certain time of period.
I this the differene between Americans and Europeans about which the thread opener was talking?

The original hypothetical question assumes that Americans would have the same annual vacation time as Europeans. In addition, Americans would have the same level of interest in leisure travel as Europeans (assuming that there is a difference).


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

The main thing more vacation time would change in the United States would likely be more domestic travel to visit more of our extended, spread out familites.

The wife and I live in Dallas. Her children and grandchildren in Portland, OR and Fort Lauderdale, FL. My children and grandchildren are in Houston along with one brother, one still living parent in southwest Arkansas along with two brothers and two sisters, nieces and cousins in Virginia, Seattle and along the Gulf coast. A brother-in-law near Hartford, CT.

My family is pretty compact by today's standards in the US - but that is three long flights each year, and several shorter ones.


User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 1):
People in the USA tend to have family and friends to visit all around the country (which is a whole continent), while in Europe families are generally closer together.

The United States is not a continent. It spans from one end of a continent to the other East to West, perhaps that is what you meant, but it is not a continent unto itself like Australia.


User currently offlineToobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 7):
The United States is not a continent. It spans from one end of a continent to the other East to West, perhaps that is what you meant, but it is not a continent unto itself like Australia.

I think he was saying the size of the US is about the size of an average continent. I'm pretty sure anyone with a European school education knows that USA is not a continent..not sure about most younger Americans though lol


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3264 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 7):
Quoting Toobz (Reply 8):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent

I guess it depends of your perspective. How about a LARGE land mass?   



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineAirportPlan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting BNAOWB (Thread starter):
If Americans traveled as frequently as Europeans do for leisure, how different would airline routes/frequencies be?

Americans travel just a frequenly if not more frequently than Europeans do for leasure. Becuase americans have less vacation days the duration of their trips are less. Three-four days v.s two-three weeks. I know many people in the US who take mutiple extended weekend vacation throghout the year to visit friends and relatives or to Las Vegas, Miami or other lesure destinaitons. Many people I know look foward to the weekend special that are emailed by major US carriers every week. Southwest Airlnes Ding software is also used by many weekend leasue travelers in the US. Also because of a poor rail system flying and driving are the only real options in most of the the US.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
And we have six weeks paid vacations, most of us at least. How would that change travel behaviour in the USA?

I don't know that it would change much in terms of air travel.

From what I have seen from my European counterparts, thier 6 weeks of holiday is generally not spent flying hither and yon. Many of the more average Europeans seem to take the 1-2 weeks of holiday each year flying off to a resort much like their American counterparts, and spend their other 4 weeks of holiday either painting their houses/DIY projects.... or drinking next to their caravan in an RV park.


User currently offlinejetdudetim From United States of America, joined May 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

If I had six weeks vacation, I would travel much more. Right now most of my travel is to see family. (a paultry 2 weeks vaca doesn't make it!) Give me more time and I'll go see the rest of the world.

Vacation time was one of the hardest things to give up when I left the airline industry.

And if you ask me-it should be manditory for all Americans to travel outside our "cushy" country. It just might help them to get a grip!


User currently offlineoneworld77 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
And we have six weeks paid vacations,

Now that's the clincher.
If all the American's did the amount of Leisure Flying I do, it would be a much bigger market.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
From what I have seen from my European counterparts, thier 6 weeks of holiday is generally not spent flying hither and yon. Many of the more average Europeans seem to take the 1-2 weeks of holiday each year flying off to a resort much like their American counterparts, and spend their other 4 weeks of holiday either painting their houses/DIY projects.... or drinking next to their caravan in an RV park.

Don't know what industry you work in but my hols are spent flying hither and yon and my weekends spent flying to my parents, friends in another country.
A certain class do spend their 2 weeks in one resort. We don't do RV (what are they?) parks here.



Flown - EI;BA;RE;FR;WW;TW;TS;US;JP;JT;AT;QF;JQ;VB;NC;TR;D7;AA;IB;AF;SN;LX;SR;LH;AY;CX;CP;9K;9W;IX;AI;IC;EK;EY;GF;QR;BE;N
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Quoting Reply 13):
Don't know what industry you work in but my hols are spent flying hither and yon and my weekends spent flying to my parents, friends in another country.
A certain class do spend their 2 weeks in one resort. We don't do RV (what are they?) parks here.

You can call them campgrounds. There are quite a few around Europe. The ones in France and Switzerland seem to be filled in July with caravans with oval white NL stickers on the back.

I know they have caravans in the UK, so they must be using them for something.

Most of the people I have met in Europe cannot afford to spend 6 weeks away from home on holiday, unless they are camping/caravaning.

[Edited 2010-02-09 11:33:51]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
so they must be using them for something.

This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtztZz7A4xA
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i-op1aceUg
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohkAxbeMxVo

All of which are superb uses for such things. Going on a "vacation" where you pretend to be homeless and must empty your own crapper, not so much.   

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
drinking next to their caravan in an RV park.

We don't need to go on vacation to do that.
Signed,
Rural America   

Quoting luckyone (Reply 7):
It spans from one end of a continent to the other East to West,

And then some considering Hawaii.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
How would that change travel behaviour in the USA?

That is hard to say. I think that you would find some people hanging around home and some people vacationing a lot more. I think that America is far too diverse to come up with a simple answer to this.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

If Americans traveled like Europeans we would see a deterioration of service among US carriers. Americans are not willing to accept the standards of European carriers such as Ryanair. Being a very competitive market, we would see pitch go to 29 inches, no check-in facilities and per-pay toilets.

We would also see more flights from the US to places that have no acceptable tourist infrastructure like Paraguay or Ecuatorial Guinea, where we now see almost no Americans but every cheap room is occupied by someone from Europe.



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User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2866 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting BNAOWB (Thread starter):
If Americans traveled as frequently as Europeans do for leisure, how different would airline routes/frequencies be?

How often do Europeans travel for leisure? Given our roughly equal per capita incomes, I can't imagine it would be much more often (if at all) compared to Americans...

Quoting BNAOWB (Thread starter):
Would there be service from airports like BNA, IND, and RDU to airports like PUJ, SJU, and STT?

Not unless we had a truly p2p int'l LCC carrier a la Ryanair or EasyJet. Our only p2p LCC (WN) doesn't fly outside the continental U.S., and all of the other LCCs (as well as network carriers) fly to int'l destinations from their hubs and focus cities located at primary major airports. Keep in mind that its not BA or IB flying from BRS to IBZ. It's your p2p low cost carriers that are flying that sort of thing.

Quoting BNAOWB (Thread starter):
Would there be nonstops from secondary East Coast airports to Europe?

Not unless Ryanair decides to launch that transatlantic airline  
Quoting BNAOWB (Thread starter):
Would charter airlines exist in a much stronger capacity in the U.S. than they do now?

There is a lack of trust for charter airlines since they have historically failed relative to scheduled carriers. This may soon be the case in Europe, given that quite a few have been folding recently...

Quoting BNAOWB (Thread starter):
Certainly, the frequency of flights to Florida and Hawaii would increase.

Hawaii is VERY expensive - the average American family cannot afford to go there. Even if airfares were cheap, hotels, local food options, shopping, etc. are very pricey. Florida is more accommodating to people of all budgets, but it is extremely well-served already, even most of the smaller airports East of the Mississippi (except for those whose scheduled services are subsidized by federal money) already have flights MCO and/or FLL.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 1):
People in the USA tend to have family and friends to visit all around the country (which is a whole continent), while in Europe families are generally closer together.

Very true. In general, Americans are far less tied to their roots. Most Americans are living on their own by their early 20s (although many still rely on familial financial assistance at that point!), while many Europeans stay at home until they are quite a bit older.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
This will be changing in Europe and the process is going on already. Brits and Germans and other nations have their grannies and gramps living in Spain or Portugal, young people no longer only work in their home countries but spread all over Europe. Some return, some will have families there. Some are transferred by their companies and live in half a dozen different countries before retirement. All this encourages VFR traffic on top of business and holiday travel.

Yes, but it is still the norm for Europeans to attend college in their home country, and owing to linguistic and cultural differences, there are far more incentives to stay put than in the U.S. It will be a long time (if ever) to where the E.U. can be realistically compared to the U.S. Parisians go to the French Riviera. Athenians head to the Greek islands. The Swiss head to their lakes. It is much more common to stay in your own backyard than go someplace else.

Quoting jetdudetim (Reply 12):
And if you ask me-it should be manditory for all Americans to travel outside our "cushy" country. It just might help them to get a grip!

I don't know...when it comes to our inner city ghettos and rural poverty in places like the Deep South, I wouldn't say our country is quite as "cushy" as its made out to be, especially compared to other developed countries like Canada, Australia, and those in Western Europe. Keep in mind how shocked the world was to see how bad Eastern New Orleans was... My Canadian relatives simply don't understand how bad it can be in South Central LA, the Bronx, or the South Side of Chicago - even the worst parts of the biggest cities (Vancouver and Toronto) aren't nearly as bad as those areas.

Plus, we already have a fairly bad rep overseas as it is. By sending even more Americans to places like Europe, it could get even worse!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineblink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
If Americans traveled like Europeans we would see a deterioration of service among US carriers. Americans are not willing to accept the standards of European carriers such as Ryanair. Being a very competitive market, we would see pitch go to 29 inches, no check-in facilities and per-pay toilets.

Agreed. This summer Richard Quest of CNN wrote personal story on his disgust with how bad European LCCs have become--especially compared with their American counterparts. That said, I just had a wonderful experience on FlyNiki from VIE-ARN, even if the legroom was a tiny bit tight. I think there is much more variety within European LCCs than in the US. I can't put FlyNiki and Ryanair in the same class, though I haven't personally experienced Ryanair.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 17):
Yes, but it is still the norm for Europeans to attend college in their home country, and owing to linguistic and cultural differences, there are far more incentives to stay put than in the U.S. It will be a long time (if ever) to where the E.U. can be realistically compared to the U.S..

I'm no expert, but I have found that most Europeans stay closer to home for longer. This could be due to language, but it may just be a cultural thing in general. I intentionally went as far away from home as I could for college, but I've met a lot of Europeans who still live at home or attend school in their home town. That said, the whole entire university system in the US is different too.



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineviscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
If Americans traveled like Europeans we would see a deterioration of service among US carriers. Americans are not willing to accept the standards of European carriers such as Ryanair. Being a very competitive market, we would see pitch go to 29 inches, no check-in facilities and per-pay toilets.

The average European carrier has much better service than LCCs likek Ryanair and Easyjet, and often for just about the same fare. The major carriers frequenltly offer special fares even lower than the LCCs, and Y class service on most traditional European carriers is better than the major U.S. carriers, almost all of which (except CO) are now buy-on-board in Y class on domestic flights. With a few notable buy-on-board carriers like SAS and Iberia, you still usually get at least a free sandwich or other snack even on shorhaul flights in Europe, and soft drinks, coffee/tea, and even beer and wine is free on most carriers.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
or drinking next to their caravan in an RV park.

That's only for people from the Netherlands and the occasional Belgian (Flemish, I'd assume).

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
caravans with oval white NL stickers on the back.

Exactly!



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
From what I have seen from my European counterparts, thier 6 weeks of holiday is generally not spent flying hither and yon. Many of the more average Europeans seem to take the 1-2 weeks of holiday each year flying off to a resort much like their American counterparts, and spend their other 4 weeks of holiday either painting their houses/DIY projects.... or drinking next to their caravan in an RV park.

I'm not sure that's true, one of the major reasons for the growth in LCCs like U2 and FR has been short breaks, many British people got into a habit of jetting off to some obscure FR destination for the weekend, many have subsequently even bought second homes there (and are now regretting it!). If you look at their route maps, there's an awful lot of leisure desinations which run all year round.

Maybe it's the lack of annual vacation, maybe it's cultural, but I've never felt most Americans to be very adventurous travellers, go to the jungle or wilderness, or some former soviet satelite, and you'll find British, Germans, Dutch, Australians, Kiwis etc, far more than US citizens.



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
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