DutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7716 times:
Just a silly question about QF's domestic business class meal service, as I am one of those people who actually enjoys airline food (I find it always very festive and entertaining! ). I am usually prepared to pay extra for C / F IF... the airline bothers to serve proper food. I am always bitterly disappointed with US domestic flights in F. SAA also does this on SA domestic flights: some flights have great hot meals and on some you almost get nothing. I always feel: if I pay a lot, I expect a lot and it's not up to the airline to decide when my meal time is (esp. on ica-connections, when I physically still live in a different zone).
Anyway, soon I'll make a few domestic flights in Australia (probably something like SYD-MEL-PER, with a possible stop at Ayers Rock/Alice Springs and/or BNE) and I'm wondering what QF domestic c-class meals are like: do they also have this annoying meal-time-only food service and i.e. not on flights under 1 or 2 h flying? Or do they actually have good food on any flight, despite length / time of day?
I do realise many of you will find this a stupid and pointless topic... It's just one of those things I happen to like about aviation! Sorry! I am just curious if anybody know more about this. Thank you for your help.
pugsley From Australia, joined Jan 2010, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7644 times:
Well, Qantas always serve a meal in business class, but it does vary depending on the time of day, the length of the flight, or if the flight is a cityflier flight or not. With the exception of MEL-CBR and SYD-CBR, there is always a choice between a hot and a cold meal.
MEL-CBR and SYD-CBR there is no choice, it is a hot breakfast or cold salad/roll for the rest of the day, usually a really small serve but comes with a couple of sides like a piece of fruit or schocolate biscuits etc... Always tea and coffee, alcohol on request before lunch, and wine offered after lunch.
this is sectors such as MEL-SYD, SYD-BNE, ADL-MEL etc...
Always a choice of two options, one hot and one cold.
0500-0830 - Breakfast - Hot egg dish or cold cereal, with side of bakery - toast, fruit toast or crossiant , fruit/yoghurt, juice, water, tea/coffee, sparkling wine (full bar and soft drink on request)
0831-1159 - AM refreshment - Hot meal like a piece of quiche/tart or pancakes or cold fresh cut fruit with a side of bakery - sweet or savourie danish, fruit/yoghurt, juice, water, tea/coffee or sparkling wine (full bar and soft drink on request)
1200-1300 - Lunch - Hot meal like thai duck curry with rice or mongolian lamb (only one choice of hot meal) and one cold salad like tuna and three bean with balsamic dressing or a salmon salad with lemon dressing (only one choice of salad) with bakery - roll or sourdough bread, side salad/sweet, water, red wine, white wine and tea/coffee (full bar and soft drink on request)
1301-1759 - PM refreshment - Hot meal would be light, like a steak sandwich, the cold option would be a salad, But sometimes, the second option may be a soup, but this is rare, side of bakery - roll or sourdoung, side salad/sweet, water, white wine, red wine, tea/coffee (full bar and soft drink on request)
1800-2000 - Dinner -same a lunch plus the addition of a piece of chocolate, and occassionally the cold salad may be soup, but again, this is rare.
2101 - 0459 - Supper - Similar to Lunch, but usually a hot meal.
This is sectors such as BNE-CNS, ADL-SYD, MEL-BNE, ADL-ASP, PER-BME.
The only difference is between 1200-2000 a pre meal, bar service is operated with choice of drink from the bar delivered with a bag of almonds & cashews.
Long Sectors (non cityflier)
Sectors such as ADL-DRW, MEL-CNS, SYD-BME
This is the same as the service offered on medium sectors, however it is now divided into the following catergories
0500-0930 - Breakfast - A second service is offered 1 hour before landing, it is tea/coffee and a snack like a biscuite/piece of cake
0931-1400 - Lunch - A second service is offered after the main meal, and is an offering of ice cream
1401-2000 - Dinner - A second service is offered after the main meal, and is an offering of icecream
2001-0459 - Supper - The bar service is offered incorprated with the main meal delivery and a second service is offered pre landing and consists of a hot towl and juice.
Long Sectors (cityflier)
This is PER-BNE/MEL/SYD/ADL/CBR
The timings of the meals are as above for other long sectors, however the service offering is more subsantial, with the choice of three meals.
Breakfast - Post take off Juice, then choice of two hot breakfasts and cereal with all the sides tea and coffee included, etc... and then a pre landing second service of tea/coffee and refreshment item such as cookie or biscuit.
Lunch - Pre take off bar, Choice of two hot meals or a salad, the second service is an offering of ice cream or cheese and fruit plate, accompanied by dessert wine, australian tawny (port) or sessert wine, and finishing with a tea/coffe service accompanied with a piece of chocolate
Dinner - Same as Lunch
Supper - Choice of two hot meals and one salad, bar incorprated with main meal delivery, as is tea/coffe to maximies sleep time, second service is wake up hot towl and juice before landing.
Of course, there are a couple of anomilies, but let me know what wou decide and we should be able to work it out. Every flight starts with pre-take off offering of juice or water, and generally newspapers are available on demand, they are offered if their is enough for everyone, otherwise papers are on demand. Suite jackets are hung pre take off and returned 10min before the seat belt sign is switched on, and last drinks are offered at top of descent. And of course, if you want something, just ask, if it is on board the crew will always get it for you.
DutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7600 times:
Wauw... Thank you so much! This is a much more eloborate answer than I hoped to get. Yes, this def. helps. Appearently QF has a better (domestic) inflight service than most of it's EU / US counter parts.
Since you know so much about this subject, three further questions:
1. I checked Cityflyer on qantas.com.au, why is there this special sub-brand for some services? Should I see it as a premium brand? Isn't the QF-brand already a premium brand (over Jetstar)? Or should I see it differently? So if I have a choice on some sectors to book a Cityflyer-flight or a regular one, always book Cityflyer?
2. Would you say QF is the best airline for Australian domestic flights in-flight service wise? Jetstar and Virgin Blue being low cost airlines of course. Or is there another airline (on some sectors) which I overlook? I.e. Strategic (do they have sceduled flights apart from PER-DPS?).
3. Do you know if QF has a domestic airpass (c-class) for international travellers?
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6641 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7582 times:
QF even provide a decent meal for Y so I believe that their J meal should be reasonably good.
Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 2): I checked Cityflyer on qantas.com.au, why is there this special sub-brand for some services? Should I see it as a premium brand? Isn't the QF-brand already a premium brand (over Jetstar)? Or should I see it differently? So if I have a choice on some sectors to book a Cityflyer-flight or a regular one, always book Cityflyer?
It's just a way to brand their flights between major city pairs of SYD, MEL, ADL, PER, BNE, CBR, CNS etc. which caters for just about, if not all jet flights. It's still Qantas.
Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 2): Would you say QF is the best airline for Australian domestic flights in-flight service wise? Jetstar and Virgin Blue being low cost airlines of course. Or is there another airline (on some sectors) which I overlook? I.e. Strategic (do they have sceduled flights apart from PER-DPS?).
This is quite subjective. A lot of people don't like QF because they say FAs are old and favour the high FF members over anyone else. Those are the people who say DJ has better service. QF is the only one of the big 4 to give free food. If you're considering flying J anyway, QF's the way to go. Check out: Joyrides Down Under Part 3: East Coast Adventure (by NZ107 Feb 11 2010 in Trip Reports) and the sequels for my perspective on a few flights around Australia.
pugsley From Australia, joined Jan 2010, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7572 times:
Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 2): 1. I checked Cityflyer on qantas.com.au, why is there this special sub-brand for some services? Should I see it as a premium brand? Isn't the QF-brand already a premium brand (over Jetstar)? Or should I see it differently? So if I have a choice on some sectors to book a Cityflyer-flight or a regular one, always book Cityflyer?
As NZ107 alluded, cityflier is just a marketing brand for selected sectors, and these are
In regards to business class, it does not change the service, except for the sectors to perth which have an expanded offering in business. The main reason qantas have cityflier is to reward the business fliers who fly between the important australian business hubs, but who fly economy. City flier routes offer economy passengers complimentary newspapers on flights that leave between 0500-0830 on monday to fridays. Also on Monday to Friday, after 1600, y class passengers are offered complimentary beer and wine, again their are exceptions for perth, where y class pax are offered complimentary beer and wine on sectors from lunch onwards. On perth flights spirits can be purschaed in the y cabin for $6 (aussie) As for business class, unless you are traveling to perth, the service offering in business is the same as other non cityflier sectors.
Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 2): 2. Would you say QF is the best airline for Australian domestic flights in-flight service wise? Jetstar and Virgin Blue being low cost airlines of course. Or is there another airline (on some sectors) which I overlook? I.e. Strategic (do they have sceduled flights apart from PER-DPS?).
The way to answer this is, QF are the only major airline to offer complimentary food and drink on their flights. QF are also the only aussie airline with a domestic business cabin. DJ offer premium economy, which is an economy seat with the middle seat converted into a tray table, from rows 1-3 on their 737's and a standard seat from rows 1-3 on their E175/195, the DJ Premium economy comes with 32kg of checked luggage, free use of their live to air tv (737 only) and complimentary food and drink from their in flight menu. I have traveled tiger, jetstar, virginblue and QF. I love QF business for the food they offer, but the seats are the same as those on an american 738 or a british airways 767 if that gives you an idea. And the inflight entertainment is just in overhead screens, again you occasionally get international configured 767 or A330 that have the PTV's, but this is rare. QF do have two new A332 with new domestic business and economy seats featuring PTV's throughout, and these are used on PER-SYD/MEL sectors, but their is also one A332 domestic aircraft that has the standard non PTV seat that you would find on a 738 or 767, check out this site for more info on what the seats look like http://qflyer.icns.com.au/
I have always enjoyed my DJ flights, only ever in economy, its a standard 737 seat, but with a limited recline, but the pitch is better than on a QF 738. Its $10 to watch their live to air TV on long sectors, and a spirit and a water costs $10. If you get a cheap enough seat, and are prepared to pay or the TV, i like the DJ product that they offer in Y.
Others in these forums, do not agree with me, but i find the service and product offering of jetstar and tiger same same. Both have 180 seats on their A320, tiger cloth seats, jetstar leather seats. Both offer B.O.B. service, priced about the same. I've not experienced any big delays on Tiger, but do hear they happen, and jetstar is similar.
As NZ107 said, QF crews can be old, but generally, if you are nice to QF crew, say please and thank you and take an interest, they will give you what ever you ask for. Of course this can be hit and miss, but generally, if you are really nice to the old ducks, they will give the extra drink you asked for.
While i have never flown them, Skywest do fly MEL-KGI-PER on fri and sunday, once a week on an F100 which is unique. And Airnorth fly OOL-ISA-DRW with a E175 and offer a complimentary meal service, another unique service (air north is a qantas Frequent Flyer partner, while skywesr is a DJ Velocity FF partner). Strategic fly PER-DERBY three times a week, and are starting PER-DPS three times a week in July. As for alliance, I know nothing about them. An interesting note, REX, has just been named the number 2 airline in Australia (after DJ) by choice magazine readers because of its in flight service, but again i have not flown REX, so i can not comment on this.
Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 2): 3. Do you know if QF has a domestic airpass (c-class) for international travellers?
I cant answer this with 100% accuracy, but i have never heard of this at QF, it may be available through your travel agent, but it is not something that is advertised.
DutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7561 times:
Thank you both very much for all information. Very usefull.
Now you mention it, I have read several times before on a.net that people complain about the falling standards of QF and the 'old crews'. Personally I really don't mind 'old crews'! As long as people are friendly and courteous, what difference does age make? Besides, the secret lies in interaction: be nice and polite to a person and that person is nice and polite in return! Or is there more at hand? Are QF crews particularly known for their nastiness? Can't imagine really, it usually just depends on the person, not the airline...
Anyway, do you believe standards are generally falling at QF? They still seem to have a very decent product in comparison to EU/US carriers. I am Dutch, let's not even talk about the falling standards at KLM for example (or AF). Wow, did KL take a turn for the worse the last 10 - 15 years (cheap uncomfi seats (EU C is a joke really), small ptv's, very poor food in both C and Y, poor presentation in cabin, low c/a-pax ratio, increasingly bad ff-program: mileage earning and burning ratio is ridiculous now, etc. However, I will give them that their fleet is new, cabins are clean and they fly on-time). I guess it is inevitable in this day and age, but it really annoyes me. Is QF also going down that road? Or do they manage to keep their product consistently decent? Or is their product being killed by Virgin / Tiger / Jetstar? I'd hate to see another good in-flight product go down the drain...
Its typical of any airline, a few bad eggs spoil the reputation of the entire workforce. The proplem at Qantas, is that the cranky ones are those FA's who have been flying for 20plus years, and almost entirly work in the long haul department. The old ducks have been working for so long in the same job, they have no idea about what else they could do, and no other employment they choose will pay them the ridiculious amount of money they earn as long haul flight attendants, so they stay in the job, do as little as they can so they get the maximum break time during the flight as they possibly can, and QF cant fire them. Its a real shame for the young ones coming through the ranks who really want to do a good job.
Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 5): Anyway, do you believe standards are generally falling at QF?
In regards to food, not at all. The product has stayed the same for the last few years, in fact investment has been made in standardising the product across all flights, especially in terms of presentation, and in economy, the product is being changed and enhanced. On short flight, QF now have an onboard recycling progam in the Y cabin, its a great service, and the FA's really get to interact with the customers. And the J service has seen the introduction of soups to our short sectors, previously this was exclusivly used on long haul products only.
As for the hard product, its not that great, but that is because what the competition offers is not that great. Internationally, QF have finally sat up and listened to the passengers, and its now playing catch up with new flat business class seats, introducing Y+ finally, and developing a new Y seat with IFE that actually works. What is great, is that this product, is finally starting to be installed on domestic aircraft. QF have just had 2 (with a 3rd to come) A332's delivered with a new J and Y seat that features individual IFE with on demand entertainment , to match the content on the A380 for use on demestic flights, this along with 5 738's deliverd last year for services across the tasman that also have the new seats, and there are approximatly another 18 (i'm not sure of the exact number, but this seem's about right from memory) 738's to be delivered with PTV's throughout J and Y for use on domestic sectors.
Just last year, QF embarked on a program to re-train all 18000 employes who have an interaction with a customer to improve thier customer service skills. To achieve this, QF developed a new training centre in Sydney, and a new training program that all employees are being put through. It is QF's goal to become the Number 1, in the skytrax ratings, and this is their first step in getting the staff on side to help achieve the goal.
What will be interesting, is seeing what DJ offer over the next year. With former QF man, John Borghetti taking over DJ, and the recent announcement of a DJ/NZ tasman relationship, the product DJ offer is set to change. Rumour has it, that DJ are going to introduce a Dedicated Premium Economy to compete with QF Business, this would include a sectioned off cabim, with a new seat, and then the Y cabin will become Economy and Economy Lite. Its an interesting time in Aus Aviation at the moment.
DutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7363 times:
Thank you very much for all your information. Aus aviation is indeed very interesting! Can't wait to go and see it for myself.
I so wish some EU (and US) carriers were doing the same thing: shaping UP. All airlines here go down. They're practically trampling over eachother on the race down. I guess good thing QF has so much competition from the likes of EK, CX, SQ, MH, etc. That should guarantee at least a decent service level!