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What Makes LH Successful?  
User currently offlineHAM1981 From Germany, joined May 2010, 8 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

I am asking my self this question and want to know what your opinion is!

What makes LH success? Why can they manage to have so many subsidiary and others don´t ?

Is it only good Management ?

I read here very often ... LH does´nt have PTW and they are not good in this and that!

What do you think ?


flown on: B727,B737,B757,A319,A320,A321,A300
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3635 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9656 times:

Quoting HAM1981 (Thread starter):
LH does´nt have PTW and they are not good in this and that!

Quick question, what is PTW?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

I would say diversification is a good bit of it.

LHTecknik is a dominant figure in its industry, LH Cargo does pretty great too. I think they're a relatively conservative airline, but they're not as stagnant as say AA, and occasionally try new things out. They keep what works, do the best they can at it. Which is often also the best the industry can to boot.


User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9616 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Quick question, what is PTW?

typo

he meant PTV

very obvious...


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9601 times:

LH has a very strong exporting economy that supports business pax (and indeed leisure) as well as cargo to pretty much anywhere in the world. Add to that their extensive alliance and feeding flights from European partners and the fact that they use two reasonably sized and well-runned hub airports and you've got most of your answer. The rest of it is probably down to good industrial relations and it's huge size (=economies of scale).

However, I do think that further consolidation in Europe and especially Asia is going to provide a new breed of airlines that will no doubt make LH's life tough.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9356 times:
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Quoting Talaier (Reply 4):
LH has a very strong exporting economy that supports business pax (and indeed leisure) as well as cargo to pretty much anywhere in the world. Add to that their extensive alliance and feeding flights from European partners and the fact that they use two reasonably sized and well-runned hub airports and you've got most of your answer. The rest of it is probably down to good industrial relations and it's huge size (=economies of scale).

I would complement saying LH is the flag carrier of a country that is the King of Foreign Trade. With all types of industries and services, Germany also developed a very strong "brand" and recognition for quality that drives up demand for their products and services. Also, they have been very successful in installing subsidiaries around the world, which provide a strong business and VFR component.

LH is the airline that take the most advantage from it, was more focused in keep their long haul product than to fight for domestic and regional operations (in my view), and keep updating it's product while continues to have crews that make the difference.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8646 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 2):
I think they're a relatively conservative airline,

Where I think LH can be trusted as a brand is that they are very consistent. To me they are not THE best in terms of service for my money that would be SQ. But LH are good and consistent and way ahead of any European competition.


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8625 times:

And they take global alliances seriously. Very seriously, much more seriously than some of its competitors like BA who seems only interested in cornering the Anglo-sphere market. For this reason, therefore, you find LH working hard to build a presence in the growth markets of the world, flying to far more destinations in Asia than any other European carrier baring a combined AF/KL, who is only slightly ahead in some markets, and forming film partnerships with other carriers to connect to its global network.


It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8742 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8512 times:

LH is, meanwhile, a European carrier however with a base in an economically strong country. But that's not even half the rent.

It's the people actually, they can select from the best on the market as they have a good number of applicants for each job opening. They breed their own middle management since decades "Luftverkehrskaufmann" is a traineeship where young people are trained in various jobs inside the company, in Germany and oversaes. They move around various bases in that time. . That takes three years for the degree and meanwhile studies at the European Business School in Wiesbaden are included in that course. These people form the backbone of the company. Same as the pilots who are all trained inside the company. For top management careers, they can select from the most brilliant University graduates.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7970 times:

It’s really not that complicated to be successful if you really work hard and put the market demand at the core of your operational schedule as opposed to do very little and just speculate yields on markets with little or no competition.

Lufthansa managed to become the airline that offers multiple options, at reasonable prices as opposed to “this is where, when and how we fly and expect you to bid an arm and leg for one of our seats”.

That’s why Lufthansa is reasonably perceived as a consistent airline when compared with those who alter their routes and destinations every other month in pursuit of seasonal higher yields.


User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 743 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7866 times:

LH is constant in quality since decades. Maybe some other airlines are punctually better in determined categories, but when you fly LH, no matter from where to where (for example in my case often Brazil-Asia), you simply know what to expect. Here, we are not talking about elegance or frills. We are talking about quality at the continuous "service line" starting with booking and ending with baggage handling at destination.

Other pluspoint worked out well by them is the miles + more benefits for frequent travelers. It´s simply a very good program, and attracts frequent travelers due to the frills it offers.

Naturally safety is a leading point as well: LH is among the safest airlines in the industry.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):

Quick question, what is PTW?

PTV. W = V in German. V = Fow. No W sound in the language.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 2):
I would say diversification is a good bit of it.

Not to mention vertical integration.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 3):

very obvious...

To a German or German speaker who understands the whole W/V thing. A lot of Germans actually make that mistake, mistaking sound for form.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7705 times:

LH=Germany

Germany=Daimler (Mercedes), Porsche, BMW, Volkswagen (+Audi), Siemens, Bosch, Adidas, Bayer, T-Mobile, Miele plus numerous beer brands  

Germany has a reputation the uphold. They work very very hard, these folks. Good for them.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

Quoting HAM1981 (Thread starter):
What makes LH success?



... Just reliability... dependability...

Have flown them extensively... never let down !!!

Best regards



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 820 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7106 times:

They're well run in general. I do think part of their success is that their hub airports have had significant investments made into them. Frankfurt and Munich airports are better airports to operate out of than say Heathrow or CDG. They operate a mixed Airbus/Boeing fleet which is interesting as well but despite the larger number of aircraft types they seem to do quite well. It is interesting in my mind that they are not based out of Berlin. I do think the German government does take a small piece of the credit for their success. They have't done anything to throw LH under the bus so to speak and they certainly take part in the airport planning. LH has also integrated acquired airlines fairly well. Swiss for example.

User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6737 times:

The same reason the Deutschlanders tonk ass at every World Cup despite having seemingly average players.

German efficiency of course.

[Edited 2010-05-25 14:00:31]

User currently offlinehaddock0815 From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 15):
The same reason the Deutschlanders tonk ass at every World Cup despite having seemingly average players.

German efficiency of course.

So you better hope that BA will never ever have a penalty shoot- out!
  


User currently offlinemacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1004 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

not to forget a solid and sustained management which is grown inhouse. no ramazottis from outside who invent flying new each day.


I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

The funny thing is they have a staggering amount of quads both in service and on order. Which highlights, contrary to what many on here would have you believe, how much more to running a successful airline there is than the amount of fuel your aircraft burns.

User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5051 times:
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LH has long had a good solid business plan, a mangement team that understands that plan, employees that support that plan, and pax that love to fly them, including me. And they have been doing this for a number of years.

They have not jumped on the bandwagons that other carriers have and over-expanded in good times and then paid the price in slow times.

In short, good management for a very long time.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2658 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 18):
The funny thing is they have a staggering amount of quads both in service and on order. Which highlights, contrary to what many on here would have you believe, how much more to running a successful airline there is than the amount of fuel your aircraft burns.

Indeed. I run a thread about this a while ago. Right now LH has 81 quads, more than anybody else: 26 343s, 24 346s, 30 744s, 1 388, plus 14 388s and 20 748s on order. The only wide-body twins they operate are 15 333s, with none on order.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

A captive large loyal home market. The rest is extra.

User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

For quite a while, the company was/is run by engineers:

Mayrhuber (03-now): mechanical engineering
Weber (91-03): aerospace engineering
Ruhnau (83-91): electrical engineering

I don't know whether this was important for their alleged success, but I think it is an interesting fact.


User currently offlineNicoeddf From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1097 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 21):
A captive large loyal home market. The rest is extra.

It certainly isn't as easy as that. But it contributes.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8742 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 22):
Ruhnau (83-91): electrical engineering

Ruhnau should be re-named Ruinau, because he almost crashed LH. Weber turned the company around to where it is today, from a state owned enterprise to 100% market flotation.



Quoting keesje (Reply 21):
A captive large loyal home market. The rest is extra.

Not by far. The LH market share has been hovering around 30-35% in most years. KL AF SK BA have been pilfering most markets in Germany for decades. Sure, LH does the same in other European markets. LH has managed to become a European airline even before the single market was realised. OTH, a strong competeitor on the home market has emerged with AB, while the European competetors have rather lost market shares, may be not that mch to LH but to the Gulf carriers.



I'm not fishing for compliments
25 Post contains images keesje : The majority of passengers are german, because of the dominant position in the big German market. They are the one they pay most because of the many
26 Hywel : I once read that only 30% of the LH group's profit comes from passenger flights. The other 70% comes from LSG Skychefs, LH cargo, LH Technik (which se
27 PanHAM : @ keesje - LH has a strong domestic route network and you may be right when most passengers on those flights are German or people living in germany. T
28 aerokiwi : I think this sums it up nicely. Germany's corporate accounts are a very rich vein for the airline to tap. Service-wise, they're extremely ordinary, t
29 UALWN : This has always been my experience too. A couple of years ago I flew JNB-MUC-BCN. At MUC I (stupid me) was forced to check in two bottles of wine I h
30 UALWN : Presumably BA can tap on the massive London corporate account market, yet they're losing money left and right. LH must be doing something right that
31 RJ111 : Considering both A and B have planes that are more and less efficient, both A and B have quads in the past and in production, and LH have a lot of bo
32 PanHAM : LOL, regardless if person or company, one becomes rich from keeping it, never from spending it. I guess you never sold goods or services in Germany.
33 charliecossie : LH lost 300 million Euros in the first quarter of this year! BA lost just over half that amount. So, just what are LH doing better than BA?
34 Shany : In my opinion: They offer a good product for business travellers and they have quite a lot of them. The main advantage is not so much the cabin interi
35 UALWN : The latest full-year results are as follows: the LH group had a EUR 130 million profit, while BA lost GBP 531 million. In the previous year the diffe
36 PanHAM : You are comparing apples with peaches. Even if you pro-rate this to the turn-over in the same period (LH's is more than BAs) this would say nothing a
37 skyliner747 : PTW could have meant anything. May have been a financial term, etc. there are far more important factors in running a successful corporation than tel
38 antonovman : Don't you mean unnecessary ?
39 LHPII : Some things have already been said but I would like to summarize it: 1. large captive market 2. based in one of the largest export economies 3. ideal
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