Sponsor Message:
Travel Polls & Prefs Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Shortest / Tightest Base To Final  
User currently offlineVHFlying From Australia, joined Jul 2010, 6 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

I have been an avid reader for years and really enjoy all of your wide ranging topics. I would love to hear what your thoughts are on the following:

1. I believe the pilots true strength is during the critical phase of landing and especially on a short final approach. The mark of a true professional is witnessing and feeling the banking of the aircraft to line up for final and see minimal adjustments to lining up for the runway or pitch changes during this phase. I would love to hear some stories on some experiences.

2. What is the shortest final in commercial aviation?

I have been very fortunate to have travelled the world and land in 50+ airports. The greatest turn to final will always be Kai Tak but I have also experienced unusual (to the standard patterns) base to final approaches at:

Sydney: flew 767 over San Souci and over Botany Bay and hard left into 34L (instead of flying over Kurnell Island) less than 2nm final

Melbourne: flew 330 south of the airport and hard right into 34 about 2nm final

Zurich: flew but also witnessed (at the fantastic sausage stand at the 14 / 16) planes lining up for 14 and then without notice a short turn of the yoke and lining up for 16 (not sure a 14 to 16 could be considered a base to final) but still interesting as the line up to final would be less than 2nm

Love to hear suggestions!

The next post could be the longest final e.g. Las Vegas would it not?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15830 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

Quoting VHFlying (Thread starter):
2. What is the shortest final in commercial aviation?

I've seen videos of Twin Otters at SXM that basically lined up with the runway when they are directly over it.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineN757ST From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

Probably DCA Mount Vernon Visual RWY 1 Circle 33

User currently offlineycp81 From Singapore, joined Jun 2006, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting VHFlying (Thread starter):
Melbourne: flew 330 south of the airport and hard right into 34 about 2nm final

Qantas/virgin blue planes normally does that if the runway in use is 34 (have experienced that on a B744). However other carriers appear to take the safer straight in approach.



My past and future travels - http://www.ba97.com/ba97/calendar/report.asp?handle=ycp81
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Probably not what you are looking for but for a lot of people on here, the first time they nailed their first power-off 180 during their CPL training will certainly be one to remember... Downwind abeam the numbers, power to idle, gear down, basically turning direct to the numbers, such a blast

User currently offlineswiftski From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Quoting VHFlying (Thread starter):
Melbourne: flew 330 south of the airport and hard right into 34 about 2nm final

Sounds like the BADGR FOUR VICTOR arrival to me. Track overhead SHEED [S37 43.8 E144 54.9], overhead Essendon, then visual intercept of final for RWY34 [84deg right turn from 256 to 340]

[Edited 2010-07-13 21:15:47]

User currently offlineVHFlying From Australia, joined Jul 2010, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 4):

When I was doing my ppl and instrument training I loved the 'go for the numbers and hang a left for touch down'. for emergency training.

For large commercial jets, I love that ability to be flying at 180kts and flipping the wings to 30degrees and bring her level with a 'minute' to spare before touch down. Any ideas for 'heavies' that have a 2nm final out there as standard or used often?


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

While not a published approach, Colgan pilots have never had any reservation about lining up over our approach lights.... so thats what... 1/4 mile final?

Quoting VHFlying (Thread starter):
The next post could be the longest final e.g. Las Vegas would it not?

That could be anywhere depending on where the flights coming from. When were using runway 5, the ATL flights are on "final" something like 60 miles. I dont think you could really calculate a longest final because even if a flight is lined up for the last 100 miles of flight, that's not technically "final approach".


User currently offlineVHFlying From Australia, joined Jul 2010, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 7):

I do love watching those long finals with 7+ aircraft lined up. LHR and LAS are great examples of that. I know technically the 50+nm 'finals' are not finals but when is a final a final then?

Any video of thos short finals from Colgan pilots . . . no room for error unless the runway is 8000'


User currently offlineB595 From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

The 01R approach at SFO is pretty tight for the heavy jets.

Has 1000 ft hills less than ~2 nm from the threshold.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

Quoting VHFlying (Reply 8):
Any video of thos short finals from Colgan pilots . . . no room for error unless the runway is 8000'

6300 between two hills with cliffs on each end (yes, they really did that on purpose). They used to do the same on the 4700 ft runway too before it was closed. Wish I had taken videos back when it was still open...



Quoting VHFlying (Reply 8):
I know technically the 50+nm 'finals' are not finals but when is a final a final then?

When the aircraft is fully configured for landing and lined up with the runway?


User currently offlineericaasen From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

I was on a 60 nm final for and cleared to land on rwy 17R at GFK on a flight from YWG in a C172 once. It was about 2 AM and the table top flatness of the terrain around GFK we could spot the airport and runway from that far out, we were at 8,000, reported runway in sight and were cleared to land. So we just trimmed a little nose down and started and nice slow decent for the next 45 min to landing.

User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

I can add some that i have done and i consider very tight as well....

Toncontin landing......... just scary and difficult, very short visual circuits, hills, updrafts, short runways, high elevation......

Zurich..... i don't remember exactly the runways but I think it was ILS to runway 14 then close to the minimums turn right to runway 16, please correct me if I´m wrong....

And check this video i did in Varadero during a training session.....hehehehe....... with an ATR72.... i think is difficult to do a shorter visual circuit.....actually the instructor did shorter but I didn´t upload that video, i will do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHvP237V1hQ


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

TGU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6R5ns6e40s

Quoting VHFlying (Thread starter):
1. I believe the pilots true strength is during the critical phase of landing and especially on a short final approach. The mark of a true professional is witnessing and feeling the banking of the aircraft to line up for final and see minimal adjustments to lining up for the runway or pitch changes during this phase. I would love to hear some stories on some experiences.

That's actually one of the things that is hard on FSX and not so much in real life. The reason it's hard in FSX is because your viewing angle is fixed forward and you can't realy look at the runway properly as you turn.

[Edited 2010-07-14 03:49:43]

User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

The Divi Divi islanders at Curacao fly their base leg straight towards the end of the first quarter of the landing runway before turning to final and vacating in front of the terminal (i believe it is one of the longest runways in the caribbean)

User currently offlineVHFlying From Australia, joined Jul 2010, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Thanks for some of the vid's. Migair54 thanks for the training video. Now that's what I love seeing.

I still would like to hear about some more international airports that have short finals. This is as I said one of the best things to watch . . .


User currently offlineHNLPointShoot From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

As far as I know, aircraft landing on 26L at HNL aren't lined up until less than 2 nm before touchdown since they're typically not allowed to overfly urban Honolulu, which means staying off shore of the island. (I don't know if heavy aircraft are allowed to land on 26R at all.) Night landings on the 8s usually means having to fly due north directly towards the entrance to Pearl Harbor before making a sharp right turn to line up with the runway; this is to avoid overflying residential areas in Kapolei and Ewa Beach, although aircraft are allowed to fly over those areas during the day (and are thus able to be lined up over 7 nm away from the runway.)

User currently offlineAntonovA330 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2007, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

I'm not sure if this can be considered as base-to-final, but without a doubt mindblowing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boBYSV2n2tk



Good day to you sir! Please turn left, your seat is in the first row.
User currently offlineHotelDJRomeo From Canada, joined Dec 2009, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting VHFlying (Reply 8):
but when is a final a final then?

Once you intercept/flyby the FAWP - final approach waypoint. Though of course as people have mentioned it is very common for aircraft to be lined up with the FAWP many miles before they pass it (that's how you end with with 10 aircraft lined up 50 miles back, all on "final"). FAWPs are often between 4-8nm from the runway.

In terms of a fun final, I Can't believe no one has mentioned Paro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlKApjc9T2U



Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

The Cape Air flights into BOS coming from the north make a pretty sharp turn into final on 4L/R. It's about two miles from the piano keys.

User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 7):

Quoting VHFlying (Thread starter):
The next post could be the longest final e.g. Las Vegas would it not?

That could be anywhere depending on where the flights coming from. When were using runway 5, the ATL flights are on "final" something like 60 miles. I dont think you could really calculate a longest final because even if a flight is lined up for the last 100 miles of flight, that's not technically "final approach".

When ORD is using the Janesville 5 arrival, eastbound aircraft are only about 30 degrees off of final approach course after turning over Janesville, which is about 64 nm (approx. 74 miles) from RWY 31.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently onlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 19):
The Cape Air flights into BOS coming from the north make a pretty sharp turn into final on 4L/R. It's about two miles from the piano keys.

Thats a cool one, ILS 15R circle to 4L

DCA can be fun doing the Mount Vernon to 1 circle to 33 if the pilots want to keep it in tight over the water the whole time.

While not necessarily a tight final, we used to fly the RJ to some small airports in Maine where we would start at FL270 and chop the power to idle all the way to landing, that took some serious luck and planning when deciding to configure flaps/gear.

There used to be some videos on Youtube of AE ATRs doing some cool approaches into the Caribbean islands. Dominica comes to mind.

[Edited 2010-07-14 10:44:14]


These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 795 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

It's been mentioned here before, but Tegucigalpa, Honduras (TGU) has a pretty interesting/frightening approach that involves a tight turn to a short final. Here's a video for those who haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAxAso8xSo0

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently onlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

While not a commercial airport, I like watching the approach into PWK when they are landing on Rwy 34. They basically are on an ILS to Rwy 16 and when the airport is in sight, they cancel their IFR and circle to land on Rwy 34. And due to the proximity of ORD airspace, there are some tight turns to get onto finals for Rwy 34. I always love seeing the Gulfstreams and Challengers make that banking turn. Also the departures from Rwy 16 are impressive, after take off they need to bank pretty tight to avoid ORD space, PWK is a favorite after work hang out for me, love it that they have a parking lot and a speaker setup to hear tower and the aircraft communications.


An American expat from the ORD area living and working in Australia
User currently offlineJoePatroni From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Quoting Logos (Reply 22):
It's been mentioned here before, but Tegucigalpa, Honduras (TGU) has a pretty interesting/frightening approach that involves a tight turn to a short final.

This one blew my mind when I saw it! WOW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJoXMcehrYo&feature=related



Oh Stewardess, I speak Jive.
25 Post contains links Viscount724 : Castlegar (YCG) in southern British Columbia, about 250 miles east of YVR (by road it's about 50% further) and about 20 miles north of the US border,
26 VHFlying : From memory I think Queenstown, New Zealand also has a great short final after some manuevering around the mountains. I've done it two or three times
27 andyinpit : The Harbor Visual 29 into PWM was always a fun one to watch. Whenever a pilot asked how to do it, we simply said "fly into the harbor, once you fly th
28 Post contains images GrinddalCPH : I have had a few myself 3 come to my mind as being awesome or speciel 1: Ofcourse, LCY always offer short tight finals I had one that was really speci
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Best Time To Book Cheap Flights On BA posted Sun Jul 11 2010 06:32:16 by bochora
Cheapest Fare From NYC To London? posted Sat Jul 10 2010 16:30:03 by SQ_EK_freak
Cheap Places To Stay In Maui? posted Sat Jul 10 2010 11:31:34 by flyboy80
Going From AS To DL At PDX Vs. SEA posted Thu Jul 8 2010 07:03:20 by SiouxATC
Top 10 Shortest Scheduled Commercial Flights posted Thu Jul 8 2010 00:45:09 by spiplane
Joyride Down To KUL (LCCT) - What To Do? posted Thu Jul 8 2010 00:26:13 by initious
Oneworld From Maine To Hong Kong? posted Wed Jul 7 2010 08:55:06 by Elite
Checking Bags Thru To A Final Destination. posted Wed Jul 7 2010 04:30:24 by magpie75
Upgrading To First On DL (how To Do It?) posted Tue Jul 6 2010 22:05:01 by rj777
Shortest Delta Flight With A Free Y Class Meal posted Mon Jul 5 2010 07:02:49 by HOONS90