GlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 601 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 9719 times:
As has been discussed on this forum, airlines tend to use flight 1 as their prestige / signature route (LO 1 WAW-ORD, UA 1 ORD-HNL), etc.
Sure LO 1 is a huge route and links the two biggest O&D markets for international traffic (between Poland and the US).
But what routes are still being flied simply for prestige? xxx-JFK, xxx-LHR? This is not to make a point between public and state run companies. But what routes are airlines willing to lose money on just to fly them?
cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 7703 posts, RR: 55 Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 9590 times:
BA to Bermuda. Not sure if HM Treasury make up the shortfall or BA do it for the love, but it doesn't make money. Incidentally it is virtually the only route at BA where there is no competition.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7175 posts, RR: 45 Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 9502 times:
AM uses 0001 for MEX-MAD. MX used 0001 for MEX-JFK.
As to which routes Mexican carriers fly solely based on prestige, I would focus only on AM now, as MX is pretty much done (as we knew it). I dunno whether AM's MEX-CDG is profitable. They offer daily service on 767ERs (mix of -200s and -300s) with AF's codeshare. One of the a.net recurring myths is that SkyTeam and particularly AF have constantly pressured AM to upgrade MEX-CDG to 77E. I dunno if it is true. Perhaps they don't do it because they would have trouble filling a 77E. Anyway, whereas MAD makes AM a lot of money, I don't know if the same can be said of CDG. If any, this would be AM's prestige route.
I also don't know what the deal is with SCL. AM also flies to SCL with a mix of 762ERs and 763ERs, but they fly less than daily. Now, they lost the LA codeshare, and that will make it even harder for AM. Many people insist that AM loses money at SCL but I guess that if the passenger service is not making them a lot of money, perhaps the cargo business is... both Mexico and Chile are major exports-oriented economies.
Interestingly, neither MEX-NRT nor MEX-PVG is flown solely on prestige grounds. NRT is a profitable station for AM and by the look of it, PVG ain't doin' bad.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8266 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 8 hours ago) and read 9003 times:
AA1 JFK-LAX
AA2 LAX-JFK
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 3): I also don't know what the deal is with SCL. AM also flies to SCL with a mix of 762ERs and 763ERs, but they fly less than daily. Now, they lost the LA codeshare, and that will make it even harder for AM. Many people insist that AM loses money at SCL but I guess that if the passenger service is not making them a lot of money, perhaps the cargo business is... both Mexico and Chile are major exports-oriented economies.
AM10/AM11 operates MEX-SCL-MEX 4x weekly (B763). AM now dedicates one of its B763s solely for the MEX-SCL-MEX route. AM operates both AM10/AM11 as red-eyes in order to increase LFs on the route.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7175 posts, RR: 45 Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 8911 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 15): AM10/AM11 operates MEX-SCL-MEX 4x weekly (B763). AM now dedicates one of its B763s solely for the MEX-SCL-MEX route. AM operates both AM10/AM11 as red-eyes in order to increase LFs on the route.
Thanks for the info! The 762s are more useful to BCN and CDG because of range issues, so I guess it makes sense. Hope AM will be able to turn a profit with the new schedules.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8266 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 8854 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16): Thanks for the info! The 762s are more useful to BCN and CDG because of range issues, so I guess it makes sense. Hope AM will be able to turn a profit with the new schedules.
AM will soon increase capacity on the daily MEX-BOG-MEX route by deploying the B738 on the route. AM will most likely add MEX-CCS-MEX to its network soon.
YXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 426 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 8772 times:
Surprised no one's mentioned it yet: BA's flight 1/2/3/4 LCY-SNN-JFK-LCY. Definitely a flagship route, even has a whole subfleet dedicated to it. Not sure if it's profitable yet, although popular opinion on the thread about it suggests that it is.
Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
SSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 8642 times:
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 2): BA to Bermuda. Not sure if HM Treasury make up the shortfall or BA do it for the love, but it doesn't make money. Incidentally it is virtually the only route at BA where there is no competition.
Interesting that it wouldn't make money with no competition.
One source: "Bermuda is the oldest and most populous remaining British overseas territory... Bermuda has an affluent economy, with finance as its largest sector followed by tourism, giving it the world's highest GDP per capita in 2005. It has a subtropical climate.. Bermuda's per capita income is approximately 50% higher than that of the United States."
You'd think there would be healthy travel between the two Islands, in all classes... I have difficulty BA would keep the route if it was loss making, without government support for it, in this cut-throat airline climate. Can ANY airline (that isn't a government supported institution from some 3rd World country) afford a PRESTIGE route these days that is not profitable?
I come in peace
25 SR4ever: It would be interesting to have a detailed breakdown of short/medium-haul routes operated by Legacies in Europe...[Edited 2010-08-27 01:54:56]
26 je89_w: Quite funny to think that while flight 1/flight 2 operate the prestige routes for most airlines, China Airlines no longer has CI1/CI2 as of March 2010
27 kiwiandrew: It may not be the most prestigious "Flight 1" in the world , but it must surely be the longest . I always thought that it was a shame that NZ did not
28 tharanga: I think the prototypical money losing prestige route was Bangladesh BG to JFK, from DAC via various places. On 20 year old DC-10s. What the route numb
29 Scandinavian: SK001 LLA-ARN, maybe not the worst most prestigious "number 1".
31 airbazar: etc, etc, etc Did you guys read the OP question? Are you seriously suggesting that all the routes above lose money?
32 QatarA340: No he is asking what routes if any are loosing money and cannot be dropped for the sake of prestiege?
33 AirNiugini: Air Niugini, PX1 Port Moresby to Sydney PX2 Sydney to Port Moresby Also, does anyone know how long QF1 SYD - BKK - LHR has operated as QF1? I'd be int
34 FlySSC: Concorde AF 001 was JFK-CDG. CDG-JFK was Concorde AF 002.
35 tharanga: Yeah, typical a-net. I think we're looking for unprofitable prestige routes, not just a list of everybody's flight 001. I wonder about Saudi's flight
36 Tobias2702: "Prestige over money" is an attitude that can be found quite often with state-owned airlines. The domestic network of Conviasa comes to mind. Also, I
37 EricR: I think DL's LAX-SYD is partially a prestige route. From a marketing standpoint, they can say they fly to all 6 habitable continents. I highly doubt
38 GoMEA: MEA 211 BEY-PAR MEA 212 PAR-CDG The route was flown in 707s starting the 60's, 747s in the 70's, then A310 & A330. The second daily flight used A3
39 747fan: Don't recall the flight #'s but CSA Czech (PRG) & Malev Hungarian (BUD) both served JFK for years & both pulled out within the last year or 2
40 EL-AL: LY001 is the night flight from Tel Aviv to NYC-JFK, which makes money - it has more demand then the morning flight (LY007). Flight operates with B744
42 skoker: B6's flight 1 is BUF-JFK-FLL, while BUF-JFK isn't quite a signature route, it was one of B6's first.
43 timberwolf24: At one time it was NW1/2 BOS-ORD-NRT-MNL-NRT-ORD-BOS. There was an COG in Chicago.
44 kiwiandrew: Did you read his entire post ? There are two parts to his post , in the first part he talks about the use of flight numbers 1/2 for prestige flights
45 airbazar: The first part was not a question. I don't see a question mark. It's ok to admit that you mis-read someone's post. There's no shame in it
46 Aeroflot777: That would be so amazing. Great routing! You are right about it being long though! Just flew AKL-LAX on NZ1 earlier this weeks. I couldn't imagine bo
47 kiwiandrew: I did not misread the OPs post , and I never said that the first part was a question , I said that it was part of his post and that I was responding
48 KingAir200: NW1 was LAX-NRT-MNL, NW2 was MNL-NRT-LAX.[Edited 2010-08-27 13:51:14]
49 bobnwa: I really doubt that DL is making one dollar in incremental revenue because someone thinks LAX-SYD is a prestige route. Do you really imagine that Del
50 EricR: I do not think it adds incremental revenue because someone thinks it is a prestige route - however - It adds some value from a marketing perspective.
51 bobnwa: I believe if I remember correctly from my sales and marketing days that saying we fly to 6 continents is a feature and a not a benefit. I negotiated
52 EricR: To say that a company with large international flight requirements would laugh at you because you told them that DL flew to 6 continents and AA only
53 bobnwa: I guess you missed my point that flying to 6 continents is a feature not a benefit. The benefit comes only if the company wants to fly to 6 continent
54 EricR: Benefit / feature is a matter of symantics. If you want to call it a feature instead of a benefit, then so be it. However, if that was your point, th
55 Viscount724: Yes, AC1 YYZ-NRT and quite a few other AC transpacific flight numbers were inherited from CP. And I highly doubt that AC considers YYZ-NRT their most
56 FlySSC: Top 3. Most AF profitable routes are CDG-LAD, CDG-LBV, CDG-BEY Could be possible ... when BEY will be A380 ready. Next winter, AF will keep the new A
57 as739x: Yeah, so? And why not post them for fun?
58 SSTsomeday: I think that route is more political than profitable. So all the Saudi dignitaries/Royalty etc. don't have to change planes, as well as all the Ameri
59 AirNZ: Out of curiosity, how do you 'know' it doesn't.......because I happen to know the opposite? Of course they can! Equally, you are very much mistaken/m
61 SSTsomeday: Good point. There is so much defense of EK in these pages saying they do not have any unseen advantages such as cheaper fuel in Dubai, cheaper landin
62 david_itl: So their declared profits signed off by PwC are a complete smokescreeen?
63 FlySSC: "Airlines" like Emirates or Etihad are not here to make profit ... They are just a political instrument to promote the U.A.E and prepare them for the
64 ha763: Are you asking about CI's use of flight number 1/2 or the TPE-HNL non-stop flight? The TPE-HNL non-stop flight has changed to CI2002/2001.
65 uaeflyer: The joke of the year i would say not the month Emirates is the jewel of the crown in Dubai's income today, they are paying dividend as any other owne
66 alphaomega: Saudi's flights to IAD are all flight numbers in the 30's (SV34, SV36, etc) and they do very well on the route but RUH/JED-JFK may be more along the
67 SSTsomeday: What is the PwC, please? I'm no expert on Dubai nor am I an expert on money and investment, but EK's books are not open; they cannot be fully audited
68 david_itl: PriceWaterhouseCoopers. Are you suggesting they are corrupt and can bought to declare whatever they want? What oil wealth does EK have access to? They
69 Viscount724: What's your source for that? I've never seen much news on that route. And I would find it hard to believe that a once-weekly operation on such a long
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