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UA/CO+LH $50 2nd Checked Bag On US-India Flights  
User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9297 times:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6831963.cms

The report says UA/CO and LH will start charging passengers $50 for the 2nd checked bag from November 15, 2010. According to the report AF-KLM already does.
Will BA, 9W, AI follow?
I believe the Gulf carriers will stay put and people will have one more reason to chose them over European/American carriers. 9W might cave in but I think AI might also choose to stay put.

Although I've been lurking around the forums for a while with a free account, I've finally got a paid account and this is my post. I'd like to know what other A.net'ers think about this.

[Edited 2010-10-28 19:20:40]

[Edited 2010-10-28 19:23:25]

[Edited 2010-10-28 19:26:29]

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2870 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9171 times:

Honestly, this was bound to happen. Passengers all around the world have begun to accept paying additional fees for baggage, alcohol, food, entertainment, etc. The days of the all-inclusive Y ticket are coming to an end.

Unless you are moving or going on an overseas shopping spree, you should have no problem packing everything you need into a large bag that weighs 50 lbs or less. Families traveling together can check additional bags (perhaps with winter attire, or gifts for relatives, etc.) for free under their kids' tickets, anyways...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9072 times:

Well, considering the US-India route, every December and July(beginning of the semesters) the route is used by students going to the US for studies and for them the 2nd bag is more of a necessity. Also Indians like to travel heavy.

Moreover established airlines are facing more competition day by day on the route from players like Turkish. In such a scenario in terms of end numbers how much is there to gain? Is it really going to bump up their profits?


User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9048 times:

I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with this whatsoever. Actually, i think you're allowed 70 pounds free in the first checked bag to India. Add to this a free carry on and you're looking at around 100 pounds for every person onboard. People need to remember they're going on vacation and not on some sort of sabbatical where they'll be gone for months on end. Try seeing how much UPS or FEDEX would charge for a 70 pound box to go from the U.S. to India. I can assure you its a hell of a lot more than $50.

User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9047 times:

Quoting bizmark03 (Reply 2):
Also Indians like to travel heavy.

Not a problem....let them pack as many bags as their heart desires...just be prepared to pay for the privilege. It's United AIRLINES not United VANLINES.


User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8995 times:

My question is aren't they loosing out in the market? I mean there are other airlines which will be happy to allow the free 2nd bag and at least match the price of the ticket. Not to mention provide alcohol and hot meals.

User currently offlinefortunerunnner From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 3):
People need to remember they're going on vacation and not on some sort of sabbatical where they'll be gone for months on end.


If you don't know, many folks who do go on vacation from US to India do go for at least 3-4 weeks at a time and some even longer so two bags in many cases is bare minimum one can manage with.

It is another matter that people should not expect the airlines to carry all that luggage for free so I don't mind paying them the fair price to carry that weight.

However if EK or some other airlines offers 2 free check in bags and charges same amount for the ticket then naturally people will prefer them.

Also on flights from US West Coast to India there is even less of a reason for someone to choose likes of UA/LH/AF etc. as they have outdated 744s without PTVs, flight attendants who would care less if passenger gets the food or not (personal experience on LH) and charge more fare than others and asks for additional fees to carry something others are doing for free.

When you have likes of CX, SQ, KE competing on these routes who continue to allow standard 2 free check in bags, offer great service, have much newer planes with PTVs, AVOD, free food, liquor etc. then the choice is quite easy for the paying passengers and it isn't UA/LH/AF.

This is the reason why I have not flown LH in more than a decade which initially used to be my preferred choice on SFO-BOM route back in late 90s but now have been replaced by above mentioned Asian carriers.

[Edited 2010-10-28 21:42:03]

Quoting bizmark03 (Reply 5):
My question is aren't they loosing out in the market? I mean there are other airlines which will be happy to allow the free 2nd bag and at least match the price of the ticket. Not to mention provide alcohol and hot meals.

Yes IMO they are already loosing in the market with steady decline in US-India market share that is now taken by EK, Etihad etc. for East coast cities and by Asian giants such as CX, SQ for the West. I don't have numbers to back up this theory but I believe this has been quite evident at least with informal conclusion that I have made based on my personal preferences and that of people who I know.


[Edited 2010-10-28 21:45:18]

User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8638 times:

Quoting bizmark03 (Thread starter):
The report says UA/CO and LH will start charging passengers $50 for the 2nd checked bag from November 15, 2010.

I can see EY, EK, AI etc. rub their hands with glee, this will move passengers over to them like nothing else! I hope AI does not follow suit, and they'll see their new non-stops to the US fill up pretty quickly, and that should drive up yields as well.

It's not like this reduction in baggage allowance is going to come with a reduction in ticket prices, so VFR passengers are going to choose something else if they have a choice. And *G FFPs on UA/ CO/ LH will continue to get 3X32 kg allowance - and will continue to fly these airlines giving them the high yielding business traffic.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8613 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 7):
I can see EY, EK, AI etc. rub their hands with glee, this will move passengers over to them like nothing else!

And you're assuming that EY, EK, AI etc. are priced the same if not lower than UAL. My guess is UA on average is a cheaper option than the afformentioned carriers even with the $50 checked bag fee.

Quoting fortunerunnner (Reply 6):
If you don't know, many folks who do go on vacation from US to India do go for at least 3-4 weeks at a time and some even longer so two bags in many cases is bare minimum one can manage with.

And my response is the same no matter. You are essentially allotted 100lbs of "stuff" per person (70lbs in the checked bag and 30lbs in a carry-on). I guess your going to tell me that 400lbs for a family of 4 is insufficient for 3-4 weeks overseas? Are they carrying gold bars in their checked bags?


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8569 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
And you're assuming that EY, EK, AI etc. are priced the same if not lower than UAL. My guess is UA on average is a cheaper option than the afformentioned carriers even with the $50 checked bag fee.

Yes - I'm assuming that EY, EK, AI etc. are the same if not lower than UA/ CO/ LH. Remember - if this move in baggage allowance is accompanied by lower ticket prices, then it certainly will not cause folks to move away.

Don't we hear all the time of EY, EK "dumping" capacity in their target markets often at "below-profitability" prices?



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
You are essentially allotted 100lbs of "stuff" per person (70lbs in the checked bag and 30lbs in a carry-on).

50 lbs checked....only Brazil is allowed 70 free.


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8546 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
And you're assuming that EY, EK, AI etc. are priced the same if not lower than UAL. My guess is UA on average is a cheaper option than the afformentioned carriers even with the $50 checked bag fee.

Etihad airways is always the cheapest on any India - US route. AirIndia and CO are priced the same more or less.

Regarding the fees to the second bag, AI/9W/ will NOT add it unless AI is pressurized by Star to do so. $50 may not be a great amount for an average US traveler however Rs. 2,200 for an Indian traveler is a very significant amount. Secondly everyone has that ability to make a decision that whether paying 2,200 for a second bag and paying for alcohol is deal or the all inclusive Y ticket is worth. Neither LH nor CO/UA have a reputation that people will pay a premium to fly them, here only FFPs will count. And you can trust EK, EY, QR to get into a fare war and can quote really low prices thus making life miserable for them.

I think the damage will occur at places like HYD, CCU, MAA to LH. Also knowing how AI woos the VFR traffic the non stops of AI will just be the preferred option.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlinerameshksm From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8521 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
It's United AIRLINES not United VANLINES.

Quite right. And meanwhile Cathay Pacific Vanways, Emirate Vanlines, Singapore Vanlines and the like will be quite happy to take on these passengers.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8397 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 4):
It's United AIRLINES not United VANLINES.

That's not right, it's actually United GREYHOUNDLINES - if you consider the service on board! VANLINES will be giving it some undue credit  



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8167 times:

So do these airlines(likes of UA/CO & LH) consider the non-FFP economy passenger an insignificant part of their market?
Because at times UA/CO might be able to compete in terms of price but at least I have never seen a competitively priced LH ticket.
What I'm trying to understand is what do they have going for them by introducing these measures, when your competitors are giving all the service in the world and often even beat you in the price war.
And its not like UA/CO or LH are making a loss, as far as I know the CO non-stop to DEL and BOM are doing well.
Another factor is CO operates the 777-200ER on the route and i dont know about DEL but for the BOM-EWR flights they are not allowed revenue cargo. So the fact that they do not have 200LR's is hindering their ability to extend their profits.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8139 times:

CO must be the master of 77E abuse - they do EWR-HKG/DEL/BOM nonstop !!

User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7996 times:

Quoting fortunerunnner (Reply 6):
If you don't know, many folks who do go on vacation from US to India do go for at least 3-4 weeks at a time and some even longer so two bags in many cases is bare minimum one can manage with.

Unless someone is moving, two bags should be enough for any long vacation. If things get dirty, have them cleaned.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7791 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 16):
Unless someone is moving, two bags should be enough for any long vacation. If things get dirty, have them cleaned.

Please don't turn a purely commercial discussion into what's right and what's wrong. I could argue further that there's no need to fly at all, just stay at home - sounds silly doesn't it?



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2179 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7780 times:

One airline tries, others follow, as usual.
Now Europe/US airlines should not come complaining about EK unfairly stealing them market shares. They shoot themselves in the foot by doing so and letting EK become more attractive...

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Unless you are moving or going on an overseas shopping spree, you should have no problem packing everything you need into a large bag that weighs 50 lbs or less.

Yeah but "oversea shopping spree" exactly what many Indians coming to N Am for any purpose or Indian residents in N Am going back to the homeland do...

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 16):
Unless someone is moving, two bags should be enough for any long vacation. If things get dirty, have them cleaned.

In fact, in most cases one should be enough. But not when it comes to backpacking/camping/trekking/skiing (not in India for the latter though!), etc... Two usually is the typical number for that kind of vacation (i talk by experience!) and three are avoided by most as extremely inconvenient to carry...



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineLAX888 From Singapore, joined Oct 2010, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

It seems the airlines who provide good service and good IFE, modern planes etc. seem to have no problem till now with ppl checking in a second bag for free, whereas airlines who offer below par service, old planes, lack of IFE etc seem to charge for a second bag...interesting to say the least...this means a total of USD 100 for a return flight...I am sure in this competitive market this can lead to pax choosing an airline which does not charge this extra. I know I would...

User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

Since AF-KLM already has a charge on the 2nd checked bag does it have any numbers to support the move. Like has it increased revenue on the route,increased loads, etc.

User currently offlineN809FR From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 16):
Unless someone is moving, two bags should be enough for any long vacation. If things get dirty, have them cleaned.

I have the feeling this is more in line with what DL was having problems with on their LOS flight, people want to bring everything they own and the kitchen sink on these flights, and the airlines are trying to disuade them from doing so.


User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7340 times:

Quoting N809FR (Reply 21):
I have the feeling this is more in line with what DL was having problems with on their LOS flight, people want to bring everything they own and the kitchen sink on these flights, and the airlines are trying to disuade them from doing so.

I've been on the US-India route a number of times and I haven't seen any ridiculous items. I think what people pack in their bags is their business as long as they are legal and manage to fit it within the allotted bag size and weight restrictions.

Anyways the discussion here is not about people's traveling habits. Like posted in Reply 17, this is purely a business discussion weather the airlines are loosing out or gaining by charging extra for the 2nd bag.
Also is there any analysis on how this move will benefit the airline and/or the passengers in the long run?


User currently offlinefortunerunnner From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7116 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 16):

Unless someone is moving, two bags should be enough for any long vacation. If things get dirty, have them cleaned.

Just go and see for yourself what a regular VFR passenger packs in his/her bags who is traveling from US to India after 2 yrs and then explain me what you would consider to be redundant items. If I don't know about the issue, I would not pass a judgment on something without finding it out for myself.

Going on a vacation to see new places and going back to family after 2-3 yrs is totally different things.

As far as what is fair price for carrying that weight, it is a commercial discussion and there is no reason to bring what is "right" and what is "wrong" to carry in one's bag. That is the personal decision each traveler makes and you have no right to tell others that what they are carrying is "stupid".

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):

And my response is the same no matter. You are essentially allotted 100lbs of "stuff" per person (70lbs in the checked bag and 30lbs in a carry-on). I guess your going to tell me that 400lbs for a family of 4 is insufficient for 3-4 weeks overseas? Are they carrying gold bars in their checked bags?


If they could afford to carry that many gold bars with them then there is no reason for them to fly the likes of UA/LH in their "cattle class" they can very well afford to charter a private plane to their destination.   

Going on a vacation for few weeks to see a different place and going back to the family after multiple years are two different things and what you would pack for vacation is not same as what you take with you when you go back home to your family that you haven't seen in years.

Now the matter of charging a fair price to carry all that weight, that is a separate discussion and we already know who is winning there.

Even in US, Southwest is flaunting the fact that they dont charge for bags and they are still making money.

Last I checked, UA/DL/AA etc. were in red until very recent quarters, they had started charging for bags much earlier than last couple of quarters so charging for bags may not be a sound decision as some here seems to think it is.

[Edited 2010-10-29 10:25:32]

[Edited 2010-10-29 10:26:39]

User currently offlinebuck3y3nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7032 times:

Quoting LAX888 (Reply 19):
I am sure in this competitive market this can lead to pax choosing an airline which does not charge this extra. I know I would...

I totally concur with this. $100 for a roundtrip seems quite steep for my 2nd bag  


25 cloud4000 : Are Gulf carriers really that liberal with baggage allowances? My parents flew BOS-LHR-DXB-DAC via AA/EK and they weren't allowed 70lb per person. Ame
26 Post contains images Cricket : Most airlines have 'student' schemes allowing excess luggage on India-US sectors. This decision will hit long-stay VFR traffic more - parents et al. N
27 bizmark03 : Like someone mentioned above, 70lbs is just for Brazil, for US-India the norm is 2 bags each not more than 50lbs(23Kgs). All Gulf carriers allow 2 ba
28 AADC10 : Most people visiting relatives in developing countries have to take the requisite gifts for just about everybody. It is not unusual to need to give e
29 Post contains links blrsea : When I look up AF's website for SEA-BLR flight, it tells me that I will have allowance for 2 23kg bags.
30 cloud4000 : The ticket was issued by EK, but my parents went through a travel agent. The travel agent wasn't clear on the baggage allowance. AA said only 23kg pe
31 bizmark03 : Ok even i checked, It seems like AF does provide the free 2nd checked bag for India -US flights, but not India-Europe or Europe-US flights. So I gues
32 ag92 : Risky decision, I mean its like this, the first time it will work due to ignorance, then the second time they will remember. We travel heavy, and if
33 hiflyer : Sure they do..from EWR UA/CO The $50 fee for US to Europe second bag started summer 2009...from what I heard started by AF/KLM but jumped on by the r
34 hohd : Passengers to/from India travel heavy since most travel is for atleast 2 weeks +. One bag at 23 kilos or 50 lbs is quite inadequate for a long journey
35 rameshksm : Not sure about travel agents, but with US Airways, United and Delta, the airlines were pretty clear that they would follow whatever was the applicabl
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