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Is Upright Seat Rule, A Mandatory Code?  
User currently offlineB727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 300 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3119 times:

I flew on Egypt Air from Dubai to Cairo last Thursday. The flight was scheduled for 4:30am, but we had about 1+ hr delay. I noticed may of the passengers who were boarded before us already asleep with their seats leaned back... None of the flight attendants asked for the seats to be turned up-right, and we flew off to Cairo! So is this "turn your seats in up-right position" not really mandatory?! I thought it all had to do with safety and emergency evacuation protocol. No pun intended @ Egypt Air, but I found this to be awkward that they let their passengers be and forgoing the safety protocol (if indeed needs to be enforced)
Thanks in advance for your feedback and any clarifications.

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3109 times:

Keep in mind that U.S. safety regulations do not apply on flights outside of our borders.

So even if the "Seats in the upright position" is in the FAR's, it would not be applicable to the flight you were on.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3078 times:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

I've only had two flights with EgyptAir, but on one of them (CAI-BKK), we had a really short taxi to the active, which left very little time for the safety video. Apparently, the pilots were in a hurry, because by the time the safety video ended, we were passing 8000 feet and climbing!   



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3028 times:

Quoting B727fan (Thread starter):
So is this "turn your seats in up-right position" not really mandatory?!

It is only mandatory for takeoff and landing. So yes, rules were most likely violated.

Quoting JBo (Reply 1):
Keep in mind that U.S. safety regulations do not apply on flights outside of our borders.

However ICAO recommendations state the same requirement for seats IIRC, and while each country can do as they please, they can not be less strict than ICAO, usually.


User currently offlineAKLRNO From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

It also depends on the seat itself. I believe the rule is there so that all passengers have the easiest possible path to the aisle. In NZ business class on 747 and 777 types the seats are in a herringbone pattern (like on Virgin Atlantic) so every seat has easy aisle access. The safety video points out that business class passengers may adjust the seat to any angle they want before takeoff. I usually recline to an easy TV viewing angle. NZ also lets you use the IFE from the moment you board until you walk off as long as you keep the screen stowed.

User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3001 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
It is only mandatory for takeoff and landing. So yes, rules were most likely violated.

IMO, it's pointless. What are the benefits of leaving my seat upright during takeoff or landing? It's not like if we crash I'm dead just because my seat was reclined. Besides, with the little recline in coach, you'd have to wonder what's the difference? With a lie-flat, it's a different story. And before you shoot me, I follow the rules and put my seat upright. I'm just asking why is it mandatory.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinerwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3081 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5):
IMO, it's pointless. What are the benefits of leaving my seat upright during takeoff or landing? It's not like if we crash I'm dead just because my seat was reclined. Besides, with the little recline in coach, you'd have to wonder what's the difference? With a lie-flat, it's a different story. And before you shoot me, I follow the rules and put my seat upright. I'm just asking why is it mandatory.

It's not about you - it's about the person behind you who may not be able to get out of their seat in an emergency.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5):

IMO, it's pointless. What are the benefits of leaving my seat upright during takeoff or landing?

It is all about the speed of evacuating a plane. Seats upright make it easier to evacuate and the airplane was certified with that criteria. On some of the newer business class and first class seats where recline does not affect the row behind, a reclined position is often allowed.

Also, seats must be able to withstand either 9G or 16G (depending on cert requirements). The seats are designed to meet these requirements in the upright position. They are tested accordingly. Some business class seats allow recline, but they have to meet the safety requirements. Some such as the BA seats have a locked position which is partially reclined for takeoff and landing. This is where the seat meets the acceleration force requirements.

There is a lot of engineering that goes behind the certification of aircraft that is not visible to the unaware passenger. The strict requirements are why more crashes are survivable. If it is in the FARs, there is a reason for it. Requirements on an airplane are not there just to inconvenience passengers.

With that said, some countries and airlines do not strictly enforce the requirements like in the US. Some Middle Eastern, African & Asian airlines are notorious for this. It is up to the regulatory bodies to ensure compliance. Some regulatory bodies are so weak in enforcing requirements that their airlines are banned or restricted from operating in the EU and/or US.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Nothing about air travel in Egypt surprises me.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5):
Besides, with the little recline in coach, you'd have to wonder what's the difference?


It's not the easiest thing in the world for a passenger to get past a seat that is reclined - i.e. window seat passenger trying to get past a middle or aisle seat that is leaning back into the already restricted space in Y.

When I recently flew on EK in F (or what they call P, for Private Suite) the purser was demonstrating the cabin features and advised me that the seat is locked in the upright position prior to take-off.

But with air travel in Egypt, I can believe almost anything. Departure gates that only show arrivals on the monitors; being unable to get off the bus at a remote stand because the airline hadn't purchased fuel; being given a boarding card in the name of Mrs Williams when I am quite clearly not a Mrs Anybody...


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