Sponsor Message:
Travel Polls & Prefs Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Greatest 'overkill' On A Route  
User currently offlineEltomzo From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17943 times:

I wonder what your opinions are on the greatest overkill on an airline route regularly operated?

I just traveled DOH-BAH (which great circle mapper places at 91 miles) in a QR 77W.

This route is utilising 0.01% of the aircraft's range potential, and the load factor was about 20%. I know that the aircraft may have been operating the route purely because it had nothing else to do during that time, but can you tell me of any similar route overkills you know of?


AA AC AF BA BD BE BR CA CI CX CZ EZY FR HU HX GA GS IT J2 KL LH LX MK MU NH OZ QR SA SQ TG TK TCX UN UX VN VS VY WY W6 Y
77 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemsypi7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17886 times:

Was this flight some sort of a tag on route. That is usually the case especially with widebodies with very very short segments I any familliar with.

MD


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2662 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17679 times:

Looking at their timetable, most flights on that route are operated by A319/20/21's and one RT operated with an A330. It sounds like the 77W was an aircraft substitution.

User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17459 times:

Quoting msypi7185 (Reply 1):
Was this flight some sort of a tag on route.

Airplane substitutions usually explain these odd scenarios, excepting the tag-on the end of the main route sectors that some airlines fly (eg, United Airlines Sydney to Melbourne and back using Boeing 747-400).

The passengers must surely enjoy flying Sydney to Melbourne (or the reverse) on a B747-400. How could anyone not find that plenty of fun, just look at how it leaps off the runway.  

B777W must be pretty lively on DOH-BAH as well I'd guess.

Sometimes airlines will fly large planes on a route to position them elsewhere when needed - and that positioning flight might well be a route they can stick passengers on as well, rather than sending the plane empty.

Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter):
but can you tell me of any similar route overkills you know of?

Paris to London and back with Air France on the A380.


User currently offlineDTWHKG From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17415 times:

77W has a range of 910,000 miles?

User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17365 times:

Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter):
the load factor was about 20%

But you don't know what the load factor in the belly was. That aircraft could have been full of cargo, and making a ton of money.

AC uses the 77L on YYZ-YVR. YYZ-YUL can see A333's, 77W, 77L......sometimes it is about positioning, or a tag on, but it could have been about cargo.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19282 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17331 times:

Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter):

I just traveled DOH-BAH (which great circle mapper places at 91 miles) in a QR 77W.

Once flew GVA-ZRH in a SR 743.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17248 times:

How about 16 daily flights LGA-PHL on US?


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6079 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17228 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 7):

Full of business passengers. I doubt this is overkill.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineCODCA09 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17227 times:

Back in the 80s UA did things like that quite frequently:

747-200 SAN-LAX (110 miles) continued on to HNL I believe
DC-10 BWI-IAD (46 miles) that continued on to LAX
DC-10 OAK-SFO (11 miles) that continued on to somewhere in the east


User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17113 times:

Not nearly as overkill as some other examples. but the regular amount of DL widebodies on ATL-MCO/TPA comes to mind.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15693 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17032 times:

Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter):
I wonder what your opinions are on the greatest overkill on an airline route regularly operated?

How is any of it overkill if the planes are filled and profitable?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBlueJuice From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17033 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 8):

I recall reading all those roundtrips are a way to hold slots at LGA.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 16835 times:

ATL-DTW is pretty well served. Even by a 77L sometimes. But these are needed for fleet placement


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16278 times:

Quoting CODCA09 (Reply 9):
DC-10 BWI-IAD (46 miles) that continued on to LAX

Was this DC-10 scheduled service? I have flown BWI-IAD two or three times in the 80's, but it was on a Part 135 carrier. The UA fares BWI-LAX were insanely lower than IAD-LAX, and BWI-IAD-LAX was a permitted routing.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineBNEFlyer From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16136 times:

As of May BNE-SYD will be served 4x weely with a 744 as the final leg of DFW-BNE-SYD (QF8) and is bookable to anybody. It's been many years since that route was servied by a 744 (previously attached as a leg of an LAX flight).

User currently offlineZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16012 times:

Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter):
I just traveled DOH-BAH (which great circle mapper places at 91 miles) in a QR 77W.

This route is utilising 0.01% of the aircraft's range potential,

So, the range is 910,000 miles?!
How many math teachers committed suicide because of you?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6394 posts, RR: 39
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15959 times:

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 15):

You've just got me tempted to do another fun across the ditch trip to catch a 744 on this domestic leg! Yes, I remember looking at timetables of QF25/26 doing SYD-BNE-AKL-LAX on some days..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2948 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15813 times:

due to the lack of any narrowbody aircraft in the EK fleet DXB-DOH, DXB-MCT, DXB-BAH see several widebodies daily.

EK 847 DXB 02:30 DOH 02:30 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 841 DXB 08:25 DOH 08:30 EQV 0 1234567 01:05 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 843 DXB 14:15 DOH 14:15 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 849 DXB 17:05 DOH 17:05 EQV 0 123-567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 845 DXB 22:15 DOH 22:15 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb

EK 866 DXB 02:55 MCT 03:55 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 862 DXB 08:30 MCT 09:30 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb

EK 835 DXB 02:30 BAH 02:45 EQV 0 1234567 01:15 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 837 DXB 08:30 BAH 08:45 332 0 1234567 01:15 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 839 DXB 16:30 BAH 16:45 EQV 0 1234567 01:15 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb


User currently offlinerobso2 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15789 times:

UIO-GYE on A343 (and previously A346) which is 162 miles


733/4/5/6/7/8/9, 319/20/21, 752, 744, 772, 332/3, 343/6, E70/90, AT43, AR85/1, D38, D10, M82
User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15732 times:

I once flew 56 kilometres in an Aeroflot Ilyushin Il-62 from Moscow's Bykovo Airport to Sheremetyevo Airport on the other side of the city. AND the plane was almost full.

There were, as you might imagine, special reasons for such a short trans-Moscow flight in an Il-62.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6474 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15715 times:

Avoiding the horrendous traffic ? 


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinetoneale From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15637 times:

Once flew IAD to DCA in a Braniff 727. Flight originated in SAT, stopped and dropped off passengers at IAD and then continued to DCA. Strange trip, 20 NM.

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8727 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15605 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting robso2 (Reply 19):
UIO-GYE on A343 (and previously A346) which is 162 miles

How is this "overkill" since IB operates the route as MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD?


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2012 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14595 times:

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 18):
due to the lack of any narrowbody aircraft in the EK fleet DXB-DOH, DXB-MCT, DXB-BAH see several widebodies daily.

Yes, stylo, I too have seen EK widebodies in BAH.

Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter):
I just traveled DOH-BAH (which great circle mapper places at 91 miles) in a QR 77W.

Other people are also citing examples..Like I remember in the olden days how UA had a DC10 going from Denver Stapleton to Colorado Springs (60 miles). That aside, I think this thread touches on an issue worthy of discussion---QR and EK have an abundance of capacity (EY less so).

Living in the UAE, I can personally vouch that it is a small country awash in airline capacity ( hubs for Etihad, EK, FlyDubai, and Air Arabia in addition to everyone else). But that is another topic.


25 Post contains images Pe@rson : Don't mean to be disrespectful, but on what do you base your belief? In-depth analysis of passenger and freight demand, yields, and load factors? Wha
26 lhrnue : I was on a LH747 from DXB to AUH (as a tag on from FRA) with 4 pax in business and maybe 20 in economy.
27 alwaysontherun : I've seen some really silly comments in this thread!! Overkill is not necessarily "the biggest plane for the shortest route". Why is the AF A380 to Lo
28 heathrow : I would consider OA opperating 747's and 340's to LHR from ATH "overkill".
29 rutankrd : Controversial opinion - Greatest over kill/over capacity on earth is without doubt between London and New York.
30 COS777 : Back in the 90's, UA flew a DC-10 DEN-COS-DEN. It was always the last flight of the day DEN-COS and then returned to DEN early the next morning. The r
31 n92r03 : And in the 90's it was LAX-SAN on the DL L-1011. Some days I would commute outbound on a Skywest flight and come back on the L-1011. Between ATL and
32 baexecutive : The Edinburgh - London market is fully served....not sure if its 'overkill' though as don't know loads etc but they also have a decent rail service (b
33 ncelhr : I've taken that flight last year, on a 773ER, with 22 other PAX. I couldn't believe it. The crew just had nothing to do... We took off like a rocket.
34 Tolosy : No wonder why Braniff went bankrupt...
35 my1le : Not really overkill becuase it is reported to be full - FedEx operates the 757 between IAD and DCA every morning taking papers in and out of Washingto
36 Tomassjc : During most of the 70s most Air California and many PSA flights out of OAK stopped in SJC. I did a SJC-OAK on PSA once in 11 minutes! OAK-SJC-SNA....O
37 Eltomzo : I've written an angry email to Casio telling them to fix their calculators! No it was a proper route, not tag on or a/c positioning because I came ba
38 keagkid101 : I would think that 25+ daily flights on WN from DAL to HOU is overkill.
39 flylku : We did EZE-MVD in a UA 767-300 but that was an add-on flight. It is 124nm. My wife did FRA-HAM in a 747-400 but that was during the earliest days of t
40 flylku : I'd like to see the cost benefit analysis on something like this. It is my understanding that while some required maintenance is based on time (which
41 SCL767 : AA still operates EZE-MVD-EZE with the B772 4x weekly during the Southern Winter (the routing is MIA-EZE-MVD-EZE-MIA).
42 Ben175 : PER-DPS is basically at its peak, with 9-11 daily flights. Garuda, Air Asia, Jetstar, Pacific Blue & Strategic operate the route, with Batavia com
43 Post contains links and images ORDFan : Not sure if anyone else remembers this, but Malaysian used to fly a 772 to VIE via ZAG back in the mid/late 90s. Flew ZAG-VIE once and it was the cool
44 us330 : Hardly--it's a big business market, and the two airports are the closest to downtown. Driving can take anywhere between 3.5 to 5 hours, depending on
45 WA707atMSP : This trip existed soley because of the perimeter rule at DCA, which is being discussed in another thread. AA used to fly DCA-IAD-DFW, until DCA's per
46 fanofjets : Sometimes, "overkill" is a result of pricing. The frequent air service between MAD and BCN, with plenty of quality train service between the two Spani
47 SOBHI51 : Sometimes Airlines fly different planes on short haul for pilot training purposes.
48 LONGisland89 : DL is starting 5x daily ATL-DAB on 757s in the next few weeks. Even for Daytona's "high season," this seems like overkill.
49 Archer : Several years ago I flew an Air Pacific (FIJI) 747-400 from Nadi to Sydney. Only 40 people of so but they were basically deadheading to pick up app. 4
50 N766UA : LOL that's to the moon and back and then around the world 15 more times for good measure. That's impressive.[Edited 2011-02-05 11:05:25]
51 nycflyer : I've done that route! It was fun. I've also flown Yemenia r/t SAH-ADE-SAD on an A330. Not a tag-on. Beautiful, new planes, but maybe 20% full. And ho
52 Mainliner : This one comes up so much. It's not as empty as you might think. I operate this route several times per month; one day we might carry 10 pax to PHL,
53 wingsofman72 : Way back when, there were tons of these when fuel was cheap. MIA-FLL , MIA-DAB , MIA-MCO among others on L1011s and NA had some MIA-PBI, MIA-TPA with
54 keagkid101 : I fly this route frequently. The flight usually has more than 15 people on it
55 N809FR : Since I'll be traveling to SIN in March I've been looking at flights to KUL, talk about overkill! There are plenty of flights a day between the two ci
56 CODCA09 : It was published in UA's timetable and in the OAG. from 1982.
57 Post contains images Airportugal310 : I would have thought the same thing at one point, until I had to drive it. Then it didn't seem too bad anymore!
58 OzarkD9S : How many local pax? Connecting maybe, but local PHL-LGA v.v.? Slot holders, nothing that 5-6 mainline couldn't handle to feed the PHL hub.
59 bjorn14 : I know JL operate(d)s a lot of 744 intra Japan routes.
60 Post contains links Viscount724 : Not for long. The last JL 744 will be retired by the end of this month. http://blog.seattlepi.com/worldairlinenews/archives/230676.asp
61 keagkid101 : Mainline from DCA to LGA is also overkill. I've flown this route on an A319--no more than 20 people on-board.
62 Irishpower : Back in the day Pan Am flight 815 (I believe) used to fly a 747SP SFO-LAX-SYD and back the same way. I'm guessing the SFO-LAX leg on the 747SP was ove
63 SASDC8 : Thai flies BKK-HKT/CNX with only WB A/C like 747, 777, 300 and 330. These flights are normally quite full, so I would no call them overkill. The fact
64 Tomassjc : They also had PA 515, a daily 747 SFO-LAX-GUA. I remember that after deregulation, they carried local pax on it for a really low fare! When I rode it
65 nycflyer : You may have had an outlier experience. This is one of the highest-yielding business routes in the U.S. And the planes are very full, especially b/w
66 Alasizon : One could argue that the SEA-PDX market's 50 flights daily (both directions combined) could be a bit overkill, while yes it is great for connecting AS
67 flylku : Interesting. Now that you mention it, at the time an AA 767-300 overnighted there on the ramp right next to the UA hardware.
68 FlyDeltaJets87 : I want to say I remember reading on here that a flight such as "SFO-OAK" wouldn't be counted as a cycle because the aircraft wouldn't be pressurized
69 Post contains images keagkid101 : I flew the 8am flight on a Monday in December. I was so surprised with only 20 people on-board. At least I had the outlier experience
70 JHCRJ700 : The BWI-PHL Airbus service comes to mind. A319s regularly fly the route and I think I've seen A321s on the route sometimes too. That is a lot of metal
71 Post contains images Maverick623 : There's maybe 3 or 4 flights a day that go out >75% full. Some of them routinely go out with less than 5 pax, and all the flights are on Dash 8s (
72 SCL767 : AA has 4 B772s that spend all day on the ground at EZE. During the Southern Winter, AA operates MIA-MVD 3x weekly and MIA-EZE-MVD 4x weekly. AA Bueno
73 Post contains links AeroWesty : I don't want to take this thread off-topic, so this is merely to point to a reference. The "it costs too much to park a plane overnight at X airport"
74 Flighty : Has been a 757-200 in the past.
75 Post contains images TWA902fly : HAHA! I am glad somebody has a sense of humor on this website! '902
76 planeguy727 : My experience (and only my experience) is that the 6 and 7am LGA-DCA flights go out with a solid load of pax. I find the 4, 5,6, and 7pm DCA-LGA flig
77 OP3000 : I just flew PHL-DCA yesterday on an A319, and load was about 75%. Overwhelmingly, most passengers (including myself) were connecting from points beyo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Grumpiest Passengers On A Route? posted Sat Nov 17 2007 13:09:37 by SkyGourmet
Most Drunk Passengers On A Route (Worldwide)? posted Fri Nov 16 2007 12:35:32 by Bofredrik
On Route Airways Website posted Sun Jul 10 2005 16:31:26 by Dsa
Whats The Most Ac Changes You've Had On 1 Route? posted Sat Sep 18 2004 05:33:27 by Kcrwflyer
Ever Been On An Airline's Final Flight On A Route? posted Sun May 30 2004 17:49:37 by CXA330300
Seat Config BA On Hong Kong Route posted Sun Aug 15 2010 09:15:16 by silverfox
Number Of Types On One Route? posted Wed May 6 2009 09:38:28 by Mcr
Longest Route On A 764? posted Wed Sep 17 2008 06:28:25 by Haggis79
TG Flights Loads On ZRH-BKK Route? posted Sun Sep 7 2008 06:24:13 by CastropRauxel
What Scheduled Route Has The Greatest No. Of Stops posted Sun Jun 1 2008 00:48:11 by Fly2CHC