Eltomzo From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 67 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 18015 times:
I wonder what your opinions are on the greatest overkill on an airline route regularly operated?
I just traveled DOH-BAH (which great circle mapper places at 91 miles) in a QR 77W.
This route is utilising 0.01% of the aircraft's range potential, and the load factor was about 20%. I know that the aircraft may have been operating the route purely because it had nothing else to do during that time, but can you tell me of any similar route overkills you know of?
AA AC AF BA BD BE BR CA CI CX CZ EZY FR HU HX GA GS IT J2 KL LH LX MK MU NH OZ QR SA SQ TG TK TCX UN UX VN VS VY WY W6 Y
Airplane substitutions usually explain these odd scenarios, excepting the tag-on the end of the main route sectors that some airlines fly (eg, United Airlines Sydney to Melbourne and back using Boeing 747-400).
The passengers must surely enjoy flying Sydney to Melbourne (or the reverse) on a B747-400. How could anyone not find that plenty of fun, just look at how it leaps off the runway.
B777W must be pretty lively on DOH-BAH as well I'd guess.
Sometimes airlines will fly large planes on a route to position them elsewhere when needed - and that positioning flight might well be a route they can stick passengers on as well, rather than sending the plane empty.
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16350 times:
Quoting CODCA09 (Reply 9): DC-10 BWI-IAD (46 miles) that continued on to LAX
Was this DC-10 scheduled service? I have flown BWI-IAD two or three times in the 80's, but it was on a Part 135 carrier. The UA fares BWI-LAX were insanely lower than IAD-LAX, and BWI-IAD-LAX was a permitted routing.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
BNEFlyer From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16208 times:
As of May BNE-SYD will be served 4x weely with a 744 as the final leg of DFW-BNE-SYD (QF8) and is bookable to anybody. It's been many years since that route was servied by a 744 (previously attached as a leg of an LAX flight).
stylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3055 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 15885 times:
due to the lack of any narrowbody aircraft in the EK fleet DXB-DOH, DXB-MCT, DXB-BAH see several widebodies daily.
EK 847 DXB 02:30 DOH 02:30 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 841 DXB 08:25 DOH 08:30 EQV 0 1234567 01:05 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 843 DXB 14:15 DOH 14:15 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 849 DXB 17:05 DOH 17:05 EQV 0 123-567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 845 DXB 22:15 DOH 22:15 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 866 DXB 02:55 MCT 03:55 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 862 DXB 08:30 MCT 09:30 EQV 0 1234567 01:00 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 835 DXB 02:30 BAH 02:45 EQV 0 1234567 01:15 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 837 DXB 08:30 BAH 08:45 332 0 1234567 01:15 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
EK 839 DXB 16:30 BAH 16:45 EQV 0 1234567 01:15 3 I 08 Feb 15 Feb
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2110 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14667 times:
Quoting stylo777 (Reply 18): due to the lack of any narrowbody aircraft in the EK fleet DXB-DOH, DXB-MCT, DXB-BAH see several widebodies daily.
Yes, stylo, I too have seen EK widebodies in BAH.
Quoting Eltomzo (Thread starter): I just traveled DOH-BAH (which great circle mapper places at 91 miles) in a QR 77W.
Other people are also citing examples..Like I remember in the olden days how UA had a DC10 going from Denver Stapleton to Colorado Springs (60 miles). That aside, I think this thread touches on an issue worthy of discussion---QR and EK have an abundance of capacity (EY less so).
Living in the UAE, I can personally vouch that it is a small country awash in airline capacity ( hubs for Etihad, EK, FlyDubai, and Air Arabia in addition to everyone else). But that is another topic.
: Don't mean to be disrespectful, but on what do you base your belief? In-depth analysis of passenger and freight demand, yields, and load factors? Wha
: I was on a LH747 from DXB to AUH (as a tag on from FRA) with 4 pax in business and maybe 20 in economy.
: I've seen some really silly comments in this thread!! Overkill is not necessarily "the biggest plane for the shortest route". Why is the AF A380 to Lo
: I would consider OA opperating 747's and 340's to LHR from ATH "overkill".
: Controversial opinion - Greatest over kill/over capacity on earth is without doubt between London and New York.
: Back in the 90's, UA flew a DC-10 DEN-COS-DEN. It was always the last flight of the day DEN-COS and then returned to DEN early the next morning. The r
: And in the 90's it was LAX-SAN on the DL L-1011. Some days I would commute outbound on a Skywest flight and come back on the L-1011. Between ATL and
: The Edinburgh - London market is fully served....not sure if its 'overkill' though as don't know loads etc but they also have a decent rail service (b
: I've taken that flight last year, on a 773ER, with 22 other PAX. I couldn't believe it. The crew just had nothing to do... We took off like a rocket.
: No wonder why Braniff went bankrupt...
: Not really overkill becuase it is reported to be full - FedEx operates the 757 between IAD and DCA every morning taking papers in and out of Washingto
: During most of the 70s most Air California and many PSA flights out of OAK stopped in SJC. I did a SJC-OAK on PSA once in 11 minutes! OAK-SJC-SNA....O
: I've written an angry email to Casio telling them to fix their calculators! No it was a proper route, not tag on or a/c positioning because I came ba
: I would think that 25+ daily flights on WN from DAL to HOU is overkill.
: We did EZE-MVD in a UA 767-300 but that was an add-on flight. It is 124nm. My wife did FRA-HAM in a 747-400 but that was during the earliest days of t
: I'd like to see the cost benefit analysis on something like this. It is my understanding that while some required maintenance is based on time (which
: AA still operates EZE-MVD-EZE with the B772 4x weekly during the Southern Winter (the routing is MIA-EZE-MVD-EZE-MIA).
: PER-DPS is basically at its peak, with 9-11 daily flights. Garuda, Air Asia, Jetstar, Pacific Blue & Strategic operate the route, with Batavia com
: Not sure if anyone else remembers this, but Malaysian used to fly a 772 to VIE via ZAG back in the mid/late 90s. Flew ZAG-VIE once and it was the cool
: Hardly--it's a big business market, and the two airports are the closest to downtown. Driving can take anywhere between 3.5 to 5 hours, depending on
: This trip existed soley because of the perimeter rule at DCA, which is being discussed in another thread. AA used to fly DCA-IAD-DFW, until DCA's per
: Sometimes, "overkill" is a result of pricing. The frequent air service between MAD and BCN, with plenty of quality train service between the two Spani
: Sometimes Airlines fly different planes on short haul for pilot training purposes.
: DL is starting 5x daily ATL-DAB on 757s in the next few weeks. Even for Daytona's "high season," this seems like overkill.
: Several years ago I flew an Air Pacific (FIJI) 747-400 from Nadi to Sydney. Only 40 people of so but they were basically deadheading to pick up app. 4
: LOL that's to the moon and back and then around the world 15 more times for good measure. That's impressive.[Edited 2011-02-05 11:05:25]
: I've done that route! It was fun. I've also flown Yemenia r/t SAH-ADE-SAD on an A330. Not a tag-on. Beautiful, new planes, but maybe 20% full. And ho
: This one comes up so much. It's not as empty as you might think. I operate this route several times per month; one day we might carry 10 pax to PHL,
: Way back when, there were tons of these when fuel was cheap. MIA-FLL , MIA-DAB , MIA-MCO among others on L1011s and NA had some MIA-PBI, MIA-TPA with
: I fly this route frequently. The flight usually has more than 15 people on it
: Since I'll be traveling to SIN in March I've been looking at flights to KUL, talk about overkill! There are plenty of flights a day between the two ci
: It was published in UA's timetable and in the OAG. from 1982.
: I would have thought the same thing at one point, until I had to drive it. Then it didn't seem too bad anymore!
: How many local pax? Connecting maybe, but local PHL-LGA v.v.? Slot holders, nothing that 5-6 mainline couldn't handle to feed the PHL hub.
: I know JL operate(d)s a lot of 744 intra Japan routes.
: Not for long. The last JL 744 will be retired by the end of this month. http://blog.seattlepi.com/worldairlinenews/archives/230676.asp
: Mainline from DCA to LGA is also overkill. I've flown this route on an A319--no more than 20 people on-board.
: Back in the day Pan Am flight 815 (I believe) used to fly a 747SP SFO-LAX-SYD and back the same way. I'm guessing the SFO-LAX leg on the 747SP was ove
: Thai flies BKK-HKT/CNX with only WB A/C like 747, 777, 300 and 330. These flights are normally quite full, so I would no call them overkill. The fact
: They also had PA 515, a daily 747 SFO-LAX-GUA. I remember that after deregulation, they carried local pax on it for a really low fare! When I rode it
: You may have had an outlier experience. This is one of the highest-yielding business routes in the U.S. And the planes are very full, especially b/w
: One could argue that the SEA-PDX market's 50 flights daily (both directions combined) could be a bit overkill, while yes it is great for connecting AS
: Interesting. Now that you mention it, at the time an AA 767-300 overnighted there on the ramp right next to the UA hardware.
: I want to say I remember reading on here that a flight such as "SFO-OAK" wouldn't be counted as a cycle because the aircraft wouldn't be pressurized
: I flew the 8am flight on a Monday in December. I was so surprised with only 20 people on-board. At least I had the outlier experience
: The BWI-PHL Airbus service comes to mind. A319s regularly fly the route and I think I've seen A321s on the route sometimes too. That is a lot of metal
: There's maybe 3 or 4 flights a day that go out >75% full. Some of them routinely go out with less than 5 pax, and all the flights are on Dash 8s (
: AA has 4 B772s that spend all day on the ground at EZE. During the Southern Winter, AA operates MIA-MVD 3x weekly and MIA-EZE-MVD 4x weekly. AA Bueno
: I don't want to take this thread off-topic, so this is merely to point to a reference. The "it costs too much to park a plane overnight at X airport"