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Annoyed With AC  
User currently offlinecanadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

So, I'm sitting here in YEG, just arriving from YWG on Air Canada Jazz. My dad was connecting to YYC on the 18:00 flight, but I was connecting on the 19:30. As I get off the airplane, I walk up to Gate agent and ask if I can be switched to the 18:00 with my dad.

The gate agent, looks at my ticket and says 'That's a Tango fare... You'll have to pay $150 + tax to do that. And the flight is full.' $150?!?!!? I could have bought a seperate ticket, last night, for $139!!!! Anyways, I say forget it.

A few minutes later my dad boards, and I wait by the gate to see if there are any empty seats...Sure enough, there are 3 that don't show up. I can hear the gate agent talking down to the plane, saying there are 40 on board. I ask one more time, 'I can take one of those seats and free up my seat on the 19:30...'

'Not unless you want to pay $150!' she responds. She promptly closes the flight and walks away!

I know that this is following the policy and the procedure, but isn't this a little too strict? You basically let the plane go with empty seats, knowing there was atleast 1 person (me) who would've taken one of them.

I guess it would hurt too much to think outside of the box....

*sigh* Now I get to walk around YEG for an hour and go supper. Not the worst fate in the world, but still, annoying...


Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

I am sorry but you read the rules before you decide to fly with AC they clearly states if you want to change your flight you paid 150...   

User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5674 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

Quoting ac033 (Reply 1):
I am sorry but you read the rules before you decide to fly with AC they clearly states if you want to change your flight you paid 150...

What you say is true, of course, BUT AC missed a chance to get good PR with a paying pax, at no cost to them. Seems a silly decision by AC.

Gemuser



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User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3662 times:
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If you wanted to get on the earlier flight then you should have booked it! No sympathy!

User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Just write them a letter, phrasing it nicely and succinctly. And put it in the mail. Can't hurt, and will accomplish more than posting on here.

User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3597 times:
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Why not ask them to put you on standby. I managed to do that on AC out of YHZ. Caught a 0730 flight instead of an 1130 flight and managed to avoid a massive snowstorm.


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User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 2):

What you say is true, of course, BUT AC missed a chance to get good PR with a paying pax, at no cost to them. Seems a silly decision by AC.

That is good idea... but despite how much passengers they handle everyday, if everybody comes in early and decide to make a change like this........ what is the point of reservation and booking


User currently offlinecanadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 5):
Why not ask them to put you on standby. I managed to do that on AC out of YHZ. Caught a 0730 flight instead of an 1130 flight and managed to avoid a massive snowstorm.

That is what I asked, and she laughed and said that the Tango Fare was $150 change fee...

The problem I have is that I do this all the time with other airlines. I've heard that airlines seats are like fruit at the market. Once the plane leaves, it's like throwing out all of the rotten fruit, cuz you can't sell it anymore. If it's empty, and somebody can take it....why not give it to them. Help me help you.

The way I always see it is I get off ,my flight, freeing up that seat to be potentially resold... Oh well.

I guess Air Canada doesn't have 'employee empowerment' environment like WJ... Could thing I fly home on WJ on Monday...



Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3552 times:
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Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 5):

Why not ask them to put you on standby. I managed to do that on AC out of YHZ. Caught a 0730 flight instead of an 1130 flight and managed to avoid a massive snowstorm.


It's because of the snowstorm that you were able to standby or it was your type of fare.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 2):
What you say is true, of course, BUT AC missed a chance to get good PR with a paying pax, at no cost to them. Seems a silly decision by AC.

No it was a good decision to stick to their fare rules & policies. How many times a day do you think people try to do this knowing that the fare they booked doesn't allow it.

Everyone wants to fly for nothing yet enjoy the perks of a full fare!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25383 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Even AC's higher Tango Plus fare doesn't permit same day airport standby on an earlier flight (except on Rapidair routes YYZ-YUL and YYZ-YOW where they're probably doing it to match Porter who permit it from YTZ (except not on their lowest most restrictive fare).

User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3503 times:
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Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 7):
I guess Air Canada doesn't have 'employee empowerment' environment like WJ... Could thing I fly home on WJ on Monday...

Try it on them, you pay a change fee to!

Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 7):
The problem I have is that I do this all the time with other airlines. I've heard that airlines seats are like fruit at the market. Once the plane leaves, it's like throwing out all of the rotten fruit, cuz you can't sell it anymore. If it's empty, and somebody can take it....why not give it to them. Help me help you.

The way I always see it is I get off ,my flight, freeing up that seat to be potentially resold... Oh well.

Then go fly those other airlines, you bought the ticket, you agreed to the terms & conditions, you knew you could't change flights, don't complained about it after the fact!


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 7):

The problem I have is that I do this all the time with other airlines. I've heard that airlines seats are like fruit at the market. Once the plane leaves, it's like throwing out all of the rotten fruit, cuz you can't sell it anymore. If it's empty, and somebody can take it....why not give it to them. Help me help you.

Same day standby policy is critical for a lot of business travelers too. Like the OP said it does not cost the airline anything but makes the passenger be able to work around his/her schedule based on last-minute circumstances. Which is what happened in this case - it's not like he booked this reservation trying to game the system.

AA (whose service I loathe in other respects) strikes the right balance in terms of standby policy - it allows its elite passengers (often the business-oriented ones) to standby for free, and regular passengers can do so for $25 IIRC. That's a win-win IMO - the passenger can get a more convenient schedule and the airline can profit from it (probably more so with volume than charging $150 where only a helpless person or a fool would pay that).

[Edited 2011-02-19 18:28:33]

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

I'm glad this gate agent followed the proper rules for the cheap (ie. Tango) fare, despite pressure from a passenger. The sometimes maddening murky rules of revenue management fall apart unless they are followed strictly.

Cudos to that gate agent!



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5674 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3245 times:

Quoting ac033 (Reply 6):

That is good idea... but despite how much passengers they handle everyday, if everybody comes in early and decide to make a change like this........ what is the point of reservation and booking

If they ONLY do it when there is no cost to the airline, what's the problem? QF/DJ do it all the time, I've even had AZ do it.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 12):
I'm glad this gate agent followed the proper rules for the cheap (ie. Tango) fare, despite pressure from a passenger. The sometimes maddening murky rules of revenue management fall apart unless they are followed strictly.

You're kidding! If the seats are vacant at time of departure, why not use it and gain some good will? Give the staff on the ground some authority to impress the customers. Of course management have to keep it under control at a higher level, but giving the workers authority is a proven management technique.

Gemuser



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User currently offlinejgw787 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 3239 times:

You get what you pay for...

User currently offlineTLG From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 3238 times:

On December 31, 2010 when connecting at ORD on UA I did exactly what the OP tried to do; no problem! I took an otherwise empty seat on an earlier flight, therefore freeing up my seat on the later flight. The only cost to UA was the new boarding pass. Makes perfect sense to me!

-TLG


User currently offlinecanadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 3235 times:

Quoting jgw787 (Reply 14):
You get what you pay for...

Obviously... But think of it in a different light. 5 minutes you have 10 empty seats that are about to expire. You can do nothing with them, but let them fly away for nothing...

If one were to put people from a later flight on these seats, the have the potential to sell a full fare sale on the later flight... If it doesn't sell (or allow an employee to go home, etc...), you've just given away something that brings in zero revenue for something that didn't bring in revenue. Break-even at worst...AC win at best.

It seems so much like hiding behind the rules... Such government-type thinking...



Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3231 times:
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Reread your original post and you stated the agent said the "flight was full". How could you get on the earlier flight anyway?

You then said you heard her talking to the flight and it had 10 open seats. How do you know she was talking about the same flight? Agents working Jazz flights are usually working more than one at the same time. If it was the same flight the seats may have been misconnects and by putting you on may have delayed the flight. It's easier to just close it up and send it. Better to have 1 annoyed passenger than 40!

What about checked baggage? Did you have any? If you got on the earlier flight then your not traveling with your bags. That's a no no!

I'd still like to know why you didn't just connect to the earlier flight in the first place when you made the reservation?


User currently offlinecanadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 17):
Reread your original post and you stated the agent said the "flight was full". How could you get on the earlier flight anyway?

It was, when I checked in YWG with the gate agent. When I got to YEG, just before they closed the flight, there was 40 on board. It was a Dash 8-300, which seats 50, so there were a number of no-shows.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 17):
You then said you heard her talking to the flight and it had 10 open seats. How do you know she was talking about the same flight? Agents working Jazz flights are usually working more than one at the same time. If it was the same flight the seats may have been misconnects and by putting you on may have delayed the flight. It's easier vto just close it up and send it. Better to have 1 annoyed passenger than 40!

It was the only flight loading at the time... YQU had already left, YWG was delayed for mech. Also, my dad, who was on the flight confirmed that there were 'a good number' of empty seats.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 17):
I'd still like to know why you didn't just connect to the earlier flight in the first place when you made the reservation?

I didn't make the reservation. My dad did, and I was trying to fix it.



Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4007 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3225 times:
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In my opinion, if you compare to most other carriers, AC goes out of its way to make sure passengers understand the various fees and features associated with each type of fare. If being able to change flight the same day without a fee is important, buy a Latitude fare. If it isn't important, buy a cheaper Tango or Tango Plus fare and either pay the fee or stick to your original plan...

Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 16):
If one were to put people from a later flight on these seats, the have the potential to sell a full fare sale on the later flight...
On paper, you're correct, but I'm going to go on a limb and suggest the yield management people have figured that for all the times when your scenario would take place in the real world, they still make more money sticking to the rules...


[Edited 2011-02-19 23:28:58]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

This is a classic case of airline stupidity probably due to the failure to give front line employees the ability to solve problems
or an incentive system gone bad.

I can understand that if the fare structure has a change penalty then you have to enforce it to make it work. Right off I see the change penalty mostly as a way to make your best customers hate you. But even if that's what they want to do, at the moment the flight is about to leave the equation changes. The change fee is about reservations and the airlines ability to maximize yield. At the end of boarding there is nothing more to be gained by flying empty seats. As someone pointed out, there is still a chance to sell seats on the later flight. A small one, but a nearly 100% profit one.

I had two experiences last month where airlines did much better.

I was booked on the late NZ LAX-AKL flight in business class. Some family members decided to fly with me, but they booked the flight that left 45 minutes earlier. I wanted to join them, but when I asked 2 months in advance the early flight was almost sold out. The change would have cost me a $1500. I told the family to hang out at the airport until I caught up.
I checked in at LAX 1 hour before the early flight and explained my problem. NZ said they did have one empty business seat, so they gave it to me. Cost them nothing. Made me like them a lot.

Later that month I was flying LAX-RNO on WN. I was booked non-stop. There was an earlier connecting flight but I'd rather wait for the non-stop. Due to WX, the incoming aircraft for my flight was delayed 90 minutes. Now the connecting flight looked good. I was already at the airport, so I called WN reservations and explained my problem. The agent put me on hold for 5 minutes, then told me she was checking with a supervisor. Their published policy is that changes are free if the delay is greater then 2 hours, but they gave the change for free anyway. Made me like WN even more.

I've had plenty of not so nice experiences on other airlines. I avoid them. I am a very good customer for those airlines I like.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4997 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

Quoting aklrno (Reply 20):
This is a classic case of airline stupidity probably due to the failure to give front line employees the ability to solve problems
or an incentive system gone bad.


One of the things Air Canada is continually trying to achieve is Consistency of Service. This case is a prime example.

What would happen if this agent did allow him on the flight, against the "rules". Great PR for an occasional traveler. Then the following week he asks again, only this time he is refused. He is mad! Why? Not because this agent is following the rules, but because the agent last week didn't ... only he doesn't see it that way.

Then, you get into the "well my neighbour's daughter's best friend was allowed to change flights last year ... why not me?"

The only way to avoid this, is to stick to the rules. Yes there are exceptions, and the agent does have the power to exercise those exceptions. And when it occurs, often they are asked to explain why they went outside the "rules", as everyone has an interest in keeping the product consistent.

Believe it or not, that is one of the (few) complaints I often hear about WestJet. Is that you never know if your flying experience that day will be a good one or a bad one, as their service varies from experience to experience.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

So your annoyed because you wanted AC to go against the ticket rules you agreed to when you brought your ticket and they said no.

No sympathy im afraid...


User currently offlinehamad From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2000, 1160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

in 2007 when i was premier with united airlines i had a connecting flight in DEN. i visited family in IAD, arrived at around 5 in the eveining, and accross my arrival gate a TED flight was about to depart to phoenix, i went to the agent and i said "I have a connecting flight o phoenix in two hours, is it possible to get on this one?" he asked me if i had any checked luggage, i said only my carry on as i was in DC for three days. he looked at the computer and said "I can get you going" and he told me if i had checked any bags he wouldn't be able to do it. i just didn't feel like staying at the airport for two hours just like that..


PHX - i miss spotting
User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 972 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

Quoting aklrno (Reply 20):
NZ said they did have one empty business seat, so they gave it to me. Cost them nothing. Made me like them a lot.

Their published policy is that changes are free if the delay is greater then 2 hours, but they gave the change for free anyway. Made me like WN even more.

I've had plenty of not so nice experiences on other airlines. I avoid them. I am a very good customer for those airlines I like.

Customer PR... something bean counters (as Neil pointed out) will spend the rest of their lives never understanding.




LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
25 LongHauler : Think of it another way ... what if YOU had paid extra for a fare that allows more flexibility? How would you feel if someone who had not paid that h
26 aklrno : I think you miss the point about reservations. I knew that I couldn't reserve that empty seat 2 months earlier without paying a lot of money. I chose
27 LongHauler : Actually, they do it all the time. Almost every flight I fly, Weight and Balance is adjusted at the last minute as several "Super Elites" are upgrade
28 gemuser : Then rewrite the rules! If consistancy is so important to you, then rewrite it appropriatly, so that you ALWAYS comply with a customers request, IF i
29 canadianpylon : That has to be taken with a grain of salt. If there was a list of pax waiting to do it, then status, ticket fare, and everything else should be taken
30 whiteguy : And if that was the situation then some pax would have been allowed to go on the earlier flight. Fact is that wasn't the situation!
31 LongHauler : Not important to me ... important to Air Canada. But with regard to your statement, you feel therefore an airline should give an Economy passenger a
32 PI4EVER : I believe gemuser and I were trained in the same school of Customer Service - the Customer isn't always right, but should always be a winner. I suspec
33 LongHauler : I do agree, and that is normally what happens, an empty seat rarely goes empty if it can be filled. But looking at your YYZ-YUL route for example, co
34 gemuser : I never said anything about upgrading, in fact I didn't even think about it, because that does cost the company something. I was referring to a pax h
35 canadianpylon : I agree... Many organizations, including government organizations, are being taught this mentality. I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Than
36 OP3000 : Most people who buy a flexible fare are more concerned with having to change the travel date or the entire itinerary. They are not going to be as pet
37 AR385 : His father was taking that flight. There were seats available in both flights. Any experienced gate agent I know would have given him the seat for fr
38 lhr380 : You sure about that! If they came to ask me, I would have looked at the fare, advsd any change fee aplicable on the fare and of course the difference
39 PI4EVER : Bingo! You not only contradict yourself but are inconsistent in handling the situation. Clearly a goodwill gesture to let this passenger accompany hi
40 AR385 : No, you are not mean, neither cruel. Just a gate agent showing no criteria and no concept of flexibility. The typical airline employee that exists in
41 whiteguy : No, this is a case of an employee knowing that management keeps track of this sort of stuff and would be hauled into office for not following the rul
42 AR385 : And airlines that do that, that are hard and unflexible and pointlessly make you spend money like the OP´s case are the ones that don´t last over t
43 Lucky727 : Two years ago, I was on an Aeroplan reward ticket flying LAX-YVR-YYZ, and at check-in at LAX, the agent offered to put me on the direct YYZ flight, wi
44 canadianpylon : I think the most important part of this anecdote is the 'Two years ago', because I had a similar experience about 3 years ago. I was flying from YDF(
45 whiteguy : Yes they are, they are legitimate reasons to move a pax to a different flight I.e. Misconnects, weather delays.... Walking up and asking to get on an
46 OP3000 : Who said it would have involved a delay? And was he traveling with a bag - AFAIK he never said he was. It is interesting to see the perspective that
47 canadianpylon : I had my carry on, so I could have just walked on to the plane. Hence why I don't check baggage, and in this case, didn't. I apologize for not making
48 lhr380 : Why did they book different flights? Don't blame the agent, she/he followed the rules and the customer did not like the answer they got so complained
49 gemuser : Because you would gain your company GOODWILL with a paying customer at NO cost to your company. Why is this so hard to understand? If it was going to
50 AR385 : Aaaaand I rest my case.
51 aklrno : I've had airlines move me to an earlier flight even when I haven't asked. A few months ago I was flying CHC-AKL and due to a few lucky breaks i ended
52 OP3000 : Yes. Same day upgrades are free for elites on AA (among other majors). I am executive platinum now but even when I had no elite status a few years ba
53 lhr380 : Then why have rules for anything if people just expect them not to be followed or expect them to be broken! Why buy something if your not going to re
54 whiteguy : Just because a pax is entered into the flight on the computer doesn't magically put them in their seat on the airplane. Once they are boarded it take
55 Post contains images lhr380 : Can not agree more.
56 hamad : At least the original poster asked to change the time to an earlier time and get the same product. Its when some passengers have booked for a specific
57 Quokka : Yes and sometimes without being asked. I once received a complimentary upgrade on a connection from DXB - PER. I don't know the reason as I was so de
58 hamad : my assumption is that the flight was over sold. they usually do that in an overbooked situation, but what they do is they start with the frequent fli
59 gemuser : The key word here is "expect". What I'm talking about, the unexpected freeing up of a seat that just happens to coincide with the customers needs/pre
60 Post contains links OP3000 : See, right there you're showing the typical customer-loathing attitude that highly successful service organizations rarely have. Call it the "custome
61 lhr380 : Excuse me! I don't loath customers in my job (Some of them I do when they are shouting and swearing at me becuase they have missed a flight) Im there
62 Viscount724 : Not true for many (probably most) low-cost carriers.
63 OP3000 : Yeah I was not referring to you, but to the comments made by the other poster. I'm not going to post anymore on this topic since by now it is a dead
64 blueflyer : I'm not associated with AC in any shape or form other than being a customer. I however happen to believe that when the rules say A, a passenger has n
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