BrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 598 posts, RR: 5 Posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4775 times:
This thread contains a simple, non professional analysis of (eastbound) North Atlantic flights for an arbitrary day of the Summer 2011 schedule. The day chosen is Tuesday, July 5, 2011.
Disclaimer
In this thread, a North Atlantic flight is arbitrarily defined as a flight originating from one country from the 'West' country list, and arriving in one country from the 'East' country list. For multiple stops flights, only the 'transatlantic' portion is considered. ONLY EASTBOUND FLIGHTS ARE CONSIDERED IN THIS THREAD.
'West' countries : Anguilla, Antigua & Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Cayman Islands, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Martinique, Mexico, Montserrat, Netherlands Antilles, Nicaragua, Panama, St Kitts & Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent & the Grenadines, Trinidad & Tobago, USA (including Puerto Rico), Turks & Caicos Islands, US Virgin Islands.
Overseas territories/regions are considered as separate countries (e.g. Guadeloupe, Martinique). Although not correct, 'Netherlands Antilles' include Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and St Maarten for simplification.
I tried to list all North Atlantic flights operating on July 5, 2011. I don't mean to have them all, especially for charter-like airlines. You are welcome to indicate missing flights. By chosing that particular day, some flights operating on a less than weekly basis are NOT included (e.g. CUN-LGW(BA), KIN-LGW(BA), LAX-MAD(IB),MEX-LHR(BA), MBJ-LGW(BA), YUL-AMM(RJ), PTY-MAD(IB), PUJ-LGW(BA), SJU-LGW(BA), SDQ-MAD(IB), DFW-FRA(LH), EWR-OPO(TP), EWR-WAW(LO), JFK-SNN(EI), MIA-DUS(LH), ORD-AMS(UA), ORD-BRU(UA), YUL-ATH(AC), YUL-BCN(AC), YYZ-ATH(AC), YYZ-IST(TK), YHZ-KEF(FI), ...). Also, some airlines operate radically different schedules depending on the day of the week (e.g. most charter airlines, Air Transat).
The number of seats offered is based on seat plans published by airlines / other websites. This figure is approximate because different cabin configurations can exist for a single aicraft/airline combination, and because airlines do not always indicate the exact version of the aircraft used (e.g. A330-200 or A330-300).
> Total North Atlantic eastbound flights : 554
> Total North Atlantic eastbound seats offered : 145.860
The opening post of this thread is divided in :
Opening post :
This introduction / disclaimer
Reply 1 :
A. Top 30 departure METRO AREAS by seats offered
B. Top 30 departure AIRPORTS by seats offered
C. Top 30 destination METRO AREAS by seats offered
D. Top 30 destination AIRPORTS by seats offered
E. Top 30 eastbound city (metro areas) pairs by seats offered
F. Top 20 airlines by seats offered
G. Eastbound seats offered by global alliance
H. Eastbound seats offered by departure country
I. Eastbound seats offered by destination country
J. Top 30 eastbound country pairs by seats offered
Reply 2 :
K. Top 30 departure METRO AREAS by flights offered
L. Top 30 departure AIRPORTS by flights offered
M. Top 30 destination METRO AREAS by flights offered
N. Top 30 destination AIRPORTS by flights offered
O. Top 30 eastbound city (metro areas) pairs by flights offered
P. Top 20 airlines by flights offered
Q. Eastbound flights offered by global alliance
R. Eastbound flights offered by aircraft generic type
S. Eastbound flights offered by departure country
T. Eastbound flights offered by destination country
U. Top 30 eastbound country pairs by flights offered
Reply 3 :
Trivia
I would have liked to add graphs and to analyze the data a bit more, but I don't have time to do that now. I hope you'll find reading those numbers interesting. I'm looking forward for your comments/discussions.
And to finish, a word about presentation : because of the way A.net processes the text in the posts, my data are not correctly aligned (unless I use HTML tables, but I don't have time now). I hope it's still easily readable. Also, there were some problems with the way A.net prepares the HTML code for the airport/airline code tooltips, I am forced to put extra spaces in some airlines / airport codes (e.g. AA, UA, FCO, ...).
1 D L 74
2 BA 53
3 C O 44
4 A A 39
5 LH 35
6 AF 34
7 AC 31
8 U A 28
9 US 24
10 VS 19
11 KL 18
12 TS 18
13 IB 13
14 LX 10
15 AZ 8
16 EI 7
17 FI 7
18 LY 6
19 MT 6
20 SK 6
Q. Eastbound flights offered by global alliance
1 Star Alliance 196
2 SkyTeam 144
3 OneWorld 113
4 (no alliance) 101
R. Eastbound flights offered by aircraft generic type
BrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 598 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4755 times:
Trivia
Of the 554 flights scheduled to operate on that particular day, 10 are full daylight flights. 9 out of these 10 have LHR as destination. All other flights are redeyes. List of daylight flights sorted by local departure time :
EWR LHR VS 18 08:00
JFK LHR BA 178 08:00
BOS LHR BA 238 08:15
YUL CMN AT 209 08:30
BOS LHR A A 156 08:50
YYZ LHR AC 868 08:50
ORD LHR A A 90 08:55
EWR LHR C O 18 09:00
JFK LHR A A 142 09:30
IAD LHR U A 922 09:38
Note that two other flights depart before noon (local time), but don't arrive before the next day :
YVR FRA TS348 11:15
DTW AMM RJ268 11:20
The following airports have only one North Atlantic departure on that day :
ANU (BA to LGW)
A U A (TOM to LGW)
BDA (BA to LGW)
BON (KL to AMS)
BWI (BA to LHR)
CVG (DL to CDG)
FLL (DE to FRA)
GND (BA to LHR)
HOG (MT to LGW)
MBJ (VS to LGW)
MEM (DL to AMS)
NAS (BA to LHR)
PDX (DL to AMS)
PHX (BA to LHR)
POP (DE to FRA)
RDU (AA to LHR)
RSW (AB to DUS)
SAL (IB to MAD)
SJO (IB to MAD)
SJU (IB to MAD)
SLC (DL to CDG)
SXM (AF to CDG)
TPA (BA to LGW)
VRA (UN to DME)
YHZ (AC to LHR)
YQB (TS to CDG)
YYT (AC to LHR)
All flights are operated by aircraft at least the size of a 757, except the following flights :
It is possible that these 2 airports have more available seats to Europe than to the Americas which would be quite unusual for a North American airport.
goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1672 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4393 times:
Very impressive thread !!! Thanks a lot
Quote: All flights are operated by an airline from one of the countries involved in the country pair, except the following flights :
LAX CDG TN 8
well, TN is a French airline (French Polynesia is a French overseas territory)
Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 4): It is possible that these 2 airports have more available seats to Europe than to the Americas which would be quite unusual for a North American airport.
Yes. FDF (Martinique) and PTP (Guadeloupe) receive very few American tourists but receive tons of Metropolitan French tourists + an important ethnic traffic between metro France and these 2 French overseas departments.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18832 posts, RR: 64 Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4224 times:
Quoting BrusselsSouth (Thread starter): This thread contains a simple, non professional analysis of (eastbound) North Atlantic flights for an arbitrary day of the Summer 2011 schedule.
I knew NYC-TLV was a popular/lucrative route, but never realized it topped LAX-LON in number of seats offered, when you consider that there are 8 nonstops per day offered by 5 airlines on the LAX-LON route in the summer months. NYC-TLV certainly has an impressive schedule (though I'm not sure if all are daily flights?).
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1190 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4223 times:
Very interesting, but um, is your girlfriend out of town or something?
Please, PLEASE don't forget SAN's little addition to the mix! We may be at the end of a dirt road (or runway) but we will soon have our very own BA 777! I can hardly stand the excitement of it all.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2299 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4100 times:
Let's list the North American cities who have had non-stops to Europe but no longer do.
As mentioned, SAN is soon to come off this list with the reinstatement of SAN-LHR.
Once had it but not currently:
PIT (not sure the status of the DL PIT-CDG flight) - a number of US flights.
BDL - the NW flight to AMS
STL - a number of TW flights, last being AA to LGW after the takeover
BNA - AA to LGW
SJC - AA's short lived flight to CDG
OAK - Corsair or another holiday carrier went into there at one time
CLE - CO to LGW and I think CDG for one season, IIRC
MSY - several destinations on the original National Airlines
BrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 598 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3866 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5): Doesn't SAN also have only one North Atlantic departure a day? I'm referring to the reinstatement of SAN-LHR.
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 8): Please, PLEASE don't forget SAN's little addition to the mix! We may be at the end of a dirt road (or runway) but we will soon have our very own BA 777! I can hardly stand the excitement of it all.
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9): As mentioned, SAN is soon to come off this list with the reinstatement of SAN-LHR.
Thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about that one :
SAN LHR BA272 Dep 20:05 Equip. 772 (let's assume 229 seats).
Note that this does not change anything to the above rankings.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7): Amazing, the 767 is still used on 40% more flights than the next most-popular TATL aircraft.
Note that if we consider A330/A340 as a single aircraft family, then that family would be on top of the ranking (A330/340 : 158 - B767 : 145).
Quoting goldorak (Reply 6): well, TN is a French airline (French Polynesia is a French overseas territory)
You're right. I was basing myself on the same principle as for Guadeloupe and Martinique, considering overseas territories as separate coutries. Of course, technically, you're right.
Quoting goldorak (Reply 6): Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 4):
It is possible that these 2 airports have more available seats to Europe than to the Americas which would be quite unusual for a North American airport.
Yes. FDF (Martinique) and PTP (Guadeloupe) receive very few American tourists but receive tons of Metropolitan French tourists + an important ethnic traffic between metro France and these 2 French overseas departments.
Absolutely. And to add to what goldorak said, most aircraft on those routes have high density configs. For instance, AF flies so called 'COI' (Caraïbes - Océan Indien / Caribbean - Indian Ocean) with no less than 472 seats (no first class) on those routes. Corsairfly uses high density 744s with 582 seats.
Another trivia : all (4) A380 north atlantic flights on that day :
IAD CDG AF 39 16:40
JFK FRA LH 401 15:40
SFO FRA LH 455 14:40
YUL CDG AF 347 19:55
It's interesting to note that none of those flights (AF : 538 seats / LH 526 seats) have more seats than the Corsairfly 744 mentioned above.
Thank you all for your comments, keep them coming.
BNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 349 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3799 times:
Quoting BrusselsSouth (Reply 10): Quoting goldorak (Reply 6):
Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 4):
It is possible that these 2 airports have more available seats to Europe than to the Americas which would be quite unusual for a North American airport.
Yes. FDF (Martinique) and PTP (Guadeloupe) receive very few American tourists but receive tons of Metropolitan French tourists + an important ethnic traffic between metro France and these 2 French overseas departments.
Absolutely. And to add to what goldorak said, most aircraft on those routes have high density configs. For instance, AF flies so called 'COI' (Caraïbes - Océan Indien / Caribbean - Indian Ocean) with no less than 472 seats (no first class) on those routes. Corsairfly uses high density 744s with 582 seats.
582 seats! Imagine if Corsairfly gets an A380 in the future!
Could there be any other North American airports (other than FDF and PTP) that have more available seats to Europe than to the Americas?
Some other observations from your analyis:
Related to metro areas, the top 3 destinations (LON, PAR, and FRA) combined have more available seats (about 74000) than the next 27 destinations combined (about 65000)!
However, on the North American side, it requires the top 5 metro areas (NYC, YYZ, CHI, WAS, YUL) combined (about 71000) to top the next 25 departure metro areas combined (about 65000).
There are more available seats to Switzerland (4856) than Turkey, Jordan, Morocco, Senegal, Egypt, and Algeria combined (4321)!
BrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 598 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3788 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9): Let's list the North American cities who have had non-stops to Europe but no longer do.
[...]
Did I miss any?
YHM (Hamilton, ON, Canada) was served between 2007 and 2009 by Flyglobespan from London (LGW ?), and possibly other UK regional airports.
FlyCentralEurope.com (operated by Air Italy) is supposed to start (less than daily) services from YHM to PRG, KRK and BUD at the end of May (and also from ORD to KRK for that matter). I don't know the status of those, though.
Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 11): Related to metro areas, the top 3 destinations (LON, PAR, and FRA) combined have more available seats (about 74000) than the next 27 destinations combined (about 65000)!
Indeed, with London being a long shot from the second (Paris), seats or flights wise. The UK in general is a solid first for north atlantic 'east' destinations.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18832 posts, RR: 64 Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3740 times:
It is interesting that IAH is able to support 3 "Big 3" Gulf flights on that day (2 EK and 1 QR) yet only has 12 "North Atlantic" (as defined in this thread) flights on that day. By comparison, NYC has 4 nonstop "Big 3" Gulf flights (2 EK, 1 EY, 1 QR) that day yet has 156 "North Atlantic" flights.
BrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 598 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3588 times:
Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 14):
It is interesting that IAH is able to support 3 "Big 3" Gulf flights on that day (2 EK and 1 QR) yet only has 12 "North Atlantic" (as defined in this thread) flights on that day. By comparison, NYC has 4 nonstop "Big 3" Gulf flights (2 EK, 1 EY, 1 QR) that day yet has 156 "North Atlantic" flights.
I guess the reasons could be :
1. Larger point-to-point (or point-to-region for that matter) traffic for oil companies between Houston and the Middle East, hence the relatively large presence of Gulf carriers in Houston.
2. NYC has an ideal location for transatlantic flights : relatively short hop across the pond, and good location as a connecting point for virtually every connection within the US. Connecting at IAH makes less sense for destinations East of Texas, which includes many major US cities.
3. The O/D market between NYC and Europe is probably much larger than Houston-Europe.
BNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 349 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3470 times:
Is the following a somewhat accurate list of "East" airports that have only one North Atlantic arrival on the following day (July 6th)?:
AGP (DL from JFK)
ALG (AH from YUL)
BFS (CO from EWR)
BHX (CO from EWR)
BOD (TS from YUL)
CAI (MS from JFK)
EXT (TS from YYZ)
HAM (CO from EWR)
NAP (IG from JFK)
NCE (DL from JFK)
PRG (DL from JFK)
goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1672 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3454 times:
Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 11): Could there be any other North American airports (other than FDF and PTP) that have more available seats to Europe than to the Americas?
If you have the figures, I would be curious to see data for YUL-Europe (and particularly France) versus YUL-USA.
Again, thanks a lot for this thread
BrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 598 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3398 times:
Quoting goldorak (Reply 17): If you have the figures, I would be curious to see data for YUL-Europe (and particularly France) versus YUL-USA
Here you go :
On that particular day :
- YUL - Europe : 25 flights / 6634 seats
- YUL - France : 8 flights / 2385 seats
- YUL - USA : 92 flights / 6474 seats
What do we see ?
- More seats to Europe from YUL, than to the US, but it's a close call.
- France accounts for roughly one third of all European flights from YUL (seats and flights).
- Most YUL to US flights are operated by regional jets. We have an average of 70 seats per flight to the US, versus 265 seats per flight to Europe.
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