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What If 9/11 Never Happened?  
User currently onlineDAL763ER From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 488 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3803 times:
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I was watching the Flight 93 movie for the first time today and started wondering - what if 9/11 never happened? I was 10 years old when it happened so don't have much of an idea of what the world was like before then, especially the aviation world. I remember I was at home in Romania and was watching the events unfold live on CNN. I thought it was unreal.

So does anyone have an idea of what may be different at this point if September 11th, 2001 was the clear day it was supposed to be? I'm talking about the airline industry and the world in general.

I know this has been asked in the past, but the latest thread was in 2007 and I'm sure people have changed their minds about things since then.


Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7482 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Quoting DAL763ER (Thread starter):
I know this has been asked in the past, but the latest thread was in 2007 and I'm sure people have changed their minds about things since then.

Although not aviation-related per say but had 9/11 not happened; OBL (or UBL) would likely be still alive.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3767 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

I think that some older generation aircraft would have been retired a bit later. For example the 727 fleets in the USA disappeared after 9/11 because there was a decline in flights and the old 727 were first to be parked and ultimately replaced, also fuel went up after 9/11 so most older planes were becoming too expensive to operate.

But what can you say, what if this, what if that, maybe without 9/11 something even bigger and more terrible would have happened 1 year later.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineTan1mill From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Had 9/11 not happened I probably wouldn't be molested every time I go through airport security. (Calm down TSA, it's just a playful joke)


Love many, Trust few, Always paddle your own canoe.
User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1537 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Cockpit visits during cruise would probably still be possible  


Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

Well if 9/11 hadn't happened traveling would be a lot more enjoyable.

1. You can bring water/soda without having to adhere to a limit or having it put in one of those horrible plastic bags that are a total pain in the ass to get open.

2. If you want someone to touch your private parts you would not be served at an airport.

3. If you need a free X-ray you will have to go to a hospital instead of visiting the TSA.

4. People with beards would not be "randomly" selected for additional screening.

5. People would not be scared of everything and anything.

6. The patriot act would not exist.

7. Saddam would still be in power.

8. Osama would still have both his eyes.

9. Guantanamo would be just another unknown US military base.

10. It would have saved us from a lot of horrible movies.

11. The US government would not be asking for my European bank records.

12. I would still be filling in the stupid immigration form with question 14: Are you planning to undertaken any terrorist activities during your stay in the United States of America. yes/no (stupidest question I ever read on an immigration form)

13. Child molesters would still be using the age old line of "say hello to my little friend" in stead of "I am gonna have to search you"

14. Pakistan would still be just another country in the middle east.

15. A lot of civilian and military people would not have lost their lives.

16. really to much to mention.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7482 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
1. You can bring water/soda without having to adhere to a limit or having it put in one of those horrible plastic bags that are a total pain in the ass to get open.

That ban was in response to a terror plot target US-bound airliners from Europe in early August 2006. From 9/13/01 through 7/06, there was no liquid restriction/ban of sorts in effect.

Here's a few others (some positive/some negative):

1. Richard Reid might have been successful in blowing up AA63 in December 2001 because passengers may not have been on their personal 'high alert' mode.

2. Lockers at ALL major airports would still be around.

3. One would not need a boarding pass to go to the gate.

4. The likelihood of being harassed by police for taking pictures of aircraft while parked or even just watching planes land/take off would be significantly less.

5. Al Gore would have likely rematched President Bush in 2004. IMHO, his ambitions for a rematch all but evaporated on 9/11/01.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
I think that some older generation aircraft would have been retired a bit later. For example the 727 fleets in the USA disappeared after 9/11 because there was a decline in flights and the old 727 were first to be parked and ultimately replaced, also fuel went up after 9/11 so most older planes were becoming too expensive to operate.

Might have been retired a bit later
would be more accurate. One needs to keep in mind that airlines were already retiring or had plans to retire some of their older aircraft BEFORE 9/11/01. As a matter of fact, DL retired its L1011s that preceeding summer and US retired its remaining DC-9s just 3 weeks prior to 9/11/01. US' plans to retire their MD-80s in April 2002 were already set in place prior to 9/11/01 as well.

While AA and UA retired their 727s around that time (again that might've happened anyway); DL and NW continued to fly their 727s well into 2003.

The other issue w/727s that lead to their retirement was not just because of age and fuel burn but for its 3-man cockpit configuration. Its newer successor/rivals (738 and A320) had a 2-man cockpit configuration. Such configuration meant reduced crew operating costs and was becoming more commonplace in the industry. This was also the reason why the L1011s and DC-10s were retired (from commercial passenger services) as well.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
That ban was in response to a terror plot target US-bound airliners from Europe in early August 2006. From 9/13/01 through 7/06, there was no liquid restriction/ban of sorts in effect.

Damn, you are right, feels like that rule has been around a lot longer though.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
While AA and UA retired their 727s around that time (again that might've happened anyway); DL and NW continued to fly their 727s well into 2003.

CO would have kept their DC-10s until 2004 as well.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5968 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3415 times:
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Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):

That ban was in response to a terror plot target US-bound airliners from Europe in early August 2006. From 9/13/01 through 7/06, there was no liquid restriction/ban of sorts in effect.


It was kind of odd that I flew on 9-10-01 and the day before the liquid ban went into effect.

If 9-11 never happened STL might still be a busy airport. Of course TWA would still be gone, but the draw down of AA at STL may never have happened because without 9-11 the drop in air travel would never have happened.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
One would not need a boarding pass to go to the gate


That might have come back anyway. I know there was a time in the 1980s that you needed a boarding pass to get to the gates (at least at DEN) but the rules were relaxed.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
But what can you say, what if this, what if that, maybe without 9/11 something even bigger and more terrible would have happened 1 year later.


I agree... eventually something big would have happened. Terrorism and aircraft had been together since the 1960s and eventually a terrible act was bound to happen.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineYYZflyer From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3642 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
2. I would still be filling in the stupid immigration form with question 14: Are you planning to undertaken any terrorist activities during your stay in the United States of America. yes/no (stupidest question I ever read on an immigration form)

WTF?? That's the dumbest immigration question I've ever heard.  

I don't think security would be as tight in the US.
Passengers might not be as willing to try and fight back against hijackers.



Avoid hangovers, stay drunk.
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7482 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 8):
CO would have kept their DC-10s until 2004 as well.

I don't think so. The 764 was intentionally launched as a replacement for CO's DC-10s and DL's L1011s & MD-11s. CO took delivery of their first 764 in 8/29/00 and went in service on 9/14/00; roughly a year before 9/11/01.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767family/background.html



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Coupla things - I thought 727's were retired in the U.S. in 2000 because they didn't meet the Stage III noise reduction requirements without expensive hushkitting, and - I had presumed - that airlines would deem it more sensible to replace them with more ecomanomical aircraft rather than spend money on aging, less fuel-efficient, 3-person-crew-requiring aircraft.

And I never really did understand the point of requiring boarding passes to get past security; especially considering that the hijackers had tickets. I suppose maybe it is to keep the concourses as uncrowded as possible, in case there ever is a need to take action.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 4):
Cockpit visits during cruise would probably still be possible

They are absolutely still possible! Just...not really in any developed countries  
Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
People would not be scared of everything and anything.

Nah, that was around well before 9/11.

Quoting bj87 (Reply 5):
Pakistan would still be just another country in the middle east.

Did 9/11 shift some continental plates?  
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):

That ban was in response to a terror plot target US-bound airliners from Europe in early August 2006. From 9/13/01 through 7/06, there was no liquid restriction/ban of sorts in effect.

  

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
Richard Reid might have been successful in blowing up AA63 in December 2001 because passengers may not have been on their personal 'high alert' mode.

Very interesting one. And then, we might be in the same place anyways.


User currently offlineNorthwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

If 9/11 never happened, some other terrorist act involving airliners would have [successfully] taken place since then:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
terror plot target US-bound airliners from Europe in early August 2006

Probably would have been successful.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
Richard Reid might have been successful in blowing up AA63 in December 2001

Again, probably successful.

Add to that the underwear bomber in 2009, and the "printer bombs" on cargo airplanes from late 2010.


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