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What Is Wrong At QF?  
User currently onlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 761 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

It seems to me that all you hear about QF lately is negative and pointless phrases that will never boost morale surrounding their future even coming from their own management to quote Alan Joyce about QF international "dying". Any ideas on what the real future holds and when this endless negativity will end. Sometimes you would think that QF were the only airline hit by the economic crisis.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5060 times:

Alan Joyce is what's wrong.

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4181 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

So, its nothing to do with the staff who cant accept the competitive reality, the mechanics playing silly buggers, or the multitude of competing airlines eating away at QF's Kangaroo route forte with better products and fewer stops?


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4929 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

Quoting BA174 (Thread starter):

Hmm, let's begin at the top...
Firstly, when the top job at QF was handed over to Mr Joyce that was one of greatest mistakes made by the board... John Borgetti was the man for the top job & his proving it he was the man for the job with his brilliant bright ideas being rolled out at VA...
Secondly, I don't QF rolling out any new enhanced products on the international routes except for brand NEW A380s with a flat sky bed... How many years since the Sky bed was introduced? 10 years? I haven't anything NEW since then ( besides premium Y/C)...
QF need to pull their finger out of the rear end and come up with new and improved products to compete with carriers of the likes of EK, SQ, TG, EY,CX, QR, etc...
QF will continue to lose out if they don't improve their product full stop...
As for the employees, their fed up with the management attitude when it comes to cost cutting... its about quality work not quantity... When maintenance was in house how many mishaps did we hear about...? Probably count how many on one hand...
Wake-up Mr Joyce, JetStar isn't the answer!!!

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineairnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 2):
So, its nothing to do with the staff who cant accept the competitive reality, the mechanics playing silly buggers, or the multitude of competing airlines eating away at QF's Kangaroo route forte with better products and fewer stops?

Shamrock...You are too quick to read what managers/Reporters tell you!!!

I will not deny that we at Qantas are under a very competitive landscape, however, Qantas has clearly lost its way...it has no idea who it is, who it wants to attract, and is schizoprenic in its brand images potrayed to crew....Many donot know who or what we are anymore...ie are we Low-cost, full-service or a top 10 premium airline...where does this stem from??? The top...CEO, board members and the constant cost cutting of services onboard and on the ground is very clear.

Shamrock...i again can understand we need to save money to compete against these carriers, however, SQ/CX are paid very well just like QANTAS QAL contracts, and ill have you know, the new crew on the A380 and AKL/LHR based cabin crew make nowhere near as much money as the SQ and CX cabin crews in allowances and salary...i know hard to believe by what you are made to read in newspapers, and what management tell you but it is the truth. We are also more productive and work 30 more flying hours than their crews.
EK/QR/EY on the other hand are different...they are worked to the bone, pay is not as good, and allowances are slack...this is who the company can compare us to...

The problem with Qantas is so big only people who work within the airline would understand and know, here are a few...
-Poor leadership
-Inabilities to gain trust from its staff...ALL staff that is...
-No intiative
-No vision
-Brand image amongst public
-Network
-Shareholders First, Safety Second, customer Third, staff last.

-Poor Leadership
I had a alot of respect for Mr Joyce when he started (and up until 5 days ago), as did many staff, we all were happy for a change, fresh new approach, and the seemingly change of tactics of putting our customers first. However, things have not changed, and infact got worse...decisions have been made that have contradicted every single thing he said he would do when he started the top job at Qantas. More cost cutting, more rubbishing our product onboard, changing of 'premium' products to rubbish...alienating more clients in areas, alienating our frequent flyers, staff, and 'bagging' the airline (especially) the International division and any chance he gets. Please tell me why a CEO would talk down their airline at a world wide event...It makes no sense and this is when i lost all respect for him and what he is doing. Also the blatant lies he is telling the public about Pilots, Cabin crew, Ground Staff and engineers...

-Inability to gain trust from Staff
Clearly stated by the growing number of non engaged employees within the airline. The recent Engagement survey has shown now, more than ever, more crew are disengaged, and wouldnot even fly with their own airline if they ahd a choice or recommend them to family and friends. However, the only positive gain was Safety procedures at the airline, where every division (except engineering and Cabin crew- as they see the defects) voted agreed.

-No initiative
Qantas is very reactive not pro active...which is clearly shown with the deployment of skybeds across the tasman full time. If we had a fantastic product we would not be worrying about Virigin Australia competing against us!! Im finally glad that we have compitition as now, hopefully they will improve the diabollical product we have (however, my recent Perth shuttle confirms to me its half-arsed yet agin...not enough entrees for passengers in business class, skybeds broken, ife failure, lights on disco mode...Economy trays are now Quarter size with only Main meal, cheese and cracker, dairy milk chocolate bar...thats it)...terrible.

-No vision
Again this falls under the initiative part...think future...not NOW...think who we are as an airline, we are Australian, mutli cultured society...we are laidback, humble people, we care and we take interest in what people have to say...this is what we currently are not!!!

-Brand image amongst public
Alot to do with Media however...
This is the biggest problem Qantas faces, and people have lost all hope in the brand and who it is.
Domestic flying is poor...depending when you fly and aircrafts are old (which is finally getting adressed however again, if we had vision, this would of been doen when we were making record profits, to remain competitive in the future)
International flying is poor...Product is old and tired, 4 crew to service 220 passengers (doesnt sound like much but with the amount of service it is....trays regularly sit their for 1hour plus), taking crew off aircrafts in First and Business, our high tier cabins, basically OVER PROMISING yet UNDER DELIVERING on most flights.
It doesnot help with what the CEO just said to the world either...who would want to fly an airline when it will not be invested in...

-Network
Need i say more, and yes i understand we are an end-of-line carrier.

-Shareholders first, Safety second, customers third, staff last
Wrong order...
Safety first
Customers second
Staff third
Shareholders last

Yes i klnow shareholders are the big beans, but if you look after the first three, it will fall into place for the shareholders. Currently the management believes cutting everything till theirs nothing more to cut (which they have hit) is putting the shareholders first...let me say its not in their best interest, but what do i know, a person who sepnds the most amount of time with our customers and hears what they say, works first class, sees the dissapointment and goes out of my way to ensure they are happy with what we have...
Whats interesting to note is Cabin crew and Pilots are the highest disengaged, yet have the highest customer satisfaction ratings amoungst the airline. As many tell us, we are the reason they come back to the airline...it would be very interesting if they gave us the tools and the product how different a beast Qantas would truly be.

I also do see some good things the company has bought in...
-4 options for meals in business/Snack options
-6 options for mains in first/Snack options
-Upgrading Y/C cabins of 2 class aircrafts seat covers to red...-OJD was just upgraded and toilets/galleys deep cleaned
-better communications to staff regarding issues etc...

I could continue to go on and on, but im not a whiner...ill go out and continue to do the best i possible can for this airline as i truly do want it to succeed...its fustrating, but my customers would never know...it has nothing to do with them at the end of the day...as many of the crews and people believe....its just a shame because their will now be customers left behind as we donot have enough people to make a significant impact on more customers...
Its the little things that make a huge impact from a journey of mediocre to incredible.

Cheers


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

Management is the problem at the moment, along with the senior public relations person.

However, this negative communications from management is probably calculated. They can close down Qantas mainline operations, dismiss all the mainline staff and make everything Jetstar.

The management needs to change. The wrong person got the top job, and you can see the results.

[Edited 2011-06-09 18:01:18]

User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

I'm going to post an expanded version of something I posted elsewhere..........

CURRENT FLAWS
1. Qantas is effectively the long-haul airline for Sydney, even though Australia is pretty decentralised, with Melbourne's outbound market practically as large as Sydney's, and with WA and Queensland the boom economies of Australia.

2. In spite of that, Qantas' long-haul network is not only Sydney-centric, but SYD is also a hugely inconvenient airport to make international-domestic transfers at.

3. The long-haul fleet has far, far too little Premium Economy capacity.

4. Jetstar offers nothing positive apart from a cheap and cheerful discount economy model. I flew "Business Class" HNL-SYD a couple of weeks ago and was horrified above all else by the alien crew - I expected Americans or Australians on a USA to Australia route, as did my Jewish neighbour when they treated him abruptly when he gave them back his bacon omelette.

WHAT IS WRONG LOOKING FORWARD
1) Alan Joyce clearly sees the future as Qantas or Jetstar. He seems incapable of understanding that you can lift your low cost arm's service levels towards mainline levels, just as Air New Zealand has integrated Freedom into Air New Zealand.

2) The fleet orders are all wrong. Everything is based around hub and spoke flying, but passengers don't like having to change between international and domestic at Heathrow and Sydney, and will fly a different carrier in order to avoid it. Blind Freddie could tell you that what Qantas needs is point-to-point services from BNE, MEL and PER to multiple centres in Asia, and North America on aircraft which basically have the economy capacity of a 737 plus a decent sized Premium Economy cabin and a small Business Class cabin. They don't need A380s or 74E aircraft and they probably need 77W, 77E and 77L aircraft more than they need 789 and 788 aircraft which may never have the range which Qantas is hoping for.

HOW QANTAS COULD THRIVE ON THE KANGAROO ROUTE

Qantas would wipe the floor with the Middle Eastern carriers if it flew from BNE, OOL, CNS, ADL and PER with a 250 seater (20 Business, 40 Premium Economy, 190 Economy) into an Asian hub and beyond into Heathrow (380) AND Gatwick AND Manchester AND Birmingham AND Newcastle AND Dublin AND Glasgow.

They could still operate A380s from SYD and MEL into the hub and onwards to LHR.

This Asian hub could also offer connecting flights around Asia, expanding the feed base further.

Almost all of us who travel beyond London at the origin or destination currently choose other carriers like Emirates, Etihad or Singapore Airlines because we refuse to transfer at LHR after we have tried it once. Qantas don't seem to want to learn that lesson. Additionally, most of us beyond SYD refuse to do an international-domestic transfer at SYD if we can fly another carrier and avoid it.

HOW QANTAS COULD THRIVE TO NORTH AMERICA

Qantas should also be flying the following routes:

Brisbane: PER-BNE-LAX daily (250 seater), San Francisco 3x weekly (250 seater, getting some feed from the PER flight), Honolulu 3 x weekly (250 seater)

Cairns: LAX daily (250 seater)

Sydney: SYD-LAX daily (250 seater), SYD-DFW daily (250 seater), SYD-SFO daily (250 seater), HNL daily (250 seater - no JQ), SYD-LAX-JFK daily via LAX (250 seater), SYD-YVR-ORD daily (250 seater)

Melbourne: LAX daily (250 seater), DFW daily (250 seater), SFO daily (250 seater), HNL 3x weekly (250 seater), SYD-LAX-JFK daily via LAX (250 seater), YVR 3x weekly (250 seater)

Adelaide: LAX daily (250 seater)

Too much North America travel on Qantas currently requires international-domestic transfers at Sydney (and vice versa). And many of us who have done that once fly Air New Zealand via AKL from that point onwards, for smoother and easier connections.

Furthermore, once Qantas is offering flights from Sydney to LAX (2), SFO, YVR, DFW, JFK and ORD daily, the need for A380s probably vanishes, especially as Brisbane and Melbourne passengers would not need to route via SYD unless terminating in LAX or ORD.

Qantas need to see that the choice is not Qantas v Jetstar. They need to move from a superjumbo hub model to point-to-point. And then they will clean up.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25328 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4499 times:
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Quoting BA174 (Thread starter):
Sometimes you would think that QF were the only airline hit by the economic crisis.

This is a chance for a lot of posters who don't run airlines to tell us how the airline should be run.  

As I see it, Qantas made one basic mistake - Jetstar - which has diluted, if not destroyed, an extraordinarily powerful brand.

Airline history is littered with failed examples of the airline within an airline concept - one or other usually gets hurt.

In this case, I have strong, subjective reasons for flying Qantas - I really do still call Australia home - and I have no reason at all to fly Jetstar, other than rock bottom price.

mariner

[Edited 2011-06-09 18:24:32]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4181 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

My experience of QF is unfriendly staff. I'm sorry, I dont mean to offend anyone, but thats the way it is. The product on long haul is fine generally, but accessing QF if you dont live in London or Frankfurt is not easy!

Also, can I point out that Dublin is Ireland, an independent republic, and not the UK as Koruman seems to think!  

I know that much can be pointed at management, but to blame them exclusively as the first reply did is ridiculous.

It takes the actions of many to produce a situation like the one QF finds itself in, and to blame one person is disingenous.



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User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
Qantas would wipe the floor with the Middle Eastern carriers if it flew from BNE, OOL, CNS, ADL and PER with a 250 seater (20 Business, 40 Premium Economy, 190 Economy) into an Asian hub and beyond into Heathrow (380) AND Gatwick AND Manchester AND Birmingham AND Newcastle AND Dublin AND Glasgow.

LHR, MAN, DUB and GLA yes - but LGW, BHX & NCL? why bother when you can instead operate FCO/MXP, ATH and CDG or AMS.

Qantas, in Europe, screws up because it relies on LHR and BA to get you anywhere else in continental Europe, and doesn't utilise AY for northern Europe, not RJ for the Middle East/Eastern European connections.

You're essentially advocating another UK/end-of-the-line business model which QF current does and is the primary reason why they give up the whole of continental Europe (except for FRA) to each and every other carrier that flies to both AU and Europe.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4929 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
My experience of QF is unfriendly staff. I'm sorry, I dont mean to offend anyone,

Blame the management and their unfair treatment of the staff for the so called unfriendly staff...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
My experience of QF is unfriendly staff.

All of them I encounter are great. But then I'm friendly to them as well, which probably helps a lot too. They are human beings too - not robots, so you treat the staff with some respect and courtesy as well. I see some travellers do not, who are grumpy and mean to the staff on planes - which is just the wrong way to be.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
I know that much can be pointed at management, but to blame them exclusively as the first reply did is ridiculous.

The boss should have been John Borghetti.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
It takes the actions of many to produce a situation like the one QF finds itself in, and to blame one person is disingenous.

Which is effectively what the senior management are doing - they place all the blame on staff, while excusing themselves of any blame. At the same time, the negative comments from all sides do nothing to engender confidence of the travelling public.

I'm surprised that a lady with the qualifications of Olivia Wirth cannot see that. Airing the dirty laundry in public is absolutely the worst thing that can happen at the moment, and all sides have to step back from the brink.

Fortunately, when the B787 arrives and the rest of the A380s arrive, things will be better - the older B747s and B767 aircraft can then be retired. The airline is not going to go bankrupt overnight - despite the doom-and-gloom predictions from some quarters. It'll still be here for some time to come. If it was really that desperate, they'd cancel all new aircraft orders...

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
Qantas would wipe the floor with the Middle Eastern carriers

A bit of quasi-government backing for QF, but only on routes where it competes against those airlines would be my evil idea.

[Edited 2011-06-09 18:53:28]

User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Personally I refuse to fly Qantas until both the management and staff show that they actually want a job and can act in a professional manner.
Once they display a sense of professionalism, and a wanting to provide a service to their individual capacity, then I will happily assist them by giving them my business.
My personal opinion is that the staff are acting like spoilt brats... time to grow up, high school is over... take some personal responsibility and act professionally. You are paid to do the job at the best of your ability, and the below quote is an example of why I have this opinion...

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 2):
So, its nothing to do with the staff who cant accept the competitive reality, the mechanics playing silly buggers
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
My experience of QF is unfriendly staff
Quoting EK413 (Reply 10):
Blame the management and their unfair treatment of the staff for the so called unfriendly staff..

No excuses...



What?
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4929 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 12):

I'll love to see you in the front role seat and deal management tactics in attempting to screw the staff every opportunity given...
Your probably speaking from your experience with the airline as a passenger, I speak from the other side of the table... QF staff take pride in their work & have demonstrated this during difficult times... I recall at one point staff accepted no pay increase during difficult economic times... ask the executives if they'll do the same, hang on GD screwed the airline and walked away with a sweat $11 million dollar bonus...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4181 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 11):
All of them I encounter are great. But then I'm friendly to them as well, which probably helps a lot too. They are human beings too - not robots, so you treat the staff with some respect and courtesy as well. I see some travellers do not, who are grumpy and mean to the staff on planes - which is just the wrong way to be.

Mate, I am also airline staff, so I would never treat any other colleague at any airline with anything but the utmost of respect and friendliness. Most often, as colleagues, that is reciprocated. But it wasnt at QF. And that's as a revenue passenger. I wont even go in to some of their practices when travelling on staff stand by tickets!

Quoting cpd (Reply 11):
Fortunately, when the B787 arrives and the rest of the A380s arrive, things will be better - the older B747s and B767 aircraft can then be retired. The airline is not going to go bankrupt overnight - despite the doom-and-gloom predictions from some quarters. It'll still be here for some time to come. If it was really that desperate, they'd cancel all new aircraft orders...

I believe that also to be the case, and I hope QF is brave and bold enough to do what needs to be done with these aircraft to regain a leadership position.

Quoting tayser (Reply 9):
LHR, MAN, DUB and GLA yes - but LGW, BHX & NCL? why bother when you can instead operate FCO/MXP, ATH and CDG or AMS.

Qantas, in Europe, screws up because it relies on LHR and BA to get you anywhere else in continental Europe, and doesn't utilise AY for northern Europe, not RJ for the Middle East/Eastern European connections.

You're essentially advocating another UK/end-of-the-line business model which QF current does and is the primary reason why they give up the whole of continental Europe (except for FRA) to each and every other carrier that flies to both AU and Europe.

Can I repeat- DUB is in the REPUBLIC of IRELAND - not the UK.

I'm starting to realise why QF staff might annoy me now - they dont recognise my country apparently!  
Quoting aerohottie (Reply 12):
Personally I refuse to fly Qantas until both the management and staff show that they actually want a job and can act in a professional manner.
Once they display a sense of professionalism, and a wanting to provide a service to their individual capacity, then I will happily assist them by giving them my business.
My personal opinion is that the staff are acting like spoilt brats... time to grow up, high school is over... take some personal responsibility and act professionally. You are paid to do the job at the best of your ability, and the below quote is an example of why I have this opinion...

Well said. Just because your management dont treat you well is no reason for you to ever treat your customer badly. Us rank and file generally dont have many kind words for management no matter who we work for, but we dont take it out on the ones who pay our wages.

Try this - flight from SYD to SIN/LHR delayed 12 hours due technical problem, which was known about 8 hours before departure.

- no attempt to contact passengers prior to flight
- no offer of day room accomodation despite a 12 hour delay
- no apology at check in and a general display of arrogance when civil and normal questions were asked.

This was during a week in 2008 during which several mechanical issues with the 747 fleet made Australian TV news headlines.

As I said, the product on long haul, especially the A380 is pretty good. I like the occasional dose of Aussie humour and welcome I get on board. It would just be nice if all or even a majority of the staff acted like that on board and not like arrogant primadonnas that so many of them seem to be.

And that, by the way, is NOT a comment on your nationality, or customer service standards, which are in general, excellent.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 13):
'll love to see you in the front role seat and deal management tactics in attempting to screw the staff every opportunity given...
Your probably speaking from your experience with the airline as a passenger, I speak from the other side of the table.

I have indeed been in that position... and for the record I worked across the aviation industry with an airline, airport, regulator and industry association... and yes, as you mention also as a paasenger. My previous comments stand.



What?
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7305 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4061 times:
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This thread is in the wrong forum and it's wrong like the clown that said there are QF pilots earning $500k/yr US. If SYD-LAX wasn't dominating revenue for QF they'd be dead in the water. That is what is wrong. NZ has the right idea dumping their 747 fleet for 777.   

User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 938 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
It takes the actions of many to produce a situation like the one QF finds itself in, and to blame one person is disingenous.



Well said Shamrock. This situation has been brewing for ten plus years, so you just can't blame one man who has been at the helm for three of them.

For me it just seems to be a blame game and I don't see this situation getting any better until such time people start taking responsibility for the way they behave and their actions. I was reading another thread and I was just horrified at what people were saying. I was thinking, boy I hope these attitudes aren't representative of all the staff.

At the end of the day hopefully compromise and common sense will prevail.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

I moved from New Zealand to Australia thirteen years ago and initially transferred my loyalty to Qantas.

I quickly switched it back when I found Qantas ground and cabin staff to be inflexible about the rule book, and inconsiderate to my needs (then) as someone who often travelled with small kids.

The problems with attitude come from the very top. Passengers are expected to accept either a Qantas or a Jetstar offering, and be grateful for it.

Qantas (not JQ) recently sold me a Business Class HNL-SYD-BNE Business Class ticket, using JQ for the first leg, but JQ don't offer connections between terminals for passengers or baggage and when I went to Qantas they refused to help me.

That's fine, but it reminded me not to buy tickets from any part of the Qantas group and not to ever buy an itinerary involving international-domestic transfers at SYD under any circumstances. Ever.

Qantas is a dysfunctional organisation with ignorant and incompetent management who are disconnected from the needs of both their staff and their passengers outside metropolitan Sydney. And consequently the staff behave badly and passengers from outside Sydney flock to EK, SQ and NZ in droves.

It would be easy to fix. But it won't be.

[Edited 2011-06-09 22:25:34]

User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 4):
I had a alot of respect for Mr Joyce when he started (and up until 5 days ago).

Mr Joyce has certainly appeared a lot more defensive than before. I want to respect the man, especially compared with Geoff Dixon. Better a mathematician than a marketer.   I wonder if he went to a Harvard Business course or if the board has been interfering too much. What has happened at Qantas seems to be reflected in many of Australia's most trusted brands. Some of it is a quest for short term shareholder value, but I believe there's more to it than that.

It's no longer about understanding a business, understanding your customers and the industry environment it operates in. The same generic business practices can apparently be applied anywhere. I wonder how much the stock analysts actually understand about the industries whose stocks they make recommendations on - does it matter if it's about short term profits anyway?

And either running these businesses (or working their way up to run them) are the same types of narcissistic psychopathic personalities. They are in it for the power, prestige and the competition with like souls. They can't understand things like staff working hard because they love their job, because they feel loyalty to the organisation or customer. Such concepts are alien to them and anything they don't understand is a threat. So they surround themselves with others of their ilk.

Now its become self-reinforcing across the spectrum of business.

Sell your company for many millions and you can boast about that "success" on your CV. Do deals with a big brand name - even better! Do the right thing and embark on a long term strategy? Well, how does that look when you want to run another corporation or serve on a different board in a few years' time?

I'm not accusing Alan Joyce of this, because I don't know the man, but there are likely to be many in Qantas who are.

Most employees don't have the opportunity to switch jobs in an instant without fear for their financial situation. Treat those staff like a disposable commodity and they'll treat you the same.

All of the above said I feel like I've been treated very well by Qantas and its employees. I've been writing a bit of an analysis of Qantas' situation in my head which I'll try to make live on this forum soon.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1587 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3718 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
It takes the actions of many to produce a situation like the one QF finds itself in, and to blame one person is disingenous

This is right but it is the role of the CEO to accept that the buck stops with him so QF's problems are his problems. It is also the role of the CEO to lead and sell and inculcate the corporate vision within an organisation and the current CEO is clearly failing here. Rather than getting the troops so they will do anything for him, he is achieving exactly the opposite. To say he is not a great leader is an understatement.

QF has many problems, some of their own making, some caused by geography.

Sydney-centricity has long been a criticism and airlines like EK and SQ probably rubbed their hands with glee when they saw how little QF did to address this.

The age of the fleet is an issue though some of this is more the blame of Boeing and Airbus than QF.

JQ is not necessarily a problem but equally it is not the solution. It's cost base means it has a place on leisure routes and VFR int'l routes but QF seems to think it is the best way to strip costs out of the business. This is poisoning the customer experience.

QF has made the right decision in removing First Class on new aircraft. They should probably get rid of it altogether. It is an expensive indulgence and distraction. There is great money to be made in offering a great J class and a great W product. They are nearly there. They should concentrate their efforts.

I don't know how DFW is going but it is a it of a textbook case in how not to launch a new product. SFO and LAX were both performing so it wasn't like they were eliminating a lossmaker. The ideal plane wasn't available yet. Why didn't they wait?

As a frequent domestic customer I am amazed how much the QF product has slipped. It is not only the tired 767s and 734s. It is the pathetic meals. They may as well charge like DJ. At least you know what you are going to get. It is also the state of the QF Club. Sure J class and Platinum get the Business lounge but the general QF Club is a zoo and basically an unpleasant place to be. Finally it is the staff. They don't seem to enjoy their jobs and this comes back to my original point.

It is the CEO who is responsible to lead and inspire....this ain't happening.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 4):
Wrong order...
Safety first
Customers second
Staff third
Shareholders last

Yes i klnow shareholders are the big beans, but if you look after the first three, it will fall into place for the shareholders. Currently the management believes cutting everything till theirs nothing more to cut (which they have hit) is putting the shareholders first...let me say its not in their best interest, but what do i know, a person who sepnds the most amount of time with our customers and hears what they say, works first class, sees the dissapointment and goes out of my way to ensure they are happy with what we have...

Maybe we should all chip in and buy Alan Joyce a copy of Gordon Bethune's From Worst to First  

I can't remember the exact framework he set out but it was basically just what airnewzealand said. Basically he said that you can make a pizza so cheap no one will buy it because it only has 3 pieces of pepperoni on it, or whatever. On the short term your shareholders will love you, but on the long term if your company has no customers then profits nose dive...

I realise that the aviation market has changed a lot since Bethune was working his magic at Continental back in the 90s, but I really believe that this should be required reading for anyone wanting to run an airline.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

AJ* Defends his position at QF to a blogger

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...letter-from-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce/


*there seems to be a bit of dispute as to whether it was AJ or not.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 22):
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...letter-from-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce/

Interesting stuff!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 22):
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...letter-from-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce/

I think reading that has just convinced me to go an buy some shares in Qantas. Not as an investment (you must be mad to invest in that company) but so that I can try and effect some change as an owner rather than as a disgruntled customer.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
25 bill142 : Problem with that theory is that the institutions and funds control too much of the vote and usually never bother so their proxies get voted on by th
26 shamrock604 : As a passenger, you really have to to tire of this "oh, the CEO doesnt inspire me to provide you with better service". Sorry to break it to you, but t
27 vin2basketball : I agree 100%. And just from the outside, I also feel that Qantas should take advantage of its fastest growing market; Asia. All services using 788/9
28 escapehere : QF should start by actually flying where people want to go. I know it's been done to death here, but their European presence is pathetic. It is not th
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