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LH Group Introduces Credit Card Fee Up To 18 EUR  
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5531 times:

Just received agent news from Lufthansa Group that they will charge credit card fees for all bookings paid by credit card to the passenger, no matter if the booking is made through an agent or through LH directly.

The fees are valid for LH, LX, SN, OS, BD for flights departing in:
Germany for Ticket issuance from 02.11.11
Switzerland for Ticket issuance from 02.11.11
Belgium for Ticket issuance from 02.11.11
Finland for Ticket issuance from 05.09.11
Netherlands Finland for Ticket issuance from 05.09.11
United Kingdom for Ticket issuance from 05.09.11

The fees are depending a little bit on the country you are travelling from, but for Germany i.e. are as follows:
-Domestic: 5 EUR
-Europe: 8 EUR
-Intercontinental: 18 EUR ( !!)

This fees is NOT a Ticketing fee, but an additional fee which is automatically generated in the GDS in order to pay (partially according to LH!!!) the credit card transaction fees that are generated.

This is very frustrating for travel agents, as the only other option for them would be to get the money themselves cash or by money transfer from the guest and then charge the ticket cash through BSP with the airline… In the end this means a lot of extra work (and costs) for the agents.

Although some airlines, especially low cost carriers, do charge credit card fees when booking directly with them online (in addition to the ticket service charge), this is somehow revolutionary, since now big players are starting to do same, and this no matter where the booking is made (online, stationary travel agent, airline directly). Furthermore the fees are incredibly high….

You will find an overview (although in German) on: http://www.optional-payment-charge.info/lhgroup/de/agent/summary.pdf

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

There has since long been a ticket service fee which was 5 € higher if you paid with credit card on their website.

User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Absolutely, but this is different:
- The charge applies in any case, no matter where the booking is made
- now we're talking about up to 18 EUR... in addition to the regular service charge...


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5433 times:

Still thats not too bad. Qantas charge $7.70 AUD for domestic and trans-tasman, and $30.00 AUD per ticket on all international flights.

I still don't understand why this is charged per ticket instead of per credit card transaction.


User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5127 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

This is just ridiculous - the cost to process a credit card is the same whether you fly domestic or international, so why the different charges? This is the kind of thing I would expect from Ryanair, not Lufthansa!

Although these charges may not be around for too much longer in the UK - Stop hiding your credit card charges, OFT tells airlines



That'll teach you
User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 4):
the cost to process a credit card is the same whether you fly domestic or international, so why the different charges?

I don't believe that is correct. My understanding is that transaction charges are a percentage of the cost of the transaction. Visa and MasterCard are normally around 1% and AMEX is up to around 3%.

However, I hope this affects LH terribly or we will see all the other majors roll out a similar charge.



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 3):
Still thats not too bad. Qantas charge $7.70 AUD for domestic and trans-tasman, and $30.00 AUD per ticket on all international flights.

I still don't understand why this is charged per ticket instead of per credit card transaction.

Hi there,
but is this charge including everyhting, I mean including charge for the ticket issuance, no matter what form of payment is used. Because which is new now, is that your regular travel agent will charge you let's say 40 EUR for the ticket issuance plus 18 EUR for the use of the credit card (instead of "only" 40 EUR they would charge now).


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 4):

Doesn't the credit card provider (eg Amex, Visa & Mastercard) charge a certain % of the total amount paid to the business taking the transaction?

So if it is say .75% of the total cost, that would make sense why they charge more for a more expensive long haul fare.   


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Quoting reifel (Reply 6):

Hey mate, I see your point. That is pretty rude of Lufty! I'm sure the regulators would have something to say. The LH group shouldn't be allowed to profit off credit card fees.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

What if people want to pay with Paypal will the 18 EUR still apply as Paypal goes via Credit/Debit card? Will this apply to payments made with Visa cards?


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 1):
which was 5 € higher if you paid with credit card on their website.
Quoting robffm2 (Reply 1):
The charge applies in any case, no matter where the booking is made

So will the 5 € be dropped, because if it isn't it looks very much like double dipping ?

Quoting reifel (Reply 6):
but is this charge including everything, I mean including charge for the ticket issuance, no matter what form of payment is used.

The QF fee is specifically for use of a credit card and is separate from other fees and charges.
Online bookings made at qantas.com.au that do not attract a card fee:
BPay - for bookings made 7 days or more before scheduled departure.
Debit MasterCard - for bookings made within 7 days of scheduled departure.


User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
What if people want to pay with Paypal will the 18 EUR still apply as Paypal goes via Credit/Debit card? Will this apply to payments made with Visa cards?

If booked through lh.de with Paypal, no additional credit card fees apply to date... So this might not change later on. However Paypal is not a payment option offered by other travel agents (at least not generally, there might be some exceptions when online travel agents do offer this, but this can be kept aside), therefore if booking through a stationary or online travel agent, you will not have the possibility to "indirectly" pay by credit card using Paypal, since it's not offered (and if it would, the travel agent would need to pay for the Paypal fees...).

Question in this matter is: As LH is obviously making some money on lower fare tickets with these high credit card fees, will they still offer Paypal payment option through their website once the fee would be introduced? Makes no sense to me...


User currently offlinemacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4906 times:

For the moment I am happy that Austria doesnt fall under this new rule. Would be interesting to know why.

In any case, I am looking forward to the day, airlines stop this bullshitting with cheap ticket fares and then adding up ridiculous fees. They should instead charge reasonable ticket prices from the beginning. How comes that you end up paying 150 Euros for a ticket which is offered for 10 €?? That doesnt make any sense at all. Why not just put 150 in the website and stop this extra BS...



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8222 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Living in the US we've been spoiled by the wide usage and acceptance of credit cards however in Europe it's always been my impression that credit cards are frowned upon by businesses so this move by LH doesn't surprise me too much. It's unfortunate but not surprising. Also, cc's are not as commonly used as debit cards and this fee doesn't appear to affect debit card transactions so ironically this will have a greater impact on those who travel the most (who are more likely to carry and use a cc), vs. the leisure passenger that only travels once or twice a year.

User currently offlinegreenwichsud From United States of America, joined May 2008, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 3):
I still don't understand why this is charged per ticket instead of per credit card transaction.

Whenever I have booked for multiple passengers under a single PNR, the purchase has shown up as multiple transactions (one per passenger) on my bank statement. I suppose that makes it easier to reconcile if you need to make changes to a single ticket.


User currently onlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 4):
This is just ridiculous - the cost to process a credit card is the same whether you fly domestic or international, so why the different charges?

Not really. There is a fixed and a variable part. In the USA the fix part can be around USD0.3. The variable part, depending on
- if it is domestic or international transaction and
- what card is used (VISA/MC; Discover and AMEX charge different %) plus there are differences even for different VISA cards, let say if the purchase is made with a cashback or miles card then the % is higher. This can easily be somewhere between 2% to 4%, if not more for non-qualified rate.

So for example on a $1000 ticket purchase we have USD0.3 plus 2% of USD1000 , which is USD20.3 in transaction fees.

I suppose the fee structure would be similar in EU.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

Most major companies on the high street have 0% charge for credit/debit card transactions (supermarkets, chain retail shops, etc.). I would expect Lufthansa not to have to pay for credit/debit transactions at all. I'm sure they have some sweet deals with the banks they work with as to not to pay credit card fees (probably except AMEX).

Basically, a "fee" you'd expect from easyJet / Ryanair, not from Lufthansa.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6531 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

I don't like to spend money I don't have, so I only own a debit card. Would I have to pay the fee, and the title is misleading ?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
those who travel the most (who are more likely to carry and use a cc)

I'm not sure I see the correlation, if you travel a lot, it's either paid for by your employer (and you don't use your card) or you have lots of money, so why use a credit ?

BTW, my cheap debit card is still a VISA international that works around the globe.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
Living in the US we've been spoiled by the wide usage and acceptance of credit cards however in Europe it's always been my impression that credit cards are frowned upon by businesses so this move by LH doesn't surprise me too much.

Yes, credit cards are not very popular here. It's either cash or debit card. It cuts out the middle man and reduces the risk for the business involved. And while the charges LH imposes seem outrageous, I'm not really sure they are. For a €10 000 first class ticket FRA-MIA-FRA, LH would be paying around €300 in credit card fees at a 3% charge. Obviously, you are screwed if you book a €99 discount fare, but other than for this small number of cheap seats I don't really see much room for LH to make money with this. It's an austerity measure and all too understandable.

If others will follow or if LH is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, remains to be seen. I suspect the former to become reality though. But as long as paypay still works for free, not a real issue for me.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineviveAF From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 198 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Interesting to see the varying levels of charge between the different issuing countries.... the UK charge is showing as GBP4.50 which is exactly the same as the fee introduced by BA... coincidence? or maybe not wanting to appear more greedy than them?   

User currently onlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting viveAF (Reply 19):
Interesting to see the varying levels of charge between the different issuing countries.... the UK charge is showing as GBP4.50 which is exactly the same as the fee introduced by BA...

LH Group cc fees are lower in more competitive markets, eg those dominated by Oneworld and Skyteam.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8222 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 17):
I'm not sure I see the correlation, if you travel a lot, it's either paid for by your employer (and you don't use your card) or you have lots of money, so why use a credit ?

You have a very old fashion approach. Just because I use a CC it doesn't mean I don't have the money. But I understand that's exactly the mentality in Europe. It just means my money is earning interest in my account, however small that may be, until the end of the month when the CC bill comes. And I always pay my CC bill in full, every month, so I'm not paying the CC company any interest for borrowing money for a month. I win every month. You also don't have protection from fraud if you use a debit card vs. a cc. If someone takes your debit card you're screwd. If your cc is stolen, you don't have to pay. But the main difference between a credit card and a debit card is the cc puts the extra burned on the vendor whereas the debit card puts the extra burden on the consumer.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6531 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4416 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 21):
You have a very old fashion approach. Just because I use a CC it doesn't mean I don't have the money. But I understand that's exactly the mentality in Europe. It just means my money is earning interest in my account, however small that may be, until the end of the month when the CC bill comes.

I could do that with my card for a very small fee, and it still would be a debit card (deferred debit). It's a definition problem, then. And I have insurances if my card is stolen (also, it can't be used that easily without my PIN).



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4397 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 17):
I don't like to spend money I don't have, so I only own a debit card. Would I have to pay the fee, and the title is misleading ?

This is indeed an interesting point. A lot of countries, i.e. France, but as far as I know also Spain and maybe Italy, have a lot of VISA and Mastercard Debit Cards.

Everyone that opens an account in France will as default receive a VISA or Mastercard debit card, directly linked to the account, with mention "carte Bleue" on it, which they can use for domestic transactions (i.e. ATM) but also for international transactions as any other "regular" VISA card. And of course they will need to pay the fee too, although this card is actually not a "credit card".

However this is uncommun in Germany. Bank account holders receive a seperate plastic card, either Maestro or VPAY for domestic purchases, which is a debit card. They may furthermore request a credit card if they like and if the bank is willing to grant it.

But basically the fee is not "for credit cards", but for "visa or MC or amex branded cards, no matter if it's debit or credit".


User currently offlinembj2000 From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4387 times:

This is so stupid! So how are they going to continue to promote now their own Miles&More credit cards?? "Get our expensive cards, so you get double f*cked"
What's the alternative if I buy my ticket online, should I wire the money and wait 3 days and then the tickets are issued?

The EU should force them to reveal the true CC processing costs...



Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
25 Aesma : IIRC it's in Germany that a court ruled against Ryanair (or Easyjet) because they didn't offer a way to pay without the fee, so LH is obligated to off
26 ordjoe : FWIW I think BA does this for non US credit cards. For US credit cards, it is against the agreement with Visa, MC, AMEX etc to add an extra charge, an
27 reifel : Well they do: -either book online through lufthansa.de and pay via "Lastschriftvefahren" (which is basically that you enter your bank details and the
28 something : If your world view is as much of a fairy tale as the things you say about credit cards, then yes, Europe is a super old fashioned. Debit card transac
29 Post contains images airbazar : You got it all backwards. Exactly. Which is why I use a CC, so I can keep earning interest on my bank account, all month long. I don't think you both
30 something : I didn't say your world view was a fairy tale. I said it is if you think Europe is in any way ''old fashioned''. Which is what you accused Aesma of,
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