747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5096 times:
Yesterday, I wrote a stupid post in Civil Aviation, about US airlines and VLAs, and I wrote the post in a way, that was some what insulting to crew members of twin engines airliners. The post had poor grammar and spelling, and I got my behind handed to me, for posting that load of junk. It was a childish post, that had no fact in it, and I should have thought about it before I post that topic.
Tonight, I want to make a post that was respectful and that look like it was written by a 33 years old man.
I would like to know, what do the world think about US airlines like DL, UA and AA? Would you fly them on over seas trips? Do you think they give you the cabin luxuries, that foreign airline do? Are their cabin crews up to foreign airlines level? Please let me know how you fell about US Airlines?
Coal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1894 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5068 times:
No, no, no, no, and no. Does that answer all the questions? The legacy airlines are a poor excuse of a Greyhound with wings. This from a Y and C class point of view. I've flow AA international First, but like my seatmate said: "You're offering me USA Today? That's like serving McDonald's in First class!"
However, LCCs in the US, such as B6 and VX are above and beyond their counterparts in Asia or Europe.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3629 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5047 times:
From a premium cabin point-of-view, I can't speak for DL (although colleagues say it's nice), I think AA is absolute crap and UA (as in CO/UA) has definitively improved their hard product. UA's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that the new cabin isn't being rolled out fast enough. If you're used to the likes of AC, QR or SQ and you fly the new UA cabin one day, you'll certainly find the product good enough, but if you fly the old one, you won't be back unless you absolutely have to!
Where I see the biggest need for improvement is in service, however. I don't need cute young things or F/As trained to an obsession a la SQ, but US carriers and their use of seniority to award lines seem to result in a large number of F/As flying international flights apparently for the sole reason that they can get their monthly hours done faster than on a bunch of domestic short hops. They may not be doing much less than their counterparts who strive to provide a good customer experience, but their entire attitude ruins their forced effort by making it obvious they'd rather you had not bothered them. Thankfully they are a minority in my book, albeit a very sizable one, and they ruin the efforts of their colleagues who do try, hard even at times.
What I cannot stand in a crew, on the other hand, is when they disappear (nearly) to a one as soon as the meal service has ended and don't come out of their crew cave, I mean curtained-off galley, until the pre-landing service. As far as I'm concerned, the entire lot can be fired. They're not even trying! I am on one or two flights like that a year, I'd say.
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5037 times:
Quoting Coal (Reply 1): No, no, no, no, and no. Does that answer all the questions? The legacy airlines are a poor excuse of a Greyhound with wings. This from a Y and C class point of view. I've flow AA international First, but like my seatmate said: "You're offering me USA Today? That's like serving McDonald's in First class!"
However, LCCs in the US, such as B6 and VX are above and beyond their counterparts in Asia or Europe.
RyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5035 times:
In my experience of US carriers I have to agreed 100% with blueflyer:
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 2): Where I see the biggest need for improvement is in service
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 2): their entire attitude ruins their forced effort by making it obvious they'd rather you had not bothered them
The new premium products on UA, DL etc do look good (haven't flown any of them intl in 10 years...) and I have no doubt that they have significantly closed the gap in hard product with their international competitors.
Where they fall down (in my more recent experience) is crew attitude. Please note I'm talking about a specific group of crew, not all of them: I had some fantastic flight attendants on my one recent DL flight. Overall, however, US crew are generally more 'senior' than in other places.
I'm in no way age-ist and honestly could not give a stuff how attractive somebody is. Furthermore I've had some young 20-somethings on other airlines who fancied themselves as celebrities: they looked fantastic but seemed to think you were not worth their attention.
Overall I get the sense (as a passenger) that some of the more 'senior' crews feel that they have a certain sense of entitlement which means they can do as little work as physically possible and God help you if you try and get them to do any more by pressing the call button, asking for a glass of water etc
It's this mentality which I think does more harm to the reputation of the US carriers than anything else. I've posted here before that they could achieve so much if they got their crews to smile more, and I stand by this. But obviously this isn't SQ were talking about and you can't fire at will for having a hair out of line, so underlying motivation issues need to be addressed.
Nope. Not because they are horrible or anything but say, if I want to go to Asia, I'd rather fly with an Asian carrier to experience something unique. Same goes for trips to Europe, I'd rather fly on BA to LHR than AA or DL. BUT, if the price is significantly low (say 700USD compared to 1500USD), then I'd fly with them in a heartbeat.
From my experience, I haven't encountered any rude or arrogant flight attendants. I actually had some of the friendliest flight attendants on UA and surprisingly US! I've had one of the friendliest group of FA on a recent UA flight, although they were in their senior years, they seem to love their job, lots of smiles and delivered a very "homy" service. Same goes for my US experience last June.
What I definitely agree on is that American FAs compared to most Asian FAs are not that polished or professional, which isn't bad at all. I flew with OZ in 2010 and the flight attendants were barbie-doll like, walked like a model, smiles all the time, polite, friendly and overall, very polished. HOWEVER, they lacked interaction. This is the part where American FAs do good at, I find them very talkative and interactive with the passengers with some humors, etc.
My family has flown on every legacy carrier as well as WN, B6 and VX for LCC and I have no major complaints about them. Except for my mom who avoids AA like the plague, it seems like every time she flies with AA, the flight gets cancelled or delayed due to a mechanical issue. They get me from point A to point B safely, which is the most important thing. But if I have to rate the US Airlines from my experience, I'd have to go with:
( ++ Service, ++Channel 9, + IFE on refurbished 777s, +I love their image, + Wide-body Domestic Flights, etc) ( - Small presence in JFK/LGA compared to DL)
shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4083 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4906 times:
I like DL a lot. The product absolutely is not lavish, but there is a very "down home" kind of friendliness to the carrier.
AA, UA, CO, US just depress me. Their aircraft are dreadful, old or just look old, stuffy, navy blue and gray blah, although UA's new premium products do look quite good (have not tried them yet).
US airport staff, including TSA, can either be an absolute pleasure, or absolutely, positively the most awful, rudeness filled experience you can dream of. There does not seem to be a middle ground. (I'm thinking LAX and JFK in particular where I was actually breathless at one point from how rude they were. Had we been on the street, the respective staff would have been punched to the ground, and would have deserved it.)
Once on board, the cabin staff are generally fine to excellent, but are a little less "polished" than their European or Asian counterparts. Uniform and grooming standards are absolutely awful however - I've seen employees of mass rail transit companies looking smarter. The uniforms themselves are boring.
Overall, the US carriers need to simply refresh their cabins (and try to avoid Navy Blue!!!!!!!!!!) refresh the uniforms (and try to avoid Navy Blue!!!!!!!!!) and crack down hard on poor uniform and grooming standards. None of these things is all that difficult to do, and if done, the US airlines would as good as their foreign competition.
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
DALelite From Switzerland, joined Jun 2000, 1770 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4900 times:
I would always choose DL over SQ, LX and the rest...
I remember, years ago when DL started to code-share with the late SR, they gave up the JFK-ZRH flight to them.
But i had a return ticket to ZRH and was to be put up on SR. I then did everything to change my ticket and fly to Switzerland on DL via FRA. Everbody at DL looked at me stunningly. But i've got what i wanted...
My true and only, unique DL service...
I'm not. I've sampled the offerings, and based on what I have experienced...as I said in reply #3, I prefer KE to Asia and KL to Europe. Hardly my fault if other people agree with me, perhaps its that those carriers are doing something right to make me look for their logos when the search results start popping up on my screen.
I am somewhat curious as to what criteria drive your preference for DL over the others. Don't get me wrong, I like DL a lot, I fly them every time I go to ATL or LGA, and prefer them to the Caribbean unless UA has a nonstop. I just think there are better options when you go intercontinental.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4741 times:
The US airlines would have to come at a considerable discount before I would switch over to them on routes across the Atlantic.
To my mind they are always playing catch up, even now they are just approaching the stage where they can offer a consistent J hard product which matches BA & VS of 10 years back, in addition they can't rival the route network of BA out of LHR/LGW unless you are willing to do the flight in two legs. No meal service on long domestic legs, charges for drinks, long serving legacy crews with long standing legacy ideas.
I appreciate that the US legacy carriers provide a host of FF privileges for their regular customers, indeed it appears that a bit of status can work wonders over the pond, but its not much use to a European
BD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4718 times:
From a Y passenger perspective i find UA CO US AA DL all remarkably similiar in a stunningly average kind of way, nothing particularly bad but nothing outstanding either. CO may just have an edge for me but generally it is a seat with 31-32 inches of pitch where most everything comes with an extra fee. It's just the way it is. As the onboard is so similar (in a lacking kind of way) i tend to judge them on how they cope when things go wrong, in that respect i've had a good experience with DL and UA, no experience with CO or AA and ambysmally awful on US. Compared to my on board experences with BA KL AY SQ and QF the US legacies are generaaly lacking, though the odd thing is that i don't think it would take a lot to see a lot of improvement, a decent pillow on longhaul (DL take a look at what SQ give) an extra $5 on meals and a crew that actually seem to enjoy what they do (no one is perfect 100% of the time in that department but for some reason a lot of US legacy crews have a tendancy towards the can't be bothered attitude, which is even more surprising when the rest of the us service industry has such a good reputation for good attentive service) would go a long way to a more pleasant experience.
Given a choice in the US i fly either WN or B6, not had the opportunity to try VX.