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The JFK Arrival "experience"  
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13752 times:

I was trying to explain to a friend what it is like to arrive at JFK and gave up trying, told him it was something he had to experience for himself, and it got me to wondering, as so many people have said here in Trip reports and otherwise it is usually a negative experience. For me it has 20+ yrs from the UK to the USA, entry points have been, SFO,MCO,TPA,EWR,DEN,MSP,LAX,LAS,MIA,BOS, and JFK and have found the experience at JFK always the worst.
What are the reasons, is it the people,the pressures on them due to the volumes, the enviroment they work in, or the "New York sate of mind"?
Just trying to understand what's going on here.
Once away from the airport you gotta love the city,very diverse and entertaining.  


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13689 times:

It was better than it once was the last time I came through there (granted, now 10 years ago), but in the 80s when I used to live in New York, arriving at the International Arrivals Building (now terminal 4) was like stepping into some sort of medieval fair or zoo. I used to have the impulse to go over there and hold up a sign saying "We're sorry - please see other parts of our great country" for people arriving from other countries.

Best regards,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13564 times:

After the rude customs agents, you get the rude TSA agents. Horrible, horrible, horrible few minutes passing through there listening to them screaming at passengers to remove their belts and shoes. The worst part is many of the passengers are accustomed to the quiet, polite, professional security experience in their home country overseas.

Just a terrible, unacceptable, disgraceful way to welcome people to the USA.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13546 times:

I have entered the US countless times (50+ anyway) and never had a negative experience at JFK. Well, immigration at the BA terminal can be understaffed, have had some long waits there, up to an hour in a line that snakes up the corridor out of the immigration area.

But try arriving at O'Hare on the poor man's Concorde (e.g. the UA 747 from LHR that arr approx 11am) and immigration hasn't even opened yet, or is too understaffed to deal with the influx of punters, and you have over an hour long wait in which EVERYONE misses their connection (at least JFK is mostly O&D, so you're only missing dinner). That to me is totally inexplicable, because 99.9% of flights are daily, and in any case the full schedule is known weeks, if not months, upfront, so how can they not know what's coming in, and roster enough agents? It doesn't make sense for the airlines who run a hub there, and doesn't even make sense for the country.

MIA is the other one where I have had a bad time, a lot of paranoia which leads to unnecessary delays, humiliation and bad juju.

I would say, overall, the US immigration experience is not a positive one, I mean, sure there are signs up everywhere that say, we promise to treat you with respect and all that, but many immigration officers are very rude and ignorant of the outside world. The trouble is, the US sees the entire rest of the world as a threat, and also sees themselves as the greatest country on earth so they're doing you a favour by letting you in. That's a bad combination. Everywhere else in the world, they just treat you with as much respect and professionalism as the situation allows, whereas the US actually say they will (which is unique) and then make you stand around for ages being shouted at and treated like a criminal (which includes actually taking your fingerprints) and asked weird questions they learned off Mossad. All of my "bad immigration experiences" have been in the US (with two exceptions, both in the UK).

However I find the agents in NY are a bit more worldly, so they don't freak out because of the odd stamp from Iran or Somaliland, and a bit more human, so you can have a normal conversation with them, and sometimes even a joke.

(I am extremely curious about the new transatlantic service to Rockford IL from Stansted - what will immigration be like in Rockford? My guess is one of two scenarios - locals who are incredibly grateful that their local airport has TATL service, and will bend over backwards to be polite and welcoming, or locals who are incredibly grateful that their local airport has TATL service cos this is their moment to bend over backwards to be total assholes cos they think that's how it is at O'Hare / on TV. One hopes for the former.)



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13493 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
what will immigration be like in Rockford?

Of the couple times experienced at RFD, its always been well-staffed, polite and as quick as can be expected. Customs and TSA come directly from ORD.



Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlinenottarockstar From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13467 times:

Not to defend the immigration at JFK or EWR, but I've had much less pleasurable experiences going through LHR than either of the NYC airports. Yes, I am a US Citizen, but saying it's because Americans think they are better than everyone else is stupid.. it's much more likely a cause of underpayment and lack of staff.

User currently offlinesteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13435 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
MIA is the other one where I have had a bad time, a lot of paranoia which leads to unnecessary delays, humiliation and bad juju.

This. A thousand times this. I don't know whether it is the number of Caribbean and South American connections, and therefore higher probability of dubious people and items being imported, but I find the process at MIA far far more painful and the border agents and the TSA agents far greater jackasses than anywhere else in the USA.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
However I find the agents in NY are a bit more worldly, so they don't freak out because of the odd stamp from Iran or Somaliland, and a bit more human, so you can have a normal conversation with them, and sometimes even a joke.

JFK I normally get through in minutes - the only bad experience I have had there was a colleague I was travelling with missing a 3 hour connection, because his surname is Khan and he had a Pakistan stamp in his passport.....despite being British born and bred. Only joke I remember though was in SFO when my passport was about nine years old, and the agent basically told me my youthful photograph was taken "a little while ago wasn't it?".



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13428 times:

Quoting nottarockstar (Reply 5):
I've had much less pleasurable experiences going through LHR than either of the NYC airports

God, no argument there, British immigration officials, or more accurately some officials and all policy, is awful, and makes me very ashamed.

Try visiting South Korea, Thailand, Japan, to see how it should be. Brits (and our American cousins) have such a superiority complex. I would also add that immigration officials in countries whose whole raison d'être is to oppose the rest of the world (Iran, North Korea), wouldn't dream of being rude, superior, or anything other than totally polite and professional to visitors.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8362 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13289 times:

I think it depends on what terminal you arrive in and what time of day. The few times I arrived at JFK it was on SQ from FRA, in the morning. It was uneventful. I have nothing to complain about.
TBIT at LAX however, it was a nightmare. MIA during the afternoon Caribbean and TATL arrival rush was an equal nightmare. All of these experiences were before I became a US permanent resident.
Citizens and PR's have a significantly better experience entering the country, regardless of airport.


User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13197 times:

I never had really bad experiences on a US point of entry airport. That said, I only entered the US maybe half a dozen of times, so this is possibly not representative. Had a very bad experience in YYZ with a Canadian agent, though. Isreal wasn't very nice, too.

However the worst experience I had was entering by bus in Vermont from Montreal. The whole procedure took 2 hours for approx 30 people on the bus. And they didn't even checked the bags. First they let us wait approx 30 minutes in the bus, then we all had to queue in a little room and the two really rude agents processed anyone. Shouting, speaking loud, not caring that people coming from Montreal or often not good in English (actually I thought some people in Vermont would speek french), no discretion, intimidation and all that. Really a very bad and embarassing experience. Probably they think people travelling on bus have no money and should get no respect. As a used traveller I remained cool and i rather thought those two agents were the poor guys which never came out of their Vermont town, working at the border but never had the idea to see how nice Canada can be and make a step on the other side and have a big complex because of that... This is so unnecessary.


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3635 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12867 times:

I wouldn't just blame JFK. The whole process, the attitude of the staff and the length of waiting all make for a bad experience, especially for someone that has just arrived after a long, exhausting flight from overseas. My experience at LAX (TBIT) - which is a zoo - has always been awful, from landing to curbside I usually need more than two hours. As a holder of a work visa, meaning that I travel in and out of the country all the time and I am a resident, I don't see why I need to give my fingerprints and take my photograph every single time I fly back. It would be nice if things could be sped up for certain groups during immigration. I have witnessed officers screaming at passengers of Asian origin who can't speak English - how hard is it to find someone who speaks Mandarin, for example, at LAX?

They may claim that they will treat you with respect but this is not very true if you manage to mess up the paperwork. I had to pick up my roommate from LAX, he is a postgrad student who had all the paperwork with him and his visa but he had misplaced one of the forms he needed to have with him - something very random that contained no information that wasn't on his visa already, which I managed to find at our house. He got held up, treated literally like crap with officers screaming at him and spitting on his face while giving him the "don't speak unless you are spoken to" attitude, and on top of that he was not allowed to call me and let me know he was gonna be help up. He managed to sneak an SMS out which saved me from waiting 6 hours at the airport for him, wondering what had happened. Trying to contact anyone from immigration or trying to get them the form was an ordeal and it did not end up happening. Trying to figure out what was going on would have been impossible if he hadn't managed to contact me. His fault 100% for not taking the form with him and he deserved to be held up until they could clear him, but the way he was treated was disgusting.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25292 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12812 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I have entered the US countless times (50+ anyway) and never had a negative experience at JFK. Well, immigration at the BA terminal can be understaffed, have had some long waits there, up to an hour in a line that snakes up the corridor out of the immigration area.

Have you ever arrived at the DL (ex-Pan Am) terminal? I made the mistake of doing that about 10 years ago. The customs/immigration experience in what looked like a dark, dingy, shabby, low-ceilinged basement, was so horrible I have never flown DL again since. Must have been a dozen other international flights arriving about the same time and the area was so crowded you could barely move. Took at least 90 minutes to reach the front of the line. I was connecting on AA (Eagle) from JFK to YUL and missed my connection and had to wait about 3 hours for the next flight. That experience was worse than many 3rd world airports.


User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12795 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I would say, overall, the US immigration experience is not a positive one, I mean, sure there are signs up everywhere that say, we promise to treat you with respect and all that, but many immigration officers are very rude and ignorant of the outside world.

True. The signs are especially galling since they present an other world non-reality to the actual experience. I mean, does anyone who works there actually read them?

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 6):
This. A thousand times this. I don't know whether it is the number of Caribbean and South American connections, and therefore higher probability of dubious people and items being imported, but I find the process at MIA far far more painful and the border agents and the TSA agents far greater jackasses than anywhere else in the USA.

Oh MIA, too true.

Quoting lewis (Reply 10):

I wouldn't just blame JFK. The whole process, the attitude of the staff and the length of waiting all make for a bad experience, especially for someone that has just arrived after a long, exhausting flight from overseas. My experience at LAX (TBIT) - which is a zoo - has always been awful

Ah LAX, also true.

I'd add IAD, god awful wait times and rude, miserable agents.

But, it's not all bad:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
However I find the agents in NY are a bit more worldly,

Try those in BOS, sometimes an absolute delight, and those at SFO can be very pleasant.

So why are immigration so awful in some places and really good in others? Is it managers, local culture, customers passing through?


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 409 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12689 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I would say, overall, the US immigration experience is not a positive one, I mean, sure there are signs up everywhere that say, we promise to treat you with respect and all that, but many immigration officers are very rude and ignorant of the outside world. The trouble is, the US sees the entire rest of the world as a threat, and also sees themselves as the greatest country on earth so they're doing you a favour by letting you in. That's a bad combination.

You are exactly right, and as an American I apologize for the provincialism some of us love to engage in. Every time my friends arrive from out of the country they seem to always mention how rude and arrogant the customs officers are. And as someone who spent years in the industry working at a major international arrival port- I saw this behavior frequently and heard others comment about it. That's certainly not to say all American customs agents are mean or unprofessional, because plenty of them are nice people. There is, however, a disturbingly large percentage of them who get away with unprofessional behavior in the name of duty - and as you say- it's a direct reflection of the endless barrage of American exceptionalism we get over here.

[Edited 2012-01-25 14:07:27]


Next
User currently offlinegreggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12454 times:
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For me, it's a toss-up between ATL and ORD for the worst Intl Arrival experience. ATL is understaffed with rude and indifferent personnel and is a logistical nightmnare. ORD has the same issues, except the Customs officials are even worse. I have been "baited" several times when arriving at ORD ("So did you meet anyone interesting on your trip to Europe?" or " Why did you go to Buenos Aires by yourself?"). I have never had any issues at MIA, DFW, PDX, SEA, or JFK.

User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12439 times:

I never had a bad experience at JFK. I actually found people to be polite. LAX and MIA, on the other hand, are a total disgrace.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12360 times:

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 14):
I have been "baited" several times when arriving at ORD ("So did you meet anyone interesting on your trip to Europe?" or " Why did you go to Buenos Aires by yourself?").

I share your view of ATL. In fact I cleared customs there yesterday but it was fine.

Question, what do you mean by baited with those inquiries? I personally find it bizarre what they ask sometimes (why do you think I went there...to check it out...why else does someone go on a vacation???) but I don't quite think I was being baited to answer in any particular way.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12346 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 2):

Long queues yes, but never seen an agent like you describe.


User currently offlineHarpandShamrock From Ireland, joined Mar 2011, 133 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12298 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Have you ever arrived at the DL (ex-Pan Am) terminal? I made the mistake of doing that about 10 years ago. The customs/immigration experience in what looked like a dark, dingy, shabby, low-ceilinged basement, was so horrible I have never flown DL again since. Must have been a dozen other international flights arriving about the same time and the area was so crowded you could barely move. Took at least 90 minutes to reach the front of the line. I was connecting on AA (Eagle) from JFK to YUL and missed my connection and had to wait about 3 hours for the next flight. That experience was worse than many 3rd world airports.

My one international arrival into JFK (from LHR) was through that terminal and it was enough to make me swear that any future flights would be from Ireland so I could be pre-cleared at Dublin! Took me over an hour to get through, and I didn't appreciate finding my bag just thrown into a pile of unclaimed luggage at the side of the carousel. If I go ahead with the USA trip this summer I'm planning, even though I now live in the UK it will begin with a flight from somewhere near here to DUB.......



2011 so far: LX (4), FR (2), EI (2), BE (2) - 4004 miles
User currently offlineplanewasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12219 times:

JFK arrival sucks.
I remeber when I didn't have a pen to fill in the arrival card with. All the pens at the place you are supposed to fill the papers in at were gone/stolen.

So I asked a random security guy:
-Hi, where can I get a pen to fill my arrival card? There are no pens at the place where they should be..
-You can't get one from me
-OK, where can I get one?
-I don't know, not my business

WTF?

Fortunately, Americans in general are nice and helpful. So the first non airport employee I asked helped me out.

Immigration in China is a dream compared to the US.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8362 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12021 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Have you ever arrived at the DL (ex-Pan Am) terminal? I made the mistake of doing that about 10 years ago. The customs/immigration experience in what looked like a dark, dingy, shabby, low-ceilinged basement, was so horrible I have never flown DL again since.

I have back when SQ operated out of that terminal and it was uneventful. But then again, SQ arrives early and we were pretty much the only passengers going through immigration. I went through it soo quickly to notice anything.


User currently offlineflyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11987 times:

i have only entered US through EWR,JFK and IAH, so my experience is limited. Most of the times the immigration officers were ok. I cant really complain. I had some funny agents in JFK and aswell as some, well not rude, but original...lol.
I find generally the immigration service levels to be similar in most countries. The nicest agents however were in MTY and DPS.



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently offlinedelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11936 times:

I was through T3 in November. Not the most welcoming facilities, but the line moved fairly quickly. Refusing to fly an airline because of dated facilities seems a tad hyperbolic. As for lines, I haven't been to an airport that didn't have them.

The worst I've experienced was actually departure passport control and security at MXP back when Alitalia still hubbed there. Now that was a disaster.

[Edited 2012-01-25 17:45:07]

User currently offlinebrandonfsu05 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11894 times:

The only time I went through JFK the people were completely professional T4... The worst place ever for me was Israel and also Brazil at the border. I was in FRA waiting to process when some female German passport control officer began yelling at an Indian family that didn't speak German/English and just kept yelling.

Most CBP officials are regular all Americans. Americans in general aren't too interested in the outside world.... CBP officers are no different IMO... They know their jobs and their flights and types of passengers but that's about it. It's just a job for them...and most of them are overworked...and understaffed...imagine getting forced in on your days off...every week. Every day...same passengers...same attitudes...same questions.

I don't care what kind of personality you have....working with the public 8+ hours every day takes its toll. If the officers aren't asking you questions they aren't doing their job.

As far as people's perceptions of immigration/customs in other countries...Most countries don't ask any questions...hell the officers usually don't even speak English very well or whatever the passenger's language is...

If the USA had an immigration policy of just scanning the passport and stamping it and not asking questions or doing fingerprints I'm sure everyone would think the people were so amazing here too! Unfortunately, the officers have to interact with the passengers unlike in other countries... at least until every one is eligible for Global Entry.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25292 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11888 times:

Quoting delimit (Reply 22):
I was through T3 in November. Not the most welcoming facilities, but the line moved fairly quickly. Refusing to fly an airline because of dated facilities seems a tad hyperbolic. As for lines, I haven't been to an airport that didn't have them.

I've never had to wait at customs/immigration longer than 30 minutes, and usually much less than that, in other parts of the world. When I used to fly about 3 times a year from GVA to IAD on business, I also had a few waits of an hour or so there. I always checked the schedules and tried to pick the transatlantic carrier that had the earliest arrival at IAD which helped avoid the crowds. If your flight arrived at the same time as 2 or 3 others the wait could be very long.

I realize the airline isn't responsible for customs/immigration, but when you know a certain carrier's major hub is bad, you tend to avoid using that carrier.


25 delimit : I agree Asia has the rest of the world beat. I find pretty much all EU and US airports about par as far as line length. It really just depends when yo
26 richierich : Seeing this thread is about JFK, specifically, I think it has to be said that it definitely depends on which terminal you arrive into and at what time
27 NYC-air : Yes, of course. And it has to be said that for a long time JFK arrivals in general, regardless of whether were arriving internationally or not, was a
28 timpdx : LHR by far the worst experience I have had. Oh what an awful place and what awful people. In the US, I fly tons through LAX and think is o.k. but a to
29 doug_Or : Yeah, until you transfer to the E train @ Jamaica. That's one hell of a "welcome to the US of A."
30 ACKattack : I haven't flown through US customs in a few years or through JFK in my memory. I have flown in to BOS international and I never had any problems with
31 Post contains images washingtonian : JFK is really not so bad. I think a lot (at any airport) depends on what terminal you fly into. MIA's South Terminal is quite nice including the FIS f
32 Post contains images BOACCunard : It depends on the terminal. I know T7 is one of the last of the original JFK terminals standing, but it's newer, better maintained and less overused
33 doug_Or : The station that links the AirTrain with the E train is a dark dirty dump. Water (I hope) dripping from the ceiling, missing tiles, trash, and rats.
34 mdavies06 : I arrived at LHR T3 a few times during the afternoon South Asia / Middle East arrival rush and the line for immigration for non EU passport passengers
35 SamuP : Guys, you haven't really seen anything until you try entering the U.S., U.K. or any Asian country with a Colombian passport. Now, that's an adventure!
36 peanuts : Let's just say that is your perception of the situation. Your post in general demonstrates a lack of understanding where certain countries and cultur
37 syncmaster : Thankfully the one time I did arrive at JFK from an international destination I was able to pre-clear in Dublin. EWR isn't any better. I've been throu
38 fbgdavidson : Generalizations on the arrivals process is generally pointless. Meeting one off colour agent doesn't mean "all the immigration agents are rude". Havin
39 machnumber : I had terrible experiences at JFK. It got a little better in the last few years. Before the immigration area felt like a prison with guards yelling at
40 Post contains images HKG212 : I find the whole premise of this posting implausible. Replace "arrive at JFK" with: "watch American television", "ride a New York taxi", or "eat in C
41 zrs70 : OY! Just drove from Montreal into Vermont last summer through a smaller country road. Expected laid back, gentle folk. But the agent was condescendin
42 klm672 : I'll never forget the experience with LHR coming from BOS a few years ago (I was a 20 at the time). I planned a trip with my gf, but weeks before the
43 signol : I've only entered the US through JFK (T7), LAX and IAD. All of which encountered long queues, 30mins to 1h (except when our toddler was inconsoleable
44 daviation : I'm baffled by this thread. I don't think there's a pattern at JFK or with U.S. airports in general. And I don't need any other Americans to apologize
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