samguan From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 4 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6838 times:
Hello, but this is my first post here and I hope that I am posting in the right place.
Three weeks ago I was on a flight from Toronto to Shanghai on an Air Canada Boeing 777. It was a very cold day and it was snowing. The plane left gate around 45 minutes late and had to go through the De-Icing center which took almost one hour because of the lineup. As we were lining up for takeoff, there was also a long queue I assumed and we waited for about 45 minutes and then an announcement came from the crew saying that we have to return to the gate for refuel because we did not have enough fuel to make the trip to Shanghai, a lot of fuel was used during taxiing.
Then we returned to the gate and got more fuel and then went back to the De-Icing center and then finally was able to get back to the runway. This second trip took two hours but finally we were able to take off, at that time we were already 4.5 hours late.
Upon arrival in Shanghai, many people missed their connection flights. Because it was two days before the Chinese New Year with most flights fully booked, I was told that there is no more economy seats to my destination until after the Chinese new year. My only option was upgrade to a first class ticket and the only first class ticket available to my destination was the following evening. So I stayed in Shanghai for one night and had to pay for the hotel and the upgrade because there was no way that I was going to stay in the airport during Chinese new year, the whole purpose of my trip was to see my family during the New Year.
If they didn't have to go back to the gate and get more refuel, I would have made my flight on time.
tymnbalewne From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6789 times:
Was it a single ticket YYZ-PVG-XXX or did you originally two separate tickets, (YYZ-PVG and PVG-XXX) if it's the latter then you're pretty much out of luck I suspect. AC's contract with you was to get you to PVG, which they did. If it's the former, well, I would think AC would've taken care of you one way or another.
I bought it from a travel agent here in Toronto and it was printed on the same page. There would have been no charge if they had more economy seats but the only one seat they had was a first class seat.
ykaops From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6731 times:
Weather delays are beyond any air carrier's control and most airlines do not / will not offer compensation if your connection is on another carrier and ticketed seperately. You can always write the customer relations dept and inquire if they will offer any type of refund.
Unfortunately AC's "ON MY WAY" travel protection program does not cover international flights as of yet, which would have covered you on another carrier as a result of the delay and paid for your hotel.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5716 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6731 times:
Unfortunately, as much as we would like to think otherwise, we are always at the mercy of Mother Nature.
Quoting samguan (Thread starter): If they didn't have to go back to the gate and get more refuel, I would have made my flight on time.
You're kidding right? If they did not have enough fuel, you would NOT have made your flight on time, and likely, not even PVG without stopping en-route.
Normally, fuel is boarded for predicted taxi and de-icing procedures. These predictions are on a forecast percentile. Namely, it if were enough for the last 300 flights, it is probably enough for that flight. However ... things happen. A de-icing bay may be closed, flights may be delayed which caused a back up and line-ups and hold times increased due to heavier than forecast precipitation.
All of to which the crew must adjust and react, making your flight 100% safe ... which likely it was.
While weather is beyond any airline's control, take a shot. Request compensation, who knows, you might get lucky.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6215 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6565 times:
No, you're not owed anything.
Winter happens in Canada, routinely. When making a very long haul flight, the plane left the gate maxed out on fuel (not necessarily full to capacity, but very likely full to takeoff weight limit). So it's not as if they could simply have loaded more.
And 4.5 hours on the ground burns TONS (literally) of fuel.
Further, YOU CHOSE to pay the upgrade to first (which, I concede, is a ripoff) on the connecting carrier the next day.
DID YOU CALL your travel agent in Canada? You should have- they could have worked something out. But you haven't mentioned that you did.
The predicament of a long ground delay due to wintry weather is not AC's fault, so you're owed nothing there.
And the expense of the connection upgrade was something you took on voluntarily, so you're owed nothing there.
But, as was said above, if it was all on one ticket, then you might get something for the misconnect. But probably not, as it was due to weather. Full flights aren't anybody's fault, either, so don't expect them to have much patience to your whine about having to upgrade.
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1971 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6336 times:
As noted, it was winter, delays should expected. To be honest I'm not sure why you are complaining about your plane not having ice on its wings and taking off with enough fuel to get you to your destination. If anything, go complain to the GTAA for having the tower cause the line-up for take-off resulting in the delay
reifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6251 times:
I would agree with the posters before. It's quite unlucky, but these things happen, it's out of AC's control...
However in Shanghai they could have tried to put you on standby on all the flights. I do agree that this would have been very stressful for you, and need to wait every time to get a seat on economy or be stranded again, but this would have been the only other option than paying for the upgrade... Maybe there would have been some multi-connecting segments available, i.e. via Beijing or somewhere else, but I guess around chinese New year everything is full anyway.
I would nevertheless write to customer care and if you felt not treaten right or not being assisted enough in Shanghai by their staff.