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Is 3-4-3 On A 777 Really That Bad?  
User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 400 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6186 times:
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From all the comments and TR it seems that this type of configuration is really uncomfortable. So I am asking, is it really that bad? Isn't it simply a 757 style seat in terms of width?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6139 times:

Quoting zhiao (Thread starter):
From all the comments and TR it seems that this type of configuration is really uncomfortable. So I am asking, is it really that bad? Isn't it simply a 757 style seat in terms of width?

It's not just the seat cushion width but armrests are also narrow and the gap between the seats is narrower so you're closer to your neighbour. Aisles are also very narrow. Overall it's just less pleasant than 9-abreast. Put 10 people in the space of 9 and it can't help but be less desirable. Also means a somewhat higher probability of a middle seat since 40% of the seats are middle seats, compared to 33% at 9-abreast.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Try a 10-abreast DC-10 with 29" seat pitch...then welcome to my Omni Air Intl rotator home last December!

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

Look at these pictures. Both B777s, both Air New Zealand.

10 abreast:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nicholas Young



9 abreast:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christian Waser



Look at how narrow the aisle is in the 10 abreast photo, vice how open the 9 abreast cabin is.

Now ... in which aircraft would you rather fly?



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5967 times:
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Would 3-5-3 in an A380 still be better?

User currently onlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

It's tighter, but it's far from unbearable. Most of the people you hear going off their heads about it have never been on a 10 abreast 777... I can tell you that I didn't notice all that much of a difference between an EK 77W and the BA 77W, aside from the width of the aisles. The seats and armrests felt identical.

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quoting zhiao (Thread starter):
Is 3-4-3 On A 777 Really That Bad?

Yes

Quoting zhiao (Reply 4):
Would 3-5-3 in an A380 still be better?

No



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5893 times:

Quoting zhiao (Thread starter):
From all the comments and TR it seems that this type of configuration is really uncomfortable. So I am asking, is it really that bad?

Yes it really is that bad, its noticably more cramped everyone is pushed up against the person next to them it was very unpleasent. It was only on a 3 hour flight but it was enough to put EK on my shit list.



BV
User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5893 times:
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Is the seat the same width as on a 737?

User currently offlinerogercamel From Singapore, joined Feb 2012, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5893 times:

It really depends who you end up sitting next to.  

The extra space in 3-3-3 helps a little, but you can still get freaks next to you - earlier this week the person next to me started cutting his finger nails after take off - then moved on to his toe nails... not even 3-3-3 could rescue this! I got lost on my way back from the loo.


User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 492 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5860 times:

Quoting zhiao (Thread starter):

From all the comments and TR it seems that this type of configuration is really uncomfortable. So I am asking, is it really that bad? Isn't it simply a 757 style seat in terms of width?

Yes, it is really that bad. Also because you are flying 12+ hrs.

The 757 seat is already hell on a 6 hour flight, especially if you are used to flying 8-abreast A330 or 9 abreast 777.

And also, my shoulder width is 19". That does not fit in an 17" seat.


User currently offlinegeorgiaame From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5825 times:

The other side of this coin is that I remember 3-4-2 on the early 747s. THAT was a great way to fly! Alas, it's been downhill ever since. And why anyone thinks 3-3-3 is comfortable is beyond me...


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

I've been on two carriers with 3-4-3 77W's and I can say, as a fairly large person, It's not THAT bad. Given, anyone would rather be on 3-3-3 (or even 2-4-2), but it really isn't. EK seemed to cut more seat space as opposed to aisle space, while ANZ cut more aisle space. I have to say, getting out of the ANZ 777 was hell, aisles were cramped, and people wouldn't wait to get off.

Besides that, A340 all the way!   



A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B738 B744 B763 B772 B77W B787 Q400 E190
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
It's tighter, but it's far from unbearable. Most of the people you hear going off their heads about it have never been on a 10 abreast 777... I can tell you that I didn't notice all that much of a difference between an EK 77W and the BA 77W, aside from the width of the aisles. The seats and armrests felt identical.

Yes, it IS unbearable! Obviously this is a personal opinion but I found my 4 sectors (2x8 hours & 2x6 hours) on EKs 10 abreast B77W to be actually painful and extremely uncomfortable. Your kilometerage may vary! I also found the cabins cramped, dark and generally unpleasant, again personal opinion. As Viscount724 said in reply1:
"It's not just the seat cushion width but armrests are also narrow and the gap between the seats is narrower so you're closer to your neighbour."

I now go out of my way to avoid 10 abreast B777. Its not just a case of who is cheapest. For my forth coming trip to North America I was disposed to fly NZ and pay the extra $A200 for newer aircraft and better service, but when the B77W was introduced I chose to go with UA, down the back on the ever reliable B744!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinefaddypainter From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Although my only experience on the 10 abreast 777 Y class is flying EK on a BHX-DXB-KIX return routing. I still say in all honesty it isn't as bad as most people on here go on about. Legroom is all that makes the difference to me. (but being 6' 4" I don't think I will ever find a comfortable Y seat on any aircraft ever!)

My only complaint would be during meal service, it's hard to use a knife and fork without ramming your elbows into your neighbours body.

Apart from that I didn't find the flights felt cramped width-wise, that's more than can be said for a 2-4-2 Thomson 763 I flew to SFB a few years back. I could never complain about 777's after that!   


User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

It is bad ... but the person you sit next to makes the difference between "bad" and "that bad".

I recently flew on Emirates between Dubai and Bangkok ... and although I had a window seat, my neighbour to the left wanted to share his hairy arm with me the entire flight. Even as I nudged him several times to keep his arm on the arm rest (and not beyond into my space), it keeps returning.

The only option left (short of a shouting match) was to wrap myself in the blanket - which by the way is so thin it does nothing to keep one warm - and mitigate the feeling that my neighbour's hairy arm offers.

Earlier, I got off the Emirates flight from Houston to Dubai ... that one was a flight from hell ... there must have been at least 40 children (not counting babies) ... and their parents seem to think that once the aircraft is aloft, the entire plane is a fair ground for the visiting circus. Even in the midst of turbulence and the "fasten seat belt" sign is lit and the announcement made, many adults on this flight remain permanently fixed to the spot near the galley or emergency exit. Perhaps they did not want to return to their seat because they too hate the 10-abreast configuration.

I have previously flown on 10-abreast B777s with Thai, Air France and KLM ... yes, they too were cramped but it was not terribly unpleasant as my recent flights on Emirates. It is at the end of the day who you fly with that decides on your state of mind after the flight.

I walked off the plane feeling absolutely rotten ... even as I generally love flying.

KC Sim


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7212 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 10):
The 757 seat is already hell on a 6 hour flight, especially if you are used to flying 8-abreast A330 or 9 abreast 777.

A middle seat on a trans-atlantic 757 is a disaster. If it wasnt for DL IFE, I would have gone crazy.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

The worst thing I found about my 10 abreast EK experiences was the comfort, (or lack thereof), of the seat itself, no the width. I've spent 6 hour flights on a 17" wide 737 seat without a worry but after an hour or so on EK's 777's, my butt was already past numb to painful.

The cushions, ergonomics...everything just sucked...and really the least sucky thing was the 10 abreast configuration.

That being said, 9 abreast on an SQ 777 was fantastic...no need to worry about an upgrade.



What the...?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13257 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5190 times:
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Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
Look at how narrow the aisle is in the 10 abreast photo, vice how open the 9 abreast cabin is.

Now ... in which aircraft would you rather fly?

Which will customers pay for? Any customer willing to pay more is probably up in J. Otherwise too many seats are filled with 'internet specials.'

For airlines such as EK that try to minimize both J and Y expenses, I can see trying to push customers to upgrade.

In today's single digit profit margins, cost goes directly to charged fare. If the market will not pay more for 9-across Y... then there is no choice but to cram in more seats.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Germany, joined Feb 2009, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5149 times:

OK, all this moaning about 10 across on a 777; why not vote with your wallet and fly with someone that is 9 across instead. Yes Emirates or Etihad are painful on a long flight, so fly instead with Qatar - better service as well etc

User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4655 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5106 times:

That 10 abreast looks terrible. The Aisles are dangerously narrow, I could see big problems during an emergency evacuation.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5064 times:

Any economy seat on a long haul flight is bad.

One thing I have seen is that some people have commented that the ANA 787s are only ok in comfort. They are the widest economy seats in the sky and have 33 inches of pitch which is above industry standard. Yet somehow no one says they are comfortable.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5059 times:

The only ten-abreast 777 flights have been on domestic Japan flights that last a little north of one hour. For that duration is tolerable. Not on a long-haul flight. Any carrier/aircraft combo, I stay away from even if they are cheaper.

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 19):
OK, all this moaning about 10 across on a 777; why not vote with your wallet and fly with someone that is 9 across instead.

Except that most people do vote with their wallets and go with whoever is cheaper regardless of aircraft configuration.
Only seasoned travellers and A-net members do really care.


User currently offlinezhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5003 times:
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Wow, I can't imagine being overweight and being in that configuration

User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5736 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
I can tell you that I didn't notice all that much of a difference between an EK 77W and the BA 77W
Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
it's far from unbearable

I agree. Having flown EK 777s many many times I really don't have an issue with it. I once flew the entire way from MAN to BNE in middle seats and it was fine. (For the record I'm 176cm and 70kg - so not that big but still about average)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
25 jetfuel : It should be outlawed by the WHO. EK is a low cost economy airline. Its dangerous and terrible
26 qf002 : I guess it really does come down to the individual reaction to the space. I'm tall and broad, so I feel at least a little bit cramped in any Y seat o
27 gemuser : But that is exactly what I now do! No more B77W 10 abreast, I avoid them like the plague, see reply 13. I will pay for 9 abreast on a B77W or 10 abre
28 9V-SVC : Just flown on EK's 3-4-3 77L and it was not the worst 3-4-3 777 I had flown on. While the seats were narrow, the seat pitch was reasonable. A few time
29 byronicle6 : The only 10 abreast 77W flights I have been on are EK AKL-MEL & BNE-AKL which are only 3-4 hours. I didn't have any problems with it but I can see
30 planejamie : I've flown EK 10 abreast and I wowed never to fly EK again and never to fly a 10 abreast 777 again. It is awful. I consider myself "average sized" th
31 EricAY05 : Here's something I don't think anyone has mentioned. I've flown two times on a T7 with the mentioned configuration. EK and KL. Both times I was seated
32 qf002 : BA has 17.5" seats in Y on all their long haul aircraft (at least according to the 3 websites I've just checked that on). EK's seats are marginally n
33 longhauler : Yes, EK's seats are half an inch narrower, (big pencil), But as some mention, that is not the only issue. It is also the width (or lack of) of the ar
34 qf002 : It's definitely not an ideal setup (but there's no such thing as a properly comfortable setup in Y) but its certainly not the torturous and mental il
35 Viscount724 : And I remember 2-4-2 on the early DC-10s and L-1011s, comparable to 3-4-2 on the 747s. Agree, comfortable isn't the right word but at least it's bett
36 raffik : I flew on EK's 773 and 772 and I found the seating comfortable- with good leg room too. I am not thin and there was plenty of room. The 9 a breasts ar
37 ba319-131 : - I myself have found the ANA 787 longhaul seat pretty good, but I'm not tall.
38 trintocan : I have to agree with those who dislike 10-abreast 777s on long-haul services. The first 2 flights of mine on 777s were on BA 777-200IGWs between TAB a
39 AirbusA6 : I flew on AF to Cuba last xmas, and yes it was cramped, and yes the narrower aisle width was noticeable. It's the sort of configuration which works if
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