Sponsor Message:
Travel Polls & Prefs Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Connecting From DL To KL At Non-hub Airports  
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5842 times:

I am getting ready to book a work-related trip for later this year from BZN to HAM. I prefer to fly Delta/SkyTeam. The Delta.com booking engine gives me the predictable 2-stop itineraries connecting over MSP/AMS, MSP/CDG, SLC/CDG, SEA/AMS, etc., with the TATL leg always being on DL metal. However, if I get creative with the multi-city search option, I can get some more interesting itineraries, like a 3-stop option connecting through SLC/ORD/AMS, with the TATL leg on KLM's 744-Combi. That particular routing actually ends up being cheaper than the standard options.

Here is the first question: Is there any reason that I might have problems making a DL-KL connection at airports like ORD, IAH or IAD that aren't usual connecting points for either carrier? Will I be able to check in for all 4 legs at once, and have my bags checked through?

Second question: I am a DL Silver Medallion, and I understand what my privileges are when flying on Delta, but I don't know quite what to expect from KLM. Can I still get access to preferred seating at booking time? Do I get my standard bonus miles? Is there any opportunity (however slim) for complimentary upgrades? Depending on the itinerary I select, I could have KL flights with DL codes, KL flights with KL codes, or DL flights with KL codes. Does that make any difference? I'm also considering an add-on trip that would include a PS flight with a KL code.

Thanks in advance for any help that you all can offer!


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

And a third related question: I mentioned the possible add-on trip in the original post. I'm hoping to add a few days in Kiev. My plan right now is to take a cheap AirBaltic flight from HAM to KBP, then on the way home, I'll be flying KBP-AMS-(USA) with KL/DL. With this sort of a connection at AMS (Non-Schengen origin and non-Schengen destination) is there any passport control or customs involved? Thanks again.


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Thread starter):
Here is the first question: Is there any reason that I might have problems making a DL-KL connection at airports like ORD, IAH or IAD that aren't usual connecting points for either carrier? Will I be able to check in for all 4 legs at once, and have my bags checked through?

Please don't connect at ORD. It's really bad for international-domestic connections.

You might get your bag tagged, but you'll have to take it from T5 to T2 yourself and check it back in via a check-in desk. You have priority so maybe not that bad, but still, not that good either.

Quoting redzeppelin (Thread starter):
Depending on the itinerary I select, I could have KL flights with DL codes, KL flights with KL codes, or DL flights with KL codes. Does that make any difference? I'm also considering an add-on trip that would include a PS flight with a KL code.

Not really. Depends on how you want to choose your seats. DL's site gives me errors when trying to select a seat on a KL code. I think KL's site is better with DL codes but I'm not sure.

Edit: look at the mileage accrual on the DL site, and the fare basis for each flight. That's the only other difference.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 1):
And a third related question: I mentioned the possible add-on trip in the original post. I'm hoping to add a few days in Kiev. My plan right now is to take a cheap AirBaltic flight from HAM to KBP, then on the way home, I'll be flying KBP-AMS-(USA) with KL/DL. With this sort of a connection at AMS (Non-Schengen origin and non-Schengen destination) is there any passport control or customs involved? Thanks again.

No passport control/customs. Just security.

[Edited 2012-06-18 08:56:30]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 2):
Please don't connect at ORD. It's really bad for international-domestic connections.

IAH won't be much better. The outbound connection will involve a train ride from A to D, while the inbound connection would involve carrying the bag on the landside train from D to A, where he can recheck it on DL.

IAD is probably your best bet if you are going to do this. DL and KL are both in A/B, so the outbound connection is easy, and it's a quick walk from the international arrivals building to DL checkin.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5786 times:

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 2):

Thanks for the input. I'm having way too much fun with the delta.com multi-city search option, trying to force itineraries on KL metal with unusual connections through several of their North American gateways. I worked out one itinerary that would route me home via AMS/YUL/MSP, flying on the M11 from AMS to YUL. The price was slightly less than taking the DL flight straight from AMS to MSP. But the connection time in YUL would be very tight, so probably not the best choice, given that I would need to pre-clear US customs in YUL. But I'm still surprised that delta.com even let me do that one. When I try to arrange the outbound via YUL it keeps telling me that it can't process the request.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
IAD is probably your best bet if you are going to do this. DL and KL are both in A/B, so the outbound connection is easy, and it's a quick walk from the international arrivals building to DL checkin.

Thanks. My main motivation here is to try and log KLM's 74M or M11. It look like they are operating the A333 to IAD on the dates I need, so that's less attractive, but I'm glad to know that IAD might be smoother than the other options. I'm also playing with LAX-AMS, which is giving conflicting information right now about whether it is the 74M or 744. Any body know for sure? I'm looking in October.

[Edited 2012-06-18 09:19:58]


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 4):
Thanks for the input. I'm having way too much fun with the delta.com multi-city search option, trying to force itineraries on KL metal with unusual connections through several of their North American gateways. I worked out one itinerary that would route me home via AMS/YUL/MSP, flying on the M11 from AMS to YUL. The price was slightly less than taking the DL flight straight from AMS to MSP. But the connection time in YUL would be very tight, so probably not the best choice, given that I would need to pre-clear US customs in YUL. But I'm still surprised that delta.com even let me do that one. When I try to arrange the outbound via YUL it keeps telling me that it can't process the request.

I certainly understand your reasons--I recently booked AMS-YUL to get my 2nd flight on the M11  


I think it wouldn't be wise to connect AMS-YUL-MSP. I believe, though I'm not sure, that you have to go through Canadian immigration and then US pre-clearance, which sounds very time-consuming. I'd probably say to stop a day in Montreal if you want to do that. I believe YUL has a left luggage office if that's bothersome for you.

I'd say it's worth it to get a M11.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 5):
Thanks. My main motivation here is to try and log KLM's 74M or M11. It look like they are operating the A333 to IAD on the dates I need, so that's less attractive, but I'm glad to know that IAD might be smoother than the other options. I'm also playing with LAX-AMS, which is giving conflicting information right now about whether it is the 74M or 744. Any body know for sure? I'm looking in October.

If you're looking at this strictly for the 74M, then Chicago is a good bet.

Looking at LAX schedules... Seems to be a combination of 74M and 744 on different days. So if the day isn't fixed, you can find which aircraft will be flying. DL seems to show this on their flight schedules.

KL flies the M11 to ATL, do they not? Or is that to late in the day to connect to BZN?


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 6):
KL flies the M11 to ATL, do they not? Or is that to late in the day to connect to BZN?

I've been looking at ATL too. The inbound M11 comes in too late for connecting back to BZN, and the outbound gets to AMS too late for my preferred onward itinerary... This is what happens when I try to squeeze too much into into a short trip. I have a work conference to go to in HAM, and I'm trying to arrange for a day trip to Denmark to see the village that many of my ancestors are from prior to the conference. After the conference I want to go spend a weekend in Ukraine to reconnect with some people and places there. And I'm trying to keep the trip as short as possible to avoid upsetting my wife too much. So I should probably stick with the simplest flight plans with the best connections, but I can't resist the temptation to add something interesting to my flight log.

The M11 probably won't happen on this trip, but the 74M seems realistic. Cubsrule pointed out that the logistics are a mess at ORD, but the connection times are pretty good there in both directions. As for LAX, it wouldn't work on the return, but might work on the outbound if I can make the terminal transfer. Another option I looked at that seems to have really good connections is going through SLC/YYC/AMS on the outbound leg. The equipment is A332, so not as rare as the others, but it still gives me a chance to try KLM's long-haul product.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9503 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

When you connect via an airport that rarely has connections, you always run a higher risk of baggage being lost. Also if you get into irregular operations, your options are far more limited.

Also when connecting via airports that don’t typically see connections between two airlines, the transfer can be longer. ORD and IAH are both pretty bad for connections. SEA, SLC or MSP on the other hand are relatively seamless.

If you give yourself time, you can do it, but give yourself plenty of time for reclearing security and it is always good to give the bags plenty of time too. It can be fun, but I wouldn’t recommend it to the non aviation fan to do a triple connection to save money.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 6):
I think it wouldn't be wise to connect AMS-YUL-MSP. I believe, though I'm not sure, that you have to go through Canadian immigration and then US pre-clearance, which sounds very time-consuming.

No, it's very easy. At YUL and one or two other Canadian airports, if you're connecting from an international flight to a U.S. transborder flight you bypass Canadian immigration and don't even have to claim your bags. You go directly to U.S. pre-clearance. And I would much prefer to clear U.S. formalities in Canada than on arrival in the U.S. where lines are often much longer and more unpleasant.

I believe YUL was the first airport in Canada to implement those connecting procedures.


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
IAD is probably your best bet if you are going to do this.

This got me thinking, and I realized the opportunity to try the AF A380 service. Turns out that there is a pretty nice looking connection opportunity there. So right now I'm leaning toward taking the IAD/A380 option outbound. My final destination is HAM, and it looks like I can get either a 90-minute or a 4-hour connection to HAM. Is 90 minutes enough at CDG? My only previous experience there was the other way around: connecting FRA-CDG-SLC. I had just over 2 hours for that one, and barely made it.

I'm still debating the return route. I'll probably take a nice, easy, DL-approved itinerary through AMS and MSP, but I'm still considering the KL 74M through Chicago. My work is paying for the trip, and luckily our travel manager is willing to humor me with these things, as long as it doesn't affect the price too much. In this case, there are a lot of options. Thanks everyone for your input.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 10):
This got me thinking, and I realized the opportunity to try the AF A380 service. Turns out that there is a pretty nice looking connection opportunity there. So right now I'm leaning toward taking the IAD/A380 option outbound. My final destination is HAM, and it looks like I can get either a 90-minute or a 4-hour connection to HAM. Is 90 minutes enough at CDG? My only previous experience there was the other way around: connecting FRA-CDG-SLC. I had just over 2 hours for that one, and barely made it.

Hi again...
For a non-Schengen to Schengen connection at CDG I'd be uncomfortable to have anything less than 2 hours. You can probably make the 90-minute connection, provided everything works smoothly, but to have peace of mind... 4 hours is better. That's what I'd do.


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

Update:
I booked the flight today. I'm not going to get the M11 or 74M on this trip, but I am taking a slightly unconventional route, getting several new airports and taking KLM both ways over the Atlantic. I'm also dropping my tag-on to KBP in favor of spending some extra time in Denmark. Final routing is BZN-SLC-YYC-AMS-HAM, returning CPH-AMS-YVR-SLC-BZN. AMS-YVR on the return will be my first ever 772. The stops in Canada both had pretty good connection times, and DL does offer those routes for sale as valid connections from SLC to AMS, so I feel pretty good about it. Wish me luck.

Side note for interested parties:
I booked through delta.com, and used the multi-city search option to build the trip as a 4-leg itinerary (BZN-YYC, YYC-HAM, CPH-YVR, YVR-BZN). Price was pretty much identical to a 2-stop routing through MSP/AMS and flying DL metal over the Atlantic. I was a little concerned about how the 4-part nature of it would affect me on check-in, or if there was a schedule change between now and my travel dates, but it looks like everything will be fine. Delta figured out that it is an out-and-back trip, and it immediately showed up in my SkyMiles "My Trips" section as 2 flights rather than 4.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 784 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 5301 times:

I can't answer anything about connections (since my intra-SkyTeam connections are done at hub airports), but I can answer this part:

Quoting redzeppelin (Thread starter):
Second question: I am a DL Silver Medallion, and I understand what my privileges are when flying on Delta, but I don't know quite what to expect from KLM. Can I still get access to preferred seating at booking time? Do I get my standard bonus miles? Is there any opportunity (however slim) for complimentary upgrades?

1. My experience with KLM has shown that they tend to sit SkyTeam Elite/Elite Plus people up front: for intra-Europe flights, this normally means getting rows 4 or 5, while for long-haul, this means getting the first few rows after Economy Comfort, or a bulkhead if available (although KLM charges now for reserving bulkheads in advance).

2. Yes, you will get your standard bonus miles which will post along with your regular miles.

3. No free upgrades at all for Medallions on KLM. Paid upgrades are possible when booked on fare classes Y, B or M (and I believe K when flying with Air France).


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Connecting From QF To UAx At LAX posted Fri Apr 20 2012 12:58:01 by Yflyer
Connecting Flights Int'l To Int'l At NRT posted Mon Aug 2 2010 00:30:58 by HT
Connecting From JFK To LGA posted Mon Jun 2 2008 23:46:25 by Ssides
How Long From Deplane To Bart At SFO? posted Wed Jun 6 2007 00:04:31 by Boston92
Connecting At GRU From LAN To KLM posted Wed Jan 11 2012 06:37:43 by FlyingHollander
Connecting At BOS: Intl DL To DOM DL posted Tue Oct 4 2011 13:30:10 by B747forever
Going From AS To DL At PDX Vs. SEA posted Thu Jul 8 2010 07:03:20 by SiouxATC
Worst Airports In America To Connect At posted Mon Apr 16 2012 10:23:21 by LAXintl
DL To UA CNX At NRT posted Sat Jan 21 2012 21:12:02 by WeAreUnited
Flying From USA(MIA) To HAV As Non-US Citizen/Res posted Mon Jun 20 2011 16:29:40 by Aeroflot001