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What If Passenger Doesn't Listen To FA?  
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6962 times:

So I was flying ORD-IAD the other day and the lady who was sitting in the row in front of me kept texting on her phone despite the cabin door being closed and all the security announcements have been made. During the final security check, one of the flight attendants caught her and said very politely if she could turn off her phone immediately (note that this was as we were taxiing for take-off). The lady ignored him and kept texting. FA then raised his voice and said "ma'am, turn off your phone NOW!". She kept ignoring him at which point the captain informed all FAs for take-off so he went to take a seat (assuming the lady would follow orders). But she didn't - all the passengers, including me, gazed at each other in dismay and laughed it off....she happily texted away until after take off at which point I assume she lost signal. I wonder what you would've done. Do you, as a passenger, have a duty to tell a FA (which may cause the pilot to return to the gate and kick her off = delay) or say nothing?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 761 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Disobeying a lawful command by cabin crew is an offence here in the UK under the air navigation act.

I would have advised the customer (in a loud voice so all could hear) that perhaps she was unfamiliar with travelling and unless she turned the phone off I would inform the flight crew that the cabin was not secure, resulting in the flight being potentially delayed. If that fell on deaf ears I would consider her unfit for travel and have her offloaded from the flight.

Disobeying crew at any level is the thin edge of the wedge and needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6912 times:

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 1):
Disobeying a lawful command by cabin crew is an offence here in the UK under the air navigation act.

As it is in the US.

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 1):
Disobeying crew at any level is the thin edge of the wedge and needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.

  

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 1):
I would have advised the customer (in a loud voice so all could hear) that perhaps she was unfamiliar with travelling and unless she turned the phone off I would inform the flight crew that the cabin was not secure, resulting in the flight being potentially delayed. If that fell on deaf ears I would consider her unfit for travel and have her offloaded from the flight.

Why not just pick the phone up out of her hands? Raising voices seems to be an ominous beginning to a flight.

More generally, what if the airlines made everyone watch a video at the time of booking about general Etiquette on planes?


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

I have had a similar thing happen with the person next to me, I simply said "you may not have heard the announcement to turn off all things with an on/off switch". The guy was quite unhappy that I had the nerve to even talk to him. After that attitude I just told the FA when she came by to take my drink order after we got airborne, much to this clowns surprise. It really got funny when she asked to see his phone at it was not OFF. She told him if it was not off when she brought our drinks back that security would be meeting him at the gate in PHL. We had a very cold rest of the flight to say the least!


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinebaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 761 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6810 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 2):

The raised voice usually works as it embarrasses the offending passenger into switching the phone off.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 2):
More generally, what if the airlines made everyone watch a video at the time of booking about general Etiquette on planes?

No, using phones or other electronic devices when they're not allowed isn't a matter of etiquette, it's a federal law. It's also a federal law to abide by all crewmember and FA instructions.

It always bothers me when people don't follow the rules about phones during flight. In all of my experiences, the offending passenger is caught by the FA, and complies with their request. However, if an FA didn't notice, I would absolutely notify them.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 3):
After that attitude I just told the FA when she came by to take my drink order after we got airborne, much to this clowns surprise.

You did the right thing.


User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6752 times:

I think in the near future use of phones on board will be permitted at anytime..


Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5939 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Thread starter):
the captain informed all FAs for take-off so he went to take a seat (assuming the lady would follow orders)

In my mind the FA acted wrongly. Perhaps an FA could correct me if I'm wrong but the appropriate thing to do here would be to inform the captain the cabin wasn't secure, not shrug your shoulders and take your seat. Yes it would have delayed departure, but if someone is refusing to turn the phone off and are disobeying crew instructions then the wheels shouldn't leave the ground.

Quoting B777A340Fan (Thread starter):
Do you, as a passenger, have a duty to tell a FA (which may cause the pilot to return to the gate and kick her off = delay) or say nothing?

I think so. I say this after (to my shame) not informing the flight attendants that the person sitting on the emergency exist STANK of vodka. This was last year on a 737-700 in the overawing exit row. This (obviously inebriated) gentleman was in A and I was in C. B was empty. When a flight attendant did the exit row briefing she asked if we had read the emergency exit operation card. He said he didn't need to since it was easy... all you had to do was punch it out with you fists while making loud dramatic noises (or so he evidently thought). The FA was clearly uneasy by his behaviour but since he agreed to listen to her briefing she let him off (although she kept watching him out of the corner of her eye the entire time she was talking). I sat on my hands and didn't inform her that her suspicions were correct. In doing so I unnecessarily endangered people's lives.

From then on (racked by potential guilt) I've adopted a firm line that passengers have a duty to their fellow passengers to dob on each other if one poses a potential safety risk.

Quoting September11 (Reply 6):
I think in the near future use of phones on board will be permitted at anytime..

Not at take off or landing. Maybe you might be right during cruise (say when the seat belt sign is off)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinedstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1490 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

Having been to a funeral service yesterday where no less than two phones rang loudly in the church, this addiction to being in constantly in contact with "something" is very hard to break. I was also at a funeral where a person actually answered the phone in the church, and no it was not a life or death call either. He was so unconcerned, despite the glares.

If persons cannot obey the rules, then the FAs should come down hard on them. However the airlines have some mixed messages with differing rules, some allowing taxi use, some doors open only, helping to confuse the issue.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27312 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Thread starter):
The lady ignored him and kept texting. FA then raised his voice and said "ma'am, turn off your phone NOW!". She kept ignoring him at which point the captain informed all FAs for take-off so he went to take a seat (assuming the lady would follow orders). But she didn't - all the passengers, including me, gazed at each other in dismay and laughed it off....she happily texted away until after take off at which point I assume she lost signal.

Shame they could not have taken her off the flight. If she doesnt follow orders for even the basic of things then what about in an emergency.

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 8):
Having been to a funeral service yesterday where no less than two phones rang loudly in the church, this addiction to being in constantly in contact with "something" is very hard to break. I was also at a funeral where a person actually answered the phone in the church, and no it was not a life or death call either. He was so unconcerned, despite the glares.

Indeed . Funny you mention that today I was out shopping and on my way home passed a funeral. You should see what some of the Women were wearing and deemed respectable dress. So it comes as no surprise to me about people taking calls . Totally disgusting.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):
In my mind the FA acted wrongly. Perhaps an FA could correct me if I'm wrong but the appropriate thing to do here would be to inform the captain the cabin wasn't secure, not shrug your shoulders and take your seat. Yes it would have delayed departure, but if someone is refusing to turn the phone off and are disobeying crew instructions then the wheels shouldn't leave the ground.

Hit the nail on the head.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):
He said he didn't need to since it was easy... all you had to do was punch it out with you fists while making loud dramatic noises (or so he evidently thought).

I hope he was just trying to be funny, and even if he was, that's not something to joke about to begin with.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):
From then on (racked by potential guilt) I've adopted a firm line that passengers have a duty to their fellow passengers to dob on each other if one poses a potential safety risk.

  

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 8):
If persons cannot obey the rules, then the FAs should come down hard on them.

Yep, it's a federal law...

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 8):
However the airlines have some mixed messages with differing rules, some allowing taxi use, some doors open only, helping to confuse the issue.

Mixed messages? How? The rules are always stated by the FAs - all electronics must be OFF when the main cabin door is closed, approved electronics are allowed at cruising altitude only, but must remain off during climb and descent. After landing, phones and other electronics may be used again.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 1):
Disobeying a lawful command by cabin crew is an offence here in the UK under the air navigation act.
Quoting LOWS (Reply 2):
As it is in the US.

in the US i've heard of prison times of 5-10 years for mere infractions like that.

It is a huge security risk, no questions asked. I've heard of flights getting cancelled or grounded for reasons such as this. That FA should've been all over that lady.



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Well i like to take pictures/video during takeoff and landing for my trip reports - i know technically not allowed, but take a look at youtube... On my flight last week i was asked to turn it off for takeoff/landing and i did. My opinion is that using electronic devices won't bring the plane down (backed up by the fact they use iPads on the flight deck now) but if your caught doing it then you gotta hold your hands up and admit defeat.


A300,A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,A346,A388,732,733,734,735,738,741,742,744,752,763,772,77W,788,Q400,DC10,E145,E170,E175,E19
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6389 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
in the US i've heard of prison times of 5-10 years for mere infractions like that.

It is a huge security risk, no questions asked. I've heard of flights getting cancelled or grounded for reasons such as this. That FA should've been all over that lady.

  

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 12):
using electronic devices won't bring the plane down (backed up by the fact they use iPads on the flight deck now)

Right, but are they using iPads for sending and receiving data? I thought that was the concern with phones.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 10):
The rules are always stated by the FAs - all electronics must be OFF when the main cabin door is closed, approved electronics are allowed at cruising altitude only, but must remain off during climb and descent. After landing, phones and other electronics may be used again.



I don't believe your statement is totally correct for U.S. airlines, most allow approved electronic devices to be used above 10,000' and will want them powered down when descending through 10,000' before landing. At least is what I've found to be the norm on UA as recent as last evening.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6328 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
Right, but are they using iPads for sending and receiving data? I thought that was the concern with phones.

No, but cameras don't send or receive data either.



A300,A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,A346,A388,732,733,734,735,738,741,742,744,752,763,772,77W,788,Q400,DC10,E145,E170,E175,E19
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6324 times:

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 12):
Well i like to take pictures/video during takeoff and landing for my trip reports - i know technically not allowed, but take a look at youtube... On my flight last week i was asked to turn it off for takeoff/landing and i did. My opinion is that using electronic devices won't bring the plane down (backed up by the fact they use iPads on the flight deck now) but if your caught doing it then you gotta hold your hands up and admit defeat.

What will you do if one day there is a crash? Go to the families of the diseased and say you're sorry for thinking you knew better than the people who evaluated and recommended the ban? Should they just happily say - well since it didn't create a crash every time that's fine.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6259 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
I don't believe your statement is totally correct for U.S. airlines, most allow approved electronic devices to be used above 10,000' and will want them powered down when descending through 10,000' before landing.

Yes, thanks for the correction. I believe that 10,000 feet is correct. (not cruising altitude, which is what I said)

Quoting cmf (Reply 16):

... What?   


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5157 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6257 times:

In Canada the rules are pretty black and white. (As I am sure they are in the United States)

If a passenger does not comply with a Crew Member's request after the doors have been closed, then the "disruptive passenger" checklist starts.

The Flight Attendant would then advise the Captain that he/she has a "disruptive passenger", and what level has been reached. I wont go into details, for obvious security reasons, but ... even at the lowest level, the aircraft is stopped (if still on the ground), and the problem is addressed. The most common solution is the return to the gate, and have the "problem" removed, usually in handcuffs.

I can't imagine why this process was not followed, in this instance.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 2):
Why not just pick the phone up out of her hands? Raising voices seems to be an ominous beginning to a flight.

No sense starting a physical altercation. If the passenger will not comply, then the passenger is removed. The law is pretty cut and dry, no grey area.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6213 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 2):
Why not just pick the phone up out of her hands? Raising voices seems to be an ominous beginning to a flight

You can't do that. There was a case recently in Hamburg in a suburban train where a young lady made a phone call , speaking quite loud. The passengers asked her to stop and one guy picked the phone and threw it out of nthe window. He was charged and she can sue for damages.

In an aircraft it is up to the FAs to handle the situation and if needed the captain can return to the gate and off-load the passenger.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinebaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 761 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6199 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):

I disagree. Anything that poses a threat to the safe operation of the aircraft can and should be removed from that person and made safe. I confiscated a mobile when a passenger refused to turn it off, both the flight crew and the company backed me up 100% for doing so!

IMO there is no grey area when it comes to the safety of myself, my crew and my passengers, if it says off its gotta be OFF end of story.

Quite clearly the case in Hamburg is wholly different.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

Assuming that you are flight crew, I said that:


[quote=PanHAM,reply=19]In an aircraft it is up to the FAs to handle the situation and if needed the captain can return to the gate and off-load the passenger.[/quote



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5157 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 20):
I confiscated a mobile when a passenger refused to turn it off, both the flight crew and the company backed me up 100% for doing so!


There is a very subtle difference between "confiscating" an illegal object in use, and "taking/grabbing" it from a passenger starting an altercation. And yes, it has happened!

In my opinion, its far easier and safer to remain a distance away, and if the passenger will not shut off the offending device ... fine, you were asked once, now you are getting off, in handcuffs and charged. No negotiation, no second chance, just off. No altercation. Best to leave that to the professionals.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):
Quoting cmf (Reply 16):

... What?   

What ?


User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6182 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 16):

Once again, i state that if they use an iPad on the flight deck, then how is that any different to using a camera in the cabin?



A300,A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,A346,A388,732,733,734,735,738,741,742,744,752,763,772,77W,788,Q400,DC10,E145,E170,E175,E19
25 longhauler : If any electronic device is approved for use in the cockpit, it is thoroughly tested for use in that location only. For example, while I am allowed t
26 cmf : What longhauler said. In addition. Just because it doesn't cause problems every time doesn't mean it doesn't create problems sometimes. How will you
27 legacyins : I was on a UA flight one time when they made the usual "electronics off" announcement. About three minutes later, the crew announced that they had a s
28 airbuseric : Agreed! The FA should've informed to the cabin supervisor and take off should not have happened as long as that particular passenger did not comply t
29 jwhite9185 : That's the point I made earlier in the thread. Whilst I can't see how a few milliamps from a battery can cause any major interference, I still obeyed
30 cmf : If so there would be no problem but per your earlier post you knowingly ignored instructions and only if caught would " hold your hands up and admit
31 Post contains images AlnessW : Hit the nail on the head. I was confused by this: Some seriously gullible people in the wold these days... Huh?
32 cmf : Explain your issues in sentences and we can discuss.
33 BC77008 : I wouldn't say you have a duty, although it would be appreciated. Or you could ask him/her yourself why he/she believes that they are somehow above t
34 baexecutive : EXACTLY, I could care less if your phone/camera/iPad/kindle etc is on but if it's in my view then it's my responsibility to act on it.
35 Post contains images AlnessW : Sure. I don't get what point you're trying to make here: What exactly does this mean? Are you trying to be funny? I'm sorry, I'm just confused here..
36 ATCtower : While I must say, the woman was certainly a world class B, she disobeyed a direct order from a member of the flight crew and should have been ostraciz
37 Post contains images PHX787 : Remeber that Mythbusters episode where they actually tested the impact of such objects and found it to be a myth? Well I believe someone in the FAA a
38 PanHAM : we have a similar situation in Germany where you can't use cellphones in hospitals. The actiual reason for that is, that the hospitals rip off patient
39 Post contains images AlnessW : Hit the nail on the head. I do remember that episode. Typical FAA.
40 NorthstarBoy : I always take a mind my own business attitude. No one's life is in danger because someone's listening to their ipod or banging away on their laptop, o
41 LTBEWR : One other reason for not allowing the use of electronic devices from pushback from the gate to a certain point in a flight is to make sure passengers
42 Post contains images HAWK21M : Warn the Pax.....Finally use the Tiewraps
43 AlnessW : Is my safety and the safety of everyone on board not my business? Is obeying federal laws not my business? What? Why? Well you are certainly entitled
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