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Merge U2 And BA Short-haul To New BEA?  
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9575 times:

Why doesn't BA spin off its short-haul network and merge it with U2 and rename it BEA ?

(British European Airways)

To operate seperately (in cooperation with BA) as a member of Oneworld with main bases at LGW and LHR ?

U2 isn't exactly low cost anymore is it and it would be another good step in the consolidation game.


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9587 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
Why doesn't BA spin off its short-haul network and merge it with U2 and rename it BEA ?

   One of the most absurd idea I've heard in a long, long time.

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
U2 isn't exactly low cost anymore is it and it would be another good step in the consolidation game.

I see extremely little benefit for EZY: it doesn't need to be with BA for financial success. If anything, it'd hold it back.

[Edited 2012-08-06 06:08:23]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7644 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9568 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
Why doesn't BA spin off its short-haul network

I was under the impression that BA has already done that by eliminating the bulk of their domestic network and only kept those essential for its long haul network.


Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
To operate seperately (in cooperation with BA) as a member of Oneworld with main bases at LGW and LHR ?

Why go through the hassel when they can just A. Give up routes (already done) or B. Code share or buy X number of seats with existing LCC's?


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9571 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
One of the most absurd idea I've heard in a long, long time.

Oh you're so predicatble Pe@rson.

Big rasberry blown in your direction.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
: it doesn't need to be with BA for financial success.

Maybe they could be 'more' successful feeding Oneworld aswell ??

[Edited 2012-08-06 06:10:31]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9543 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 3):
Oh you're so predicatble Pe@rson.

I'm glad I'm not predictable.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 3):
Maybe they could be 'more' successful feeding Oneworld aswell ??

Why would they want to complicate their operation so much? They already have very high seat load factors. There would need to be a BIG revenue upside from the incurred costs, complexity, and reduced productivity.

This idea is a complete non-starter.  

[Edited 2012-08-06 06:14:30]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9521 times:

Interesting idea..
Is BA's European network that unprofitable? And why is BA's short haul network out of LGW losing money when on the other hand Easyjet's flights (presumably) turn a profit?



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9477 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):

Why doesn't BA spin off its short-haul network and merge it with U2 and rename it BEA ?

(British European Airways)

To operate seperately (in cooperation with BA) as a member of Oneworld with main bases at LGW and LHR ?

U2 isn't exactly low cost anymore is it and it would be another good step in the consolidation game.

A certain outfit in Exeter might have a few words about that !

Seriously "Feed" interlining and connections are the elements that make legacy short hauls unprofitable (in accounting).

If BA really want to divest interest in LGW short hauls (as per Skipness assertions after 2015 ) i think Flybe will want cut.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9401 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
A certain outfit in Exeter might have a few words about that !

Yes....no reason why Flybe cannot join the party ?

Quoting raffik (Reply 5):
Interesting idea..

Thank you raffik.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9363 times:

No reason why it cant work - assuming U2 management were willing. I think their brand is too strong for them to even think about it at this stage though.

I see more synergies with the likes of Aer Lingus. Merge the whole short-haul shebang with BA's LGW eurofleet and operate it as a dual hub - DUB and LGW. Go A319/20/21 for fleet and push the whole thing low-cost - ala AB. Only the long-haul A330s out of DUB have a premium product.

Rename the whole thing and merge it into OneWorld. Possibly sell a minority stake to AB.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2773 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9272 times:
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Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
One of the most absurd idea I've heard in a long, long time.

Right, tell that to Lufthansa which is increasingly using Germanwings for its intra-European network, especially from secondary Germany cities.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9209 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 9):
Right, tell that to Lufthansa which is increasingly using Germanwings for its intra-European network, especially from secondary Germany cities.

It is absurd (joining forces and becoming a oneworld member) because EZY would gain minimal benefits when they are already very strong. Granted, it would offer a wider market and increased revenue opportunities, but they already have very high load factors. Personally, I can't see it offsetting the increased costs and operational complexity it would entail given it would radically change EZY's existence.

As for LH and 4U, that is different: LH already owns 4U. I cannot for the life of me see EZY agreeing to it because they don't need it. Whether BA creates a new subsidary, akin to Iberia Express, to help turnaround loss-making short-haul routes remains to be seen. But I believe that Keith Williams, BA's CEO, has stated in a recent edition of Airline Business that they don't intend to.

[Edited 2012-08-06 07:12:14]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11701 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
U2 isn't exactly low cost anymore is it and it would be another good step in the consolidation game.

Low cost refers to the business model, not to the fares offered. I don't agree that there has been a diversion away from the LCC model.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
A certain outfit in Exeter might have a few words about that !

They are seeing some of their better yielding routes destroyed by easyJet.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 7):
Yes....no reason why Flybe cannot join the party ?

I think the (co)existence of FlyBe and easyJet is going to become interesting in the future anyway.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9133 times:

Must be the week of 'stupid topics' I guess? First the Ryanair boarding in Budapest topic and now this one.    But please tell me, why on earth would it be a good idea for easyJet to merge with their loss-making competitor while they are already by far the biggest carrier at Gatwick?


'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2129 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9051 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 12):
Must be the week of 'stupid topics' I guess?

  

Pretty much sums it up.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9011 times:

Mikey72 what have you been smoking lately. You're intentionally stirring a pot you know too well.

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
To operate seperately (in cooperation with BA) as a member of Oneworld with main bases at LGW and LHR ?

Product disparity is probelmatic enough between a LGW B737-436 and a long haul out of LHR. Please don't pretend that there is a commercial justification for an EZY product feeding an F class B777-336ER. Utterly ludicrous idea, though I suspect as I said you are just bored and being contentious for a laugh.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9005 times:

Quoting col (Reply 13):
Pretty much sums it up.

I wonder if years ago anybody asked if UA would ever merge with CO or DL with NW ?

Or wondered whether an airline based in the middle east would become the worlds largest international carrier with a fleet of hundreds of VLA's operating from a massive mega-hub ?

Or if IB would merge with BA or KL with AF ?

Or if most of the worlds major airlines would form 3 massive alliances dominating air travel for hundreds of millions of people ?



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8983 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 15):
I wonder if years ago anybody asked if UA would ever merge with CO or DL with NW ?

Consolidating of legacy network carriers is the same as merging a legacy network with a loco. Discuss with reference to apples and pears.


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2129 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 15):
I wonder if years ago anybody asked if UA would ever merge with CO or DL with NW ?

Or wondered whether an airline based in the middle east would become the worlds largest international carrier with a fleet of hundreds of VLA's operating from a massive mega-hub ?

Or if IB would merge with BA or KL with AF ?

Or if most of the worlds major airlines would form 3 massive alliances dominating air travel for hundreds of millions of people ?

These things happened because there was a benefit. Think about what you have written and trying to use as an argument, then think about your post.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8985 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 15):
Quoting col (Reply 13):
Pretty much sums it up.

I wonder if years ago anybody asked if UA would ever merge with CO or DL with NW ?

Or wondered whether an airline based in the middle east would become the worlds largest international carrier with a fleet of hundreds of VLA's operating from a massive mega-hub ?

Or if IB would merge with BA or KL with AF ?

Or if most of the worlds major airlines would form 3 massive alliances dominating air travel for hundreds of millions of people ?

I notice you haven't really answered what benefits EZY would derive from it and why it would want to risk effectively changing its entire existence when it is already an inherently strong airline on its own.

[Edited 2012-08-06 08:13:54]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11701 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8936 times:

Mind you, if you merged easyJet, BA and FlyBe, then you could reconfigure some of the A319s with an all premium cabin and fly SOU-DOH four times a day      


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

There is another point here. EasyJet may be UK headquartered but they are a pan-European carrier, I'm not sure that your idea really would go down all that well in other countries. Would BEA be accepted in the French domestic market in which EZY are a major player? Or are you suggesting that EZY drop most of their network to concentrate on Gatwick?

It would be interesting to compare the two carriers (BA and EZY) in terms of their respective profits, and the number of British airports each one serves.

Alternatively are you suggesting that BA and EZY combine just their Gatwick operations to form BEA as some kind of seperate joint venture?

[Edited 2012-08-06 10:07:39]

User currently offlineTWA85 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

This might not be a bad idea in the future. Obviously BA would gain from being able to off load its higher cost short haul network on to U2's lower cost short haul network. The rest of Oneworld would gain from being able to receive intra-European feed from their European destinations outside of LHR (aka AA at CDG, MXP etc.). U2 could gain from additional revenue opportunities. Yes U2 already has a high average load factor, but affiliation with IAG/Oneworld will only add to it. Not to mention this could create more expansion opportunities for U2. Although U2's business model does not support short haul connections, it could support long haul - short haul connections. An IAG/U2 alliance could operate similar to QF/JQ group (but still different because IAG most likely would not own U2 as QF owns JQ). U2 could be the VY of the UK and the rest of Europe for BA/IAG like VY is for IB/IAG in Spain.

User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8668 times:

It would add extra costs to easyJet such as interlining baggage, transfers, etc... only to fill their already well filled aircraft slighty more? It's not worth it in my view.


'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8648 times:

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 21):
This might not be a bad idea in the future. Obviously BA would gain from being able to off load its higher cost short haul network on to U2's lower cost short haul network. The rest of Oneworld would gain from being able to receive intra-European feed from their European destinations outside of LHR (aka AA at CDG, MXP etc.). U2 could gain from additional revenue opportunities. Yes U2 already has a high average load factor, but affiliation with IAG/Oneworld will only add to it. Not to mention this could create more expansion opportunities for U2. Although U2's business model does not support short haul connections, it could support long haul - short haul connections. An IAG/U2 alliance could operate similar to QF/JQ group (but still different because IAG most likely would not own U2 as QF owns JQ). U2 could be the VY of the UK and the rest of Europe for BA/IAG like VY is for IB/IAG in Spain.

Thanks for putting it much better than I ever could !

[Edited 2012-08-06 10:31:46]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8591 times:

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 21):
Obviously BA would gain from being able to off load its higher cost short haul network on to U2's lower cost short haul network

What's obvious here? I miss the commercial gain. Are you seriously seeing F and Club peeps flying EZY to connect?

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 21):
U2 could gain from additional revenue opportunities

Such as?

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 21):
An IAG/U2 alliance could operate similar to QF/JQ group

Schizophrenic with all cabin and flight crew afraid of the enemy within? Jetstar is hated within the staff at QF.

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 21):
U2 could be the VY of the UK and the rest of Europe for BA/IAG like VY is for IB/IAG in Spain.

It already is. What does feeding BA have to do with this? If the EZY product was feeding BA the winners wold be AF/KLM and LH Group. Given BA are a premium focussed carrier, anyone who supports this fundamentally misunderstands BA's place in the market. This fantasy makes SOU-DOH look like genius.


25 vinniewinnie : Great analysis! But on competition grounds, the deal would likely be rejected...
26 mikey72 : Actually considering IB's issues maybe it would be better if they also spun off their short-haul operations into the same new company. So all short-ha
27 Aesma : I agree about U2 not being that British. In the mind of French fliers, it's viewed as an European airline, and renaming it would be an enormous mistak
28 mikey72 : Actually I agree with that.....something neutral or Europe encompassing then ?
29 TWA85 : Whats obvious is that instead of BA using their own higher cost structure to feed their long houl network, they could tap into U2's lower cost short
30 clydenairways : As others have already pointed out, Easy is already a successful Pan-European Airline and brand. Why would they give this up to become just a UK brand
31 SuperCaravelle : I doubt shareholders share your point of view. Mergers are and will always be difficult and delicate. DL and NW are, on the outside, a success, many
32 mikey72 : They wouldn't be becoming part of BA they would become part of IAG and hence a member of Oneworld. It's early days for the transformation of legacy s
33 skipness1E : mikey explain to me why Premier customers would use easyJet / IAG over integrated products like AF/KLM and LH Group. I think a lot of the "pro" camp h
34 SuperCaravelle : Well, I don't feel like going into a discussion/argument on this, but let's say since Easyjet started their Gatwick ops they have been expanding and
35 bastew : I can see exactly something like this happening with the BA LGW short-haul network at some point. - BA LGW short-haul will go Buy on Board, charge for
36 skipness1E : They have destroyed BA short haul at LGW, let's be clear.
37 airproxx : Although I don't find it that "absurd", here's a little piece of answer given a few years ago by Mr Spinetta (who was AF's CEO at that time): Several
38 bastew : I don't think IAG are in ANY precarious position. Yes, IB is dragging the company down a little at the moment. But Willie Walsh will simply do at IB e
39 TWA85 : They wont as these are not the passengers that BA has to compete with U2 for, nor are they the passengers that BA could easily take from AF/KL (nor c
40 SuperCaravelle : Why? The only Gatwick longhaul of BA are the supposed charter-like holiday operations, right? Aren't they catering more to O&D? I can't imagine e
41 Burkhard : U2 is a bad candidate, but a merger of BA short haul with Flybee to BEA and a seperate merger of BA and IB long halt to BSOAC would work. BA survived
42 bastew : Predominately, yes. But 'premium leisure' has become a big market in the UK. More and more flights ex LGW to the Caribbean are offering a First cabin
43 Post contains images col : Wow, this is still going! Just had a thought, something similar makes sense to me now. WN could work with AC. The WN US network is similar to EZY Pan
44 skipness1E : Exactly, some feed from the regions but predominantly doing very well in O&D. Quickest way to lose loyal premium customers is to drop a connectio
45 mikey72 : Maybe to a 'limited' extent they are prepared to allow profits from long-haul ops to support short-haul ops in order to maintain Air France' presence
46 mariner : I think it is similar to the popular idea that American Airlines should merge - as in take over - JetBlue. They are two completely different business
47 skipness1E : Mikey when you ask if Club has any relevance anymore, I despair! You know what, why not consolidate LGW long haul to Thomas Cook and rename it British
48 mikey72 : Club Europe skipness, not Club World...god !! I did ask the question..
49 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I haven't seen any evidence of this - can you cite some examples please? Dan
50 mikey72 : Flexible fares, allocated seating charges.
51 skipness1E : Yes Mikey, CLub Europe is very relevant. So "frills" are charging for a seat? They've sexed up the cabin crew uniforms and upped the average fares. T
52 Post contains images PlymSpotter : This is an extension of the LCC business model, it's not a sign that they are becoming a frills carrier. Even Ryanair allocate seating now for a fee.
53 mikey72 : The creeping price of oil and collapsing European economy (the latter hopefully short lived) will force the LCC's to consider ever more 'unthinkable'
54 mikey72 : Thin end of the wedge I reckon.
55 Post contains images PlymSpotter : If it can make money, it will and I expect has been considered. But if they're charging for them, that's still adhering to the LCC model. 'Frills' ha
56 GT4EZY : Some may poke fun occasionally and use 'sleazyjet', 'squeezyjet' etc but the cold stark fact is that the Easyjet Orange brand is probably the most val
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