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Obsessions With "Traveling Lightly" And "Speed"?  
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

I ask you two questions:

1. What is everyone's great obsession with "traveling lightly?"
2. Why are people obsessed with speed, and doing things quickly?

I see so many people traveling with their rollaboard suitcases, small bags, etc, that I wonder why this is so important to everyone. It's no joke that people don't like checking bags these days, which I would say there are 3 reasons for:

a) Fees.
b) Carousel wait times at certain airports.
c) Misdirected or damaged baggage.

So obviously there's an explanation there, but I'm curious - What is the obsession? Nowadays the arrogant business traveler who "packs lightly," doesn't occupy very much bag space onboard, etc is seen as some sort of Hero. How is he different from everyone else? So what if he doesn't feel the need to bring more things with him when traveling? That doesn't make him better than everyone else.

And why is checking bags such a Bad Thing these days? Sure, there can be inconveniences, such as the ones I outlined earlier. You don't like checking bags? That's fine, that's your opinion. Just don't try to tell us how terrible it is, or how much time it "wastes."

This leads me to my next question - Why are people so enthusiastic about doing things quickly? If you don't believe me, here are some things airlines have done to makes things "faster" for people:

Online Check-in
Mobile Check-in
"Priority" security lanes
"Priority" boarding lanes

Etc...

   Honestly, why are people in such a rush? Why do people come to the airport only 1-1.5 hours before their flight leaves, then have to run like hell because they didn't give themselves enough time? Why do people book the closest possible connection time and then have to run through their connecting city's airport like their butt is on fire because they didn't book a long enough connection? Why do people hate check-in counters? How about lines?   

Honestly, just slow down! Take a deep breath. Stop running. Give yourself some more time. Take another deep breath.

What confuses me is that we are all here because we love aviation. Yet people try to do it as quickly and as "efficiently" as possible. It makes it seem like you don't enjoy what you came here for.

I would love to hear people's thoughts on this matter!

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Nowadays the arrogant business traveler who "packs lightly,"

Not sure I see a link between "arrogant", "business traveller" and "packing lightly".

Some people will pack lightly simply because they don't need to take a lot with them. If you are flying to NYC for the day on business you don't need to schlep six suitcases with you. Similarly, a person travelling to a beach-side location is unlikely to need to pack fur coats, thick clothes and warm winter undies, so they can also afford to pack more lightly. Conversely, a family with infants will have different needs and arrogance doesn't come into play.

Impatience and arrogance is another matter. Economy passengers can be just as obnoxious as business passengers in this regard.

Why does everyone appear to be in a rush? The "me first" and "time is money" syndromes may play some part. But sometimes people may be in a rush because other alternatives were not available. Maybe some did book an early flight to give themselves time for that connection. Then there was a delayed departure and/or arrival. Their carefully made plans fell apart. Perhaps other people have other commitments as well as travel and those commitments may overlap. Of course some are just bad organisers. But who knows?


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6673 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
1. What is everyone's great obsession with "traveling lightly?"

As an airline employee, I travel very light, I know how to pack my stuff for at least 3-4 days into a simple roller bag that I don't have to check in. I can get my personal grooming stuff at my destination (toothpaste and a simple toothbrush). It is not that difficult to do. There is no reason to pack the kitchen sink on my trips, even if it is for an overnighter somewhere.

Being an airline employee has perks, like free checked luggage.... But I never take advantage of that unless I really, really need to.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6666 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
I see so many people traveling with their rollaboard suitcases

IMHO the very antihesis of 'traveling light'. Frequently larger than the (unenforced) bag sizer at the gate, stuffed so full that some people have difficulty lifting them PLUS the same people frequently have a large laptop bag and, on occassion, even a third small hand carry bag.

I travel a lot, up to a week in one soft sided bag that fits in the bag sizer and overhead with ease. No need to take the proverbial kitchen sink, clothes rolled up, small items inside shoes etc. amazing how much can be packed in a small space. Even then, if there is a connection I'll often check the bag as I can't be bothered to schlep it around an airport. I hear all sorts of people tell me their 'horror' stories of lost and delayed bags (I'm convinced a lot of those tales are the airline equivalent of the fishermans 'one that got away') but in 15 years of traveling around the world i've had precisely one bag delayed 24 hours and KLM delivered it in one piece nothing missing.



Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do people come to the airport only 1-1.5 hours before their flight leaves, then have to run like hell because they didn't give themselves enough time?

I generally find that is more than enough time. No runnning required. Now, I do come across people who get on a flight at the last second complaining about the security line delaying them and then finding out they only got to the airport 30 minutes before departure.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do people book the closest possible connection time and then have to run through their connecting city's airport like their butt is on fire

because airlines offer it, without apparent regard to reality, and people frequently don't know that (for example) 35 minutes to connect in ATL from concourse D to A just isn't feasible. From my early days traveling I've figured out which airports need more connection than sometimes offered by airlines (PHL, ATL, EWR are prime examples, especially for INTL to Domestic) but if you are not a frequent flier the only way to find out is through bad experience. There are some airports where I will deliberately take a longer layover just for the sheer pleasure of the airport (AMS, SIN, ICN come to mind)


User currently offlineBlueLine From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6660 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
This leads me to my next question - Why are people so enthusiastic about doing things quickly? If you don't believe me, here are some things airlines have done to makes things "faster" for people:

Online Check-in
Mobile Check-in
"Priority" security lanes
"Priority" boarding lanes

I don't see online and mobile check-in as anything unreasonable. Why plan to spend more time at the airport waiting in line to do something that can be done at home in two minutes? Also, it reduces the costs for the airline with lower personnel and infrastructure costs.

As for the Priority lines, that seems to be something that's there to make FF's and premium customers feel more special than your regular passenger. I get a kick out of arriving at ORD in the morning and seeing the priority security line backed up while there are only three people going through the standard checkpoint.


User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

For me personally, I fit into the need for "Priority Security Screening" when I fly.

I only fly for leisure and with one airline, mainly Delta. I fly frequently for pleasure (usually long weekends up to a week) and really have been accustomed to this benefit (as a Medallion Member) as I like to spend more time at the Delta Sky Clubs than in a queue. I purchase the annual membership as sometimes I am a Silver just barely at Gold, so I'd like to get my monies worth.

As a frequent traveller, it is hard to not notice the family with strollers holding up the line or the business traveller having to remove his laptop and suit jacket, belt, tie clasp, etc. It takes less than 10 seconds to remove a laptop. However when you add 10 seconds to roughly 75-100 passengers in the security zone with laptops, it starts to add up. I never fly with a laptop because I don't want the extra hassle. (This is what blackberries and iphones and ipads are for, right?)

I don't do online/mobile check in as I like the person-to-person contact with an agent. It's a little old-fashioned, but I miss those days of customer service from booking to baggage claim.

I also don't care for the Priority Boarding as once again, I like to spend more time at the Delta Sky Clubs and prefer to be one of the last passengers on board to minimize standing in the jetway for minutes on end waiting for other passengers find their seats and stowing their carry-on items. I find most passengers are oblivious to their surrounds and fail to realize there are other passengers around them and they should step out of the aisle (most FA's can vouch for this) and into the row to allow other passengers find their seats for an on-time departure.

As far as travel, I usually take about 2-3 suitcases even for a 4 day trip, for example, as I always like to bring a few bottles of my favorite wine to enjoy at my hotel along with scented candles and all my toiletries, shoes, clothes, warm and cooler-weather clothing articles as I want to be comfortable the entire trip. After all, this is what vacations are all about! I also like to do some shopping or purchase local/regional wine that is hard to find at my home departure city. I love wine. I usually take home about 6 - 12 bottles (as some wine shops/vineyards offer discounts for bulk) so I tend to pack the 2nd/3rd suitcase lighter.

For International trips, I always shop on-board when the Duty-Free service begins and also at Duty-Free shops upon arrival at my international city. I like to stock up on cigarettes, alcohol, skin care, and fragrances. Therefore, due to liquid restrictions, I need that extra suitcase to transport these items.

I've never flown for business, but I think I would still follow the same behavior as I like to take advantage of being in a new city.

Yes, I'm a freak!

Bon Voyage!



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlinebps3458 From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6643 times:

I am a terrible "packer" and having a size 16 shoe doesn't help. I usually end up having checked in luggage but always make sure to include sufficient time in my schedule to not panic if my suitcase is not on the belt first. Keep in mind that I fly QF domestically so do not have to pay extra for checked luggage and international flights are usually in C. As a matter of fact, I actually prefer to check in luggage as I can't be bothered hauling a large suitcase on and off a plane. Prefer to only have my little backpack with the essentials for the trip with me in the cabin.

When travelling overseas I must admit that I tend to run/rush until I get to Immigration. I simply can't stand waiting in line (any where in the world) waiting to get my passport stamped. As I usually fly C, getting to Immigration as one of the first passengers is usually not a problem, It only gets problematic if other international flights have arrived earlier and Immigration is already crowded. If I actually do have to wait you will usually see me start "steaming" very slowly as I watch the travellers who can't properly fill in their landing cards. Sorry, have absolutely no patience/understanding for people holding up the process. If I travel with my wife we usually end up having an argument at this poit as she keeps on telling me to keep calm and stop being "German". Once we are through Immigration we always have a big laugh about it and I promise to be more relaxed next time.

Am still proud of my current record of 17 minutes from the minute I got off the CX flight in Brisbane, picked-up pre-purchased duty free, cleared immigration, collected my luggage, passed AQIS and was out in the arrival hall only to wait for my family to pick me up as they usually tend to arrive 30-45 minutes after flight arrival.

Will try to beat my record when I get back from SIN on QF 52 in September.

Cheers from Brisbane,

Peter


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6641 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
Frequently larger than the (unenforced) bag sizer at the gate, stuffed so full that some people have difficulty lifting them

   So true, in all accounts. I cannot begin to count how many times I have seen and felt very small roller boards that are gate checked that are so HEAVY as hell, it makes no sense. It feels like two bowling balls in those small roller boards!!!! It is ridiculous!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6619 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 1):
Some people will pack lightly simply because they don't need to take a lot with them. If you are flying to NYC for the day on business you don't need to schlep six suitcases with you. Similarly, a person travelling to a beach-side location is unlikely to need to pack fur coats, thick clothes and warm winter undies, so they can also afford to pack more lightly. Conversely, a family with infants will have different needs and arrogance doesn't come into play.

Sure, just as long as they don't try to take a lot of "pride" in it.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 1):
Economy passengers can be just as obnoxious as business passengers in this regard.

That's for sure.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 1):
But sometimes people may be in a rush because other alternatives were not available. Maybe some did book an early flight to give themselves time for that connection.

Of course, nothing unreasonable about that.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 1):
Then there was a delayed departure and/or arrival. Their carefully made plans fell apart.

It has happened to me!  
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
As an airline employee, I travel very light, I know how to pack my stuff for at least 3-4 days into a simple roller bag that I don't have to check in.

Now, I thought airline employees on duty weren't allowed to check bags?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
Being an airline employee has perks, like free checked luggage.... But I never take advantage of that unless I really, really need to.

 Wow! Sounds like you need to take better advantage of your perks, AirframeAS!

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
IMHO the very antihesis of 'traveling light'. Frequently larger than the (unenforced) bag sizer at the gate, stuffed so full that some people have difficulty lifting them PLUS the same people frequently have a large laptop bag and, on occassion, even a third small hand carry bag.

   I couldn't agree more.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
up to a week in one soft sided bag that fits in the bag sizer and overhead with ease.

Yes, the only problem is when EVERYONE tries to bring their bag onboard that "fits in the overhead with ease."

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
Even then, if there is a connection I'll often check the bag as I can't be bothered to schlep it around an airport.

Good man. I wish more people would do this.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
I hear all sorts of people tell me their 'horror' stories of lost and delayed bags (I'm convinced a lot of those tales are the airline equivalent of the fishermans 'one that got away') but in 15 years of traveling around the world i've had precisely one bag delayed 24 hours and KLM delivered it in one piece nothing missing.

  

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
I generally find that is more than enough time. No runnning required.

Really? I've tried that before, and it just feels a little close.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
Now, I do come across people who get on a flight at the last second complaining about the security line delaying them and then finding out they only got to the airport 30 minutes before departure.

Now that's obviously not enough time.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
and people frequently don't know that (for example) 35 minutes to connect in ATL from concourse D to A just isn't feasible.

  

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
There are some airports where I will deliberately take a longer layover just for the sheer pleasure of the airport (AMS, SIN, ICN come to mind)

Me too! Personally, I love airports...

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 4):
I don't see online and mobile check-in as anything unreasonable.

Really? Never made sense to me. Don't I have to wait in line to check bags anyways? How is a web boarding pass going to help that? Even in the rare instance that I'm not checking bags, it never takes that long to stop at a kiosk.

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 4):
Why plan to spend more time at the airport waiting in line to do something that can be done at home in two minutes?

Because I'm waiting in line to check my bags, anyways.

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 4):
Also, it reduces the costs for the airline with lower personnel and infrastructure costs.

It also requires me to provide my own printer, paper, and ink. The airline has all of those things; a couple of boarding passes printed by the airline once in a while won't run them bankrupt. They'll also give me the proper-sized boarding passes, instead of me having to carry an inconveniently-large sheet of paper.

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 4):
As for the Priority lines, that seems to be something that's there to make FF's and premium customers feel more special than your regular passenger.

I'll save my rant about Premiers for another time, but it's what they want.

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 4):
I get a kick out of arriving at ORD in the morning and seeing the priority security line backed up while there are only three people going through the standard checkpoint.

  

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 5):
as I like to spend more time at the Delta Sky Clubs than in a queue. I purchase the annual membership as sometimes I am a Silver just barely at Gold, so I'd like to get my monies worth.

To each their own!

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 5):
I never fly with a laptop because I don't want the extra hassle. (This is what blackberries and iphones and ipads are for, right?)

Well... I don't have any of those things, nor do I have a need for them.

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 5):
I don't do online/mobile check in as I like the person-to-person contact with an agent.

      Bingo! I couldn't agree with you more. Most people think I'm crazy, but like you mention, I like human interaction.

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 5):
It's a little old-fashioned, but I miss those days of customer service from booking to baggage claim.

Same here.

Quoting bps3458 (Reply 6):
I am a terrible "packer" and having a size 16 shoe doesn't help. I usually end up having checked in luggage but always make sure to include sufficient time in my schedule to not panic if my suitcase is not on the belt first.

Just because you check bags doesn't make you a "terrible packer."

Quoting bps3458 (Reply 6):
As a matter of fact, I actually prefer to check in luggage as I can't be bothered hauling a large suitcase on and off a plane. Prefer to only have my little backpack with the essentials for the trip with me in the cabin.

Exactly. Why carry a big and heavy bag with you when the airline will do it for you? I wish more people would understand this.

Quoting bps3458 (Reply 6):
When travelling overseas I must admit that I tend to run/rush until I get to Immigration. I simply can't stand waiting in line (any where in the world) waiting to get my passport stamped.

Oh, so you're one of those.    Well, take a look at what I said earlier:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Honestly, just slow down! Take a deep breath. Stop running. Give yourself some more time. Take another deep breath.

-

Quoting bps3458 (Reply 6):
Am still proud of my current record of 17 minutes from the minute I got off the CX flight in Brisbane, picked-up pre-purchased duty free, cleared immigration, collected my luggage, passed AQIS and was out in the arrival hall only to wait for my family to pick me up as they usually tend to arrive 30-45 minutes after flight arrival.

Will try to beat my record when I get back from SIN on QF 52 in September.

See? Why are you racing?


User currently offlineblueflyer From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jan 2006, 4190 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6605 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
What is everyone's great obsession with "traveling lightly?"

I don't think it's about traveling lightly, it's about traveling efficiently. Why pack enough to survive on a deserted island for a month if one is off on an overnight trip? The opposite is true. I've gone on many month-long trips with multiple stops each with their own season, or almost. I still try and pack efficiently, but I am certainly not traveling lightly.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 8):
Sure, just as long as they don't try to take a lot of "pride" in it.

Nearly 200,000 miles on this year, and I have yet to suspect or hear anyone taking pride in their packing skills...

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why are people obsessed with speed, and doing things quickly?

Because the plane is late and I am going to miss my connection/shuttle/meeting. Yes, I know, I should arrive 24 hours ahead of every meeting I fly to in case the plane is delayed by weather, mechanical failure, God or a fight in the cockpit, but my boss isn't interested in paying me to stay in a hotel and watch TV all day. Go figure.

If time isn't of the essence, I'll let the ones in a rush, whatever their reason may be, ahead of me, not because I am a nice guy, but because they might be bowling ball sales rep with a sample or two in that huge rollerboard they are dragging up the aisle without regard for my toes.

This being said, even when I take my time, I tend to walk faster than most. Don't hate me because my normal pace is faster than your sprint, and I promise I will politely and carefully navigate around you.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do people come to the airport only 1-1.5 hours before their flight leaves

Because there are plenty of airports around the world where that is much more than enough time... Of course, there are just as many airports where I will call our travel dept and ask to be rebooked on a later flight if I am not in sight of the airport two hours before departure. Each airport differs. On a good day, I can go from curbside to plane in well under 10 minutes at DFW, for example.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
Even then, if there is a connection I'll often check the bag as I can't be bothered to schlep it around an airport

I've got a backpack that can fit my laptop, a few files, reading material and enough clothes for a couple of days without breaking my back. Anything that doesn't fit in there goes in the hold. It does make my life much easier, and comment above notwithstanding, I usually do have time to wait for my luggage to come off the belt...

The main downside is the lack of a hard frame in my backpack. Every now and then, a late arriving passenger will try and jam his rollaboard against my bag, thinking it'll magically collapse to make room for his kitchen sink. Usually a stern request not to crush my bag is enough to tame them...

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 4):
I get a kick out of arriving at ORD in the morning and seeing the priority security line backed up while there are only three people going through the standard checkpoint.

I've seen that at so many airports it's not even funny anymore. I've also seen late boarding elite passengers queuing up on the elite carpet while the second gate agent posted by the "everyone else" carpet has nothing to do. Worst thing is, I get dirty look for giving her a bit of work and jumping ahead of the fragile egos on the other side of the rope.

To be fair, there also are airports where elite screening and/or boarding makes a big difference. Flying from LAS a lot, I'd plan on arriving 30 minutes earlier for a Monday morning departure if there was no priority screening line, for example.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 8):
Don't I have to wait in line to check bags anyways?

No. At least not usually. Where it tends to make the biggest difference is on international flights where a lot of passengers, usually for paperwork reasons, can't check in online, and airlines set up dedicated bag drop lines for passengers who already have their boarding pass so they don't wait in the same line.

By the way, will your head explode if I tell you there are airports in Canada and Europe where self check-in kiosks can also print luggage tags for the passengers to affix themselves, so all airline employees have to do is a quick visual inspection?   

[Edited 2012-08-22 00:55:24]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2302 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
2. Why are people obsessed with speed, and doing things quickly?

I don't know. But I'll tell you this, I will rush when arriving in the States, because to be quite honest, the immigration process takes too long. Whether it's the immigration agents or the passengers, I don't care.

If immigration wasn't so uptight, there wouldn't be so many problems. Which brings me to one of my peeves: why are Americans so obsessed with their perceived safety? Emphasis on perceived.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
1. What is everyone's great obsession with "traveling lightly?"

I don't know. I don't think there's an obsession.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
a) Fees.

Not a problem, in theory. Most of the world doesn't charge for baggage (yet). Which means it pisses me off that I live in the "greatest country in the world" (USA) but I get treated more poorly here than I would in a third world country.

But, in the end it doesn't even matter. Southwest has free baggage and I get free baggage on DL. If I need to, I'll use this. If I don't, I won't. I never carry more than a backpack on-board anyway.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
b) Carousel wait times at certain airports.

Do you think 90 minutes is acceptable (after getting off the plane)? It has definitely happened to me once, in ORD.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
c) Misdirected or damaged baggage.

Not a problem... They'll deliver it home, so often I like my baggage to get delayed, if I'm heading home. If I'm going on holiday and the airline loses my bag, they can go "eff" themselves. So, yes, I'm a bit wary.

Damaged baggage? That's rare.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
And why is checking bags such a Bad Thing these days?

Is it really? Thank UA, AA, US and DL for that   People don't like spending money.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Online Check-in
Mobile Check-in
"Priority" security lanes
"Priority" boarding lanes

What's wrong with those? It's 2012 after all, and everyone uses technology. I do OLCI then check-in at the desk (or kiosk).

Again, if security lanes were efficient (as they tend to be in Europe), there would be no problem. Europe doesn't make you wait 10 seconds to get irradiated.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do people come to the airport only 1-1.5 hours before their flight leaves, then have to run like hell because they didn't give themselves enough time?

Ummm... 90 minutes is enough at any airport in the world! IF people use OLCI, at least. Hell, even 60... if your flight leaves soon, I'll let you go ahead of me in a security line 
Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do people hate check-in counters?

Because, quite frankly, some agents don't know what they're doing (mostly in the USA), and some are rude (mostly in Europe).

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
How about lines?

I'm here on Earth for a short time... Can't think of a worst place to waste my time than in a queue.

Also, how about you queue up for hours when you want to buy some chicken fingers (in some cases, just to find out there are no chicken fingers)? Would you like that? If not, feel free to read about 1980's Romania and see why no one here likes a queue.

Queueing is a sign that something is being inefficiently managed.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Yet people try to do it as quickly and as "efficiently" as possible. It makes it seem like you don't enjoy what you came here for.

Don't tell others what they enjoy! I'd enjoy a world where there was no need for security checks. I'd enjoy a world where half the countries didn't actively try to stop anyone taking pictures of aircraft. We can't have that. Well...

To tell you the truth, airlines are, in general, quite shitty. I love flying, but dislike many airlines and their policies.


Anyway, your concerns, quite honestly, seem to be very American-centric. Flying in most other places is much more enjoyable. You drew the short stick, sorry!


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Honestly, just slow down! Take a deep breath. Stop running. Give yourself some more time. Take another deep breath.

  

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
What confuses me is that we are all here because we love aviation. Yet people try to do it as quickly and as "efficiently" as possible. It makes it seem like you don't enjoy what you came here for.

Exactly! I never understood why people mob the gate when the gate agents announce boarding (your seats are assigned, after all!).

I really have no problem with efficient travelers who *know* what they're doing and actually save time (without adversely affecting others). The inexperienced travelers who run around like headless chickens just hold up the process for everyone else. If the latter example would just calm down and pay attention to signage, etc., everyone's travel experience would be better.

It's like speeding mindlessly on a surface road or highway just for the sake of going fast. You'll just get stuck at a red light or behind a slower car and look like an idiot..



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineworkwings From United States of America, joined May 2010, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6504 times:

Maybe what looks like an obsession with speed, is simply rational behavior by people traveling at the beginning or end of a long work day!

As for why traveling light with only a carry on -- I've not been so lucky as other respondents. About once every two years, the airlines lose a checked bag, most recently for five weeks (luckily it was on the homeward journey). Then for a while I only do carry on, and for longer trips use hotel laundries. When the memory fades, I start checking bags for longer trips. A bag then gets lost, and the cycle starts again.

Another reason it's good to just use carry on is to avoid having someone paw through one's things. More than once my suitcase has been opened and I've found a TSA inspection card inside.

Traveling with colleagues who do check bags, and then needing to wait for them to claim baggage, can get irritating if I've made an effort to pack light and think through what I really need. Mind you my travel usually involves long international trips when the prospect of another hour of rest before starting bright and early the next day, is tremendously appealing.

In any case, I've been doing more personal travel lately and it's absolutely the case that when I am traveling for leisure I get to the airport early and with far less angst. And, if someone needs to charge ahead, I'm glad to let them...been there far too often...


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6497 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
I still try and pack efficiently, but I am certainly not traveling lightly.

Well that's good.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
Yes, I know, I should arrive 24 hours ahead of every meeting I fly to in case the plane is delayed by weather, mechanical failure, God or a fight in the cockpit, but my boss isn't interested in paying me to stay in a hotel and watch TV all day.

If only that was feasible!

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
This being said, even when I take my time, I tend to walk faster than most.

I've found that to generally be the case for me, too.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
I usually do have time to wait for my luggage to come off the belt.

Me too.  
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
No. At least not usually. Where it tends to make the biggest difference is on international flights where a lot of passengers, usually for paperwork reasons, can't check in online

Most times I've flown internationally, agent check-in was required for all pax. This was (I assume) because the airline is required to everyone's passport manually swiped into their system, along with having other documents checked before someone is cleared to fly.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
By the way, will your head explode if I tell you there are airports in Canada and Europe where self check-in kiosks can also print luggage tags for the passengers to affix themselves, so all airline employees have to do is a quick visual inspection?

Maybe it will, though my first reaction would be -   .
My assumption is that a surprising number of pax don't know how to tag a bag properly, or at all. If people can't find where their boarding zone is printed on their boarding pass, then I'd love to watch then try to tag a bag!

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
I don't know. But I'll tell you this, I will rush when arriving in the States, because to be quite honest, the immigration process takes too long. Whether it's the immigration agents or the passengers, I don't care.

I'll be honest here - Am I the only person who thinks it's really cool to go inside a federal government facility?

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
I don't know. I don't think there's an obsession.

Perhaps there isn't.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
Not a problem, in theory. Most of the world doesn't charge for baggage (yet).

But US airlines do - hence the problem.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
Do you think 90 minutes is acceptable

No, which is why I mentioned it as a reason why some people don't like checking bags.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
Not a problem... They'll deliver it home, so often I like my baggage to get delayed, if I'm heading home.

I wish everyone felt that way!

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
What's wrong with those?

My problem with them is that they eliminate human interaction.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
It's 2012 after all, and everyone uses technology.

Pretty generalized statement to say "everyone." In case you were wondering, I don't have a laptop, a smartphone, an iPad, or even an iPod!

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
Ummm... 90 minutes is enough at any airport in the world! IF people use OLCI, at least.

Like I said before, that does not feel like enough time for me.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
I'm here on Earth for a short time... Can't think of a worst place to waste my time than in a queue.

The world would be an amazing place if people had some patience.   

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
Queueing is a sign that something is being inefficiently managed.

I would love to hear your solution then!

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
To tell you the truth, airlines are, in general, quite shitty. I love flying, but dislike many airlines and their policies.

Huh?

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 10):
Anyway, your concerns, quite honestly, seem to be very American-centric. Flying in most other places is much more enjoyable. You drew the short stick, sorry!

Once again, you make it sound like the US is doing everything wrong, and that flying is supposed to be some sort of terrible thing.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 11):

Glad to hear from someone who agrees with me. 
Quoting ghifty (Reply 11):
Exactly! I never understood why people mob the gate when the gate agents announce boarding (your seats are assigned, after all!).

Exactly. Or rather, not so much about the assigned seating, but the assigned boarding groups.

Quoting workwings (Reply 12):
Maybe what looks like an obsession with speed, is simply rational behavior by people traveling at the beginning or end of a long work day!

Perhaps.

Quoting workwings (Reply 12):
Another reason it's good to just use carry on is to avoid having someone paw through one's things. More than once my suitcase has been opened and I've found a TSA inspection card inside.

How is having your bag searched at the security checkpoint any different?

Quoting workwings (Reply 12):
Traveling with colleagues who do check bags, and then needing to wait for them to claim baggage, can get irritating if I've made an effort to pack light and think through what I really need.

See my previous comment about patience.


User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2302 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
But US airlines do - hence the problem.

Solution: move to Norway. Or Kenya. Or anywhere that doesn't charge  
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
The world would be an amazing place if people had some patience.

I think you'll understand better when you have more things to do with your time. You said you're in high school... Well, I rarely had problems in managing time in high school, but a few days a year, in college, it can get a bit much. I'm guessing at 50, when you're a manager, you'll look back and understand...

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
My problem with them is that they eliminate human interaction.

Had there been a do it yourself baggage drop-off facility in OTP on my last trip, I would have saved half my day, which was ruined by the incredible rudeness of the check-in agent.

The problem? Humans are imperfect beings. While technology is also imperfect, it can do basic things better than humans.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
Pretty generalized statement to say "everyone." In case you were wondering, I don't have a laptop, a smartphone, an iPad, or even an iPod!

I only have a laptop of the things you mentioned. But you don't even need that to do OLCI... And there's then no problem in stopping by an agent to get real boarding passes and talking about the weather!

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
The world would be an amazing place if people had some patience.   

Why do you like standing up and looking at the back of someone's head for 20 minutes? It's kind of weird, actually  
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
Like I said before, that does not feel like enough time for me.

I generally get there 2 hours early unless it's early morning. But, it's more than enough time... As in, too much.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
I would love to hear your solution then!

Well, will you pay me to find a solution?

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
Once again, you make it sound like the US is doing everything wrong, and that flying is supposed to be some sort of terrible thing.

Yes. The US is doing everything wrong in aviation at the moment, sorry to say. It's reducing it to nothing more than a business. Of all the people I know, excluding those on this site, no one really gives a damn about aviation. Moreover, my friends in America usually hate the hassle of flying, whereas those in Europe are more neutral towards it. Why? I don't know exactly, but I have my hunches.

Flying isn't "supposed" to be a terrible thing, but in the USA, it can be. It's unfortunate.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6411 times:

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
Solution: move to Norway. Or Kenya. Or anywhere that doesn't charge

Seems simple enough.  
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
I think you'll understand better when you have more things to do with your time.

Are you suggesting that I have too much time on my hands?

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
You said you're in high school... Well, I rarely had problems in managing time in high school, but a few days a year, in college, it can get a bit much. I'm guessing at 50, when you're a manager, you'll look back and understand...

I love flying, and it will always be a special experience for me.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
Had there been a do it yourself baggage drop-off facility in OTP on my last trip, I would have saved half my day, which was ruined by the incredible rudeness of the check-in agent.

What happened?

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
And there's then no problem in stopping by an agent to get real boarding passes and talking about the weather!

Sure, I've done that before.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
Why do you like standing up and looking at the back of someone's head for 20 minutes? It's kind of weird, actually

I never said I liked it, I said that I don't see a real solution to it.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
Well, will you pay me to find a solution?

No, but I would love to hear your ideas.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 14):
Yes. The US is doing everything wrong in aviation at the moment, sorry to say. It's reducing it to nothing more than a business. Of all the people I know, excluding those on this site, no one really gives a damn about aviation. Moreover, my friends in America usually hate the hassle of flying, whereas those in Europe are more neutral towards it. Why? I don't know exactly, but I have my hunches.

Flying isn't "supposed" to be a terrible thing, but in the USA, it can be. It's unfortunate.

I appreciate your clarification.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8772 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

You have answered your own question:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 8):
To each their own!

Some people have perfectly valid reasons to travel with loads of luggage, others have reasons to pack no more than a toothbrush and their passport - proverbially, of course. As for myself, I do like spending time, but I don't like wasting it. Time spent waiting - when I could easily have done something to avoid the wait - is time wasted. The same is true for effort.

For instance, I use public transportation to (and from) the airport as often as I can. This involves walking up and down stairs and rushing through stations (and around "professional in-way-standers", as I like to call them), so everything I leave at home is something I don't have to carry. This comes in particularly handy after, for instance, a twelve-hour intercontinental trip with departure before 8 am, arrival before 6 am, a tight connection and an economy seat... three short nights after you got there in the first place.

Then, there's hotel hopping. Spend one night near the airport before departure, two or three at the destination and then another one away from home after you return and you'll find that every item which you didn't take is one that you don't have to pack... yet again.

If you do that sort of thing some twelve to fifteen times a year for business, on top of your own personal travels, you'll find that preparation and organisation can save you loads of time at the airport - time that you can spend on better things than waiting in line.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Honestly, just slow down! Take a deep breath. Stop running. Give yourself some more time. Take another deep breath.

Will do, in a chair at the gate while other people are still stuck at check-in. I get to watch the movement on the apron, they get to watch the counter. I am past all lines but the final one for boarding, they are still in the first. In my view, I'm far better off that way and much more relaxed for it.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 13):
Am I the only person who thinks it's really cool to go inside a federal government facility?

It does get old after the first couple of times. It's still an immigration hall, not a space centre.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 15):
Are you suggesting that I have too much time on my hands?

Well, you did essentially say that you like waiting in line... could you blame him?  



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 16):
For instance, I use public transportation to (and from) the airport as often as I can. This involves walking up and down stairs and rushing through stations (and around "professional in-way-standers", as I like to call them), so everything I leave at home is something I don't have to carry.

Do you enjoy taking public transit?

Quoting aloges (Reply 16):
Will do, in a chair at the gate while other people are still stuck at check-in. I get to watch the movement on the apron, they get to watch the counter. I am past all lines but the final one for boarding, they are still in the first. In my view, I'm far better off that way and much more relaxed for it.

It's always a matter of "me vs them," isn't it? Well, like you pointed out earlier:

Quoting aloges (Reply 16):
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 8):
To each their own!

  

Quoting aloges (Reply 16):
It does get old after the first couple of times. It's still an immigration hall, not a space centre.

Call it what you wish, but I enjoy it.

Quoting aloges (Reply 16):
Well, you did essentially say that you like waiting in line... could you blame him?

I did not say that at all.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8772 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):
Do you enjoy taking public transit?

That depends on various factors. If I run the risk of missing a connection and then having to wait for an hour with nowhere nice to spend the time, I don't like it. If the services I use run frequently and are otherwise acceptable, I love it - so much so that I have no desire at all to own a car.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):
It's always a matter of "me vs them," isn't it?

Not really, no. If someone doesn't prepare for the journey and the airport jamboree    , they'll have to spend their time in greater discomfort than they would have had to endure if they had prepared beforehand. But that call is not mine to make, so I'll just leave them to it and make the best of the time I have before departure. It can only turn into "me vs them" if the people in line before me start needlessly wasting my time, which is rude in any situation. In that case, I'll do what I can to keep my line going.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 17):
I did not say that at all.

OK, got you wrong then. My bad.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
That depends on various factors. If I run the risk of missing a connection and then having to wait for an hour with nowhere nice to spend the time, I don't like it.

Cool, thanks.

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
If the services I use run frequently and are otherwise acceptable, I love it - so much so that I have no desire at all to own a car.

That's where we differ.   The biggest problem that I had with public transit was that it took forever to get just about anywhere, and that driving was almost always faster.

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
Not really, no. If someone doesn't prepare for the journey and the airport jamboree , they'll have to spend their time in greater discomfort than they would have had to endure if they had prepared beforehand. But that call is not mine to make, so I'll just leave them to it and make the best of the time I have before departure. It can only turn into "me vs them" if the people in line before me start needlessly wasting my time, which is rude in any situation. In that case, I'll do what I can to keep my line going.

Thanks for clarifying.

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
OK, got you wrong then. My bad.

No worries, you seem like a reasonable chap.   I was simply saying that people should be more patient about waiting, because for now, it's all we've got. Sure, it'd be great not to have to wait in lines at all, but it just isn't feasible, especially in this economy.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6361 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 8):
Now, I thought airline employees on duty weren't allowed to check bags?

Who said I was on duty??

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 8):
Sounds like you need to take better advantage of your perks, AirframeAS!

Oh, I only do that when I need to. I actually did it this past July to SEA. I checked in a bag that was light as hell, but would be prohibited past the security checkpoint. I did not get charged the bag fee, all in part because I had my airline ID around my neck at the time.   And this was on a revenue ticket, not as a non-rev, I should add.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
Who said I was on duty??

Well I assumed so, because you said "as an airline employee."

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
Oh, I only do that when I need to. I actually did it this past July to SEA. I checked in a bag that was light as hell, but would be prohibited past the security checkpoint. I did not get charged the bag fee, all in part because I had my airline ID around my neck at the time. And this was on a revenue ticket, not as a non-rev, I should add.

Thanks for clarifying.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6259 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 21):
Well I assumed so, because you said "as an airline employee."

I should be clear here.... "As a Non-Rev", but I also do the same practice when I am traveling revenue.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Time is money for business travellers. Flying is such an unpleasant experience these days for people who have to do it for a living that anything that can save time is very welcome. I haven't checked a bag in over 7 years and can't begin to calculate how many hours it's saved hanging around airport check-in counters and baggage claims.

I'm afraid I don't understand the point of your thread. Speed and time-saving are two of the major benefits of air travel. You seem to be implying that there's something wrong with people who do their best to try and take advantage of those benefits.


User currently offlineEricAY05 From Finland, joined Sep 2010, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

AlnessW, I agree with you. On almost any given flight the majority of the pax belong to the group for whom time is not money. And still they rush. What annoys me the most, is why the heck as soon as the plane has stopped, and vry often even before that, 90+% of the passengers stand up and start taking down their carry-on luggage and aggressively forming a line in the aisle?

It doesn't matter where in the world you fly, it doesn't matter what the crew says, there is this idiotic obsession with rushing out of the plane. Even when there sometimes is an issue with the jet bridge or something and the door can't be opened for 15 minutes these people stand and push and rush.

The only times when I rush is when I'm late or need to clear immigration, because in some countries (USA, especially at MIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) it takes a very long time, and even then I only rush once I'm outside of the plane.


25 Post contains images AlnessW : Well, like I've said before, I'm going to save my rant on premiers/elites for another thread. So you don't really like travel then? Then my suggestio
26 Mir : Because people have things to do and places to be, and waiting around in an airport cuts down on the available time to do those things and be in thos
27 Cubsrule : Agreed. Some of those - such as spending time with family - are activities that I'd hope we can all agree are things that we want people to do. Perha
28 Viscount724 : I love travel and have been on about 40 flights so far this year, including 4 KLM flights this past weekend. But the air travel part of it is now jus
29 lewis : People who have to travel for work are just making it easier for themselves. For many, flying is commuting to work so there is no reason to drag arou
30 Cubsrule : This point can be illustrated with an equation, which is basically true both by weight and by volume Ipad + Usable external keyboard = Laptop If ther
31 lewis : Or if the laptop is used for professional reasons. Our work is done 100% on the laptop, its where all my files are at, along with all my applications
32 Cubsrule : There are software based reasons too. And it's not just a security issue, although that's an important point. If I need to do anything serious in Exc
33 Post contains images AlnessW : How often have you had checked bags lost? Of course, but I just don't get why flying has to be such a chore, an annoyance, or an inconvenience. Depen
34 bongodog1964 : To me its all about cutting out hassle and making flying more enjoyable. I could stand for an hour or so in a check in queue as I once used to, or I c
35 Cubsrule : Perhaps I should have mentioned that the next HOU-BNA flight, which had seats, would have gotten me to Nashville five minutes before the original SAT
36 lewis : I arrived at my destination at 8:15 (which meant taking a 6am flight), with a cab ride in between I was at work by 9. It still is, but not always. It
37 Post contains images AlnessW : Because there are people out there you are not part of an airport lounge. I am glad we agree on that one. Right, no sense in not checking bags for a
38 Mir : A couple of times. Once I had my checked bags both lost and damaged (some of the contents inside were damaged as well). How often have I lost my carr
39 Cubsrule : YMMV, but for me, the strength of those disincentives varies. If I'm flying YXU-ORD on UA (or YKF-ORD on AA), I might check because I can be pretty s
40 Mir : Which is great for them, but I don't have status, so I have to adjust my priorities differently. And the extra $50 just isn't worth it to me. If it w
41 Post contains images AlnessW : I think many would agree with you. From my OP: - This is where I believe that airlines charging for carry-on bags is not such a bad idea. The whole m
42 ajd1992 : I pack lightly simply because I don't need to take a lot. If I can get away with only taking a little carry on (and I can for anything up to a week) t
43 Cubsrule : Well, there are two sides to that coin. If I'm flying AA mainline to ORD (domestic, particularly a widebody) or WN to MDW or LAX, I won't check if I
44 Mir : Why should I pay extra for something that's only going to take up my legroom and not affect anyone else? The only thing I put in the overhead was my
45 AlnessW : In the US, liquids, gels, etc are allowed on board, but the container size must be 3 ounces or smaller. But what happens when EVERYONE brings "a roll
46 Cubsrule : Some bags get gate checked. But that might be a preferable outcome, as the passenger whose bag gets gate checked doesn't have to wait to check it in,
47 Post contains images aloges : For me, the actual flying is the best part. It's all the wasted time between arriving at the airport and taking off that can get to me. I've had a co
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