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Possible New Ultra-Long Range Route?   
User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

JFK-SYD
LHR-SYD
JFK-AKL
LHR-PER
These flights are non-stop.

[Edited 2012-08-22 12:44:28]


I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6687 times:

Will it happen? In the very long term future, perhaps. Definitely not in the foreseeable future. Routes this long just aren't going to be profitable.


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6626 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
JFK-SYD
Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
JFK-AKL

Well, given that there are no aircraft that can do these routes nonstop, (77L can, but ETOPS restrictions won't allow it), I'm gonna say not too soon.


User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

G'day

How about a nonstop Milan Italy to Hobart Australia. I need that for early September. Suggestions will be appreciated.

Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 3):
What about the A345? Isn't SQ using it nonstop on SIN-JFK? I'm not exactly sure, but on the great circle I can imagine that JFK-SYD isn't that much further

EWR-SIN is roughly 8,300 nm and JFK-SYD is 8,648 nm.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
JFK-AKL

JFK-AKL is 7,671 nm so it CAN be done. Range for the 777-200LR without the restrictions is 9,950 nm.



I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6785 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
ETOPS restrictions won't allow it

At worst the restrictions require a slightly longer route; suspect an extra 100 nm would cover it.


User currently offlineicanfly From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

I would be very excited if United did SYD-IAH (7470 nm).


United: please start SYD-IAH!
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6361 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
JFK-AKL
LHR-PER

No.

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):

JFK-SYD
LHR-SYD

If range permits, maybe.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6130 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6336 times:
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What about the amount of Cabin Crew you will have to carry on such routes? Would that present a problem? Would a bigger crew rest compartment need to be designed?


MGGS
User currently offlineKermode From Canada, joined Jun 2012, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6327 times:

LHR-SYD and JKF-SYD are common, just need an aircraft to make them economical, that's the goal of the a350-900r isn't it? But I think a non-traditional long-haul route would be nice to see.

NRT-LIM
NRT-SCL

Perhaps? They'd be close in length to SIN-EWR


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6295 times:

Quoting icanfly (Reply 6):

So would I!

Realistically thinking, the next regularly scheduled ULH flight will probably be DFW-SYD (this flight currently runs via BNE). But I'm hoping that we see some interesting new flights made possible by the 787 before then...


User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Quoting Kermode (Reply 9):
But I think a non-traditional long-haul route would be nice to see.

NRT-LIM
NRT-SCL

That would indeed be nice. Not very profitable, though. If SQ is (apparently) losing money on EWR-SIN, imagine what it would take to make NRT-LIM profitable... I do hope to see it someday....


User currently offlineKermode From Canada, joined Jun 2012, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 11):

One can dream right? Maybe in a decade or so when 18-19 hour flights are the norm  

One day an aircraft will be built that will make the 787 look like the 67's it's trying to replace. And then maybe it could be possible.

Kermode


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6130 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6153 times:
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Quoting Kermode (Reply 12):
One day an aircraft will be built that will make the 787 look like the 67's it's trying to replace. And then maybe it could be possible.

So. How many morgues would such a plane need to have on board?



MGGS
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8052 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 13):
So. How many morgues would such a plane need to have on board?

Too true. The SQ A340-500s have one - honest to god - a refridgerated space in the galley specifically for storing a body. Anything longer than EWR-SIN and it might get pretty crowded in there!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting Kermode (Reply 12):
18-19 hour flights

Morgue-logistics aside, I don't see how 19-hour-in-a-tin-can will ever be "the norm". I daydream about nonstops to/from anywhere you can think of, but besides me and a few others (AKA, a.netters), most people would rather have a one-stop instead of a 18+ hour flight.

Back to morgue logistics, that's the easy part, imagine the medical training and equipment (at least a Automatic external defibrillator) would be needed in every flight and AFAIK noone carries them.


User currently offlineKermode From Canada, joined Jun 2012, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5820 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 15):

Only on anet can you read about the logistics of ULH flying and the number of morgue's needed onboard. First time over ever heard of them! Did a quick google search (as google searches a.net better than the a.net search) and found a thread on them. Someone calculated that on average based on 400 777's flyin at any given time, that someone dies every week! Maybe this isn't such a crazy concept anyways!

Morgue On The A-380? Really? (by Nsfguy Jan 24 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Reply 27 has the theory behind one death every week on triple sevens.

On a side note, as If this comment isn't all a side-note, can anyone provide a direct link to a picture of one of the sq a345 morgues? There don't seem to be any in the database.

Thanks a lot!
Kermode


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6130 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5804 times:
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Quoting Kermode (Reply 16):
On a side note, as If this comment isn't all a side-note, can anyone provide a direct link to a picture of one of the sq a345 morgues? There don't seem to be any in the database.

While I cannot provide a link to that pic. I´m sure there was one in the database here. Maybe it was taken down due to sensibilities. But I did see it somewhere.



MGGS
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 4):

Yes,the ranges permit it, but don't forgot the Earth's rotation. The same reason the QF's DFW-SYD flight stops in BNE.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24824 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 15):
imagine the medical training and equipment (at least a Automatic external defibrillator) would be needed in every flight and AFAIK noone carries them.

Many airlines have onboard defibrillators on all their aircraft. If not mistaken it's been an FAA requirement for U.S.airlines since about 2004. Some have had then longer than that, for example AA. I've seen them on KLM aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuaJSKZ7EeM

Related 2001 news item.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/15/us...rs-defibrillators-on-airlines.html


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

As aircraft become more and more capable, another phenomenon occurs ...

That is there becomes a point where it is more economical, with regard to fuel, to land enroute, than fly the route non-stop. Carrying 20 hours of fuel is very very expensive, more expensive than carrying 10 hours of fuel twice, (for example).

There was a very interesting message thread about just that on here a few months ago. The (accurate) theory is that if you consider how much it costs to carry the final 10 hours of fuel on the first 10 hours, then stopping in the middle becomes cheaper.

So looking at the routes above, yes there is demand .... but would the average passenger pay a premium for a non-stop over a one-stop flight? Historically, that passenger would not .... and ticket price will often dictate.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineklemmi85 From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

Since we're talking about long haul routes for the future, why not add the ridiculous TER-SYD ?

User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

ANC-CUN and ANC-MIA would be awesome but I know nobody would invest in such a route.

User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5148 times:

PER-JFK would be close to the longest route possible. Anyone know of other antipodal routes?


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

I found some more:

1. Asuncion, Paraguay, to Taipei, Taiwan: 12390 miles

2. Seville, Spain, to Auckland, New Zealand: 12383 miles

3. Bermuda to Perth, Australia: 12376 miles

4. Santiago, Chile, to Xian, China: 12374 miles

5. Timbuktu, Mali, to Nadi, Fiji: 12357 miles

6. León, Spain, to Wellington, New Zealand: 12336 miles

7. Cordoba, Argentina, to Wuhan, China: 12335 miles

8. Bahia Blanca, Argentian, to Beijing, China: 12326 miles

9. Bogota, Colombia, to Jakarta, Indonesia: 12311 miles

10. Lima, Peru, to Bangkok, Thailand: 12231 miles

11. La Coruña, Spain to Christchurch, New Zealand: 12219 miles

12. Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Shanghai, China: 12216 miles

Still more:


Córdoba, Spain, (37:53N 4:46W) to Hamilton, New Zealand (37:48S 175:16E) = 12420 miles

Jaén, Spain, (37:46N 3:47W) to Rotorua, New Zealand (38:09S 176:14E) = 12403 miles

Málaga, Spain, (36:43N 4:25W) to Coromandel, New Zealand (36:46S 175:30E) = 12418 miles

Pendopo, Indonesia to Cali, Colombia = 12433 miles



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 14):
The SQ A340-500s have one - honest to god - a refridgerated space in the galley specifically for storing a body.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 17):
While I cannot provide a link to that pic. I´m sure there was one in the database here. Maybe it was taken down due to sensibilities. But I did see it somewhere.

I've seen the pic.......The compartment was way too small for a body. I'm calling BS on this one.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
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