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Royal Air Maroc Yelling Man Incident  
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7004 times:
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On October 12th I flew Royal Air Maroc from Brussels-Casablanca. As I came into the gate area I took note of my fellow passengers, almost all of whom were Moroccan except for myself and one european family. Overall passengers were dressed well and were nicely groomed. One man however stood out. He was dressed rather plainly as compared to the other passengers in dungaree pants, a tee shirt and I think a dungaree jacket. He also had a beard that needed some clean up, it was very unkempt and scraggly looking. I am not adverse to beards, I have a goatee myself, but his was very unattractive. He was also Moroccan and appeared to be traveling with an older couple who were both nicely groomed and well dressed. We all boarded the plane and I took my seat. Inexplicably, a man several rows behind me (I assume it was the plainly dressed man mentioned earlier) started yelling in Arabic. Other passengers on the plane began yelling back at him, he yelled at them, they yelled back at him with one woman sitting across the aisle from me even standing up to yell at him until finally one of the male flight attendants intervened and the situation calmed down.

Since I dont speak Arabic I had no idea what he was saying but he was yelling very loudly. Once everything settled down the door shut and we pushed from the gate with the man still on board. The female fight attendant who did the boarding announcements was clearly shaken by whatever happened because she practically spit the entire safety briefing out as one long sentence barely stopping to take a breath and occasionally using the word "American."

Once the seat belt sign came off another passenger came up and sat on the aisle in my row for the entire flight. Previous to this, i had the entire row to myself. Overall my row mate was amicable, when I asked what he did for a living he said he was an engineer and was from Italy. He also rattled off several european destinations he said he had been to. Also interesting that at some point during the flight he went up into first class and spoke with one of the flight attendants in the galley for several minutes. I assume he was either a sky marshal or just a good samaritan asked by the crew to sit near me in case there was trouble.

The rest of the flight was uneventful. The incident did rattle me enough that when I got to my hotel I changed my next day's travel to go directly from Casablanca to Kuwait via Abu Dhabi instead of my intended routing Casablanca-Tunis-Cairo- Kuwait.

What the whole thing got me to wondering was, if a passenger on a US domestic or international flight had started yelling loudly, whether it be in english or arabic or any other language, would he have been escorted off the plane by security? For that matter should the shouting passenger i referenced have been escorted off?

What does anyone think?

Please also feel free to share your own unsettling aviation moments.


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

He could be crazy or irate about something. Sometimes people blow up over the smallest things - maybe he didn´t like his seat. I´m sure if he seemed at all threatening they would have offloaded him.

User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5282 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

If you didn't understand Arabic, but the people who did understand Arabic weren't restraining him or trying to have him offloaded, wouldn't you tend to assume he was being obnoxious rather than threatening?


Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

If you were that curious, the simplest thing to do would have been to ask what was that all about to someone approachable who speaks the language. Instead of re-arranging your life based on voices in your head. At least that is what I would have done.

Then again, I am not that curious - I let professionals do their job even if they communicate amongst each other in languages I don't speak. Looks like you got in safe to CMN, so please tell us about something more interesting: e.g. RAM's in-flight experience.


User currently offlineaviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 41
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

Thank you for your trip report.

I too think your response was too tense.

Having handled RAM / AT flights at AMS for a number of years screaming passengers where not uncommon so now and then.



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3802 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

Quoting aviationfreak (Reply 8):
Having handled RAM / AT flights at AMS for a number of years screaming passengers where not uncommon so now and then.

Yes, I agree. I've traveled through almost all Arab countries in the world, and spent a good amount of time there, and it's a common thing tn their culture to scram and shout. (males only)
It often ends in physical pushing and shoving, but I've never seen an actual fight break out. Mostly other (male) people will restrain both fighters and calm them down by talking to them.

I really think you're over-reacting here. Screaming and shouting Arabs might make some Americans think of terrorists or similar and become uneasy, but when you travel to other parts of the world you have to expect people to behave differently.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlinebwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1366 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

2

I've been to Morocco 10 times or so just the last two years and I've had to deal a lot with Moroccans the last 10 years. Their culture, well the one of the Berber people, seems to thrive on conflict and whoever shouts the loudest wins the argument. Very macho, bullish and rude behaviour. But ofcourse, saying this will get you brandished a xenophobe and racist by political correct circles

[Edited 2012-12-07 12:45:15 by SA7700]


I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

Quoting bwest (Reply 11):

All this PC crap sickens me, rude behavior is rude behavior. I bet you there are Moroccans who feel the same way as we do. Behaving like an idiot in public is not PC, its just being an idiot. Respect for people around you is global.


User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6051 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 9):
All this PC crap sickens me, rude behavior is rude behavior. I bet you there are Moroccans who feel the same way as we do. Behaving like an idiot in public is not PC, its just being an idiot. Respect for people around you is global.

Rude behaviour by whose standards?
Are you trying to impose YOUR values on everybody and every society?
I personally dislike loud and (from my Western point of view) obnoxious people a lot, but when I enter their domain I accept their culture and way of life and deal with it.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinebwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1366 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6016 times:

Brussels and its airport arent exactly "their" domain. Even though you could be forgiven for thinking it is at times.


I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently onlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4923 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 8):
Rude behaviour by whose standards?

Those of people who behave reasonably well under any circumstance anywhere!
Remember you can't enforce your leftish standards on anyone you choose. Not all people goose-step to the sound
of the PC drum.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineaviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 41
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4428 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 5):
Yes, I agree. I've traveled through almost all Arab countries in the world, and spent a good amount of time there, and it's a common thing tn their culture to scram and shout. (males only)
It often ends in physical pushing and shoving, but I've never seen an actual fight break out. Mostly other (male) people will restrain both fighters and calm them down by talking to them.
Quoting bwest (Reply 6):
Their culture, well the one of the Berber people, seems to thrive on conflict and whoever shouts the loudest wins the argument. Very macho, bullish and rude behaviour.

Yep! That´s their way of debating. Although I do think some of them are just really rude and have no respect for the culture they migrated to.



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Quoting bwest (Reply 6):

I've been to Morocco 10 times or so just the last two years and I've had to deal a lot with Moroccans the last 10 years. Their culture, well the one of the Berber people, seems to thrive on conflict and whoever shouts the loudest wins the argument. Very macho, bullish and rude behaviour. But ofcourse, saying this will get you brandished a xenophobe and racist by political correct circles

id rather be a racist and concur. The only bad instances i've ever seen inflight, was by a turk, i reckon, as it was in turkish on a TK flight. But Moroccans are really rude and often their culture ruins alot of them in EU sense, when they try to make friends within my community (dance music community) . The only "fans" who ever caused me problems, were Moroccan, i really cant tell u why, but they just have a nasty attitude so many of them. I had a fan ask me for help in production of music, and I kindly declined, saying I was busy, and that there are great tutorials for beginners on youtube, and wished him good luck. I got hit by alot of nasty mail after that. From him, and from a few others, asking for files of mine, that they could then manipulate for their own benefit.

So honestly it's not a country I want to visit, or a people I want to be in contact with. Call me racist. I know that good Moroccans exist. But their mentality is not what most danish people would enjoy. I hope I never run into an incident with them inflight as they would scare me back to being a nervousflyer again...



Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
User currently offlineaviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 12):
So honestly it's not a country I want to visit, or a people I want to be in contact with. Call me racist. I know that good Moroccans exist. But their mentality is not what most danish people would enjoy. I hope I never run into an incident with them inflight as they would scare me back to being a nervousflyer again...

I have this feeling this discussion is heading in a direction where it will be locked or removed from the forum...not only because it's off thread now. It's going to be a non-av discussion

In response to the above I can say it's a country you'll like to visit. You'll be quite surprised with the beautiful country and the rich culture they have. People actualy can be quite nice and hospital up there.

Ok here it goes. I got an explanation from a Moroccan I met in New Zealand why so many of them cause so much trouble in some western European communities. It indeed has to do with the Moroccan culture to some extend. It's about how children are to be raised. In their culture children can be corrected by the neighbours, family members, or by others when they are out on the street and misbehave. That's definitely not the culture here. You just don't interfere with the upbringing of other peoples children.
So their children (predominantly the boys) never get corrected when they're out on the street hanging around with each other while misbehaving. Only by the police when it's to late. They more or less end up raising themselves and at some point they think they can do everything and have everything they want with all means necessary.
The girls however tend to stay home with the parents. They are doing fine at school and end up being well educated and having nice, atractive and civilized personalities.

It's just a bad mix of cultures and you can see that all over the world. I've seen it in Auckland, New Zealand where I've lived in the notorious southern part of the city for a while.

Or maybe, just maybe they inherited some french trades in their colonial past and ended up being worse at it   

Just my   


BTW, didn't AT order 787s? Maybe the mood lights will ease the incidental screamer.

[Edited 2012-12-08 09:52:40]


I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently onlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4923 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

What we have to realize is that some of these people just don't know any better. They are behaving according to the rules of their own culture and may not be aware that their behavior is bothering people from other more sedate cultures.
And just forcing political correctness down their throats isn't the answer either. I think that if they learned that while on airplanes they have to be more quiet and settle their disputes before boarding is more along the lines of what is needed.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
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