Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3573 posts, RR: 52 Posted (4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1293 times:
I've been wondering about this for a while:
Some of the world's largest metropolitan areas within short-haul distance from another are very well linked during daytime hours, with departures every hour, every half hour or even every ten minutes. Think MAD-BCN, LON-PAR, BOS-NYC and I'm sure there are others in Asia. But during the night, this frequency goes down to no flights for about 5 hours (usually last flights around midnight and first departures at 5 or 6). Why? Just because it's dark? These huge urban areas never sleep and there are lots of people who work or are awake during the night and sleep during the day.
Are there any short haul flights anywhere in the world within the time window of let's say 1 AM to 4 AM?
The closest thing I can think of are short-haul tag ons to long haul flights that are bookable individually. Or are there any flights that I'm missing?
Soren
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6473 posts, RR: 27 Reply 1, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1284 times:
Some issues to take into account:
- some airports have nightly curfews - or at least restrictions.
- many aircraft are busy all day and the night regularly is needed for line maintenance
- staff pay usually is higher during night shifts
For two of the three example you provided, namely MAD - BCN and LON - PAR, high-speed trains have eaten away much air traffic anyway, even during daylight hours.
Of course there are numerous charter flights between (Northern) Europe and the usual warm water destinations around the Mediterranean, operating in the wee hours utilizing last departure options from airports with curfew, then being back in the early morning.
For scheduled flights: Does SU 2135 IST to SVO (dep. 0140h - arr. 0650h, operated by a IL96 ) count ? Both metro areas have more than 10 million people living there.
Flights out of BKK could be another contender.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
Loubert From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1243 times:
KE608 (HKG-ICN) leaves at 0045 and gets in around 0445-0500. I took that in October 2011 and was surprised that they served a full meal and kept the cabin lights on full blast the entire time. That was on an A380.
SRQKEF From Iceland, joined Jun 2011, 692 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1175 times:
Hi Sören!
I think many flights inside the Middle East (DOH-DXB, BAH-AUH etc.) fly in the middle of the night to connect to the departure banks of the respective airlines (QR, EK, EY, GF, WY etc.). My dad flew BAH-AUH on EY in October and it left around 12.30am and arrived around 2am. He was surprised how full the flight was at that time even though it was operated by a A330.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21481 posts, RR: 24 Reply 4, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1139 times:
As mentioned, in Europe many airports have night curfews. At GVA and ZRH for example, there are no flights after about 2300 and no flights can leave before 0600. LHR has very severe night restrictions with only a few available slots, and if not mistaken they involved higher airport charges (landing fees etc.)
And, basically, very few people want to fly at night on shorthaul flights. And even if you could, public transport shuts down in many cities during the night and you'd be stuck with a very expensive taxi (often with a further night surcharge) to and from the airports in many cases.
planeguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1066 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1115 times:
Since you mentioned BOS-NYC I am not convinced anyone is really willing to fly 35 minutes (wheels up to down) in the middle of the night. With travel to/from airports you won't get much, if any sleep. This is, of course, ignoring the nighttime curfew at LGA.
I do the shuttle to DCA from LGA a few times per year. I can take the 6am flight and be having coffee with colleagues in downtown DC before 8am. No benefit to going any earlier.
Additionally, the fares that airlines would need to charge to fill these planes would be so low that no profit could ever be forecast.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6297 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1111 times:
Before deregulation correct me if I am wrong but airlines used to do this because they were allowed to have lower fares.
I don't know of many short haul flights but there are some odd medium haul flights on some airlines like B6 and NK to Central America and the Carribean with departures around 12-1am and arrivals around 2-4am.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2872 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1081 times:
America West used to have lots of Vegas departures at 1am that would arrive to places like Omaha (2hour time difference) at 5 am. Usually less than a 2 hour flight. Often on a regional jet. Yuck!!!
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4844 posts, RR: 27 Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1028 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter): Why? Just because it's dark? These huge urban areas never sleep and there are lots of people who work or are awake during the night and sleep during the day.
Most business between these metro areas is conducted during the day, and since they are so close, you can take a 06AM or 07AM flight and have a full day of work at your destinaion and then be back home in time for dinner and a good sleep. That is what people go for. Why then would you need to fly in the middle of the night?
And while you are right that some of these cities never sleep and are awake during the night, I can´t imagine a routine board meeting of a, say, huge insurance company between 03AM and 06AM. It just doesnt´happen.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4): And, basically, very few people want to fly at night on shorthaul flights.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6280 posts, RR: 23 Reply 10, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1020 times:
Quoting HT (Reply 1): Does SU 2135 IST to SVO (dep. 0140h - arr. 0650h, operated by a IL96 ) count ?
I used to take the SU LHR-SVO flight some years back that used to depart towards midnight, then along with the time difference arrive very early into Moscow, even though the flight was less than four hours. It was actually pretty harsh, as it wasn't long enough to properly sleep on the plane.
Well, cities technically may never sleep but the reality is that *most* people do at night. Aside from this inescapable truth that probably means demand isn't great for such unattractive services, noise restrictions must also play a part in limiting such movements in major urban areas.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8740 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1005 times:
The demand is low in the middle of the night. To operate just a few flights requires quite a bit of staff. Not only airport staff, but for the smaller airlines, the operations centers are relatively quiet at night to cover everything else, maintenance write-ups, dispatch, weather, etc. You also have to pay airport staff and the TSA has to be open. There’s a lot of cost to run a 2am flight that would have only marginal demand. Marginal demand would mean low fares.
In parts of the world there are many people crowding airports at night. Asia is a very busy place. From Hong Kong to Dubai is where night operations are extremely busy. Indian international airports are dead in the day, but busy at night. The Middle Eastern airlines have all sorts of flights in the middle of the night. Aeroflot has the oddest schedule at SVO that I still can’t comprehend.
In the US, the demand isn’t really there. You see some New York – Florida flights in the middle of the night and all the red eyes that feed connecting banks, but again no huge demand for short haul departures after 11pm. The latest bank of departures that I know of is UA at SFO around 1030pm.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21481 posts, RR: 24 Reply 13, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 934 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 11): In parts of the world there are many people crowding airports at night. Asia is a very busy place. From Hong Kong to Dubai is where night operations are extremely busy. Indian international airports are dead in the day, but busy at night. The Middle Eastern airlines have all sorts of flights in the middle of the night.
That's not because people want to fly at those hours but because of the geographical location, time zones, curfews at the destination and maximizing connectiity at both ends. For example, many flights leave India at uncivilized hours to permit the best connections in Europe.
FlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1893 posts, RR: 28 Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 822 times:
Yes.... I have heard from EK cabin crews that EK and other middle airlines have got lots of midnight flights (between 10pm to 3am) to fly anywhere around the world. Why? mechanic and other ground staff are able to work at night cos of cool weather. They can't or aren't allowed to work in the morning and afternoon cos of heat/hot weather. That's normal for the middle east workers. The builders can build buildings at night only.
Of course, most asian airlines have red-eye flights too.
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 350 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 735 times:
I am regularly on CebuPacific's 1.30am Sin to Mnl flight, arriving at the destination around 5am. Manila never sleeps and a short 3 minutes walk brings me from Terminal 3 to a public road where I can hail a passing jeepney for US 20 cents to the intersection of the LRT & MRT in Pasay City in the blink of an eye. Just the right time for breakfast at KFC or Jollybee before continuing on to wherever I want to go. Sometimes, when I want/need to kill a couple of hours, I would hop onto a complimentary shuttle to the nearby Resorts World Manila which operates 24 hours.
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