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Largest Routes Not Flown For Political Reasons?  
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9989 times:

What are the largest markets that do not have nonstop flights due to politics and flying restrictions between the countries? LAX-IKA and MIA-HAV immediately come to mind.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlueLine From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

Anywhere to FNJ that isn't flown by Air Koryo or Air China.

I don't know if it's considered a political reason, but AA to TLV.


User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

SEL-FNJ. Not sure if there is actually any market between these two due to long standing political divides but two large cities that are near each other that would likely have multi hourly service if not for the whole communist and subsequent war in the 1950s thing.

User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Ha ha, damn blueline, beat me by a few seconds.

User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9791 times:

Quoting BlueLine (Reply 1):
Anywhere to FNJ that isn't flown by Air Koryo or Air China.

I don't know if it's considered a political reason, but AA to TLV.

I guess FNJ is different in that the pool of people wanting to fly there is so much smaller than to, say, HAV.

I think that's more a question of AA's own issues with TLV, since UA and DL fly to TLV and relations between the two countries are very warm, to say the least.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9750 times:

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 2):
SEL-FNJ. Not sure if there is actually any market between these two due to long standing political divides but two large cities that are near each other that would likely have multi hourly service if not for the whole communist and subsequent war in the 1950s thing.

Very likely, yes.


User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9612 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9675 times:

For many years no airline service was allowed between Taiwan and Mainland China. This is part of the reason why Cathay Pacific grew so much since people had to transit via HKG or other airports.

For most of the 1990s, no Korean or Taiwanese airlines could fly between South Korea and Taiwan. Eventually the bilaterals were changed. Thai Airways and Cathay Pacific did start service on the route in the interim.

Currently there are very very few routes between India and Pakistan for political reasons.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9651 times:

There are something like a dozen flights a day between Miami and Havana, some on AA. I'm vexed by that example, what do you mean? (Sorry if I missed it, I need some coffee   )


“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 479 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9543 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
I think that's more a question of AA's own issues with TLV

  

When AA bought TWA they refused to pay some of the employees in Israel that were for some reason not paid by TWA.

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 7):

Not anyone can just freely buy a ticket on those flights, they're charters.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 910 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

TLV to the Gulf countries. It would be very easy to see EK, EY or QR with multiple daily flights to Tel Aviv for connections and tourism and businesses in both directions... if I am not mistaken Turkish Airlines is the most popular or one of the most popular foreign carriers in Israel now so religion and politics fortunately do not have much to do with price, service and connectivity.

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 2):

I doubt that would happen in the long term in a hypotetical reunification. Pyongyang is only 120 miles in a line to Seoul, and both Gimpo and Incheon are more towards the North Korean border (so they are even closer!). Kaesong, North Korean second largest city and their "industrial" center is about 40 miles to Seoul... if reunificated, it would almost become a Seoul suburb.

If I am not mistaken, FNJ is closer to Seoul than any other domestic South Korean airport with services to GMP/ICN. Probably currently there would be the issues with the lack of good road/train infrastructure, but I am sure in Asia they would plan a high-speed train service very quickly (just dreaming). TAE (Daegu) is slightly further than Pyongyang to Seoul and it only has services to ICN with KE for long-haul connections (there are not even services to GMP or Asiana to Seoul), the train is only 1h30'.

[Edited 2013-01-31 19:48:27]

User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6187 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9465 times:
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Mexico broke all diplomatic ties with Chile after Pinochet came to power. For years MEX-SCL had been a big market flown I believe by CP-Air. After 1973, all flights were gone.

When democracy returned to Chile, Lan Chile started flying to MEX one year later. It´s now back to being of the biggest Latin American markets out of MEX.



MGGS
User currently offlineODAFZ From Afghanistan, joined Jul 2004, 357 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8810 times:

DAM-TLV
BEY-TLV
LCA-IST
LCA-ANK
are few routes that come to mind


User currently offlinejfk787nyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8002 times:

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 11):

DAM-TLV
BEY-TLV
LCA-IST
LCA-ANK
are few routes that come to mind

Please advise why you would believe if DAM & BEY would even be on the list for flights between TLV?

I believe the topic is largest markets that are not served because of political reasons but do call for flights.

People in Israel would never travel to Lebanon or Syria for absolutely any reason. If there were peace it would take years for Israelis to even consider visiting these nations.

Lebanon is of course much higher on the list then Syria - As I am sure if it wasn't for the Hezobolah a large amount of Israelis would love to visit BEY for tourist and business purposes.

BEY actually falls in a list of cities were Israelis would thrive in business if they had a chance.

Turkey, UAE and Qatar are the three leading countries where Israelis are currently visiting and making fortunes.
Turkey is back and fourth trade -

UAE & Qatar fall into the category of business being done in the cities of Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
LAX-IKA and MIA-HAV immediately come to mind.

MIA-HAV is flown non stop mutliple times a day by various carriers including American, Delta, IBC, Songbird. I think Vision stopped flying that route. They also fly to TPA and FLL from HAV and eventually MCO.

One of the biggest routes I see not flown for political reasons is:

DTW - BEY and just about most other Mideast flights in that region (Syria, Iran, Palestinian areas)


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6663 times:

Not to get too technical, but FNJ-ICN and FNJ-SEL are both around 130 miles, so I'm not sure there would be multi-hourly flights... high speed train service though, is a different story.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently onlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3516 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

Does anyone operate flights between Yerevan and Istanbul? TK or Armenavia?


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User currently offlineSYDBCN From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6359 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 15):
Does anyone operate flights between Yerevan and Istanbul? TK or Armenavia?

Armavia operates 2 flights a week

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
MIA-HAV is flown non stop mutliple times a day by various carriers including American, Delta, IBC, Songbird. I think Vision stopped flying that route. They also fly to TPA and FLL from HAV and eventually MCO.

i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

Quoting SYDBCN (Reply 16):
i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...

They are special government-sanctioned charters. Certainly not for the open public.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

Quoting SYDBCN (Reply 16):
i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...

Something like 5 US airlines fly between the US and Cuba....it's all charter service. Think the last time I checked AA, DL UA, Silver and B6.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9450 for example.

http://www.abc-charters.com/pages/flights.asp

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 17):
Certainly not for the open public.

They are open to the public if you have a permit from the state department permitting Cuba travel.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3081 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

Quoting SYDBCN (Reply 16):
i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/MUHA/arrivals

Special charter flights only with government approval so probably should not be counted for the purpose of this thread.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5848 times:
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Quoting SYDBCN (Reply 16):
i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...

They are schedule charters and have restrictions on whom may buy and fly.
This morning there are arrivals from Miami at 9 and 10 am by Sky King 737s and at 11am by American Airlines B738 N865NN !

But sure is sure they exist. Seen them myself on a vacation to Cuba from the UK

For this thread my monies on TLV-THR. Prior history suggests significant traffic existed followed by TLV- JED there are many many hundreds of thousand of Israeli Arab Muslems and Iranian Jews that WOULD travel if allowed !

How about TLV-Morocco - a country with a Sephardi Jewish diaspora ?

[Edited 2013-02-01 06:38:09]

[Edited 2013-02-01 06:41:55]

User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Licenses to visit Cuba by US citizens are granted by the Bureau of Foreign Assets Control, a bureau of the Federal Department of Commerce. Additionally, US citizens of Cuban extraction are able to visit relatives in Cuba I think one time per year. This is also a primary reason for the charter flights.


Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlinedlphoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4695 times:

Quoting jfk787nyc (Reply 12):
Please advise why you would believe if DAM & BEY would even be on the list for flights between TLV?

There are multiple business and leisure opportunities that would support such travel. The train routes between Haifa and Damascus and Haifa and Beirut were quite busy before 1948. Just to name a few:
- Trade
- Utilizing available talent across the border
- Services
- Tourism
- VFRs

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 14):
Not to get too technical, but FNJ-ICN and FNJ-SEL are both around 130 miles, so I'm not sure there would be multi-hourly flights... high speed train service though, is a different story.

Driving for a norther suburb of Seoul to Pyong Yang is like driving from Chandler Arizona to Tucson.

You reach your destination faster than it would have taken you to reach the airpline.

DLP


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

In Africa, ADD-ASM comes to mind. Asmara was the second largest city in Ethiopia before Eritrea broke off. Even in the 80s, ET had daily flights b/w the two cities. Nowadays, I could have foreseen 3+ daily flights, if political challenges didn't get in the way.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 17):
They are special government-sanctioned charters. Certainly not for the open public.

I expect this policy to change soon, in this current term.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3011 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4133 times:
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Practically every South Korean airport with airline service has flights to Jeju, so I'd imagine the following routes to open up in a hypothetically reunited Korea.

Pyongyang-Jeju
Hamhung-Jeju
Sinuiju-Jeju

And in addition...

Pyongyang-Busan
Pyongyang-Tokyo
Pyongyang-Incheon (for connections)

Pyongyang-Incheon has been flown on an ad-hoc basis on numerous occasions, especially in the early 2000's at the height of South Korea's Sunshine Policy.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
25 EL-AL : I bet Singapore Airlines would fly to Tel Aviv tomorrow if they could. Other asian airlines not flying to TLV probably not doing so in order not to lo
26 2travel2know2 : Between TLV and CMN TUN THR JED DXB maybe BEY Between LAX JFK/EWR and THR Between Nicaragua and Colombia
27 StarAC17 : YUL-BEY on AC comes to mind as a route that has been tossed out there but has never started due to security reasons (Israel-Lebanon conflict in 2006)
28 WestJet747 : There could be a lot of oil traffic between YYC and DXB if it weren't for Canadian restrictions on UAE carriers. I remember hearing rumours that if th
29 StarAC17 : IIRC the Canadian government offered YYC and YVR to the UAE but the frequency increase at YYZ wasn't desired by EK showing that they really only want
30 FreshSide3 : If it wasn't both for politics AND aircraft range, SEA-Mogadishu. Besides Tehrangeles(as many Persians call LAX), there is also a big market for IAH-I
31 OA260 : No it would not be a sustainable route there are not that many left sadly and they have neither the freedom nor the money to travel. Believe me I hav
32 raffik : And Lebanese capital of the US! BEY-NYC is a massive market not served since the embassy bombing in 1980s. I am not sure about the above mentioned Be
33 747buff : Not sure how much of a market there would be today, but I remember reading that pre-revolution, El Al did quite well on the TLV-THR route.
34 raffik : A long time ago there were large Jewish communities across the middle east- even in Beirut. There are still synagogs etc but times have changed and we
35 OA260 : Indeed . Demography has changed never to return to what it was. Christians/Jews have been removed from many places in the Middle East like Egypt/Iraq
36 mah4546 : Miami-Valencia and Los Angeles Tehran are both approximately 140 PDEW, and neither are flown for political reasons. AA keeps trying to fly the former
37 Post contains images PlymSpotter : EVN-GYD is another route which would have a (comparatively) good amount of traffic, along the lines of GYD-TBS. Dan
38 FreshSide3 : NIC, of course, would be the natural choice......the reason I said ECN is because I haven't heard anything about that airport in years.......and pres
39 raffik : I haven't seen it yet but read that it had (or was going to be ) restored at a cost of a few million dollars. 50/60 years ago people did just "get al
40 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : If memory correct the CRJs couldn't be delivered as the airport was destroyed shortly before they were due to be delivered. They were parked at YUL f
41 FreshSide3 : Did ET also previously have flights to Massawa??
42 OA260 : Yes it still exists I saw it on one of my trips there. Its inside a controlled area though. The runway and building would need to be re built as its
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