DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7920 times:
What are the largest markets that do not have nonstop flights due to politics and flying restrictions between the countries? LAX-IKA and MIA-HAV immediately come to mind.
beechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 180 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7746 times:
SEL-FNJ. Not sure if there is actually any market between these two due to long standing political divides but two large cities that are near each other that would likely have multi hourly service if not for the whole communist and subsequent war in the 1950s thing.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7722 times:
Quoting BlueLine (Reply 1): Anywhere to FNJ that isn't flown by Air Koryo or Air China.
I don't know if it's considered a political reason, but AA to TLV.
I guess FNJ is different in that the pool of people wanting to fly there is so much smaller than to, say, HAV.
I think that's more a question of AA's own issues with TLV, since UA and DL fly to TLV and relations between the two countries are very warm, to say the least.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7681 times:
Quoting beechtobus (Reply 2): SEL-FNJ. Not sure if there is actually any market between these two due to long standing political divides but two large cities that are near each other that would likely have multi hourly service if not for the whole communist and subsequent war in the 1950s thing.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8754 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7606 times:
For many years no airline service was allowed between Taiwan and Mainland China. This is part of the reason why Cathay Pacific grew so much since people had to transit via HKG or other airports.
For most of the 1990s, no Korean or Taiwanese airlines could fly between South Korea and Taiwan. Eventually the bilaterals were changed. Thai Airways and Cathay Pacific did start service on the route in the interim.
Currently there are very very few routes between India and Pakistan for political reasons.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
FlyingSicilian From Croatia, joined Mar 2009, 824 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7582 times:
There are something like a dozen flights a day between Miami and Havana, some on AA. I'm vexed by that example, what do you mean? (Sorry if I missed it, I need some coffee )
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 461 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7396 times:
TLV to the Gulf countries. It would be very easy to see EK, EY or QR with multiple daily flights to Tel Aviv for connections and tourism and businesses in both directions... if I am not mistaken Turkish Airlines is the most popular or one of the most popular foreign carriers in Israel now so religion and politics fortunately do not have much to do with price, service and connectivity.
I doubt that would happen in the long term in a hypotetical reunification. Pyongyang is only 120 miles in a line to Seoul, and both Gimpo and Incheon are more towards the North Korean border (so they are even closer!). Kaesong, North Korean second largest city and their "industrial" center is about 40 miles to Seoul... if reunificated, it would almost become a Seoul suburb.
If I am not mistaken, FNJ is closer to Seoul than any other domestic South Korean airport with services to GMP/ICN. Probably currently there would be the issues with the lack of good road/train infrastructure, but I am sure in Asia they would plan a high-speed train service very quickly (just dreaming). TAE (Daegu) is slightly further than Pyongyang to Seoul and it only has services to ICN with KE for long-haul connections (there are not even services to GMP or Asiana to Seoul), the train is only 1h30'.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, RR: 27 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7396 times:
Mexico broke all diplomatic ties with Chile after Pinochet came to power. For years MEX-SCL had been a big market flown I believe by CP-Air. After 1973, all flights were gone.
When democracy returned to Chile, Lan Chile started flying to MEX one year later. It´s now back to being of the biggest Latin American markets out of MEX.
jfk787nyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5933 times:
Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 11):
DAM-TLV
BEY-TLV
LCA-IST
LCA-ANK
are few routes that come to mind
Please advise why you would believe if DAM & BEY would even be on the list for flights between TLV?
I believe the topic is largest markets that are not served because of political reasons but do call for flights.
People in Israel would never travel to Lebanon or Syria for absolutely any reason. If there were peace it would take years for Israelis to even consider visiting these nations.
Lebanon is of course much higher on the list then Syria - As I am sure if it wasn't for the Hezobolah a large amount of Israelis would love to visit BEY for tourist and business purposes.
BEY actually falls in a list of cities were Israelis would thrive in business if they had a chance.
Turkey, UAE and Qatar are the three leading countries where Israelis are currently visiting and making fortunes.
Turkey is back and fourth trade -
UAE & Qatar fall into the category of business being done in the cities of Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3084 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4669 times:
MIA-HAV is flown non stop mutliple times a day by various carriers including American, Delta, IBC, Songbird. I think Vision stopped flying that route. They also fly to TPA and FLL from HAV and eventually MCO.
One of the biggest routes I see not flown for political reasons is:
DTW - BEY and just about most other Mideast flights in that region (Syria, Iran, Palestinian areas)
TWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4594 times:
Not to get too technical, but FNJ-ICN and FNJ-SEL are both around 130 miles, so I'm not sure there would be multi-hourly flights... high speed train service though, is a different story.
'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
SYDBCN From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 32 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4290 times:
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 15): Does anyone operate flights between Yerevan and Istanbul? TK or Armenavia?
Armavia operates 2 flights a week
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13): MIA-HAV is flown non stop mutliple times a day by various carriers including American, Delta, IBC, Songbird. I think Vision stopped flying that route. They also fly to TPA and FLL from HAV and eventually MCO.
i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...
Braniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2631 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4002 times:
Quoting SYDBCN (Reply 16): i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...
They are special government-sanctioned charters. Certainly not for the open public.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3779 times:
Quoting SYDBCN (Reply 16): i cannot see any MIA-HAV flights operated by anyone... certainly not USA airlines...
They are schedule charters and have restrictions on whom may buy and fly.
This morning there are arrivals from Miami at 9 and 10 am by Sky King 737s and at 11am by American Airlines B738 N865NN !
But sure is sure they exist. Seen them myself on a vacation to Cuba from the UK
For this thread my monies on TLV-THR. Prior history suggests significant traffic existed followed by TLV- JED there are many many hundreds of thousand of Israeli Arab Muslems and Iranian Jews that WOULD travel if allowed !
How about TLV-Morocco - a country with a Sephardi Jewish diaspora ?
DCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 582 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2758 times:
Licenses to visit Cuba by US citizens are granted by the Bureau of Foreign Assets Control, a bureau of the Federal Department of Commerce. Additionally, US citizens of Cuban extraction are able to visit relatives in Cuba I think one time per year. This is also a primary reason for the charter flights.
dlphoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 412 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2626 times:
Quoting jfk787nyc (Reply 12): Please advise why you would believe if DAM & BEY would even be on the list for flights between TLV?
There are multiple business and leisure opportunities that would support such travel. The train routes between Haifa and Damascus and Haifa and Beirut were quite busy before 1948. Just to name a few:
- Trade
- Utilizing available talent across the border
- Services
- Tourism
- VFRs
Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 14): Not to get too technical, but FNJ-ICN and FNJ-SEL are both around 130 miles, so I'm not sure there would be multi-hourly flights... high speed train service though, is a different story.
Driving for a norther suburb of Seoul to Pyong Yang is like driving from Chandler Arizona to Tucson.
You reach your destination faster than it would have taken you to reach the airpline.
ETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 624 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
In Africa, ADD-ASM comes to mind. Asmara was the second largest city in Ethiopia before Eritrea broke off. Even in the 80s, ET had daily flights b/w the two cities. Nowadays, I could have foreseen 3+ daily flights, if political challenges didn't get in the way.
Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 17): They are special government-sanctioned charters. Certainly not for the open public.
I expect this policy to change soon, in this current term.
HOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2670 posts, RR: 54 Reply 24, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2064 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Practically every South Korean airport with airline service has flights to Jeju, so I'd imagine the following routes to open up in a hypothetically reunited Korea.
Pyongyang-Incheon has been flown on an ad-hoc basis on numerous occasions, especially in the early 2000's at the height of South Korea's Sunshine Policy.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
EL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1123 posts, RR: 5 Reply 25, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2188 times:
I bet Singapore Airlines would fly to Tel Aviv tomorrow if they could. Other asian airlines not flying to TLV probably not doing so in order not to loose the arab market, Air China, China Southern, Cathay Pacific and Thai come to mind. Korean Air, who do fly to Israel, operate pretty successful route.
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 9): TLV to the Gulf countries. It would be very easy to see EK, EY or QR with multiple daily flights to Tel Aviv for connections and tourism and businesses in both directions... if I am not mistaken Turkish Airlines is the most popular or one of the most popular foreign carriers in Israel now so religion and politics fortunately do not have much to do with price, service and connectivity.
For sure, EK could fill up few daily flights out of Israel connecting the Israelis to the rest of the world. Just look at Royal Jordanian, relatively small airline - on some of it's far east flights up to 50% of passengers are Israelis!
Turkish airlines is indeed doing well in Israel, based on the connecting traffic, so as the low cost Pegasus Airlines.
"In our country, those who do not believe in miracles are irrational" - David Ben Gurion.
StarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3226 posts, RR: 9 Reply 27, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1572 times:
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13): DTW - BEY and just about most other Mideast flights in that region (Syria, Iran, Palestinian areas)
YUL-BEY on AC comes to mind as a route that has been tossed out there but has never started due to security reasons (Israel-Lebanon conflict in 2006) and political pressure post 9/11, IIRC this route was considered as early as 2003.
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1273 posts, RR: 7 Reply 28, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1562 times:
There could be a lot of oil traffic between YYC and DXB if it weren't for Canadian restrictions on UAE carriers. I remember hearing rumours that if the bilateral were changed to allow more flights, YYC would be EK's next destination after the currently served YYZ.
StarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3226 posts, RR: 9 Reply 29, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1529 times:
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 28): There could be a lot of oil traffic between YYC and DXB if it weren't for Canadian restrictions on UAE carriers. I remember hearing rumours that if the bilateral were changed to allow more flights, YYC would be EK's next destination after the currently served YYZ.
IIRC the Canadian government offered YYC and YVR to the UAE but the frequency increase at YYZ wasn't desired by EK showing that they really only wanted unlimited access to YYZ.
Also DXB isn't a big oil market compared to other areas in the region, QR and EY would be better choices to serve YYC to support oil traffic.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1411 times:
If it wasn't both for politics AND aircraft range, SEA-Mogadishu.
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter): What are the largest markets that do not have nonstop flights due to politics and flying restrictions between the countries? LAX-IKA and MIA-HAV immediately come to mind.
Besides Tehrangeles(as many Persians call LAX), there is also a big market for IAH-IKA, too.
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
DTW - BEY and just about most other Mideast flights in that region (Syria, Iran, Palestinian areas)
DTW-SDA......been talks about this for years, but nothing happening as of yet. Detroit is the Iraqi capital of the USA.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24929 posts, RR: 60 Reply 31, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1320 times:
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 30): By the same token, ATH-ECN........a number of Greeks still live in the North part of Cyprus.
No it would not be a sustainable route there are not that many left sadly and they have neither the freedom nor the money to travel. Believe me I have been there myself and talked to them in the small Greek enclaves that exist. There may one day be a jointly operated Nicosia Airport which serves both North and South something like a mini BSL Europort but that is at least 10-20 years away if at all. Then you would see LCA operations move to NIC and so NIC-ATH etc.. would be the route but not ECN.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1646 posts, RR: 4 Reply 34, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1022 times:
A long time ago there were large Jewish communities across the middle east- even in Beirut.
There are still synagogs etc but times have changed and we are a much more divided land mass.
I don't think TLV-THR would ever re commence in our life time.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24929 posts, RR: 60 Reply 35, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1012 times:
Quoting raffik (Reply 34): A long time ago there were large Jewish communities across the middle east- even in Beirut.
There are still synagogs etc but times have changed and we are a much more divided land mass.
I don't think TLV-THR would ever re commence in our life time.
Indeed . Demography has changed never to return to what it was. Christians/Jews have been removed from many places in the Middle East like Egypt/Iraq/Iran/Lebanon etc... I saw the the restored Synagogue in Beirut when I was there . Well at least got a climpse of it. Totally fenced off and swarming with armed guards and no photos allowed. I doubt the 150 Jews left in Lebanon would warrant flights anytime soon ! The only time I see TLV-BEY is maybe 20-30 years down the line if and when peace comes and then trade starts. Hard to imagine though.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 36, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 974 times:
Miami-Valencia and Los Angeles Tehran are both approximately 140 PDEW, and neither are flown for political reasons. AA keeps trying to fly the former - and in fact renewed its route authority today - to no avail.
Montreal-Beiruit is far larger than either DTWBEY/NYCBEY. It is around 115 PDEW and also not flown for political reasons, as we've seen from the Air Canada debacle about a decade back.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 869 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 31): No it would not be a sustainable route there are not that many left sadly and they have neither the freedom nor the money to travel. Believe me I have been there myself and talked to them in the small Greek enclaves that exist. There may one day be a jointly operated Nicosia Airport which serves both North and South something like a mini BSL Europort but that is at least 10-20 years away if at all. Then you would see LCA operations move to NIC and so NIC-ATH etc.. would be the route but not ECN.
NIC, of course, would be the natural choice......the reason I said ECN is because I haven't heard anything about that airport in years.......and presumed that it was closed/demolished......
raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1646 posts, RR: 4 Reply 39, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 824 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 35): The only time I see TLV-BEY is maybe 20-30 years down the line if and when peace comes and then trade starts. Hard to imagine though.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 35): I saw the the restored Synagogue in Beirut when I was there .
I haven't seen it yet but read that it had (or was going to be ) restored at a cost of a few million dollars.
50/60 years ago people did just "get along" - even in Palestine, the Palestinians and Jewish lived side
by side and were friends. It's always the extremists that upset the balance (PLO, initial Zion invasion etc).
Anyway, during a cease fire and peace treaty in the 1980s, Israel and Lebanon even mentioned having
direct flights from Beirut to Tel Aviv, they even decided on the frequency- I believe it was 4 weekly with
707s at the time. But then the country descended into more problems.
Oddly enough, ME *could* do well out of TLV, it would probably be a preferred airline for Palestinians traveling
to Europe and the Middle East, connecting through Beirut. However, I don't see it happening, peace or the
resumption of flights for a very very very long time.
It would be nice to see Palestinian Airlines resuming flights from Gaza. Didn't they have 2 CRJs and a 727?
The airport in Gaza is in pieces, it would take a long time to restore it.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 40, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 773 times:
Quoting raffik (Reply 39): It would be nice to see Palestinian Airlines resuming flights from Gaza. Didn't they have 2 CRJs and a 727?
If memory correct the CRJs couldn't be delivered as the airport was destroyed shortly before they were due to be delivered. They were parked at YUL for quite a while before they found new homes.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 651 times:
Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 23): In Africa, ADD-ASM comes to mind. Asmara was the second largest city in Ethiopia before Eritrea broke off. Even in the 80s, ET had daily flights b/w the two cities. Nowadays, I could have foreseen 3+ daily flights, if political challenges didn't get in the way.
Yes it still exists I saw it on one of my trips there. Its inside a controlled area though. The runway and building would need to be re built as its not useable at all in its present state. So basically knock down and start again. Still its a decent site for any new NIC. Would be kind of sad in a way as its history frozen in time but it cant stay like that forever.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, 
From Croatia, joined Mar 2009, 824 posts, 
)
From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, 
From Greece, joined Jul 2004, 348 posts, 
From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3321 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 32 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2000 posts, 
From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 624 posts, 
From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1123 posts, 
From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2015 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24929 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, 
From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11141 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
