Sponsor Message:
Travel Polls & Prefs Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Unprofessional Appearance?  
User currently offlinee38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 327 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

I was recently on a Delta Connection flight on a CRJ-900. There were two flight attendants aboard; a woman assigned to the first class cabin and a gentleman--young man; perhaps late 20s--working in the coach cabin.

I was surprised to see the male flight attendant was not wearing a tie, even though his white shirt seemed to be designed to be worn with a tie.
He performed his duties satisfactorily--served beverages to the passengers in the coach cabin; then helped the first class flight attendant in the galley--but I thought his appearance seemed very unprofessional to be representing a major airline. I don't think I have ever seen a male flight attendant on a U.S. air carrier not wearing a tie while on duty.

Is this normal, and are crews allowed to establish their own personal appearance standards? I would be interested to hear any opinions on this issue, particularly from A.netters who are flight attendants.

Also, I was able to see his name and crew base on his I.D. badge; would it be of any benefit to send a letter to his supervisor? I certainly don't think he should be fired for this, but perhaps it would be appropriate for a flight attendant manager to speak with him about proper dress and appearance.

Any thoughts?

e38

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4072 times:

FWIW:

I don't care what a flight attendant looks like. Did he do his job properly? It seems so, and that's enough for me. It should be enough for everyone, but I guess you "take offense".

First world problem #3551: My F/A wasn't wearing a tie.


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4039 times:

I'm with you e38. I think personal grooming is important.

Why? Because we are hard-wired to equate a high standard of personal appearance with pride in one's job, and competence. And I believe it's true - this biological stereotype of mine doesn't usually let me down. In any service vacation, the person dressed like a slob will generally provide a lower level of service than one who takes pride in the way they look.

NZ have a cohort of 55 year old obese male flight attendants. They are invariably lazy, bumbling, and generally hopeless. Alongside them will be some hard working 20 year old who will do 90% of the work and customer interaction on the flight.


User currently offlineATCtower From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 538 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

You said he did his job well, is the tie the only thing? All other grooming complete? (ie combed hair, reasonably decent smelling, clean hands)

I have had FA's with all of the above and it is far worse than not wearing a tie. The way the world is going is tieless... Most banks no longer make male employees wear them, heck, even pilots all wear clip-on's now (I know, security measure but still).

If the tie is the only thing wrong with his appearance you are super uptight and running to tattle to his supervisor would be immature and unproductive.



By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Am I actually reading this, guess so!

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
would it be of any benefit to send a letter to his supervisor? I certainly don't think he should be fired for this, but perhaps it would be appropriate for a flight attendant manager to speak with him about proper dress and appearance.



First of all who says it isn't proper dress and appearance? I for one love a more casual appearance. Next, do you know what the operators flight attendant manual has for dress code?

I've flown on SkyWest with one of the flight attendants wearing knee high leather boots along with her skirt and blouse....it looked wonderful on her and fit her style very nice. Didn't once think about writing a letter to anyone about her appearance but I would have about her doing her job incredibly well of keeping us all safe and well treated.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 960 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Aren't there any number of LCCs that have flight attendant uniforms for men comprised of slacks and polo shirts with which one typically does not wear a tie? It seems like there are plenty of photos in the trip reports forum of male flight attendants on LCCs who wear uniforms that do not include ties. I'm not saying that on the flight in question that was the case (the OP indicates that the shirt the FA was wearing was of the type one would wear with a tie), but informality in dress code is becoming more common in the airline industry so it wouldn't surprise me if the dress code at the Delta Connection partner permits male FAs to go without a tie.

User currently offlinebaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Definition of uniform
adjective
Remaining the same in all cases and at all times; unchanging in form.

Different airlines adopt a varied approach to their uniform, as dictated by management/customer profile. Perhaps this airline allows the removal of ties in certain temperatures/circumstances etc, certain LCC or regional airlines may have a casual approach to their uniform standards depending on how professional an image they want to project. I know in the US, rules around uniform wearing are very relaxed at the best of times.

The airline I work for has an extremely robust set of rules when in uniform, to remove a tie would be unthinkable, not least from a safety point of view as passengers need to know who is in charge in an emergency situation (how many people wear shirts onboard) not to mention how unprofessional it looks serving valued customers looking like you are clocking off for the day? I believe that wearing a tie and in fact the uniform correctly instills a sense of pride, duty and professionalism in work.

I wouldn't go as far as writing in to head office, if you had/have a problem with him you should have either approached the individual or the person in charge on the day, for all you know he might have been feeling unwell or had the tie removed due to it being damaged/unwearable in any case you would have received an explanation.


User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 960 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 6):
had the tie removed due to it being damaged/unwearable

Good point. Perhaps something spilled on the tie and the airline may have a rule that in the event a tie is soiled or stained beyond repair it is to be removed until such time that a clean replacement tie can be obtained.


User currently offlineairtrainer From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 1557 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
Also, I was able to see his name and crew base on his I.D. badge; would it be of any benefit to send a letter to his supervisor? I certainly don't think he should be fired for this, but perhaps it would be appropriate for a flight attendant manager to speak with him about proper dress and appearance.

Man, you seriously need a break  



Life is short : eat dessert first !
User currently offlinePatagon From Chile, joined Aug 2011, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

I think this topic is sad  

User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting Patagon (Reply 9):
I think this topic is sad  

I agree! Some of the best FA's I've ever encountered were on WN, some wearing polo shirts and shorts. You didn't have any trouble knowing who they were because they had a Southwest logo on the shirt.

Just because someone has a tie doesn't mean they are the ones to listen to in an emergency. I know lots of people who travel on short domestic flights in business attire. Even I do once in a while, but since my business trips are mostly to LAS nearly everyone wears shorts much of the year, even the cabin crews. I've never seen a pilot in shorts but maybe I'm not paying enough attention.


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
Some of the best FA's I've ever encountered were on WN, some wearing polo shirts and shorts

I too have had similar experiences on WN. But the polo shirts and shorts were worn in a tidy fashion. Way better than a tie-less white shirt hanging out over the back with 100lbs of gut hanging over the front.


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6130 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3700 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
He performed his duties satisfactorily--served beverages to the passengers in the coach cabin; then helped the first class flight attendant in the galley--

So, he did his job in a pretty good way, didn´t he?

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
I don't think I have ever seen a male flight attendant on a U.S. air carrier not wearing a tie while on duty.

Seems you have not travelled much.

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
Also, I was able to see his name and crew base on his I.D. badge; would it be of any benefit to send a letter to his supervisor? I certainly don't think he should be fired for this, but perhaps it would be appropriate for a flight attendant manager to speak with him about proper dress and appearance.

So. A guy who performed his duties "satisfactorily" as you say, deserves to be written a letter to his supervisor? Have you stopped to consider why he was not wearing a tie?

1) It got a horrible stain
2) It got bloody taking care of a passenger in a previous flight that had a medical issue
3) It got ripped in some freak accident
4) He has an irritated neck from shaving
5) He has a rash
6) It got lost

Do you think you deserve an explanation of why he was not wearing a tie? Why? Who appointed you the airline´s uniform police?

By the way, you should also complain in your letter about the captain, WHO ALTHOUGH DELIVERED YOU TO YOUR DESTINATION SAFELY, allowed a cabin crew member on board, OMG without a tie!!

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
a woman assigned to the first class cabin

Just for the sake of it I´d like to know how was the "woman" dressed that you did not consider her to be "unprofesionally appearanced"

Sad, pathetic thread, and a waste of bandwith really.



MGGS
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5177 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Geez, some hate for the OP...

In this case I am sure your flight was on SkyWest right? For some reason they wear there own uniform (which does include an open collar white shirt) rather than the standard Delta uniform worn by other DLcon carriers.

In this case I think that it depends on the carrier as much as anything else. As pointed out above WN has a casual uniform, and I would expect EZY to have something orange etc etc. If you're flying a world class legacy, though, I would expect something more formal. In light of that I do agree with the OP, I never got used to the last NZ uniform having the option of not wearing a tie, and I dislike the DL turtle neck shirts.

As gasman says the WN polo shirt looks smart is well pressed and not worn in a slobby manner. To me it isn't all that important at the end of the day what the uniform is so long as it worn well. What REALLY grates me though is when FAs don't wear their uniform (however construed) smartly. Last year on a DL (mainline) flight one of the FAs had his sleeves pushed up, not even rolled up, but shoved somewhere above his elbows! I could not believe it!!!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1985 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3444 times:

Well... It would be better to leave him alone. Nobody care about it. If you complain to the airline manager about him (you got his name and ID card), it means that you want him to lose his job and lose his reputation. That's not acceptable. Don't worry about it, airline manager or supervisor will take care of them.

If you are in the western world, cabin crews can do whatever they like. I have seen them smoking while wearing in uniform at the outside airport. Most of them didn't wear jacket at the outside airport, terminal and outside gate but inside the plane, they must wear jacket to greet pax during boarding time. Therefore, it's none of their business.

If you are in the middle east or asia, cabin crews must follow the airlines policy about how to wear proper uniform. They are very strict with their uniform and behaviour. Flight attendant superviors have to check on all her staff to make sure they wear uniform properly and hairstyle as well.



The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlinee38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13), "I am sure your flight was on SkyWest? For some reason they wear their own uniform (which does include an open collar white shirt) rather than the standard Delta uniform."

RyanairGuru, yes, it was Skywest. Thank you very much for the explanation--I didn't know Skywest's male flight attendants had the option of wearing the white, button-down dress shirt without a tie. That explains it completely. Thank you also for your "civil" response to my question.

The reason I posted this topic under the "Travel, Polls and Preferences" forum was I thought the definition of a "poll" was a "sampling or collection of opinions." The basic premise of the topic was that a male flight attendant wearing a white, dress-type shirt without a tie did not present a very professional appearance (my opinion only--not trying to be uniform police) and I wondered whether others thought the same thing.

I never stated a flight attendant wearing a polo shirt and shorts (i.e. Southwest) was unprofessional. In fact, I think the uniforms worn by the Southwest flight attendants are very professional. Southwest traditionally marketed itself as a "leisure" carrier and this appearance is consistent with their branding. The legacy carriers, on the other hand, for example, American, United, Southwest, USAirways--tend to be more "business" oriented and seem to prefer a more "corporate" look for their crews.

That is what I was expecting when traveling aboard a "Delta Connection" carrier. I thought their goal was "consistent branding."

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 1), "I don't care what a flight attendant looks like. Did he do his job properly? It seems so, and that's enough for me."

dc9northwest, if that's your opinion, that's great, and I respect it, but I would have to say that is probably NOT the consensus at most airline management. Otherwise, when flight attendants completed training, they would be told, "When we assign you a trip, wear whatever you like; it doesn't matter what you look like as long as you do your job properly." I"m not so sure that's the case.

Do you think dress and appearance are not important with the airlines? Ask the cabin crews of Emirates, Korean Air, or Cathay Pacific, just as examples, and even in the U.S., which has become much more casual, flight attendants are normally dressed very professionally.

Still don't think uniforms are important? Ask Richard Tyler. He's the designer who created the Delta collection.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 12), "Sad, pathetic thread, and a waste of bandwith really."

Because I stated an "opinion?" AR385, mi amigo, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I thank you for taking the time to respond. Lo siento mucho.

"Seems you have not travelled much."

Well, I'm not a "road warrior," but I have flown some. That's why this particular F/A stood out in my view.

"Just for the sake of it I´d like to know how was the "woman" dressed that you did not consider her to be "unprofesionally appearanced"

Well, the way the female flight attendant was dressed had absolutely nothing to do with this topic, which is why I didn't mention her appearance, but if you want to know, she was wearing a white blouse, dark skirt, and black shoes. Her appearance seemed to be completely consistent with the way flight attendants dress at the legacy carriers. The gentleman did not.

and, as far as the reasons you listed for not wearing a tie, it could also have been reason number 7, "He doesn't particularly like wearing ties and isn't going to wear one."

Quoting Patagon (Reply 9), "I think this topic is sad."

Solamente mi opinion--nada mas.

I think we can close down this topic now as there is nothing more to be gained from further discussion. It was not designed to be a "life altering" discussion; simply a question on the "professional appearance" of a male flight attendant wearing a white, button-down, dress shirt without a tie!

e38


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6130 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3011 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting e38 (Reply 15):
It was not designed to be a "life altering" discussion;

It was, "mi amigo", at least it would have been for said FA when you stated:

Quoting e38 (Thread starter):
Also, I was able to see his name and crew base on his I.D. badge; would it be of any benefit to send a letter to his supervisor? I certainly don't think he should be fired for this, but perhaps it would be appropriate for a flight attendant manager to speak with him about proper dress and appearance.



MGGS
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3607 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
It was, "mi amigo", at least it would have been for said FA when you stated:

Not sure I would count "being spoken to" about your work attire as a "life altering" discussion. I think any of us who have worked at any job for any length of time have probably had that discussion with one boss or another at one time or another; if it did alter our lives, it only did so in that from then on, we had to wear ties at work.

Anyway, generally speaking I feel that uniforms exist for a reason, and that is to be "uniform" and to identify that person clearly as someone meant to perform a specific function. While this f/a may have only been following the policy of his airline, then it's the airline's policy that's at fault and someone should still be notified of that fact.

Not every f/a needs to wear a tie, but they should all be wearing "uniforms" in that their attire should positively identify their function and they should all be wearing the same thing. I have never understood or agreed with uniforms that provide "options" for what to wear. What's the point of even having a uniform, then? Just let the f/a's come in wearing cargo shorts and t-shirts in that case, and open up the intercom mic to a competition among the passengers to see who has the most convincing voice in order to identify who the real f/a is.

I don't mind if a company's uniform *is* a t-shirt and cargo shorts, but then every f/a should be wearing the same t-shirt and cargo shorts, not either a t-shirt and cargo shorts *or* a bowling shirt and jeans.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21513 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
In this case I am sure your flight was on SkyWest right? For some reason they wear there own uniform (which does include an open collar white shirt) rather than the standard Delta uniform worn by other DLcon carriers.

Because they don't just fly for DL. The same crew might fly both DL and UA-coded flights in the same day, and it would look pretty strange to have a UA-coded flight with the crew wearing a DL uniform.

Besides which, why should they wear the DL uniform? They're not DL, they're Skywest.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The Most Unprofessional Airline posted Sun Jun 19 2005 22:40:51 by Samair