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UA Mileage Plus Adds Elite Minimum Spend  
User currently onlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7953 times:

According to USA Today, United will join Delta in requiring minimum spends on UA-issued tickets in addition to reaching mileage threshholds to qualify for Premier status starting in 2014.

The spends are the same as DL's I believe--$2,500 for Premier Silver; $5,000 for Gold; $7,500 for Platinum; and $10,000 for 1K.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...o-elite-status-qualifying/2433545/


"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7927 times:

From the source:

http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7684 times:

Excellent   

IMO, loyalty programs should have long been tied to spending, not simply churning miles.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5630 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7613 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
IMO, loyalty programs should have long been tied to spending, not simply churning miles.

And in my opinion it takes out almost all of.... what the fun? the skill? the interesting part of of being a true FF of an airline. It reduces it to that one thing that everything is rated in: $$$.

I think many av fans and fans of airlines and FF's in general take great joy and/or appreciation in being able to "build miles" via looking at routing and work with available deals to achieve FF levels. This move, while understandable from strictly dollars and sense approach takes much of what I mentioned out of the equation. So it is what it is and it makes sense but they will lose people with it. But I they are obviously OK with that as they are also reducing the customer benefit on the redemption side of the FF programs.

I'll miss people doing "mileage runs". Ah well, progress.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1399 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7595 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
From the source:
http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/fa....html

Thank you for posting the definitive FAQ, gave me the answer I needed:  

"Does the Premier qualifying dollars (PQD) requirement apply to members who reside outside of the United States?
No. The Premier qualifying dollar (PQD) requirement only applies to members whose primary MileagePlus account address is in the 50 United States or the District of Columbia."

For those in the US, worth noting this caveat:
"Do taxes count as Premier qualifying dollars (PQD)?
No. Government imposed taxes, fees, and charges are not eligible for Premier qualifying dollars (PQD)"



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User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 913 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7550 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
I'll miss people doing "mileage runs". Ah well, progress.

Why would you need to stop mileage runs?

I mean I understand if you weren't spending $$$ with an airline you don't deserve status. But I don't understand why you still wouldn't enjoy racking up miles.



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineCOEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7486 times:

As far as I am concerned, it is no big deal since I do more than those thresholds anyway.

User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7485 times:

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 5):
But I don't understand why you still wouldn't enjoy racking up miles.

In most cases it'll be far cheaper to just buy miles outright than fly mileage runs, if you don't have high enough status to earn elite bonuses.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5630 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7485 times:

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 5):
Why would you need to stop mileage runs?

Mileage runs are done to get status and in general refers to doing a maximized mileage trips for the least money/time to meet the status level you want (finding that on sale trip for $99 say between SAN and LAX that gives you a minimum of 500 miles each way). As things switch to just dollars thresholds that won't be done. FF's (those desiring to be FF's) will need to do "money runs" to spend up the the required amount for status.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
In most cases it'll be far cheaper to just buy miles outright than fly mileage runs, if you don't have high enough status to earn elite bonuses.

 checkmark 
Why waste time and go through hassles at the airport etc when it is easier and less time to simply buy the miles?

Tugg

[Edited 2013-06-18 09:03:09]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7347 times:

On the one hand, I am glad to see this. Those people that spend the most should get the perks. The standby lists for upgrades are too long. I wonder if they should just get rid of the mileage requirement all together. This new system is a step in the right direction, but won't this potentially hurt someone who takes a very expensive international trip (meeting the $ threshold) but doesn't quite have the miles?


From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7145 times:

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 9):
This new system is a step in the right direction, but won't this potentially hurt someone who takes a very expensive international trip (meeting the $ threshold) but doesn't quite have the miles?

It's still a frequent flyer program, not a frequent spender program. It should be based on miles. If they want to add a spending qualification, so be it, that's a separate issue.

Who will get hosed: Those buying tickets which have UA or partner airline segments, but the ticket is plated on another airline's stock. Those won't count towards PQDs.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 601 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

It was only a matter of time. AA can't be far behind.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 9):
but won't this potentially hurt someone who takes a very expensive international trip (meeting the $ threshold) but doesn't quite have the miles?

I think that they still want to reward loyalty, and the easiest way to recognize loyalty is by counting flight segments or miles. So I guess the guy who buys a Global First ticket to HKG will be the one who is still doing mileage runs to get status next year, while the rest of us will be couning pennies instead of pounding on gcmap.com to figure out which route is longer. As for the comment about buying miles being cheaper than doing the run, I doubt that the cash spent to buy miles will count toward the spend requirement. And purchased miles don't typically count for qualification either, except during the occasional end-of-year promotion.



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User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 11):
As for the comment about buying miles being cheaper than doing the run, I doubt that the cash spent to buy miles will count toward the spend requirement.

You're correct, but part of the deal with mileage runs was earning cheap spendable miles. Now that spend thresholds will be difficult for those flying on cheap tickets to meet, it will make it more difficult to earn miles this way for a low price. The elite bonuses which bring RDM levels down to 2¢ or less won't be part of the equation unless you have other flying or the CC waiver working on your behalf.

Better off to buy miles using the award accelerator or other means if you just want cheap miles to turn into premium class international award tickets.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3656 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6856 times:

I don't see this as a bad thing. The spending limits aren't extravagant and if you can't meet those, you have no business being an elite anyway.


PHX based
User currently offlinelindberghflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6822 times:

This really ups the ante for AA to do the same. If they don't, they are very likely to end up with the dregs of the ff world-the people who DL and UA shook out of their programs. Having these people, plus having the low-rev AAdvantage elite members (and soon dividend milers) will significantly degrade AAdvantage. When you combine this with changes like the a319 being only 9f, you can see how AAdvantage could become highly undesirable for high revenue frequent fliers (outside of Dallas and Miami at least and excluding people who pay for F ALL the time).

User currently onlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Who will get hosed: Those buying tickets which have UA or partner airline segments, but the ticket is plated on another airline's stock. Those won't count towards PQDs.

It looks like if you buy your ticket on United.com and get a 016 ticket you will get your PQD's.

"You will earn Premier qualifying dollars (PQD) on most:
Flights operated by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases"


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6755 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
It looks like if you buy your ticket on United.com and get a 016 ticket you will get your PQD's.

Yes, that's why I pointed out that those likely to get hurt the most will be those who get plated on another airline's stock. Some people, like those who go through corporate travel agents, don't have the luxury of directing their tickets onto 016 stock.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6683 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
And in my opinion it takes out almost all of.... what the fun? the skill? the interesting part of of being a true FF of an airline. It reduces it to that one thing that everything is rated in: $$$.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 13):
I don't see this as a bad thing. The spending limits aren't extravagant and if you can't meet those, you have no business being an elite anyway.

So, we see there are two sides to every argument.

Now, I have intention, whatsoever, of ceasing mileage junkets -- that is, flying to places I would never travel to otherwise in a million years because the fare-for-mileage balance is just right. Or flying somewhere and back with the same flight crew for the same reason.

So unless they start specifying the buying of tickets from United.com exclusively, I'm still in business.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6669 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
It's still a frequent flyer program, not a frequent spender program.

Its a loyalty program at the end, and not all customers are created equal simply because they rack up infinite number of low value miles.

Its nice to see airlines circling back and refocusing their programs on being able to differentiate better who is who amongst their client base.
Other industries have long figured out its good to equate spending with rewards.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Some people, like those who go through corporate travel agents, don't have the luxury of directing their tickets onto 016 stock.

Oh common. I hardly expect a US company to have their travel department issue tickets on Air Canada or something. Sure there might be exceptions, but if one travels UA they will ticket on UA.

Anyhow corporate travel is another world, as FF benefits are often part of the deal and not subject to all the normal earning rules anyhow.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Sure there might be exceptions, but if one travels UA they will ticket on UA.

We were talking about tickets with mixed carriers. If you fly to Europe on Air Canada and return on United, would you expect to be ticketed on AC or UA stock? I would expect it to be AC.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23087 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Its nice to see airlines circling back and refocusing their programs on being able to differentiate better who is who amongst their client base.
Other industries have long figured out its good to equate spending with rewards.

I agree with that, but the implementation (like DL's plan) seems to fly in the face of all of the talk about metal-neutral alliances. If I fly to Europe on LH and back on UA, I now really need to ticket both halves of that trip on 016 stock. It didn't used to matter as far as Mileage Plus was concerned.

Shouldn't UA be rewarding spending on flights on which UA gets the revenue (either through operating the flight or through ATI) regardless of the booking/ticketing channel? If I sleep in a $200 room at the Marriott tonight, Marriott doesn't much care if I bought it on marriott.com or called the hotel directly and booked; my rewards points are the same either way. That's not the same in the airline industry.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
We were talking about tickets with mixed carriers. If you fly to Europe on Air Canada and return on United, would you expect to be ticketed on AC or UA stock? I would expect it to be AC.

Suppose anything can happen, but plating has a commission aspect also, so if you have a UA corporate travel account, I would think they would try hard to continue ticketing on UA.

As a company if you are ticketing randomly across many airlines the revenue is not being accrued which can impact being able to meet required contractual revenue thresholds.

Frankly, I don't think this is a issue. A company with UA travel contract will ticket on UA to earn its own benefits, with the employees in return gaining theirs.
And again, I will mention, FF benefits are often part of corporate contract and not always subject to all the normal earning rules anyhow.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5630 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6597 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Its a loyalty program at the end, and not all customers are created equal simply because they rack up infinite number of low value miles.

But the thing is one of the key, critical elements of loyalty programs is to be future oriented. They should not just focus on those than buy and can afford higher fare buckets now, the idea is to grow your customer, get them hooked and locked into your airline when they are young and poor and just flying their buts of as cheaply as possible (for their jobs, for fun, whatever). So that as they grow in income and ability and care more about comfort an the other perks that an airlines offers, they will stick with that one carrier and give their big money to them.

Yes, you must care for your higher dollar customers. But loyalty programs are supposed to lock in those that are currently "lower value" and create loyalty into the future.

I am not saying what is being done is wrong or anything like that, but that these "cheap seats" people are very important to loyalty programs.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecv990coronado From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6554 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

$10000 for the top level seems incredibly low. This can't be much more then the cost of a business class ticket from the US to Asia or Europe plus on flight in the US. Hardly what I would call a top level frequent flyer.


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User currently onlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 601 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6515 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
You will earn Premier qualifying dollars (PQD) on most:
....
Economy Plus purchases

I spy a differentiator! The new DL program does not count spending for Economy Comfort seats. Perhaps they'll match? It's a bit easier to pay over $100 for Y+ on a TATL if I know that money will count toward earning status.



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25 AeroWesty : And again, I will mention that we were talking about a specific subsection of flyers, which I further qualified as to whom I believed it would apply
26 Post contains images LAXintl : Putting a spend requirement is future oriented. It provides incentive to buy up, not simply seek out deep discount fares, but into higher fare bucket
27 tugger : With my company, a top tier multi-billion dollar corporation, you are required to go with the lowest cost option for travel. In the last two years I
28 mercure1 : I think this is good idea for airlines. Make programs similar to hotels, or even supermarkets where spending component helps determine benefits/reward
29 LAXintl : In other words your company does not have major travel loyalty to any airline, it just seeks the cheapest fare on the open market. So at the end, suc
30 SIA747Megatop : $10,000? Is this in all classes of travel? At Singapore Airlines to gain access to the PPS Club one must spend S$25,000 exclusively in Business, First
31 RDH3E : Keep in mind this is to get into the highest level you can "buy" your way into. This doesn't include Global Services, which from my understanding you
32 UALFAson : As I said in the thread when DL introduced this, I'm surprised that airlines are choosing to implement a system like this now, and not back in the day
33 tugger : You are missing the point and that is not how people book. We all well know that people go to the lowest cost option almost all the time when it is t
34 Cubsrule : That issue is almost entirely fixable if the carrier so chooses. Plenty of companies have "bought" 500 mile AA upgrades by purchasing tickets for the
35 LAXintl : I'm not missing the point at all. One of the fundamental jobs of a loyalty program is to help push people along for the benefit of the company by pro
36 DesertFlyer : How are people getting Silver for less than $2500? I fly for work and pleasure, and barely hit Silver, but I definitely spend more than $2500 in a giv
37 cosyr : it says on the base fare. What is to stop them from saying $200 for the fare and $200 fuel surcharge, so you only get credit for half, not to mention
38 Post contains images AeroWesty : Say if in my example of the split AC/UA ticket above, it's worth $2,000 each way in a lightly discounted Economy class. That's 40% of the way PQD-wis
39 kgaiflyer : It's not the same thing, but I've purchased codeshare tickets -- all flights operated by UA but written on 037 stock. So I know such things are done.
40 MSPNWA : It's always humorous watching the legacies backtrack on their FF programs in an attempt to reign in years of excessive benefits that diluted the progr
41 kgaiflyer : Unless you really intend your FF program to be an exclusionary, private club only for those buying the highest-tier fares.
42 gaystudpilot : The big three US airlines -- AA, DL, and UA -- are chasing after building and maintaining a greater share of high margin, premium passengers (as are a
43 tugger : That is what GS and similar programs are for, they should not mix loyalty programs with these "high value customer" programs. And remember a lot of t
44 LAXintl : Cutting a ticket under someone elses stock or codeshare can mean as much as a 15% loss in revenue for UA. Only right to try to encourage all the mone
45 redzeppelin : I can easily see how somebody living in LAX or SFO and frequently flying cheap transcon routes where the VX/B6 competition keeps prices down could mi
46 UALWN : Traveling from Europe to the US on discounted Y fares. Next month I'll hit 50K miles for the year with 4 trips to the West Coast from BCN. My total s
47 Cubsrule : Is that true of ATI-immunized partners as well? If so, it would seem that UA has made a lot of false public statements.
48 AeroWesty : In a number of your posts over time, you've touted how metal neutral joint ventures work. If I were to fly LH to Europe today, I would receive the id
49 FlyPIJets : So if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly... FF progams are headed towards.. 1. Money spent directly with the airline for status This makes sense. Th
50 AJMIA : I believe elite minimum spend is here to stay and it is a good thing. In my opinion, the minimum spend requirement is more to justify the cost of the
51 LAXintl : No ATI JVs are different from a operating P&L point of view. I'm talking about a more traditional codeshare, or simply issuing a ticket by 3rd pa
52 Nimish : I actually read it differently. I read the rule as full PQD for all United operated flights (irrespective of ticket stock). The OR above is my interp
53 RDH3E : You only need 25,000 miles. I just booked a trip to BAH for ~$650 this winter because UA is having a fare sale. Under the current (outgoing) system,
54 gaystudpilot : I'm talking about obtaining elite level status -- the elite programs are a subset of the airlines' FF (loyalty) programs. And, FF programs are just o
55 blueflyer : I would love to know how many members United expect to go down one elite step once implemented. "Metal-neutrality" has always been a bit of a fantasy
56 JHwk : I am surprised; this comes closer to impacting me than I would expect. Wife and I have been 1K for years, and usually do one or two "mileage junkets"
57 brilondon : I agree. These FF programs should be tied to the amount of money one spends and not the number of miles that can be racked up. I would like to also s
58 blueflyer : Think of it as an extra challenge! What is the best way to earn x amount of miles at the lowest total cost while spending at least y amount of money
59 FlyPNS1 : This is already done. All the traditional network legacy carriers implement tight inventory controls for FF redemption...particularly for their premi
60 kgaiflyer : As one of the masses who does absolutely no international flying, I have a problem with spending my money and then being called a moocher for doing i
61 brilondon : Yes, I know that but I was speaking in hypotheticals. In practice I realize that there are inventory controls but I will give you a for instance. I t
62 frmrCapCadet : If the government inflated the money as much as airlines inflated FF miles we would need wheelbarrels to buy a loaf of bread. If they were honestly va
63 DL747400 : Purchased miles are considered "bonus miles" which do not count toward elite status, MQMs, EQMs, etc. It will be interesting to see whether the $$$ s
64 Cubsrule : That is true, but for a UA-operated ticket issued on LH stock, there is no payment necessary for the Mileage Plus miles, is there?
65 burnsie28 : But at the same time if you are one of those that is getting say $100 fares cross country or doing those low fare routes to build miles (always get a
66 AeroWesty : Yes, I understand that. The point was why do mileage runs to earn status in order to earn bonus miles (which brings the cost per redeemable mile down
67 tugger : Wow, this statement makes you appear very petty but I suspect it is more frustration than anything else. I can see you were somewhat inconvenienced b
68 Viscount724 : They still need the miles in addition to the spend.
69 dtwlax : So what about a route like LAX-AMS? DL does not fly the route. Even with a KLM ticket, I can currently earn MQM miles. Will I not be able to earn MQM
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