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Any Underserved Markets?  
User currently offlineAirStein3 From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 17 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 months 1 hour ago) and read 5294 times:

Hey Guys,

I was wondering if there are any underserved markets out there that you guys are aware of. Any kind of suggestion is much appreciated  

Thanks,

Adam

[Edited 2013-12-25 15:32:29]

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 months ago) and read 5125 times:

International long haul in the US: San Diego is probably the most underserved market. San Diego County is the second most populous in California, yet we didn't have any long haul flights a couple of years ago! Now only BA & JL serve SAN. I think we'll see more int'l long haul flights as the 787 & A350 become more popular, their superior short field performance and efficiency will make SAN a very attractive market.

User currently offlinedeltaSEAalsaka From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 months ago) and read 5077 times:

It is sorta far out there but both MCI and STL could use more service they both have flights to major hubs on mainline but all flights to most other outstations are on RJs. The only airline with a large presence at both is WN but if you have a Ryanair type airline it would be good competition.


There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people asking questions.
User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3492 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (12 months ago) and read 5055 times:

Yeah ! I don't know much about the US, but out of Saskatoon, SK. there should be a gap to YUL for example and airports other than Pearson in the GTA. On the other side of the Atlantic i think that there should be more connections intra-North Africa, going from Egypt to Morocco and in between.

[Edited 2013-12-25 16:40:25]

User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (12 months ago) and read 4982 times:

It really depends on who you ask! Everyone feels there airport deserves more service. Very subjective.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineWayfarer515 From Honduras, joined Dec 2013, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 months ago) and read 4978 times:

Name any country in Central America that isn't SAL and there you have plenty of underserved and if I may say poorly served markets as well.

You cannot imagine how people in Central America hate to make all of their flights to the USA via SAL, not that we have anything against them but it is just ludicrous sometimes to jump and wait 4 hours for what would normally be a direct flight.

Any airline that makes it possible to make direct flights from SJO, GUA, TGU, SAP, LCE and even RTB to destinations in the USA will find a real gold mine in there, especially if it is a LCC.

Although NK did not do so great initially on its flights from FLL-SAP I think they are much better now, many people even travel by land from TGU to SAP just to travel on cheap flights to FLL.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6789 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

GSO Greensboro is probably one of the most under served...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

OSL is still under served on longhaul

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 1):
International long haul in the US: San Diego is probably the most underserved market.

Getting another, and possibly longer runway at SAN is still a critical elelment to this one. Not sure how it will be done with CEQA and associated NIMBY actions.

In the instance of other airports nameingly SLC, their lack of gatespeace and a suitable FIS facility have hurt them over the past 2 decades.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineTPAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

I know I may be biased, but I believe TPA is undeserved. The region is the largest in the U.S. without a hub or focus city, which could be a result of it. The economy is improving in the tampa bay area, the second largest metro in Florida and I believe this undeserved status could be short lived. International traffic has been a downfall, and still is, but it is improving, with the ambitions of Lopano. TPA finally got a connection to a Caribbean/central american/south american hub (outside of U.S.) with CM, and so far from reports, they are exchanging on some round trips the 738 for the 737-700 due to higher demand, so increasing frequency from 4x weekly would not be a surprise in the near future. Edelweiss has increased their flying from the get go, originally scheduled as one weekly seasonally, to now being a year round, and starting this spring twice weekly, and hopefully continuing twice weekly in the winter. Flights to cuba have taken off drastically (up to 11x weekly this winter) although that is not typical travel service. BA has grown at TPA, and flies year round 777 to LGW daily, but TPA lacks a connecting hub in Europe, and FRA seems like a target. I love speculating, but I would be curious about BA switching to LHR on the 787, especially as the route has matured, and could capture international connections. Although it would not look too good when they reduce international seats, how about BA even going more than daily from LHR, or going LHR + LGW, or even adding MAN, something like 4x weekly, in addition to LHR.

As far as domestically, west coast from TPA is severely lacking. Daily route to LAX on DL, but that is it. No flights to SFO and SEA, and those have been pointed out as two of the largest routes without any service. LGA has been expanding recently from TPA although I'd expect more from a fairly decent business route. But I believe one of the biggest holes that could be tapped into is Canadian travel from TPA. St. Pete/Clearwater beaches are among the nicest, Busch Gardens is a treasure to be discovered by tourists and the cruise travel business is expanding, yet TPA only supports minor flying to YYZ year round, and the other seasonal routes are mainly once and twice weekly, and those are (YUL, YOW, and YHZ). YUL is by Brookings data, the third largest international market from TPA, yet it is flown by AC twice weekly seasonally. YOW is roughly the exact same case. G4 has mentioned flying to Canada from PIE and I wish them the best of luck if they do so. Also, PIE is seeing record numbers for passenger traffic, as they continue to expand their.

Things could change quickly, with WN rumored to release their first international schedule this upcoming month, and TPA has been rumored a candidate. With the integration of the WN buying of FL, a clearer picture of TPA's picture could appear whether or not it emerges as a focus city. TPA-MSP gained two more carriers this peak travel season winter-spring, and now has four, but this was previously as undeserved route given the connections between these two cities. TPA-BOS just shocks me how B6 manages to fly three daily for most of the year, and in peak season, fly 4-5 daily. I would expect much more and maybe competiton from DL or NK would awaken this in the future?

Other regions that are underserved: SAN, STL, MCI, SMF, PIT, CLE, MKE

I would have added FLL, but suddenly, it seems to be overserved with B6, NK, and now WN announcing major expansions. But SAN and TPA stick out, along with SMF, in terms of where the regions are heading. These northern and midwest regions seem all but expanding, so I don't believe an up and coming airline will be attracted to a region heading south.


User currently offlineDeltaXNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

SAT----huge city, 2nd largest city in Texas after Houston. However, it has a relatively small airport.

JAX----largest city in Florida, JAX is not much bigger than MSY though.

Others include IND, CMH, OMA, AUS, and SJC


User currently offlineTPAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 10):
JAX----largest city in Florida, JAX is not much bigger than MSY though

I was just thinking about JAX, although calling it the largest city in Florida is relatively deceiving of the overall population the airport serves in the region. It's population is so large because the city limit encompasses essentially the whole region compared to a place such as Tampa which has three cities tying into the region and airport, and suburbs outside of the city limit. But I do agree with the fact that it is underserved. I'm shocked that an east coast city in Florida such as it has such little service to NYC.


User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4677 times:

Quoting deltaSEAalsaka (Reply 2):
The only airline with a large presence at both is WN but if you have a Ryanair type airline it would be good competition.

Where's NK when you need it!


Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 3):
out of Saskatoon, SK. there should be a gap to YUL for example and airports other than Pearson in the GTA.

Any plans for WS to base some of their Dash 8s there?


Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 3):
On the other side of the Atlantic i think that there should be more connections intra-North Africa, going from Egypt to Morocco and in between.

Sounds like a perfect market for 3O, or FZ with multistop services between DXB and Morocco.


Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 5):
Any airline that makes it possible to make direct flights from SJO, GUA, TGU, SAP, LCE and even RTB to destinations in the USA will find a real gold mine in there, especially if it is a LCC.

NK already serves some of these markets, maybe the post-merger WN will expand there.


Quoting Mortyman (Reply 7):
OSL is still under served on longhaul

Don't worry, DY will take care of that!


Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 8):
Getting another, and possibly longer runway at SAN is still a critical elelment to this one. Not sure how it will be done with CEQA and associated NIMBY actions.

It's not gonna happen any time soon. SAN's best hope is the better short field performance of the 787 & A350 will change the status quo.


Quoting TPAfan (Reply 9):
I would have added FLL, but suddenly, it seems to be overserved with B6, NK, and now WN announcing major expansions.

The most surprising news out of FLL is DY serving OSL, CPH, ARN, and LGW from July 2014! I hope they'll add SAN as their 787 fleet grows.   


User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Quoting deltaSEAalsaka (Reply 2):
It is sorta far out there but both MCI and STL

MCI is not underserved... WN has so much capacity at MCI, largely due to the Wright Amendment and that causes lower fares, and too much capacity. Once this goes away, I think MCI will see more mainline flying from UA/AA/US and less flying from WN as they will no longer need MCI as a stop for their flights. DL already has a decent number of flights, many mainline, and I doubt that will change very much.

UA I think will bring mainline back to IAH and maybe EWR or IAD but probably not both. Likely a 50/50 mix of mainline to regional when you look at all departures.

AA/US once merged I think will reduce some RJ flying, but not eliminate it. I can see more mainline on MCI-ORD, and DFW, and perhaps PHL. DCA I doubt will see more service after the merger.

WN I see a reduction of 15-25 flights a day after the W.A. goes away in 2014, which would bring MCI station to a right size for them in terms of pricing and capacity control.

The wildcard in MCI is F9. Frontier, with all this change nonsense (yes it is needed) is really unpredictable. F9 has gone from almost 50 departures a day down to 4 a day. (daily flights only, they do have non-daily service to DCA occasionally) If F9 were to pull out of the market, I think you will see a better chance of a large up-guage at all carriers in MCI.

UA will have to change something just like DL did once they begin the retirement of the 50 seater fleet. When DL did that, MCI got many mainline flights, and UA could do the same if/when they have the spare frames.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

US - Venezuela - Its been stated a million times on here.
NYC-FOC

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 10):
SAT----huge city, 2nd largest city in Texas after Houston. However, it has a relatively small airport.

Its a distant 3rd in metro population from Dallas and Houston.

That being said it is the largest unserved domestic market from BOS. Probably a bit too small for a B6 A320 but they do fly the E190 on BOS-AUS at times so maybe that will be the right plane.

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 13):
WN I see a reduction of 15-25 flights a day after the W.A. goes away in 2014, which would bring MCI station to a right size for them in terms of pricing and capacity control.

I can see them trimming some DAL-MCI flights but that's about it. A route like BOS-MCI is right-sized for the market. Also, did a check of current through flights for BOS-DAL and its only via STL and HOU.


User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):
I can see them trimming some DAL-MCI flights but that's about it.

I see more than that. They will be able to route passengers back through DAL from other cities that currently stop in MCI. MCI is not properly set up for connection traffic. Yes, WN does have a bridge connecting their two gate areas, but too often people do not pay attention and leave security anyways. Until a new terminal is built in MCI I do not see WN expanding at all, and shrinking some flying to relieve gate space for there flights with better performance. I still think 15-25 flights will be cut.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6613 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

Quoting TPAfan (Reply 9):
I know I may be biased, but I believe TPA is undeserved.

Oh please.....


SRQ for sure

Utterly shocking what they see now vs 25-30 years ago.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 16):
SRQ for sure

Totally! Also, PBI has seen some reductions in recent years.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 15):
I see more than that. They will be able to route passengers back through DAL from other cities that currently stop in MCI. MCI is not properly set up for connection traffic. Yes, WN does have a bridge connecting their two gate areas, but too often people do not pay attention and leave security anyways. Until a new terminal is built in MCI I do not see WN expanding at all, and shrinking some flying to relieve gate space for there flights with better performance. I still think 15-25 flights will be cut.

Here's an important question - do you know the ratio of O+D to connecting passengers for WN at MCI?


User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 18):
Here's an important question - do you know the ratio of O+D to connecting passengers for WN at MCI?

I do not know for a fact the exact numbers, but I would assume at least 70% O/D maybe 80%. WN is the primary connecting carrier for MCI, UA and DL do connect some passengers at MCI as does AC but the numbers are minimal. UA connects less then 20 per day through MCI.

WN had to build a bridge connecting their two gate areas due to their connecting traffic, as passengers would have to leave security and re-clear security at MCI if they had to change gates to the other secure area.


User currently offlineTPAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 12):
The most surprising news out of FLL is DY serving OSL, CPH, ARN, and LGW from July 2014! I hope they'll add SAN as their 787 fleet grows.

Those aren't your stereotypical first long haul flights, but fitting it into the flight network from MIA, it doesn't look that out of place. I'm still shocked when looking at the fares from FLL to those places, especially OSL, with rock bottom fares of about 250 USD one way in some cases. If they expect to continue to order/lease more planes, and plan a U.S. expansion, then seeing SAN in the future wouldn't be shocking. But I don't know about their long haul plans outside of the U.S. For the U.S., I think LAS, MSP, and SEA are among the first on the radar. I would wish for TPA, but don't see it happening in any circumstance.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 19):
I do not know for a fact the exact numbers, but I would assume at least 70% O/D maybe 80%. WN is the primary connecting carrier for MCI, UA and DL do connect some passengers at MCI as does AC but the numbers are minimal. UA connects less then 20 per day through MCI.

Agree with you with WN being the only airline that really connects at MCI.

I just see the cuts at MCI being done to give space for DAL expansion rather than right size the MCI. STL should have the same thing happen.

What specific routes or frequencies would you think be cut besides DAL flights at MCI? MDW or BWI. I cannot see LAX BOS ABQ or any Florida flying being cut.

I live near BOS and had to go to MCI a couple years back when there was no nonstop service by WN so I've taken a bit of interest in this. I was surprised at how much of a ghost town of the airport was on a Sunday afternoon.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6789 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

PIT, TPA, nor MCI is under served... I'm sure they would love moredestinationsbut you can get dang near anywhere from those airports nonstop or 1 stop. And there are plenty of nonstop routes from those airports... There is very little 2-3 stop flights out of those airports...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 21):
What specific routes or frequencies would you think be cut besides DAL flights at MCI? MDW or BWI. I cannot see LAX BOS ABQ or any Florida flying being cut.
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 21):
I just see the cuts at MCI being done to give space for DAL expansion rather than right size the MCI. STL should have the same thing happen.

I see maybe 2 or 3 DAL cuts, also losing nonstop to some TX markets, like AUS. I also see maybe 1 or 2 flight cut to MDW. The biggest cuts I think will be in the p2p flying. like BNA or STL, and maybe PHX. IND seems like a losing deal too but I do not know what the margins are like on this route. SJC is another iffy route. LAX and BOS will be fine, as they are the only carrier with nonstop BOS, and LAX only has DL as competition. I see WN perhaps cutting these 15 flights not as solely losing nonstop service out of MCI but losing frequency. Also some of these flights may move to ICT or OMA.

BWI is very profitable for WN at MCI, and I only see status quo or an increase in flying this route.

MCI, for WN mainly is a bit over served. During peak travel times, it is right sized, but the average day at MCI there is too much capacity for WN. I hope I am wrong about the 15-25 flight loss for the sake of the WN employees, but I do not see them sustaining their current schedule much longer.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 12):
The most surprising news out of FLL is DY serving OSL, CPH, ARN, and LGW from July 2014!

Not surprising when you consider how huge the local market is. More people fly Miami-Scandinavia in one month than do San Diego-Scandinavia in one year. Miami-Gothenberg is a larger market than Tampa-Paris, Philadelpha-Zurich or San Diego-Rome. I think many were surprised that FLL was chosen over MIA, but given how DY has aggressive plans to expanding the market past just OSL/ARN/CPH, it makes sense. LGW is just the first of many.

I don't think one should take DY's entry into FLL as a sign it will explore secondary markets like SAN or TPA. It won't. It's business model relying heavily on local tourism traffic means it really only has three possible destinations left in the States - BOS, ORD and IAD.



a.
25 Giancavia : Palermo in Sicily, I think the only long haul flight is an A330 2 Times a week over the summer to New York. (Not even sure if it still running) They c
26 FWAERJ : My hometown airport, FWA, is well-served to most areas. Good examples include Western US via DFW (AA) and AZA (G4), G4 to SFB, PIE, and PGD in Florida
27 a380787 : My personal vote goes to NYC-YVR. Large ethnic market, and in winter it's only 2x daily (CX from JFK and AC from EWR - summer add UA+DL) And both sche
28 cle757 : CLE-Europe and CLE-SAN
29 Flytravel : Perhaps it should push for nonstop service to PHL. There is ILG-TPA, TTN-TPA and ACY-TPA, the reverse would be PHL-SRQ. SRQ has service to DCA and LG
30 adamh8297 : Underserved is a tough call. Here's 2011 numbers Total International Passengers (BOS only) - 3962454 from Massport.com Total International O+D (inlcu
31 Post contains images rosskin92 : I've been a lurker, but I created an account just to post here MKE. What annoys me here in Chicago is that they keep talking about that godawful and u
32 pvd757 : To no surprise, I'll vote for PVD. Top 40 MSA in the U.S. Yet only top 65 in enplanements due to leakage to BOS. PVD-ORD/RSW/PBI are underserved and a
33 brilondon : I would like to see more out of YXU for obvious reasons. A CMA of 500,000 people should have more than a flight to ORD. I think that a direct flight t
34 rosskin92 : If PVD marketed its self as an alternative to expanding BOS (an extremely touchy issue in Boston), it would have major success. Mainly because the Bo
35 avi8 : I really do think B6 could tap the market from BOS-Central America with 1-2x weekly flights. BOS-GUA is the biggest market to Central America if I'm n
36 aloges : Europe to South America It is often cheaper to connect in the US than to fly straight to a South American hub or destination. With TAM's upcoming alli
37 Viscount724 : What ethnic market are you referring to between NYC and YVR? "Ethnic" normally refers to immigrant communities and I'm not aware of large numbers of
38 bobnwa : Are you looking at land area or population?
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