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Changing Attitude On Window Shades?  
User currently offlinetgocean From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7182 times:

I recently completed a trip LAX-IAH-FRA (with return through IAD) on UA. With one exception, the flights were conducted in daylight. On each flight, the windowshades were down when passengers boarded, and stayed that way for the entire flight. I usually select a window seat (I love to look outside), but on most of these flights I was in either the “fishbowl” seat (the isolated middle seat in UA 767-300ER’s 2-1-2 first-class seating system) or in an aisle. Requests to raise the window shade were denied by anyone I asked. One passenger even said that it was “illegal” to have the windowshade up (rubbish). Nearly the whole airplane was blacked out in all of these flights. Little islands of light could occasionally be seen in coach, but none in First. Two questions: (1) When did flying become such a chore that nobody even wants to look out at the scenery, and (2) Doesn’t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons (i.e., to spot the not-in-flames side of the airplane to evacuate?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinehufftheweevil From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7138 times:

Window shades are typically down when you board during the summer because the cabin can get very hot otherwise, and it helps keep it cool. But I do find it rather odd that no one wanted to open them. As for "illegal"...I would have been laughing in their face.   

Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
Doesn’t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons (i.e., to spot the not-in-flames side of the airplane to evacuate?

Not that I'm aware of. Never heard a safety announcement that included this.



Huff
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7006 times:

Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
Doesn’t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons (i.e., to spot the not-in-flames side of the airplane to evacuate?

Some carriers' ops specs require exit row window shades to be up for takeoff and landing. There may be a few regionals that require all shades to be up for takeoff and landing (I feel like 9E may be one, but it's been a while since I've flown them), but they are very much the exception and not the rule.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineVCEflyboy From Canada, joined Jun 2014, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6957 times:

Very unusual and unsafe to have windowshades down during take off and landing.
In the event of an accident, passengers would be startled by the outside brightness upon leaving the aircraft and would take away precious seconds during the evacuation procedure.


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1202 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6936 times:
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Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
Requests to raise the window shade were denied by anyone I asked. One passenger even said that it was “illegal” to have the windowshade up (rubbish). Nearly the whole airplane was blacked out in all of these flights.

Sounds like the aircraft makers and airlines are starting to get everyone used to the concept of no windows on pax aircraft--cheaper to make, lighter aircraft weight eventually leading to windowless blended wing concepts. Soon they will have some wing tip fence cameras facing down which pax will be able to display on their monitor to simulate looking out an inexistent window!



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6936 times:

I've heard this announcement recently on my Chautauqua operated Delta RJ flight - raise window shades for landing. Of course, I also heard the pilot announce that we should turn our cell phones off because he was listening to our conversations. Your mileage may vary.


BOS || A:319,320,321, 332, 333, 346 || B:735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 772, 744: L1011, DC10
User currently offlinehufftheweevil From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6924 times:

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 3):
In the event of an accident, passengers would be startled by the outside brightness upon leaving the aircraft and would take away precious seconds during the evacuation procedure.

Really? That's your reasoning? As if the passengers have never seen the light of day in their lives? I think they'd be much more startled that they were in an accident, forget the light.



Huff
User currently offlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 2203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6876 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 4):
Sounds like the aircraft makers and airlines are starting to get everyone used to the concept of no windows on pax aircraft--cheaper to make, lighter aircraft weight eventually leading to windowless blended wing concepts. Soon they will have some wing tip fence cameras facing down which pax will be able to display on their monitor to simulate looking out an inexistent window!

Think about the bright side, every one can view outside, even those in the middle of a WB. It may even increase structural integrity and reduce maintenance cost. Oh, for aesthetics simulate windows on exterior painting.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25843 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 6):
Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 3):
In the event of an accident, passengers would be startled by the outside brightness upon leaving the aircraft and would take away precious seconds during the evacuation procedure.

Really? That's your reasoning? As if the passengers have never seen the light of day in their lives? I think they'd be much more startled that they were in an accident, forget the light.

It's similar to the reason why cabin lights are dimmed during takeoff and landing at night, to reduce the contrast between light and dark in the event of an accident and emergency evacuation. It takes a while for your eyes to adjust if the lighting suddenly goes from bright to dark, or vice versa.

Another major reason for leaving the blinds up is so you can see if there's fire on one side of the aircraft so you don't open the emergency exits on that side.


User currently offlineandy33 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6815 times:

Absolutely standard in Europe for window shades to be raised for takeoff and landing, except on Ryanair, which doesn't have window shades on its planes to begin with.

User currently offlinehufftheweevil From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6803 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
It takes a while for your eyes to adjust if the lighting suddenly goes from bright to dark, or vice versa.

That is true. But I still don't see the need for forcing the shades to be up. Again, never seen/heard it before, either.



Huff
User currently onlineVCEflyboy From Canada, joined Jun 2014, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6743 times:

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 6):
Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 3):
In the event of an accident, passengers would be startled by the outside brightness upon leaving the aircraft and would take away precious seconds during the evacuation procedure.

Really? That's your reasoning?

No, it is not my reasoning. It is a safety policy implemented by all major airlines based on a scientific fact. Visual focus is adjusted by pupil dilating and contracting according to the light. This adjustment requires a couple of seconds. If you multiply that for 100s passengers that have to be able to evacuate in under 90 seconds as mandates by law, it makes the difference between life and death.


User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Quoting andy33 (Reply 9):

BA don't require window blinds to be open unless immediately adjacent to an emergency exit row!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6465 times:

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 11):
It is a safety policy implemented by all major airlines based on a scientific fact. Visual focus is adjusted by pupil dilating and contracting according to the light.

This is true, but on a bright day, some daylight gets through the shades and the fueslage with the windows open is darker than outside, especially toward the middle. Is there some scientific evidence that the "adjustment time" is significantly different with shades open versus shut?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineVCEflyboy From Canada, joined Jun 2014, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 11):
It is a safety policy implemented by all major airlines based on a scientific fact. Visual focus is adjusted by pupil dilating and contracting according to the light.

This is true, but on a bright day, some daylight gets through the shades and the fueslage with the windows open is darker than outside, especially toward the middle. Is there some scientific evidence that the "adjustment time" is significantly different with shades open versus shut?

And if my grandma had wings, she'd be a 747.
Aviation safety rules are born out of past accident investigations that have identified weaknesses and potential hazards in planes and procedures. Not adapting your vision to the outside environment, wearing high heels, blocking the emergency exits, etc. all have been proven to delay evacuation procedures. We are talking about very rare events, but when they do happen you want to be as ready as you possibly can.


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

This is a silly debate. The FAA does not require window shades to be up for takeoff and landing, so most US airlines do not require this. However, I have been on many flights on non-US airlines where this is required, and where it is a standard part of the pre-takeoff/-landing safety announcements along with raising tray tables, putting seats upright, etc. It just depends on the airline and/or aviation authority's policy--end of story.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Best idea is nab a window on the side away from the sun. Works for me as I like to look out.

User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
Best idea is nab a window on the side away from the sun. Works for me as I like to look out.

Agreed--I always try to do the same. This is a useful site to help figure out which side the sun will be on: http://sunflight.net/



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Some carriers' ops specs require exit row window shades to be up for takeoff and landing. There may be a few regionals that require all shades to be up for takeoff and landing (I feel like 9E may be one, but it's been a while since I've flown them), but they are very much the exception and not the rule.

9E requires the shades in the exit row(s) and 1A to be open for takeoff and landing.

Quoting Coronado (Reply 4):
Sounds like the aircraft makers and airlines are starting to get everyone used to the concept of no windows on pax aircraft--cheaper to make, lighter aircraft weight eventually leading to windowless blended wing concepts. Soon they will have some wing tip fence cameras facing down which pax will be able to display on their monitor to simulate looking out an inexistent window!

I call B.S. on this one. hufftheweevil had it right in reply one when he said that the shades were lowered during boarding to keep the aircraft cool, which is very common in Summer ops. They remained lowered during flight because passengers probably didn't feel like opening them.



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlineLX2IAH From United States of America, joined Jul 2014, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

I guess the airlines will do anything to save a "dime." Maybe it saves $$ on electric plug in or fuel while waiting for the next flight. To me, it's depressing to walk down a dark aircraft while boarding.

I had heard from a friend that worked flights at HOU / IAH for TW he mentioned something like all TW a/c had to keep window shades open during takeoff & landing...had something to do with a/c being hijacked some time long ago and all the shades were down (when flt was in trouble) as demanded by the "bad guys". If I recall correctly...he said this way the ground crew etc. knew all was ok with the a/c as flight arrived & departed.

LX2IAH


User currently offlineiloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

I get highly irritated when the flight attendants ruthlessly and snottingly ask me to lower the window shades. I paid good money for that seat and I have the right to look out the window and enjoy the scenery. I don't know why the flight attendants have to be snots about it anyway. We pay their salaries so they should lose their attitudes and leave us aviation enthusiasts alone!

User currently offlinehufftheweevil From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

Quoting LX2IAH (Reply 19):
I guess the airlines will do anything to save a "dime." Maybe it saves $$ on electric plug in or fuel while waiting for the next flight. To me, it's depressing to walk down a dark aircraft while boarding.

Sure it saves money, but its done for the passengers too: in the summer, would you rather walk on to a bright, but hot and steamy aircraft or a cool, dimly lit aircraft? Most would prefer the later.

Quoting LX2IAH (Reply 19):
had something to do with a/c being hijacked some time long ago and all the shades were down (when flt was in trouble) as demanded by the "bad guys". If I recall correctly...he said this way the ground crew etc. knew all was ok with the a/c as flight arrived & departed.

I'll call B.S. on that one. Not saying this guy didn't tell you this...but it sounds to me that he wasn't the brightest one in the bunch.



Huff
User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

I usually leave my window shades open unless it is the side with the sun and it is 100% unbearable. If others are sleeping I will close it 50-60% but no more--I enjoy looking outside, even if it is just ocean. The only airline where I've been asked to lower the shades is on SQ, and even then when I explained I like to keep the shade raised the F/As let it go.


A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinecopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
Doesn%u2019t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons (i.e., to spot the not-in-flames side of the airplane to evacuate?

Apparently not a requirement--but it should be!!!

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 6):
Really? That's your reasoning? As if the passengers have never seen the light of day in their lives? I think they'd be much more startled that they were in an accident, forget the light.

See below

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 11):
No, it is not my reasoning. It is a safety policy implemented by all major airlines based on a scientific fact. Visual focus is adjusted by pupil dilating and contracting according to the light. This adjustment requires a couple of seconds. If you multiply that for 100s passengers that have to be able to evacuate in under 90 seconds as mandates by law, it makes the difference between life and death.

I was going to explain why they should be open, but I couldn't do a better job than you did.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
This is true, but on a bright day, some daylight gets through the shades and the fueslage with the windows open is darker than outside, especially toward the middle. Is there some scientific evidence that the "adjustment time" is significantly different with shades open versus shut?

Yes, there is. Similar to being in a fairly dark room, but after having been there and adjusting to the low light level, you can see somewhat. NOw, shine a bright light in your eyes for 2 or 3 seconds, then see if you can still see anything.

Another significant reason why it should be a regulation to have the shades open is to aid the first responders in event of an accident. It wastes valuable time to spend several minutes cutting into the fuselage only to find nothing but empty seats, at the expense of NOT being able to see where the victims actually are.


User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5275 times:

I too have noticed a greater occurrence of lowering them in flight during day. Have taken a few trips from Europe to LAX and always sit on window because the views are spectacular and last 2 times an hour into the flight everyone has their window shades down. On the last flight woman behind me asked me to close mine (I was enjoying the view!). Then it appears as though people are trying to sleep. Why? We left London at 330pm and now you are going to sleep as much as you can for the next 11 hours? You wouldn't do that had you were on the ground in London. Isn't the point on the westbound to stay awake and then go to bed when you arrive to minimize the jet lag? So strange, and, so frustrating for someone like me who gets the window seat to look out!

BTW on same flights 14 years ago this never happened. So indeed I wonder what original poster asks if this is some new trend esp. on these longer flights.


User currently offlineskiaplg From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2012, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

The bright sun can make it difficult to see your PTV (mostly) but on occasion a book. In a recent flight in J, in order to read comfortably I closed the shade closest to myself and left the other two open. When watching a movie on the tablet provided, keeping the shade closed meant I was able to see the screen!

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 24):
Isn't the point on the westbound to stay awake and then go to bed when you arrive to minimize the jet lag?

Usually, you would think, but there are occasions when I would want to take a 1-2 hour nap. I had flight when I had to leave at 6am to drive the 2.5 hours to the airport to catch a 10:30am flight GMT, and knew that I had a 6 hour layover in PHL and would only get to my destination around 11pm EST - 4am GMT. I was glad to nap a little bit since I had woken up early and was going to bed late.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 17):
Agreed--I always try to do the same. This is a useful site to help figure out which side the sun will be on: http://sunflight.net/

That seems like a good site - I never thought of looking up what side the sun would be on before my flight!


User currently offlineLX2IAH From United States of America, joined Jul 2014, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5380 times:

Correcting my reply 19 - (and replying to 21)

This (TWA and the window shades issue) all stemmed from TW843 JFK-SFO, a flight that crashed (July 30, 1992) after an aborted takeoff from JFK. After this incident, TWA began insisting on raised window shades at take off and landing.

In fact, The window shades up rule was part of TWA's training dating back to 1972.

The window shade "up" is a part of a long process to prepare the cabin for sudden (unexpected) emergencies. Why is that? Cabin crew have only 90 seconds to evacuate all passengers in case of emergencies. The process of evacuation itself should not take more than 90 seconds regardless of the size of the aircraft or the number of passengers. So to make the evacuation possible in 90 seconds cabin crew and other airlines staff will prepare every flight in advance to make this possible. One example is the emergency exits, only healthy adults are allowed to occupy these seats, they are also required to read the safety card for emergency exits to make them prepared in case of emergencies to help the cabin crew. They are called ABPs (Able-Bodied-Persons). This is just one example.

Window shades "up" is a small part of a long preparation process. Passengers are asked to open window shades before take offs and landings because these are considered to be critical times in aviation. Many things can go wrong during these times (most accidents do happen during take offs or landings), so people are asked to open window shades along with other things (seats in upright position, people seated and buckled, etc.) to make everything prepared as if the plane were in emergency. In case something goes wrong (God forbid) things will be ready in advance so cabin crew can easily evacuate people in the short period of 90 seconds.

Specific reasons behind the window shade opening include:

Passengers are curious, hence they are perfect extra eyes to see if something goes wrong out there. Usually passengers report stuff to the cabin crews right away.

In case of sudden emergencies, every second counts. Therefore if shades are up / open, crew can easily see outside conditions to help them in planning the evacuation (which doors to use for evacuation, etc.).

In case of emergency (which is more likely during take offs and landings) people should be prepared just in case. So during daytime, opening window shades and putting cabin lights to full makes the eyes used to sunlight so if something goes wrong and passengers need to be evacuated there will not be sudden change in light contrast which might lead to temporary blurred vision. Same thing on night flights, window shades are open and cabin lights are dimmed.
It helps ground emergency personnel outside to see the inside of the cabin.

These rules might be different from one airline to another, but in general, almost all airlines require their crews to make sure of the window shades up / open during take offs and landings. Most airlines also add it in the safety preparation announcements prior to take offs and landings.

LX2IAH


User currently offlineCaryjack From United States of America, joined May 2007, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):

Best idea is nab a window on the side away from the sun. Works for me as I like to look out.
Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 17):
Agreed--I always try to do the same. This is a useful site to help figure out which side the sun will be on: http://sunflight.net/

Thanks guys....I try to fly POSH from SEA east bound but it hasn't yet been an issue west bound, maybe SOPH??   . Not sure how to scramble it for the down south trips so I'll try the site.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 18):
Quoting Coronado (Reply 4):
Sounds like the aircraft makers and airlines are starting to get everyone used to the concept of no windows on pax aircraft--cheaper to make, lighter aircraft weight eventually leading to windowless blended wing concepts. Soon they will have some wing tip fence cameras facing down which pax will be able to display on their monitor to simulate looking out an inexistent window!

I call B.S. on this one.

It's a joke. Here       take 2 in the morning.
Thanks,
Cary


User currently offlinea36001 From Australia, joined Sep 2012, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

On all the hundreds of domestic flights I have taken throughout Australia, I can say at least 95% of the time the crew have said in their safety briefing the window shades are required to be raised for take off and landing, and the lights will be dimmed usually on night flights. And I absolutely think that all passengers should be able to be aware of what is going on outside the cabin. Especially in the event you may need to evacuate. To me taking off with the shades down would be like walking round with a paper bag over my head, meaning I have no idea of my suroundings.

As for the window shades being down while in CRZ, I think common sense should prevail, a strange concept I know. If your sitting on the sunny side it should not be that hard to think it might be a little uncomfortable for the other people around you and show a little common courtesy, an even stranger concept for some.

This is one area the 787 wins in my book. You can truly have your cake and eat it.  


User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2774 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Exactly the reason why I'm happy with the new 787 window system.   


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineElevated From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

The annual Airliners.net window-shade debate of Summer 2014. It's that time of the year!

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 15):

This is a silly debate. The FAA does not require window shades to be up for takeoff and landing, so most US airlines do not require this. However, I have been on many flights on non-US airlines where this is required, and where it is a standard part of the pre-takeoff/-landing safety announcements along with raising tray tables, putting seats upright, etc. It just depends on the airline and/or aviation authority's policy--end of story.

Thank you. Finally someone posts real information in this thread. It's pure Company Policy here in the States. It really makes the plane much cooler in the summer when doing turns and sits in-between flights. Plain and simple. People love to moan and complain. If you don't want it closed, open it. First World problems.

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 20):

I get highly irritated when the flight attendants ruthlessly and snottingly ask me to lower the window shades. I paid good money for that seat and I have the right to look out the window and enjoy the scenery. I don't know why the flight attendants have to be snots about it anyway. We pay their salaries so they should lose their attitudes and leave us aviation enthusiasts alone!


It sounds like you're the snotty ("snottingly isn't a world by-the-way) one here and that's the real underlying issue. "Ruthlessly ask you," dramatic much? I am sure it was a simple request if you could shut it for whatever reason. I am sure Flight Attendants are searching you out specifically on the manifest because you 'paid good money." You know what? Money doesn't buy you class, nor manners and your post clearly illustrates that. We deal with people like you all day and we shiver at the thought of it. It's always the people who "paid a lot" that have to make a statement to us on the plane for trivial things. Your halo doesn't show you're an "aviation enthusiast" and if a true one at heart; would be respectful of Flight Attendants and their primary responsibilities. Who is taking your "rights" away to look at the window? Yikes. I guess we take your freedom away also because you're required to wear a seatbelt and check for compliance? Such a military state we live in...I know.

You're likely that one guy who is the only one with the window shade open and everyone else around you is sleeping or watching a movie. A simple reply of "no" is more than enough. Why hostility towards Flight Attendants? That's like when we politely ask if they would like a beverage and we get glared at and ignored or the request barked at to us. It's amazing sometimes how we are treated (lack there of) when we will gladly serve you and grant your request. Honestly.

You sound like quite the charmer and entitled flyer with your attitude towards Crew. Your last sentence sums it up nicely about how we get paid. Thanks for the friendly 'reminder.' We are constantly guessing in the back galley where our salaries come from since we only know how to pour Coke/Pepsi, right?

Lastly, if you ignore everything else I say; remember this: You pay our salaries to save your life in the event of an emergency first and foremost. Service comes a close second.



P.S. I'd love to serve you my warm nuts fresh out of the oven, hand you a hot towel I warmed and fluff your pillow in your lay-flat suite in Y class. Happy flying.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4743 posts, RR: 18
Reply 31, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
I recently completed a trip LAX-IAH-FRA (with return through IAD) on UA. With one exception, the flights were conducted in daylight. On each flight, the windowshades were down when passengers boarded, and stayed that way for the entire flight. I usually select a window seat (I love to look outside), but on most of these flights I was in either the “fishbowl” seat (the isolated middle seat in UA 767-300ER’s 2-1-2 first-class seating system) or in an aisle. Requests to raise the window shade were denied by anyone I asked. One passenger even said that it was “illegal” to have the windowshade up (rubbish). Nearly the whole airplane was blacked out in all of these flights. Little islands of light could occasionally be seen in coach, but none in First. Two questions: (1) When did flying become such a chore that nobody even wants to look out at the scenery, and (2) Doesn’t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons (i.e., to spot the not-in-flames side of the airplane to evacuate?

That passenger was an idiot.



Speaking as an old f*rt my perspective is a little different. I think that most of today's younger generation don't care about seeing the real world and would much prefer to have the shades drawn and their head buried in a video game or movie.


Look at all the threads on this forum with people whining about lack of PTV or less than 1000 channels of the same.



Times have changed !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 32, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 27):

It's generally pretty easy on east/westbound US domestic flights--the sun will almost always be to the south of the aircraft. However, there are exceptions, which is where that site comes in handy. For example, on an early morning eastbound flight in summer, you might find the sun directly in your eyes on the left side of the plane. Likewise, on late afternoon westbound transatlantic flights you can have the setting sun on the right for the much of the second half of the flight.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1391 posts, RR: 3
Reply 33, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3104 times:

Quoting Elevated (Reply 30):

I'm not going to argue with your post line by line, but as someone who did your job once upon a time, I'll tell you this...

Get out... You're done.

As passengers, we are Not going to get any less demanding or less conscious of what flying costs us, especially when we do it frequently. If that's not something you can handle, this isn't for you. Hostility begets hostility and if this is really how you feel, I promise you will never be happy here.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3595 posts, RR: 6
Reply 34, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 11):
No, it is not my reasoning. It is a safety policy implemented by all major airlines based on a scientific fact.

I believe it was a TWA policy to have shades up for takeoff and landing. I have never worked for an airline that required it.

As for shades down for sun and cabin temperature, at my airline this is a flight attendant specific thing. As a pilot, I find it annoying. No one wants to walk into a dark tube for boarding. Many FAs take it upon themselves to request this. It is not mandated and 95% of the time, is not done.

That's just my airline.


User currently offlineN776AU From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 768 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1165 times:

People who have a window seat and immediately put the shade down should be put on the no fly list.


Careful, Doors Are Closing And Will Not Reopen. Please Wait For The Next Train
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 996 times:

The 787 is an amazing plane to fly at night but i hate it when the sun is hitting your side of the plane directly. Its like sitting next to a heat lamp. That plane needs some window shades! Major design flaw IMHO

User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4319 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 858 times:
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Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
Doesn’t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons

When I fly 3M (FLL, JAX, and TPA to both EYW and the Bahamas) we're specifically told to keep the window shades up.

The only time I remember being ordered to put them down was immediately after 9/11 while landing at DCA.


User currently offlineArcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 855 times:
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I believe Republic requires them to be open on T/O and landing.

It makes me laugh when people say there is nothing to see. I flew PHL to
LAX yesterday and it was (and always is) fascinating to look out at the
scenery going by. There were huge thunderclouds over the New Mexico
desert and they were higher than we were (36,000').
I flew in the UA 787 and I don't like the dimming windows. Much prefer
the shades.
Also, agree about the sunny side of the plane, so to speak. SFO to HKG
in January the sun was too bright,even for me.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 737 times:

Some people have said flight attendants prefer the window shades stay closed because it encourages passengers to sleep....and passengers who are asleep will not be requesting anything from inflight personnel.

When flight attendants ask that window shades be lowered, I've always lowered mine 2/3 of the way down if there is anything interesting to see below the aircraft, and I've never had difficulties with anyone.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 707 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 34):
As for shades down for sun and cabin temperature, at my airline this is a flight attendant specific thing. As a pilot, I find it annoying. No one wants to walk into a dark tube for boarding. Many FAs take it upon themselves to request this. It is not mandated and 95% of the time, is not done.

As a passenger I agree, although there are times when it makes sense. I've mainly seen it at very hot places (e.g., DFW, PHX and PSP in summer) on aircraft with less effective air conditioning systems (e.g., MD-80s and especially the Fokker 100 "Dutch Ovens" when AA had them) and I think it does help keep the cabin comfortable before the engines are started.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 39):
When flight attendants ask that window shades be lowered, I've always lowered mine 2/3 of the way down if there is anything interesting to see below the aircraft, and I've never had difficulties with anyone.

I agree--this has always been my approach, and it seems to be a reasonable and courteous balance between keeping things dark for those around me while still being able to enjoy the view.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineCaptCosslett From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2010, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 641 times:
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The last I flew with Jet2.com, I noticed that the shades were missing!! maybe they think they can save money on the weight savings having the window shades removed?

User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3294 posts, RR: 8
Reply 42, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 538 times:

Quoting tgocean (Thread starter):
Doesn’t the FAA require windowshades to be open at landing and takeoff for safety reasons (i.e., to spot the not-in-flames side of the airplane to evacuate?

I know DL asks to keep the exit row window shades open during ground movement and on final approach..

My most recent flight was on an MD-90 which had a faulty AC, so while on engine power or APU it was OK, but during the transition from one power source to the other, the AC shuts off and takes a while to restart...needless to say we were asked to keep our window shades down as soon as we started taxiing to the gate and while waiting to leave the gate at the origin airport.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1681 posts, RR: 9
Reply 43, posted (4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 528 times:
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I remember that on HNL to mainland flights on Hawaiian, right after takeoff, on the welcome video, they told passengers to pull down their window shades. I really wanted to see Molokai, as the previous day I had gone down to the leper colony on a mule. But they wanted the shades down before we were even over Molokai. Also, I was traveling on Hawaiian one time with my brother, who is mentally retarded. He won't watch a movie and he can't read a book. But he loves to look out the window. But the flight attendant insisted that he keep the shade down. I don't know if Hawaiian still uses this welcome video or not. But they did on the DC-10s.

Bob Bradley



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
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