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Routes That Are Overserviced  
User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 428 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5327 times:


With new airlines starting up, and existing airlines increasing frequencies and serving new destinations, do you think that certain routes are overserviced.
Personally I don;t think that new services into Sydney will be all that profitable. You have at least 15 daily departures to Europe, so there must be a lot of empty seats.

Some domestic routes are now operating 10 times per day for just 1 airline, while their competitors have the same amount of flights to the same destination. Is this sustainable?

What are routes that are over served?

And what are routes that are underserved.

I think BD and BA could add at least another 2 services each per day to the LHR EDI route.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5299 times:

Routes that are overserved?
Definitly EDI-LHR  Laugh out loud
EDI-BHX as well perhaps



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5198 times:

Many euro routes, and in my opinion, NYC-South Florida.

User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5191 times:

The Warsaw-London route is pretty crowded.
LO and BA 3 times a day each - LHR
Air Polonia, SkyEurope - STN
EasyJet, WizzAir - LTN.

That's a total of 10 flights a day (was 13 a day at one point).
And already Air Polonia has gone bankrupt.






How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

DAB to anywhere besides ATL or EWR

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5047 times:

Any route ex-IAD where DH is present...


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

Overserved:JFK-LHR, for instance (in general all New York-London services)

On the Domestic issue, another route overserved is MAD-BCN


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

Anxebla:

I find that hard to believe. Got any info on load factors, or is it random speculation?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offline3w From Ireland, joined Sep 2004, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4768 times:

from what i hear rom-mil with AZ is just tad over served

User currently offlineMulder From New Zealand, joined Sep 2004, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Over the Tasman sea apparently. Some 14 airlines service the rather small market.

User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

New York area airports to Fort Lauderdale (Going back to the 1960s this has been a route that is heavily traveled but too many airlines have started service and not fared well and had to pull back through the years)
Frankfurt to Chicago and Washington (because of the Star Alliance there are more flights on these routes than from JFK to FRA)



User currently offlineARCJET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

DALLAS-HOUSTON, do we need a flight every 15 minutes?

User currently offlinePSAelectra From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4149 times:

My vote is Beijing - Shanghai. Approx 35 PEK-SHA and 10 PEK-PVG R/T's per day. Source: Chinese Air Carriers Timetable for Fall/04.

User currently offlineCjuniel From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 146 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Regarding the Frankfurt/IAD and ORD flights, there is more capacity on these routes than JFK/FRA because they are both United hubs. United doesnt operate a hub at JFK and not all of these passengers are originating in the Washington and Chicago areas.

User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

I disagree with New York to South Florida. This is a HUGE market and I know a couple of people who fly this route bi-weekly. There may be several million flights going back and forth on this route daily, but the flights fill up very well.

I think that the most overserved route in the U.S is NYC-WAS. Do we really need Shuttle service on two airlines from LGA, followed by Shuttle service from FlyI at JFK and EWR? Not to mention CO's service from EWR...am I missing any other airline that serves this route?

The most underserved is BOS-SEA. Two huge cities on the coasts of the U.S that hardly have non-stop service (AA is pulling this route, giving AS a monopoly if I'm not mistakened).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

NYC to LA area
NY to LAS
and how coulod anybody ever forget the ISP-BOS market(NOT BEING SERVED)
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

How could you forget taipei to Hong kong, more than 50 flights per day.


Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Speaking of Dallas-Houston

DAL-HOU
29 daily flights on WN
DAL-IAH
6 daily flights on WN
9 daily flights on COex
DFW-IAH
11 daily flights on AA
1 daily flight on DL
10 daily flights on CO
DFW-HOU
3 daily flights on DL
9 daily flights on AA

For a grand total of 78 flights per day between dallas and houston



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

How could you forget taipei to Hong kong, more than 50 flights per day.

This is because there are no flights between the rest of mainland China and Taiwan. If flights between Taiwan and the Mainland become a reality, I expect that number (50) to drop like a rock. People use Hong Kong to connect between China and Taiwan.


User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

"Personally I don;t think that new services into Sydney will be all that profitable. You have at least 15 daily departures to Europe, so there must be a lot of empty seats."


The trouble is the intl market on certain routes is seasonal eg. in and out of Sydney.

In December all flights UK/USA to SYD are fully booked several months out but not SYD to UK, whilst in January its the other way around.

This was why QF pulled out of PER-PAR, it could not get additional slots and pulled the fleet out. It put them onto PER-LHR. QF has increased total capacity to Europe by 12% and loads have increased by more than that, so there is demand.

Admittedly loads to from UK is quite soft around February-April and October-November, but there are some great deals.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3504 times:

For a grand total of 78 flights per day between dallas and houston

Most of those flights ~40% (i.e. WN) are flown "poor-man's widebody" style with small aircraft taking off and landing one after the other. These flights are filled and are profitable as DAL-HOU has a strong O/D market and there is frequent need to be in both Dallas and Houston on the same day. I've flown this route maybe 4 times this year... always filled at peak hours.


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

BKK-SIN is served by 13 airlines, making it world's most 'crowded' sector in terms of competition.

1. Singapore Airlines
2. Thai Airways
3. Thai Air Asia
4. Tiger Airways
5. Valuair
6. Cathay Pacific
7. Garuda Indonesia
8. Turkish Airlines
9. Biman Bangladesh
10. Indian Airlines
11. Finnair
12. Swiss
13. SAS


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Connections probably have a lot to do with Houston-Dallas. There are over 5000 daily seats on the market which means 1 out of every 1000 residents in Houston would need to fly the route every single day. Since both cities are connection heavy hubs, it fills the flights, but the cities alone do not warrent the service.

Another example in the winter is SEA-ANC which has 17 daily flights, which is a lot more then O/D represents. It is mostly because AS funnels almost all of the O/D from Alaska through SEA.

The Tasman flights on the other hand are different since so many carriers fly the route and it is mostly O/D. New Zealand and Australia have their ties, but when both major carriers for the two countries in addition to EK widebody service among others serve the route, it is overkill that just drops the fares.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineF9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 703 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

DEN-ATL is currently served by UA, DL, F9, and FL. DEN-PHX and DEN-LAS are served by HP, UA, and F9. I would also say the JFK/LGA/EWR-FLL/MIA route sees a lot of traffic.

F9Fan



User currently offlineLrgt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

NY Area-West Coast
NY Area-London
PHL-BOS (and PHL-PVD/MHT)
PHL-West Coast
Come to think of it...**ALL TRANSCON'S**

...NY to FL is not over-served since that is where everyone from NY goes!



Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
25 Marambio : I believe AEP-MVD is overserved. PU 4x daily AR 2x daily (+1x daily EZE-MVD) WK 1x daily Total: 7 daily flights...for a 40-minute flight. Aerovip also
26 Ramerinianair : I forgot to post PHX-LAS over 10 flights there on WN alone. I think most of the LUV-HOU traffic are people who like to travel WN who want to travel ou
27 PPVRA : SDU-CGH 54 daily flights!!! and it takes less than 1 hour! (737, A320 series and F100s) You literaly get to choose the minute you want to fly on... If
28 777ER : AKL-SYD is the biggest over-serviced trans-tasman route, followed by BNE then MEL.
29 AAplatnumflier : LAX-JFK has to be the winner!!
30 FlewGSW : Before deregulation, it was between SFO and LAX. It use to be a case study. You had United, PSA, Air California, Western, Delta, TWA, Pan Am, Hughes A
31 N1120a : >DALLAS-HOUSTON, do we need a flight every 15 minutes?LAX-JFK has to be the winner!!
32 ZKSUJ : AKL-SYD/BNE. I can understand that NZ and QF serve it. But what is with the other 12 carriers, some without even a daily flight.
33 Post contains images Hardiwv : SDU-CGH 54 daily flights!!! and it takes less than 1 hour! (737, A320 series and F100s) You literaly get to choose the minute you want to fly on... If
34 NZblue : Just to support FlewGSW's point regarding service between Los Angeles (LAX, BUR, ONT, SNA, LGB) and San Francisco (SFO, OAK, SJC), I looked on our CRS
35 BA380 : Most of the above are just random guesses - in fact mostly the lists seem to simply list routes with a lot of capacity on. The question was which are
36 A319114 : A route can't really be overserved, at least not for a long time. That wouldn't make any sense, businesswise...
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