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The Weakest Link In Each Alliance  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

Which airlines are the weakest link in each of the three major alliances? (or the "black sheep" from the alliance):

Star: SK, UA or RG?
Sky: AZ or DL?
OneWorld: IB or EI?

And the strongest link? (the airline that sets the pace, and keeps the standard of the alliance!):

Star: LH, SQ or UA?
Sky: AF-KL or CO?
OneWorld: BA, AA or CX?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUaalltheway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Weakest:
Star: Varig
Sky: Delta
OneWorld: Iberia

Strongest:
Sky: Lufthansa
Sky: AirFrance/KLM
OneWorld: British Airways


User currently offlineZonky From New Zealand, joined Nov 2004, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Sky: Lufthansa

presume you mean Star, but LH not Singapore? That's an odd choice....


User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

in the matter of money health

weak:

Star: US, UA, AC, RG
Sky: AZ
One: IB

strong

Star: SQ
Sky:AF/KLM
One: BA/ CX



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4341 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Hi Hardi
difficult question, there's no straight answer.
At Star, United is definitely a key member without whom they wouldn't be what they are. Their possible bankruptcy makes it a serious threat though. SK and RG are also lossmaking but that isn't a nuisance or a danger that much for the alliance. Maybe US (big, halfhearted recent member, almost bankrupt) is more a weakest link.
SQ seems to sort of have a half hearted position in Star so I certainly wouldn't count them the strongest link, rather LH.

At Sky, AF (KL) and DL are certainly the engine of Sky. DL isn't the weakest link as a true founding member, the same position as UA. I might think as Korean as it is located too isolatedly to be a good Europe-Asia/Pacific hub and also with its earlier safety issues no comparison to the strong Asian airlines at the other alliances.

At OneWorld, all airlines including IB and EI and unmentioned LAN and Finnair are doing fine lately so it's ironic the alliance as a whole is in the shadow of the other two, they certainly need more synergy and some major names (like JAL or Emirates) joining to gain back momentum. I see BA-AA as the mainstray although their cooperation is faulty.
Cheers, Servaas



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineUAalltheway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

Sorry, I meant Star and SQ. I was reading a LH news article the same time I posted hahaha. And the site is being a butt and won't let me edit my post. oh well..

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):
Maybe US (big, halfhearted recent member, almost bankrupt) is more a weakest link.

Agree with you. UA is a vital link to the world's most important market: the US. RG is fundamental in South America, and so is SK's link to North Europe. US Airways is, indeed, the weakest link.

However, I still would select LH over SQ as the strongest link.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):
At Sky, AF (KL) and DL are certainly the engine of Sky

Agree with you again.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):
At OneWorld, all airlines including IB and EI and unmentioned LAN and Finnair are doing fine lately so it's ironic the alliance as a whole is in the shadow of the other two, they certainly need more synergy and some major names (like JAL or Emirates) joining to gain back momentum.

Totally correct. In OW are airlines have high quality standards and are in good financial shape. However, there have problems in terms of synergies and market coverage. They need to expand with some big names such as EK and JAL. [TAM is also about to join OW this year].

Rgs,


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2882 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Which airlines are the weakest link in each of the three major alliances? (or the "black sheep" from the alliance):

Star: SK, UA or RG?
Sky: AZ or DL?
OneWorld: IB or EI?

In terms of what?

RG/UA/IB/DL are not weak links given the size of the market they serve. All of these airlines are key to their respective alliances and that does not constitute "weak links" but rather "important" and "strategic links."

If you mean financially, and a "danger" for the alliances if these carriers go bankrupt, then ok, I agree.

Cheers,
PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

OW - EI definitely. Also CX for being completely indifferent to the whole concept of "seamless service"

*A - SQ - ditto.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Weak:

Star: US, they are the money looser whos network does not benefit the alliance that much....
Sky: AZ, they just keep loosing money and their operation is a disaster.
OW: EI, they try to be an LCC and this is of no help to the suposedly "premium" alliance.

Strong:

Star: SQ and LH. Both have strong networks and lots of money.
Sky: AF/KL. They are the healthiest member right now and have the strongest network after DL.
OW: BA. QF and CX are also good but BA´s coverage is unbelievable.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

RCS763AV:

I agree with your points. I would only add that AA is also a strong link in OW, probalbly on par with BA, QF and CX. No doubt that although OW has strong members, it fails to have synergies and still has important market gaps.

The fact that OW has as its member EI could also indicate that in the future some LCCs will join alliances. E.g. rumours that GOL was invited to joing Sky. Could this be possible without damanging the image of the alliance?

Rgs,


User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

For One World, surely EI must be the weakest -- no short-haul business class, horrible looking cheapo new livery. I understand that it may make sense for them, but it devalues the One World brand.


cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

Quoting BA380 (Reply 11):
For One World, surely EI must be the weakest -- no short-haul business class, horrible looking cheapo new livery. I understand that it may make sense for them, but it devalues the One World brand.

More than that, EI is the weakest link in terms of network. Apart from Ireland, what routes/connections does it give oneworld that BA couldn't??

For Star it could well be US at present - what additional benefits does it give to the alliance that UA doesn't already in terms of market, etc. ??

For Sky it is probably AZ at the moment, unless it can start operating seamlessly with its partners. again apart form the Italian market (which is admittedly big) what does it offer other passengers that AF can't ?

[Edited 2005-05-18 12:43:51]


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

true. EI adds very little. IB is a big advantage for One World in S American operations and across southern Europe. So it must be EI.


cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineDesiguy2447 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

The weakest
Sky: AZ
Star: US
One: IB


Strongest

Sky: Airfrance/KLM
Star: Lufthanasa
One: British Airways


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting BA380 (Reply 11):
For One World, surely EI must be the weakest -- no short-haul business class, horrible looking cheapo new livery. I understand that it may make sense for them, but it devalues the One World brand.

WHAT CHEAPO NEW LIVERY!!!!! it's great and if your talking about the dot com livery it was not new but just to advertise the website, anyway it gone now!

Quoting BA380 (Reply 11):


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 14):
The weakest
Sky: AZ
Star: US
One: IB


Strongest

Sky: Airfrance/KLM
Star: Lufthanasa
One: British Airways

Agree with the above selection.


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

My opinion

One World
weakest: Finair - seems a bit too isolated and not big enough to be important the alliance. Really how many people need to fly to/through HEL?
stronest: BA best network between US and europe, and much of Africa and Asia for westerners.

SkyTeam
weakest: Czech Air, again too small to be important and vital to the alliance. Many of their routes are already covered by KLM and AF, as well AZ.
strongest: KLM good network coverage with NW and AF and strong network in europe, good hub, and good coverage in middle east and asia. codeshares with NW and AF give even better north american coverage and great connections for europe.

Star
can't say, have only flown on United.



LH 442
User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1692 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

If we're talking financially it would be IMHO:

Star - weakest US/UA; strongest SQ/LH
OneWorld - weakest EI; strongest CX
Skyteam - weakest AZ; strongest AF-KL



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 17):
My opinion

One World
weakest: Finair - seems a bit too isolated and not big enough to be important the alliance. Really how many people need to fly to/through HEL?
stronest: BA best network between US and europe, and much of Africa and Asia for westerners.

Many Americans and Europeans flying to Thailand and China do fly through HEL.


Dont know why people say IB is a weak link to OW. Losts of Latin america, very good euro network and profitable.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Dont know why people say IB is a weak link to OW. Losts of Latin america, very good euro network and profitable

Indeed, IB is a vital link for OW's network Europe-Latin America.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLan_Fanatic From Chile, joined Sep 2001, 1071 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Dont know why people say IB is a weak link to OW. Losts of Latin america, very good euro network and profitable.

Exactly. IB is a key player for oneworld. The weakest link is surely Aer Lingus, as I think they don't bring anything that others couldn't give to the alliance.


User currently offlineEilennaei From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Re AY and HEL: not many people realise that the shortest route between e.g. Britain and many Far East destinations goes through Finland. I blame the traditional school/newsroom world map for that.
One of the routes is drawn just about directly over our house, and on a clear winter afternoon you'll often be able to see as much as four contrails perfectly aligned one after another on their way to fill in their respective landing slots, presumably at a London airport.

[Edited 2005-05-27 21:58:29]

User currently offlineAirlinerfreak From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Quoting Uaalltheway (Reply 1):
Weakest:
Star: Varig
Sky: Delta
OneWorld: Iberia

Strongest:
Sky: Lufthansa
Sky: AirFrance/KLM
OneWorld: British Airways

I actually have to agree with you on this thing Joe, everything exactly as you said it except for one, OneWorld has to be AA in my personal opinion.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

I would think that it would be Star: LH/SQ/UA, the first two for their service and reputation, and UA because without them, they'd have a huge chunk missing and the only presence they would have would be US, which isn't a good sign. One World: BA or CX Sky Team: CO or KL-AF Weakest- Star: RG or US, One World: IB or EI, Sky Team: KL

25 SQuared : Star: Spanair appears to be the least important (although it is part of SAS Group). LH and UA are probably the anchors of Star, while SQ doesn't seem
26 L410Turbolet : If size is the criteria, then they are certainly weak. On the other hand I would take anyday a fairly small profit-making airline over a struggling g
27 SQuared : I agree that small but efficient carriers are better than gigantic carriers with financial problems. I also prefer carriers with good service. But if
28 Checo77 : Definitely true. Big airlines, even though they may struggle, are key players in the alliances. The small airlines are only an addition. But I can ce
29 L410Turbolet : That's certainly true. But I was asking what criteria are there to be called alliance's "weakest link". Financial health? Network? Quality of service
30 Post contains images SQuared : I think network is one of the most important components of an Alliance, beyond that of a marketing gimmick. Financial health isn't the most important
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