BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3383 posts, RR: 29 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 558 times:
What do you expect with FR? The word "respect" does not exist in their vocabulary. No respect for passengers. No respect for airport authorities. No respect for people who do not wish to be transported like cattle. No respect for their established carriers. The list could go on.
Imagine in FR and MOL were in the hotel business. Would they poke fun at the luxury hotels and people who enjoy additional comfort and amenities and who are willing to pay for this rather than some seedy backstreet bed and breakfast establishment? You bet your ass they would. Their establishments would probably have posters such as "Up Yours! Fairmont/Hilton/Marriott" Mind you, VS and U2 have also put "messages" on their aircraft.
Yet the FR directors are no tightfists when it comes to their personal life styles - with DB's £6 million 40th birthday party, MOL's "taxi" licence to beat the traffic jams just to name a couple of their extravagances.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
Crox1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 555 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 3): What do you expect with FR? The word "respect" does not exist in their vocabulary. No respect for passengers. No respect for airport authorities. No respect for people who do not wish to be transported like cattle. No respect for their established carriers. The list could go on.
Imagine in FR and MOL were in the hotel business. Would they poke fun at the luxury hotels and people who enjoy additional comfort and amenities and who are willing to pay for this rather than some seedy backstreet bed and breakfast establishment? You bet your ass they would. Their establishments would probably have posters such as "Up Yours! Fairmont/Hilton/Marriott" Mind you, VS and U2 have also put "messages" on their aircraft.
Yet the FR directors are no tightfists when it comes to their personal life styles - with DB's £6 million 40th birthday party, MOL's "taxi" licence to beat the traffic jams just to name a couple of their extravagances.
Hey,
Don't get me wrong; as I am not a great fan of Ryanair's way of treating PAX, but, without airlines such as FR; thousands of people would not be able to afford to fly.
Full service airlines tend to charge twice if not triple the fare FR do, (although FR do fly to provincial airports), what do you get for the extra money?, a meal that is hardly pallatable, that you get 15 minutes to eat before the F/A's want to collect your tray and if you are lucky if you get a free soft drink.
These slogans painted on the planes are just another way of giving the "V" sign to the so called full service, who seem to impose fuel surcharges, as and when the mood takes them, how come FR doesn't impose these rises as regularly?.
I say good luck to FR and their like, if they can offer air travel to people, (including myself), who can't or won't pay the full service airlines.
As the saying goes; you pays your money, you makes your choice, give me a cheap flight that is reliable, rather than comfort that gets me there eventually.
Andy
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute
Crox1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 541 times:
Hi,
Further to my last post, I have just learnt via Reuters:-
"A barrel of light crude was quoted at $63.25, down $2.22, on the New York Mercantile Exchange.".
Will the legacy carriers reduce their fuel surcharges?, I don't think so.
Heres to Michael O'Leary sticking two fingers up to the legacies that want to pass extra costs onto their PAX, but when the price of fuel goes down; they stick to their higher prices.
Legacies, take a lesson from the low cost carriers, take the rough with the smooth.
Andy
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute
given the chance i would happily pay abit more and fly on a much more proffessional airline then ryanair.
Quoting BCAL (Reply 3): What do you expect with FR? The word "respect" does not exist in their vocabulary. No respect for passengers. No respect for airport authorities. No respect for people who do not wish to be transported like cattle. No respect for their established carriers. The list could go on.
Quoting Vasu (Reply 5): I often wondered, too, if there is a legal issue with this? I mean, they actually printed names of airlines on these slogans!
Very cheap and unprofessional, but
I guess that Virgin is a very cheap, unprofessional and disrespectful airline as well for posting the "No way BA/AA!" stickers on their a/c ...
I'm going to have to disagree with most of you on this one. I've flown FR several times in the last few years and enjoyed every flight. I live on a very tight budget and cannot afford to travel nearly as much as I'd like to. I also do not work for an airline and cannot non-rev like a lot of you. I have to pay for every penny myself when I purchase a ticket and have to work my ass of for it. Thanks to FR, they've allowed me to travel through out Europe, go to places that I may never have been to and they have always treated me as a person and not just as a number or statistic. When I flew on them last year on my birthday from GRO-BVA and received a free sandwich/coffee and visit up to the flightdeck.
Crox1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 539 times:
Hey
Thanks ACDC6 for your support, surely we cannot be the only ones that support low airfares! anyhow welcome to my; (strictly limited ); respected users list.
Andy
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute
Thanks ACDC6 for your support, surely we cannot be the only ones that support low airfares! anyhow welcome to my; (strictly limited ); respected users list.
No problem! It always amazed me how people bow down and praise people like Herb Kelleher, Freddie Laker or Richard Branson and kiss their own asses to defend these people for "revolutionizing" the industry. Yet they critisize every move the Mike O'Leary makes for doing the same thing.
So what if they use airports that are an hour's drive away from the destination they advertise. Guess what, we Canadians have no clue where Hahn is, but we know where Frankfurt is. And if it's an hour away, who the hell cares? So what if I have to pay 5 Euros for a sandwich, so what if I have to pay a charge for a booking change or extra luggage. If an airline can offer me a ticket for a price that I can afford and still make it as one of the most profitable airlines around, they must be doing something right.
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 4566 posts, RR: 24 Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 527 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9): If an airline can offer me a ticket for a price that I can afford and still make it as one of the most profitable airlines around, they must be doing something right.
I don't think that anyone's denying O'Leary his well deserved credit, however the question is whether putting stupid stickers on his a/c, acting like total a$$hole just for the sake of a PR stunt and treating his employees like in 18th century is really necessary for this success or not.
There are plenty of other LCC, who manage to run their profitable business, provide reasonably priced travel all without this annoying, disrespectful stuff.
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 6881 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 523 times:
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 10): There are plenty of other LCC, who manage to run their profitable business, provide reasonably priced travel all without this annoying, disrespectful stuff.
The way I see it, every company does business the way the see fit. If it's FR or VS placing these types of decals on their aircraft or by playing dirty politics behind the public eye as BA has done in the past. Personally, I don't see how FR shows any disrespect to anyone by doing this. Others may have different views, but I don't see what the problem is. Sure it may just be some PR stunt but it seems to work for them and they can get off by offering the public great deals to fly places.
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3383 posts, RR: 29 Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 512 times:
Quoting Crox1 (Reply 4): Full service airlines tend to charge twice if not triple the fare FR do, (although FR do fly to provincial airports), what do you get for the extra money?, a meal that is hardly pallatable, that you get 15 minutes to eat before the F/A's want to collect your tray and if you are lucky if you get a free soft drink.
Well for starters, you normally fly to the main airport for your intended destination, not something like Newcastle being promoted as London North. And the main airports normally have better amenities and transport to the towns. Then if you choose an airline like BA over FR, they have back up planes for when yours goes wrong. They look after you if your flight is delayed, diverted, or cancelled. If you are "transferring" to another flight with the same airline, they normally do all they can to make sure you make your connection. Sometimes you get free drinks and meals on board appropriate to the time of the day - admittedly not Gourmet standard (and sometimes not even edible) but nevertheless appreciated. The cabin crew are more professional and, sorry to say this, I feel safer in a BA plane than on a FR plane.
Quoting Crox1 (Reply 6): Will the legacy carriers reduce their fuel surcharges?, I don't think so.
Heres to Michael O'Leary sticking two fingers up to the legacies that want to pass extra costs onto their PAX, but when the price of fuel goes down; they stick to their higher prices.
The reason why airlines like FR do not have so-called fuel surcharges is simply because they change their quoted fares as often and when they like. You might find a fare on Monday quoted at £29.99. Oil is then increased by $5 a barrel. You look at the fare afterwards and find that it has gone up to £39.99. How do you know that the £10 increase is not a fuel surcharge?
You might ask why the fuel surcharges do not go down when a reduction in the price of oil is announced. How do you know your airline, predicting further increases in the cost of oil, has not hedged their prices at the last increase? Do banks cut the rate of interest on your loan immediately a reduction in base rates has been announced?
Quoting Crox1 (Reply 8): surely we cannot be the only ones that support low airfares!
Please do not get me wrong. I also support low airfares. Nevertheless, I also believe that you should have a choice and if you choose to fly ABX airlines at £300 compared with FR at £100, you should be allowed to make your choice. MacDonald's sells meals at £2.99. L'Escargot sells meals from £50. If I want it to be a special occasions, can I not go to L'Escargot? Cheap airfares have made it possible for many people, other than the rich or those with expense accounts, to fly and visit places they would never have been able to visit before. Great. The only downsides are that standards of service are dropping as many airlines are being forced to drop fares to remain competitive, and sometimes the standards of your fellow passengers are dropping too. No, I am not being a snob. I am just simply saying that when airfares were high, would those noisy lads behind you on their way to a stag weekend in Prague have been going to Prague rather than Blackpool.
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9): No problem! It always amazed me how people bow down and praise people like Herb Kelleher, Freddie Laker or Richard Branson and kiss their own asses to defend these people for "revolutionizing" the industry. Yet they critisize every move the Mike O'Leary makes for doing the same thing
I have to confess that I sometimes secretly admire what MOL does or says, it is just the way he often says it - rudely, arrogant and laced with expletives. Freddie Laker was a typical English gentleman, calm and professional, never appeared angry or aggresive, and was liked and admired by the majority. I do not know much about Herb Kelleher and I reserve my comments on Bearded.
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11): playing dirty politics behind the public eye as BA has done in the past
Most businesses, airlines etc play dirty tricks but not being caught in the process is the main thing. By painting slogans on their aircraft, FR and VS are simply being childish. What would you think if BA painted on their aircraft slogans on their aircraft directed at FR or VS? I can make up some very good ones!
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 5092 posts, RR: 36 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 503 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 12): You might find a fare on Monday quoted at £29.99. Oil is then increased by $5 a barrel. You look at the fare afterwards and find that it has gone up to £39.99. How do you know that the £10 increase is not a fuel surcharge?
Or: The advertised basic fare stays the same, but a coverage of higher fuel costs is simply added to one of these obscure "taxes / fees / handling fees" that nobody can control ...
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 485 times:
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 10): L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 2174 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted Thu Oct 6 2005 03:39:08 UTC+2 and read 41 times:
I don't think that anyone's denying O'Leary his well deserved credit, however the question is whether putting stupid stickers on his a/c, acting like total a$$hole just for the sake of a PR stunt and treating his employees like in 18th century is really necessary for this success or not.
There are plenty of other LCC, who manage to run their profitable business, provide reasonably priced travel all without this annoying, disrespectful stuff.
I fully agree with your analysis: we are not discussing about the fact that there are a lot of LCC over there (that's a good thing under a competitive point of view).
I was just criticizing their communication strategy that seems to be very unappropriate and unfair!
About how they treat their employees: I know from one of them (a pilot) the RyanAir style in the relationship with the employees...
It's really like in the 18th century: "hey man these are our rules.... what? You dont agree??? OK, no problem, the door is just behind you and it's always open..."
Doing that I guess that you can easily apply low fares on your flights....
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 6881 posts, RR: 50 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 469 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 12): Most businesses, airlines etc play dirty tricks but not being caught in the process is the main thing. By painting slogans on their aircraft, FR and VS are simply being childish. What would you think if BA painted on their aircraft slogans on their aircraft directed at FR or VS? I can make up some very good ones!
In my personal view, it honestly doesn't bother me one bit. If it gets their message across, I'm all for it. However, there are limits of course, if FR were to paint lies or half truths about a different airline, that would be different. But simple messages as the ones posted above are fine by me. BTW, I've flown on EI-CSH (Auf Wiedersehen Lufthansa) and EI-CSZ (Arevverderci Alitalia) myself ...
Crox1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 431 times:
Quoting 777 (Reply 14): About how they treat their employees: I know from one of them (a pilot) the RyanAir style in the relationship with the employees...
It's really like in the 18th century: "hey man these are our rules.... what? You dont agree??? OK, no problem, the door is just behind you and it's always open..."
In how many other industries are employees treated like this, I bet it happens in the vast majority. As long as workplaces are safe, then I don't see a problem, if you don't like a companies rules and working practices then don't apply for the job, if you are already working there then, you know where the door is. We all have the freedom of choice.
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute
Don't get me wrong; as I am not a great fan of Ryanair's way of treating PAX, but, without airlines such as FR; thousands of people would not be able to afford to fly.
Full service airlines tend to charge twice if not triple the fare FR do, (although FR do fly to provincial airports), what do you get for the extra money?, a meal that is hardly pallatable, that you get 15 minutes to eat before the F/A's want to collect your tray and if you are lucky if you get a free soft drink.
These slogans painted on the planes are just another way of giving the "V" sign to the so called full service, who seem to impose fuel surcharges, as and when the mood takes them, how come FR doesn't impose these rises as regularly?.
I say good luck to FR and their like, if they can offer air travel to people, (including myself), who can't or won't pay the full service airlines.
As the saying goes; you pays your money, you makes your choice, give me a cheap flight that is reliable, rather than comfort that gets me there eventually.
Quoting Crox1 (Reply 6): Will the legacy carriers reduce their fuel surcharges?, I don't think so.
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 7): I'm going to have to disagree with most of you on this one. I've flown FR several times in the last few years and enjoyed every flight. I live on a very tight budget and cannot afford to travel nearly as much as I'd like to. I also do not work for an airline and cannot non-rev like a lot of you. I have to pay for every penny myself when I purchase a ticket and have to work my ass of for it. Thanks to FR, they've allowed me to travel through out Europe, go to places that I may never have been to and they have always treated me as a person and not just as a number or statistic.
I agrree with everything you guys have said.
There are only a handful of people who actually praise the LCC's for what they do. FR is the only airline that has always delivered 100% satisfaction to my family and I when travelling. Long may it continue. Until I am rich I will fly on FR as my first choice of airline around Europe.
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 6881 posts, RR: 50 Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 374 times:
Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 17): There are only a handful of people who actually praise the LCC's for what they do. FR is the only airline that has always delivered 100% satisfaction to my family and I when travelling. Long may it continue. Until I am rich I will fly on FR as my first choice of airline around Europe.
Same here! Plus their hot "Ham & Cheese" sandwiches are soooooooooo good!
SonOfACaptain From United States, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 384 times:
Very unprofessional and I hate it. Call me an old-timer, which is ironic because I am not that old, but I still consider this a professional industry and these kinds of things make me sick.
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