Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10586 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 3): The "Titans" were the family of giants in Greek Mythology born of Uranus and Gaea and ruled the world until overthrown by Olympian gods.
And the Titanic is also a ship that sank on it maiden voyage, so I don't know what their hyperbole is all about. I read the article (go to http://www.flightinternational.com/A...47-8+vs+A380+A+titanic+tussle.html directly). It was interesting, but mostly rhetoric. Just the thing to start a new A/B war
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 6843 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10436 times:
Nothing new in it, though a bit negative for the 747-8I.
Lets hope both, the A380 and the new 747, gain orders next week! I want to fly with both in the next decade.
RichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10436 times:
From the article:
Quote:
Express package carriers have ordered the bulk of the A380Fs to date, while the 747-8F was launched by two general cargo airlines, which Boeing says indicates the Airbus freighter’s configuration is suited to carrying the heavier, higher-density loads normally associated with general freight carriage.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1677 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10374 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 3): The "Titans" were the family of giants in Greek Mythology born of Uranus and Gaea and ruled the world until overthrown by Olympian gods.
This is what I was thinking. Maybe the author sees both planes as sinking ships.... hehe More seriously I do hope that both the A380 and the 747-8 manage well. It will be more interesting for all us aviation enthusiast But I tend to get the feeling that they want be regular visitors to Oslo
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18424 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10161 times:
What an ignorant statement by the Airbus man...
"The new model enters service 40 years after the 747-100, and has the same old wing, same old cockpit as the -400, and same old cabin – there is no improvement from the 1960s comfort standard,” says Carcaillet.
While it isn't as modern as the 787, it isn't the same old cabin or even same old cockpit, nor the same old wing.
Unless he is willing to say the same thing about the A350? It's based on the tired A300, a 40 year old platform...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10075 times:
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 7): Express package carriers have ordered the bulk of the A380Fs to date, while the 747-8F was launched by two general cargo airlines, which Boeing says indicates the Airbus freighter’s configuration is suited to carrying the heavier, higher-density loads normally associated with general freight carriage.
Anyone else see a problem with this? Smile
As I said "rhetoric". The facts are the reverse. The A380 is a great UPS plane and will carry tonnes and tonnes of electronic goodies from Asia to the US and Europe. It is going to be well suited for that. But I doubt they will have "general freight" higher-density loads.
Stratofortress From United States, joined Dec 2005, 162 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10053 times:
I just dont understand why people keep comparing these two aircraft. Just because they are the biggest product at their respective companies, doesnt meant that they are comparable.
Stratofortress From United States, joined Dec 2005, 162 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9940 times:
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1363 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9911 times:
Titanic Of or relating to the Titans.
Having great stature or enormous strength; huge or colossal: titanic creatures of the deep.
Of enormous scope, power, or influence: “a deepening sense that some titanic event lay just beyond the horizon” (W. Bruce Lincoln).
So when the article refers to a titanic struggle it is meaning it in the sense of a huge struggle.
AvObserver From United States, joined Apr 2002, 2364 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9581 times:
"Airbus appears undisturbed by the arrival of competition from Seattle, dismissing it as nothing more than a warmed-over 747. “Boeing is stretching a 40-year-old design to the limit,” says director of product marketing A380, Richard Carcaillet.
“The new model enters service 40 years after the 747-100, and has the same old wing, same old cockpit as the -400, and same old cabin – there is no improvement from the 1960s comfort standard,” says Carcaillet. “There is no development potential, and no engine choice,” he adds."
While there are grains of truth in his statement, he overstates the 747 design's age factor greatly. The 747-400 was such a radical revamp of the original 747-100, it's really more like a 20 year-old design, even though the basic airframe is 40 years old. And the 747-8 won't have exactly "the same old wing"; it will be a heavily modified version of the 744's wing which itself was significantly changed from the original -100. While the cockpit will be much the same as the -400, saying "there is no improvement from the 1960s comfort standard" is a gross exaggeration; Boeing has done major revamps of the 747 interior since the first examples. As for "no development potential", that remains to be seen. Although perhaps unlikely, it's still possible to stretch the 747 further, bringing it closer to the A388, if BCA sees market potential. For Airbus to simply dismiss the 747-8 as non-competitive would be unwise because its smaller and lighter design could outweigh the A380's new tech with certain carriers who don't need more than 450-500 seats. If the 747-8 tried too hard to go head-to=head with the A380, it would have little chance but undercutting the superjumbo's mass gives it a unique niche in which it can grab some operators expanding from the A346/773ER class while snagging some customers unwilling to go too big, especially in the freighter arena.
Jacobin777 From United States, joined Sep 2004, 13323 posts, RR: 69 Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9559 times:
here is another link which provides some more helpful insights/information..
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18424 posts, RR: 60 Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9442 times:
Quoting AvObserver (Reply 18): While there are grains of truth in his statement, he overstates the 747 design's age factor greatly. The 747-400 was such a radical revamp of the original 747-100, it's really more like a 20 year-old design, even though the basic airframe is 40 years old
That was my point re: the A350, a plane based on the original A300 concept, of course heavily modified with new wings, stretched fuselage, new landing gear, modern electronics, application of new materials, new engines, cockpit, interior, etc., etc. over time.
Oh wait, that's what the 748 is as well.
Of course Boeing is less harsh but still critical of the 350 for the same reasons, but downplaying those drawbacks for the 748.
So they should both shut up about old airframes and talk about the merits of their own products. And the A380 and 748 aren't exactly selling like hotcakes, either of them.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18424 posts, RR: 60 Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9344 times:
Quoting Iwok (Reply 21): Interesting however are the claims that Boeing is using grossly inflated wt and fuel burn claims for the 380F. Any truth to that?
I don't know. But I do know that the various comparison and tables posted on A.net use numbers from each manufacturer for their own planes, and the A380 doesn't come out on top. So either Airbus is using secret real A380 numbers they aren't giving other people, or they are full of hot air on that front.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Keesje From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 9843 posts, RR: 51 Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7138 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22): So either Airbus is using secret real A380 numbers they aren't giving other people, or they are full of hot air on that front.
Maybe we should endless repeat the Airbus claims too, like Baselers claims get endlessly repeated and quoted. Maybe they gain some credibility here on a.net in this same way.
Whitebodyphoto or what is his name exactly knows where to turn the buttons (e.g. seat counts /pitches / mission profiles) to significantly influence outcomes & suggest (not claim) superiority.
RichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7086 times:
Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
As I said "rhetoric". The facts are the reverse. The A380 is a great UPS plane and will carry tonnes and tonnes of electronic goodies from Asia to the US and Europe. It is going to be well suited for that. But I doubt they will have "general freight" higher-density loads.
You misunderstand, its not rhetoric, theres an entire word missing from that paragraph.
As it stands, the paragraph I quoted has BOEING stating that the AIRBUS aircraft is suited to carrying heavier loads, while we all know that it isnt.
The word 'not' should be in there somewhere.
26 Poitin: Ah! Richard, you are far too subtle! Of course I missed the missing word, thinking that someone was blowing smoke. But how do you know that what you
27 Leothedog: I agree. These are two different aircraft designed for two different niches: A380 - 550 passengers 474-8 - 450 passengers The A380 will be a success.
28 NumberTwelve: But we only know that Titanic is no legend/fairy tail (or whatever)
29 BigB: I hope your not sugesting that widebodyphoto is changing numbers just to suggest superiority of one product over another?
30 N328KF: Keesje is just mad that his pet aircraft doesn't reflect as well. Keep in mind what Widebodyphotog does for a living. He has to professionally deal w
31 FlyDreamliner: Airbus is just shovelling crap now. The comfort: the 747-8 has the new "Signature Interior" developed for 777. This is the same interior than an inde
32 Ikramerica: Did I say I was repeating any claims of superiority? No. I said looking at Boeings OWN NUMBERS and Airbus's OWN NUMBERS, the A380 does not come out o
33 AirFrnt: Really? I thought you were doing a great job of that! I don't think I buy your 767 versus A330 and A340 argument. The 767 is being put in the grave r
34 9252fly: Just curious,has anyone for the sake of comparison ever posted how many seats the new 748 will have compared to the 388 when in a full economy configu
35 AndesSMF: I agree, there is almost no good comparisons between the two. You use what is more efficient for the route. On heavily travelled hub to hub routes th
36 SunriseValley: Absolutely correct ! To compound the A380's woes it is becoming known that operators planning the introduction are using numbers that are worse than
37 Keesje: I´ve no idea what you are talking about! Current B747-400 seat counts are publicly available: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Bri...itish_Airways_B
38 Comorin: The word 'Titanic' is used in the context of "Clash of the Titans" vs the other movie, fot those of us who ain't educated in the Greek Classics...
39 Lehpron: We are told in our senior design classes to get info from local and national engine manufacturers for most of our designs. But these companies do not
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15918 posts, 
From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1677 posts, 
From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 6843 posts, 
From France, joined Nov 2005, 1632 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1142 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1363 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1098 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
