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Which US Airlines Should Fold?  
User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Which airline do you believe should go out of business and why? If I just base it on employee relations, I say NWA and UAL.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

Can anyone tell me of a company that has lost billions of dollars and is still in business? Please no US government run companies.

User currently offlineJeffry747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4161 times:
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I think US Airways should be the one to go. For starters, they have the worst safety record of all the legacy carriers of the past 15-20 years. I can think of 6 major accidents off the top of my head.

I have heard from many sources that customer service in general is not very good. The airline had to make lots of cuts to wages and benefits, hurting employee morale. An employee not happy at his job generally is not a good worker. He/she will do the bare essentials to get the job done and thats about it. I am not trying to badmouth US Airways employees in any way: You guys are doing a fine job of trying to keep your company and jobs alive. I know it is stressfull as all hell and I commend you for keeping up the fight. But if I was not happy at my job, it would definitely show in my performance.

IIRC US has been in bankruptcy multiple times, burning through billions of both their own and taxpayers money. That has to at least put a little strain on both the airline industry and the economy. I really do hate to say this but IMHO I think any airline that is consistently taking such heavy losses should downsize to just the routes that have high load factors and are profitable. Sell the slots you are no longer using to other airlines; park the planes you are not using. Don't sell them, (ok maybe a few) you might need them if routes get more business. The reason I hate that is because I am against corporate thinking. and would rather take the side of the the average worker and his family. I don't believe that companies in general give a damn about their employees. They expect you the employee to be honest, fair, and loyal, but come crunch time they will drop you and your family in a heartbeat. It's all about that good "business decision." To them money is WAY more important than the employee that made the company that dollar. Sorry to ramble on, but I had to get that off my chest. I believe this way of corporate thinking is going to be the downfall of not just US Airways, but many other companies as well.

And now for the roasting.  bomb   duck 



C'mon Big B, FLY!
User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1004 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

definitly CO if they dont accept my credit card

 Angry



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 2):
IIRC US has been in bankruptcy multiple times

Who is IIRC US?


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

Opinion......American, because I do not use them or need them. I know there is a difference of opinion here but thats what these threads are all about.

I use NW and DL. That puts me on the short end. We shall see what the future brings.  crossfingers 
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7502 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

Any low cost carrier that continues to destroy the lively hood of thousands of other airline employees by paying their employees poorly. Any airline trying to start up in the US should not even start, IE, Virgin America.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 4):
Who is IIRC US?

He meant If I Recall Correctly, US(the two letter ID for US Airways)....

Its an abbreviation we use on a.net sometimes.

I dont think any airline SHOULD fold, but if one had to I would say NW or DL would go simply from the situation(s) they are in at the moment. I hope neither does, however, as I grew up flying DL and recently had a great trip with NW.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 7):
He meant If I Recall Correctly, US(the two letter ID for US Airways)....

Thx. for explaining the IIRC. Besides the US airlines, is there any other companies that have lost billions and are still in business? Please no US government run companies.


User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 7):
but if one had to I would say NW or DL would go simply from the situation(s) they are in at the moment.

If UAL and US had folded, would NWA and DAL be in the shape they are know?


User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3175 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4089 times:
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Agreed that none SHOULD go.. but if one had to, and it pains me to say this as they are one of my favorites, I'd have to say Northwest.

Even if the problems are being resolved, they are only temporary fixes. Please just put them out of their misery...

JBLU


User currently offlineCrox1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 305 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4080 times:
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Hi

As an Aviation fan, knowing how it felt no longer seeing the likes of Pan Am, TWA and Branniff on this side of the "Pond", I don't wish to see any Airline go belly up, but, if any Airline puts money before safety; then they should go immediately.

Andy



Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute
User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Quoting Crox1 (Reply 11):
if any Airline puts money before safety; then they should go immediately.

If you ask most US airline mechanics(like myself) and talk to them about some of the work they see coming back from the cheaper 3rd party vendors, we would have very few US airlines.


User currently offlineCrox1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 305 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4064 times:
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Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 12):
If you ask most US airline mechanics(like myself) and talk to them about some of the work they see coming back from the cheaper 3rd party vendors, we would have very few US airlines.

Hi,

So, cutting corners on safety to save money is acceptable?, even buying inferior services from sources other than the original manufacturer, do these parts still achieve CAA standards, or, are you saying repairs and servicing are offered out to the highest tender, regardless of history or competance?.

Whatever, it is it seems to compromise safety, any Airline that does this should not be flying with an airworthyness Certificate.

Andy



Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute
User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Quoting Crox1 (Reply 13):
So, cutting corners on safety to save money is acceptable?, even buying inferior services from sources other than the original manufacturer, do these parts still achieve CAA standards, or, are you saying repairs and servicing are offered out to the highest tender, regardless of history or competance?.

Acceptable to corporate America,YES. The US government and the FAA do very little until someone dies or should I say a lot of people die. Parts are somewhat of a problem but not that bad. Tons of articles about lack of oversight of 3rd party vendors by the FAA. DAL just pulled out of a vendor in Miami,Fl. because of maintenance problems. Cutting corners to save money is in all industries not just in the airlines.


User currently offlineMX757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 628 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4043 times:

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 12):
If you ask most US airline mechanics(like myself) and talk to them about some of the work they see coming back from the cheaper 3rd party vendors, we would have very few US airlines.

Agreed, Back in the early 90's CO outsourced everything except line maintenance. They are now on the flip side of outsourcing to vendors. This whole maintenance facility here in MCO is in existence because of that. Every line here (4 ea) with the exception of the 737NG heavy check line was once outsourced. We are also currently bringing back some heavy check lines.(757,767)

I could tell people here many stories about the crap work I see that came from vendors. The level of workmanship is pathetic. Vendor's don't care about putting out a safe reliable product. All they care about is time and money. As long as they make the aircraft's ETR (Estimated Time to Release) on time and on budget then they don't have to really worry about losing their contract to another vendor.

We here at MCO have proved countless times to the CO bean counters that in house maintenance does put out a safe and reliable product on time and on budget. You know why? Because this is my airline and I care about the product I put out there. If it goes goes over schedule so be it, at least I have the comfort of knowing that it's safe.

But it never fails! Every time an airline starts to really struggle financially the first thing they do is start outsourcing maintenance.

That's why I think NW should go. If they don't care about their people, some who have been there 20 years plus, do you really think that they care about their passengers?

[Edited 2006-03-03 07:04:21]

[Edited 2006-03-03 07:08:37]


Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4039 times:

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 2):
I can think of 6 major accidents off the top of my head.

Which all happened 15-20 years ago.

US is perfectly safe! Most of those accidents were full of bad luck. Come on buddy, don't ever do this when describing US again. It shows lack of knowledge about the real US. For instance, did you know US was the only airline in all of history to score a perfect score on some 700+ category test.

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 2):
and taxpayers money.

US did not burn the taxpayers money! In fact, US in a way payed the taxpayers. The loan that US took after 9-11, the government actually made a profit off of it.

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 2):
That has to at least put a little strain on both the airline industry and the economy.

Well that explains why US is one of the better performing airlines currently, and one of the very few airlines that predict to make a profit in '06.  sarcastic 

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 2):
should downsize to just the routes that have high load factors and are profitable.



Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 2):
park the planes you are not using.

And what exactly do you think US has been doing for the past 5 years? They are half the sice (pre-merger) than the were before 9-11.

Buddy, you are talking about US as if it was 2003, when everybody was talking about about US and predicted that they were going out-of-business. US has a bright future ahead of them.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineNonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

I would have to say it should be northwest.

User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 16):
US did not burn the taxpayers money! In fact, US in a way payed the taxpayers. The loan that US took after 9-11, the government actually made a profit off of it.

Didn't US dump their pension plans on the PDGC (US government) which means the US taxpayers? Has US actual paid off the government loan? Correct me if I'm wrong, but US could not make a profit in the late 90's when all others were making record profits?


User currently offlineDokken10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Quoting MX757 (Reply 15):
But it never fails! Every time an airline starts to really struggle financially the first thing they do is start outsourcing maintenance.

EXACTLY!! We showed NWA management over and over the problems with these vendors. Did they do anything about it, NO!! I agree that NWA needs to go away. If I had to pick a airline that is unsafe right now, NWA wins hands down.


User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3972 times:

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 18):

Didn't US dump their pension plans on the PDGC (US government) which means the US taxpayers?

Ah yes, forgot about that.

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 18):
Has US actual paid off the government loan?

No, but they are not paying the government anymore. The government sold the loan and in fact, made a profit from it.

Quoting Dokken10 (Reply 18):
but US could not make a profit in the late 90's when all others were making record profits?

They did make a profit.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3969 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Lets knock off a few of these crazier carriers, such as hooters air.


The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

AA, and come back as TWA. Big grin


Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 3858 times:

I liked the days before airlines wanted to be mega carriers. I liked the variety of smaller airlines such as Western, PSA, AirCal...They were fun to fly. As I read about which airline should fold I find myself concerned about all of the job loss.

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