767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 12 Posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1811 times:
There is some talk of mergers to likely occur in the industry. From a worldwide perspective, which mergers do you think will likely occur in the next 5 years (short-term)?
I see something between Iberia and BA occuring, ala KLM-Air France.
I would not be surprised to see United and the new US Airways try something due to the recent press releases about US Airways not discarding merging again with a legacy. United seems like the best fit.
What others do you see?
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
DeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1803 times:
Quoting 767-332ER (Thread starter): I would not be surprised to see United and the new US Airways try something due to the recent press releases about US Airways not discarding merging again with a legacy. United seems like the best fit
(Donning Armchair CEO cap)This can't happen, UA tried this back in the 90's and it got shot down by the DOJ for Anti-Trust. The only way this could happen is if the "new" US goes back in the toilet and is on the verge of Chapter 7 (liquidation). In terms of fleet/hubs the merger would work out. Here's my list of possible mergers.
Spirit/Air-Tran: If Spirit wants to grow, and the same with Air-Tran, a merger would be greatly beneficial to the two carriers who don't have a good foothold in the US Airline industry.The fleets are in the ballpark with some MD-80/717 on either side, but with AirTran having 737 and Spirit with A320 family, this could become a little troublesome. Hub locations are ok with ACY/ATL, but a westward expansion would be beneficial.
United/Northwest:NW is a carrier in trouble, BK isn't going all that well for them, with the MX dilemma and other problems. Both have comparable short-range fleets with the exception of the infamous DC-9's. (A-320 family), and with the 757's for medium haul, and the 747's for long-haul. Of course UA has 767/777 while NW has A330, but that could be worked out. Also NW's two hubs aren't in a great placement for UA, but I suppose they could keep MSP. With both carriers strong in Asia and the the Midwest, this could be a very good merger waiting to happen.
Frontier/jetBlue:Although Neelman isn't a fan of mergers, after MorrisAir, I think this is a merger waiting to happen. Fleet commonality is great (A320 family) and because F9 has a strong presence in the West, coupled with B6's eastern dominance we could see a good match. B6 got a lot of bad press after their dreaded MX stops for fuel in-route West Coast-JFK. F9 seems to have nailed down the problem with intercontinental flying with the A319. Both operate the same business model: LCC with leather seats/TV and point to point service while having a central hub.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
I am totally against completely frivolous mergers such as DL/NW and UA/CO. They do not make any sense at all.
Although this is wishful thinking, I think that a Delta/Continental merger would make sense, especially in terms of fleet integration. A United/US Airways merger would also make sense, as they both operate Airbus narrowbodies, the 767 and 777 fleet could easily be replaced by A330s/A350s.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
DesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1765 times:
I am also not in favor of large carriers merging to creat even larger carriers.
For the sake of competition, I would like to see smaller carriers like Spirit, AirTran, Frontier, Sun Country and Jet-Blue form an alliance. This would motivate people to fly these carriers and give better reward options.
Nitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 463 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1750 times:
Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 1): NW is a carrier in trouble, BK isn't going all that well for them,
NWA in trouble, don't they have more cash & assets than Delta ?
What isn't going well?
NWA has been winning with the Judges over the unions. They continue to improve their fleet (A330 vs.DC-10), and have ordered 787s. Flights are now being added.
Also they are not "bankrupt" that is Chap.7 , they are using Chap.11 to "clean-up" their union contracts & work rules. I haven't heard much from the mechanics union that was going to put NWA out of business.
I think that according to the number of A net posts, the DC-9s are very "famous" & paid for, , , instead of infamous.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1744 times:
This merger will happen when Bin Laden runs for vice president of the USA.
ORD,DTW,and MSP are too close. NW has lots of local DTW boardings as does UA at Chicago......meaning those two hubs will stay....which is the reason why
this merger will never happen.
I still like NW and USAIRWAYS and airTran and UA(the minnow swallowing the whale) which is not new in the American business world. This would be a death blow to DL and airTran/UA picks up those pieces and grows even more.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
DeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1742 times:
Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 5): NWA in trouble, don't they have more cash & assets than Delta ?
What isn't going well?
NWA has been winning with the Judges over the unions. They continue to improve their fleet (A330 vs.DC-10), and have ordered 787s. Flights are now being added.
Also they are not "bankrupt" that is Chap.7 , they are using Chap.11 to "clean-up" their union contracts & work rules. I haven't heard much from the mechanics union that was going to put NWA out of business.
I think that according to the number of A net posts, the DC-9s are very "famous" & paid for, , , instead of infamous
I guess I should use more than a grain of salt when taking others words on these forums. It seems that whenever I read a forum about NW, it always contains bleak outlooks and shady deals about the MX guys.
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6): This merger will happen when Bin Laden runs for vice president of the USA.
ORD,DTW,and MSP are too close. NW has lots of local DTW boardings as does UA at Chicago......meaning those two hubs will stay....which is the reason why
this merger will never happen.
I still like NW and USAIRWAYS and airTran and UA(the minnow swallowing the whale) which is not new in the American business world. This would be a death blow to DL and airTran/UA picks up those pieces and grows even more.
I'm sorry I don't quite follow you on that line of thinking?
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1741 times:
A single carrier would not keep mega-hubs in MSP, ORD and DTW. Geographicly too close together to transfer people...good local boardings but ya need the transfers too.
How many pax can you board in NYC and Boston and have them change planes at ORD, MSP AND DTW and make money with full planes? You cant...so one of the three has to go.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
FireFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 91 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1738 times:
Of course categories like this one beg for conjecture. Here's another one...
How about AA and AS? AA is limited in the west (few flights up and down the coast, most flights that originate in western cities route thru DFW, then back). For decades AS has succesfully focused on the western US. I don't know how their few west to east routes are working, but their primary business is from Mexico to Alaska.
I don't know that this is a marriage I would like to see (the more competition the better for the customers) but I DO know that I have absolutely no expertise whatsoever in regards to airline mergers, so I would be curious to know others' thoughts on why this merger would be a good/bad idea.
"Bury me at sea, boys; where no murdered ghosts can haunt me" MacGowan
Philly From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 23 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1732 times:
ACK! Please no talk of a UA/NW merger. What a nightmare that would be. The rumor mill at NW has grown cold with the talks of a NW/DL or NW/CO merger. With DL bleeding money and things still out of control I don't see anyone looking to merge with them for now. NW is trying to get a grip on costs and certainly does have the courts favor (as Nitrohelper stated so well). The MX tried and failed to get more out of NW and I think if the FA's continue in the same direction they might end up continuing to picket while their replacements fly for them.
Too crazy though at this time for any of the top 5 to merge (IMHO). I do think a Air Tran/Spirit merger might fare well for both of them, especially with Spirit continuing to chip away at the NW DTW hub. Time will tell.
Airtanzania1 From Tanzania, joined May 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1719 times:
I dont see any mergers happening just because I dont know the airline industry as much but I hope any an airline like KL or BA can help Air Tanzania just like how KL did with KQ. Yes, I know SA tried to but the guys TC were just not working with them. I hope they wont be ignorant if another offere comes up.
DeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1718 times:
Quoting FireFly (Reply 9): Of course categories like this one beg for conjecture. Here's another one...
How about AA and AS? AA is limited in the west (few flights up and down the coast, most flights that originate in western cities route thru DFW, then back). For decades AS has succesfully focused on the western US. I don't know how their few west to east routes are working, but their primary business is from Mexico to Alaska.
I don't know that this is a marriage I would like to see (the more competition the better for the customers) but I DO know that I have absolutely no expertise whatsoever in regards to airline mergers, so I would be curious to know others' thoughts on why this merger would be a good/bad idea.
That line of thinking gave me an idea. How about CO/AS? Both operate a multitude of 737's and with CO's sparse service in the west, that would make a great merger. The same could apply with AA, but with CO the fleets fit much better.
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1717 times:
I don't see BA fully merging with any airline soon
Quoting Airtanzania1 (Reply 11): but I hope any an airline like KL or BA can help Air Tanzania
BA, did help Air Sudan, atleast with their engineering, they were having troubles, so BA sent out some guys from engineering to help get the books in shape, give assistance etc.
The problem is, that those days are probably gone, why would a big airline waste money to help a small airline half a world aways?
Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5977 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1714 times:
Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 1): BK isn't going all that well for them, with the MX dilemma
What maintainence dilemma are you talking about? BK not going all that well?? They have made an operational profit the last 3 months.
Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 7): It seems that whenever I read a forum about NW, it always contains bleak outlooks and shady deals about the MX guys.
MattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1713 times:
Straying into the Canadian market..
WestJet & CanJet: WestJet lacks east coast penetration. CanJet lacks west coast penetration. Both fly the 737 (tho CanJet flies the older -300 & -500 models), so that would give them some marginal fleet commonality.
Just throwing out some speculation with absolutely no hard evidence to back it up
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3014 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1711 times:
Quoting FireFly (Reply 9): How about AA and AS? AA is limited in the west (few flights up and down the coast, most flights that originate in western cities route thru DFW, then back). For decades AS has succesfully focused on the western US. I don't know how their few west to east routes are working, but their primary business is from Mexico to Alaska.
Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12): That line of thinking gave me an idea. How about CO/AS? Both operate a multitude of 737's and with CO's sparse service in the west, that would make a great merger. The same could apply with AA, but with CO the fleets fit much better.
Hell No! AA would just buy up AS and then immediately cancel all the routes, just like they've done with every other merger they've done. The only thing they'd do with AS would be to take over the Mexico operation, and then use the rest of the planes to phase out some of their MD-80's. CO would probably leave things in tact a bit more, but I doubt they'd keep operations in SEA at the same level as AS.
I think the real merger possibility is US/NW. Perfectly overlapping route maps and fleets (Mostly Airbus with some 757's thrown in for good measure). MEM and PIT get the ax.
DeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1674 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 16): I think the real merger possibility is US/NW. Perfectly overlapping route maps and fleets (Mostly Airbus with some 757's thrown in for good measure). MEM and PIT get the ax.
Hmmmm. I wonder what the DOJ would have to say about that one. However, if one of the carriers were to be extremely close to Ch. 7 and BK, then we could see tha one happen without DOJ interference. Keep in mind, the DOJ will probably only let legacy carriers merge if they were in extreme financial trouble. (Ex:TW/AA)
N43W79 From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
I'd love to see a couple of majors liquidated. Chapter 11 is far too convenient and these behemoths need and incentive to become more competitive. I'd also love to see liberalization of the industry to allow for multi-national airlines. It would be great to see an airline like QF-SQ, or BA-EK, or BA-AA... airlines with true global networks.
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3861 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1569 times:
Quoting N43W79 (Reply 18): I'd love to see a couple of majors liquidated. Chapter 11 is far too convenient and these behemoths need and incentive to become more competitive. I'd also love to see liberalization of the industry to allow for multi-national airlines. It would be great to see an airline like QF-SQ, or BA-EK, or BA-AA... airlines with true global networks.
If such were allowed, how about a DL/AC merger? I'm sure on the financial end of it American Express would just love that one!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
Piercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1526 times:
As far as legacies go:
UA: I could always see US/UA, but the gov't would never allow it. Although it would add PHL, LAS, PHX and CLT to IAD, ORD, DEN, LAX, and SFO, the fleet commonality on long-haul would be interesting. CO would be interesting, adding EWR and IAH, but short-haul would be a mess with fleet and CLE would get the ax. NW and AA are the proverbial snowball in hell. DL would be interesting, with adding ATL, but CVG and SLC would be of no use and it would be a financial disaster.
US: Other then UA, I can only see one, NW. With fleet commonality, hubs fitting in (MSP, DTW, CLT, LAS, PHX, and PHL, with MEM as a domestic hub), and NW in Asia and US in Europe, it would be a good merger. Only problem would be no West Coast presence, so include AS or make SEA a hub? AA, CO, and DL would pass because of fleet and/or hub issues.
AA: If American got anyone, it would be a TWA style buyout. Nobody is in that dire straits, so noone at the moment.
CO: Hmmm... The 757 leader of Europe... Uh oh, a certain ATL airline is trying to copy, and it's a fellow SkyTeam member!!! That's it, DL is dead! With the fleet commonality and hubs interlining (CVG or CLE, EWR, ATL, IAH, and SLC), and more 757s and 777s for the taking, CO would become the powerhouse EU and would still have some planes to start/restart Asian routes. NW wouldn't even be considered.
DL: see above
NW: see above
As far as Legacies & LCC's...
AS & ??: AS is a prime target to merge, be bought out. Why? Other then UA, US and DL, NW, AA, and CO don't have a West Coast "hub". NW could use it and rebuild SEA to it's former glory, CO could use it for an Asian expansion and to aquire some 737s, and AA would probably just take the planes and f*** up SEA in the form of STL.
F9 & UA and FL & DL: Why not? UA wants DEN as a domestic hub and look who is taking the domestic passengers! Plus with the arrival of WN, this could get rid of a powerful competitor. As far as FL & DL, same story except flipped. FL is in good financial shape, DL is a wreck. Could FL pull off a HP and buyout DL???
BMI & ??: I don't know who, but it's just waiting to happen. BMI is screwed up and management is about as stupid as it can get. Someone just end the poor airline.
NZ & QF: Been talked to death, probably will never happen.
That's it, all of course, IMHO.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1520 times:
If Delta and Continental were to merge, I think the wiser decision would be to keep the Delta name. The Delta name is more recognizable than Continental. When US Airways was bought out by America West, the US Airways name, rather than the America West name, was kept due to greater recognition.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
Piercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1519 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21): If Delta and Continental were to merge, I think the wiser decision would be to keep the Delta name.
No way. CO is equally as known as DL on cities they share. They should keep the CO name because of the better financial stability and the fact their name has stayed out of the news with the word bankruptcy attached to it
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1518 times:
Quoting Piercey (Reply 22): the fact their name has stayed out of the news with the word bankruptcy attached to it
So why didn't the merged US Airways/America West keep the America West name?
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
Piercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1512 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 23): So why didn't the merged US Airways/America West keep the America West name?
Simple, America West is a domestic airline with no brand recognition internationally, while CO and DL are both legacy carriers that are known very well brand wise.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
25 FireFly: Whoa, you might notice I did not say that I would be excited by, or support such a merger, only that it does, in fact, make some sense. In the past,
26 Nitrohelper: Now that NWA has arranged their chapter 11 exit financing, maybe the question should be " who will Northwest buy in the future "? How about they buy D
27 Alitalia744: Oddly enough, that won't happen, especially since recent outlooks have changed. Good luck bowling shoe...
28 Acjflyer: Personally I think the mergers need to stop. Before you know it competition will be a word of the past and all of our fares will start to increase. Ag
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