Wilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3 Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5184 times:
Basic question:
If you were to begin transatlantic flights, Privatair style, 48 luxury seats, which aircraft yould you use? Privatair uses both, but which one is more efficient? Which one has better operating costs?
XJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2352 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5129 times:
I personally would choose a 763.
But this would be better off in Av polls and prefs.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5078 times:
As it's related to operational efficiency and not which one looks better or has the more comfy seats, it belongs here.
Given the greater prevalence worldwide of BBJs it's more likely to find qualified maintenance people for it, which would be a major plus for choosing that one over the Airbus.
I don't think the aircraft themselves differ all that much in operational cost per seat/mile, so it has to come from things like that.
Which maintenance crew and pilots can you more easily get? Do you already have Boeing or Airbus qualified crews maybe?
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19810 posts, RR: 56 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5048 times:
From a strict passenger point of view, I´d rather be in an ACJ, since it´s wider and has overall better cabin ergonomics. But that´s secondary to the economic aspects.
Pretty much any airline that is looking to operate ACJ or BBJ service will either have 320s or 737s in service already - it´s pretty easy to figure out which one they´d pick, since they already have the support system in place for one of them.
Privatair is, of course, the big exception, and I don´t know why they´d fly both ACJ and BBJ.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Amtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4978 times:
The Interior configuration is of no significance. These are corporate configured aircraft! Every airplane is different.
Quoting Mir (Reply 3): From a strict passenger point of view, I´d rather be in an ACJ, since it´s wider and has overall better cabin ergonomics. But that´s secondary to the economic aspects.
As far as economics, alot of it comes down to the number of aux tanks installed and their size. Most aux tanks come from a group called PATS that use 500 gal. tanks, which they install in the baggage compt. Based on the weight of fuel will dictate efficiency. Can you carry enough fuel to get to your destination or is a fuel stop req'd? Most of the VIP's that fly these aircraft want expediency and minimal time on the ground.
The biggest factor that most people have difficulty understanting is the complete indifference to egonomics that these VIP's have. Convienience is the driving force in decisions, NOT fuel economy and efficiency.
Wilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4928 times:
Thanks for your replies.
I gather that the differences in economics are negligible, so it would most likely come down to specific circumstances relating to your current operations.
Dw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1245 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4920 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2): Given the greater prevalence worldwide of BBJs it's more likely to find qualified maintenance people for it,
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'd venture most mechanics familiar with a 737NG or A32X could work on a BBJ or ACJ respectively. Therefore, MX wouldn't be a huge factor.
Quoting Mir (Reply 3): From a strict passenger point of view, I�d rather be in an ACJ, since it�s wider and has overall better cabin ergonomics.
Assuming a four abreast layout, I wouldn't really care about the difference. Pitch would matter a lot more.
Amtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4880 times:
Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 6): Assuming a four abreast layout, I wouldn't really care about the difference. Pitch would matter a lot more
Reference my previous post
Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 4): The Interior configuration is of no significance. These are corporate configured aircraft! Every airplane is different
THESE ARE NOT AIRLINERS!!!! They have 20 to 30 seats maximum. This 4 abreast configuration does not exhist, except in very rare aircraft.
Dw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1245 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4860 times:
Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 7):
THESE ARE NOT AIRLINERS!!!! They have 20 to 30 seats maximum. This 4 abreast configuration does not exhist, except in very rare aircraft.
Did you bother to read the poster's question? We are discussing BBJs/ACJs configured in an all F layout, which typically results in around 48 seats, four abreast. We are not discussing your typical private interior!
Amtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4744 times:
Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 9): Did you bother to read the poster's question? We are discussing BBJs/ACJs configured in an all F layout, which typically results in around 48 seats, four abreast. We are not discussing your typical private interior
Take a look at Privatair website and you will see BBJ's with 28 seat configuration.
Dw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1245 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4732 times:
Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 10): Take a look at Privatair website and you will see BBJ's with 28 seat configuration.
This is not the configuration of the aircraft used for airline operations. A319LRs have 48 seats, as to BBJs. BBJ2s have 56.
I once again refer you to the thread starter:
Quoting Wilax (Thread starter):
If you were to begin transatlantic flights, Privatair style, 48 luxury seats
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