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ACJ Or BBJ For Transatlantic Flights?  
User currently offlineWilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7573 times:

Basic question:

If you were to begin transatlantic flights, Privatair style, 48 luxury seats, which aircraft yould you use? Privatair uses both, but which one is more efficient? Which one has better operating costs?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2461 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7518 times:

I personally would choose a 763.

But this would be better off in Av polls and prefs.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7467 times:

As it's related to operational efficiency and not which one looks better or has the more comfy seats, it belongs here.

Given the greater prevalence worldwide of BBJs it's more likely to find qualified maintenance people for it, which would be a major plus for choosing that one over the Airbus.
I don't think the aircraft themselves differ all that much in operational cost per seat/mile, so it has to come from things like that.
Which maintenance crew and pilots can you more easily get? Do you already have Boeing or Airbus qualified crews maybe?



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21624 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

From a strict passenger point of view, I´d rather be in an ACJ, since it´s wider and has overall better cabin ergonomics. But that´s secondary to the economic aspects.

Pretty much any airline that is looking to operate ACJ or BBJ service will either have 320s or 737s in service already - it´s pretty easy to figure out which one they´d pick, since they already have the support system in place for one of them.

Privatair is, of course, the big exception, and I don´t know why they´d fly both ACJ and BBJ.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAmtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7367 times:

The Interior configuration is of no significance. These are corporate configured aircraft! Every airplane is different.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
From a strict passenger point of view, I´d rather be in an ACJ, since it´s wider and has overall better cabin ergonomics. But that´s secondary to the economic aspects.

As far as economics, alot of it comes down to the number of aux tanks installed and their size. Most aux tanks come from a group called PATS that use 500 gal. tanks, which they install in the baggage compt. Based on the weight of fuel will dictate efficiency. Can you carry enough fuel to get to your destination or is a fuel stop req'd? Most of the VIP's that fly these aircraft want expediency and minimal time on the ground.

The biggest factor that most people have difficulty understanting is the complete indifference to egonomics that these VIP's have. Convienience is the driving force in decisions, NOT fuel economy and efficiency.


User currently offlineWilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

Thanks for your replies.

I gather that the differences in economics are negligible, so it would most likely come down to specific circumstances relating to your current operations.

Makes sense...


User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7309 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
Given the greater prevalence worldwide of BBJs it's more likely to find qualified maintenance people for it,

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'd venture most mechanics familiar with a 737NG or A32X could work on a BBJ or ACJ respectively. Therefore, MX wouldn't be a huge factor.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
From a strict passenger point of view, I�d rather be in an ACJ, since it�s wider and has overall better cabin ergonomics.

Assuming a four abreast layout, I wouldn't really care about the difference. Pitch would matter a lot more.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineAmtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 6):
Assuming a four abreast layout, I wouldn't really care about the difference. Pitch would matter a lot more

Reference my previous post

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 4):
The Interior configuration is of no significance. These are corporate configured aircraft! Every airplane is different

THESE ARE NOT AIRLINERS!!!! They have 20 to 30 seats maximum. This 4 abreast configuration does not exhist, except in very rare aircraft.


User currently offlineTom12 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 1078 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7261 times:

Would the ACJ's wideness give it an advantage? In most business jets i wouldn't think that it would make much diffrence.

Tom



"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 7):

THESE ARE NOT AIRLINERS!!!! They have 20 to 30 seats maximum. This 4 abreast configuration does not exhist, except in very rare aircraft.

Did you bother to read the poster's question? We are discussing BBJs/ACJs configured in an all F layout, which typically results in around 48 seats, four abreast. We are not discussing your typical private interior!

[Edited 2006-07-11 17:54:03]


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineAmtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 9):
Did you bother to read the poster's question? We are discussing BBJs/ACJs configured in an all F layout, which typically results in around 48 seats, four abreast. We are not discussing your typical private interior

Take a look at Privatair website and you will see BBJ's with 28 seat configuration.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17038 posts, RR: 66
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 8):
Would the ACJ's wideness give it an advantage? In most business jets i wouldn't think that it would make much diffrence.

Only a comfort advantage. And it's not really a huge difference.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 10):
Take a look at Privatair website and you will see BBJ's with 28 seat configuration.

This is not the configuration of the aircraft used for airline operations. A319LRs have 48 seats, as to BBJs. BBJ2s have 56.

I once again refer you to the thread starter:

Quoting Wilax (Thread starter):

If you were to begin transatlantic flights, Privatair style, 48 luxury seats

and to the Privitair airline operations brochure:

http://www.privatair.com/_library/br...chures/Private_Airline_Service.pdf



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
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