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Topic: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Ual777contrail
Posted 2003-01-26 17:56:22 and read 3721 times.

I was looking through the database and came across these old PAN AM pictures of LHR.
The thing that strikes me is that they are narrow bodies, so my question is this.
Did PAN AM have a domestic operation in the UK?
Did they operate these flights daily? I was kind of shocked to see this small a narrow body over there.
How big was PAN AM's operation over there?


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Thanks.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: AirDD
Posted 2003-01-26 18:15:21 and read 3687 times.


PANAM had intra-European service between LHR-BRU & AMS
And German domestic service into FRA & Berlin
And possible other routes too.

They got this rights after WW II, no European airline was flying anymore...

UNITED bought the LHR routes, UA is still flying from AMS & BRU to LHR.

And Lufthansa bought the Inter German Service in 1990 or 1991.


airDD

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Garuda
Posted 2003-01-26 18:16:11 and read 3687 times.

I know Pan Am used to have intra-Europe flights... The bomb that downed the flight 103 on Lockerbie was originated in Frankfurt, it was carried on board PA's B727 from FRA to LHR, then tranferred to the B747.

I'm sure the had lots of routes from LHR, but i'm not sure what the cities they served.

JA

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Ual777contrail
Posted 2003-01-26 18:29:00 and read 3669 times.

didnt UNITED Also fly LHR-EDI? how many other US carriers had domestic ops in europe?


thanks for the response.

ual 777 contrail

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Ljungdahl
Posted 2003-01-26 18:44:14 and read 3655 times.

Ual777contrail,

the intra-Europe ops were not domestic, because Europe is built of many, independent, nations, which is not at all the same structure as USA.

I know that Pan Am operated 727 & 737, TWA operated 727, Delta operated 727 and United also operated 727 on intra-european flights.

Johan (Ljungdahl)

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Skyhawk
Posted 2003-01-26 19:07:33 and read 3635 times.

As a former Pan Amer, I can tell you that the routes that PanAm flew into and out of Germany were called their IGS routes(Intra German System). We flew into Stuttgart, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, amongst others. All with 737's, the inflight service(in anticipation of the question) was a plastic bag with the snack inside that the passengers collected as they got on. If they forgot, then they didn't have anything to eat. The beverage was served inflight and beer and wine was comp. From what I remember, 727's weren't the IGS flights. Until 1982 US citizens were allowed to be based in Berlin as Flight attendants when(in June of that year) the German government said that no longer would they allow US citizens take the job away from a German citizen. At that point all US nationals had to transfer from the Berlin base to a base here in the states.

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Clipper471
Posted 2003-01-26 19:39:50 and read 3588 times.

Another LHR route was to Stockholm for a time.

However... NONE OF THESE LHR ROUTES ALLOWED LOCAL TRAFFIC. All traffic was connecting from the US/Continental European flights.

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Clipper471
Posted 2003-01-26 19:42:47 and read 3587 times.

Further info on the routes operated from the LHR base... At the time of the sale of LHR routes to UAL PAA also trasferred routes from LHR to Amsterdam, Berlin, Brussels, Hamburg, Helsinki, Munich and Oslo.

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Crosswind
Posted 2003-01-26 22:49:30 and read 3498 times.

I believe Pan Am also operated European charter flights from Berlin with their B727s on weekends. I saw their B727 aircraft at Faro in Portugal on a number of occasions in the mid to late 1980s.

Regards
CROSSWIND

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Airchabum
Posted 2003-01-26 23:44:02 and read 3458 times.

Hi Clipper471

Re the point about not allowing local traffic, I think they did because my first scheduled flight was on Pan Am between LHR and FRA in 1984. We flew out on a 747 which was then going on to DEL or BOM, and flew back on a 737.

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Mariner
Posted 2003-01-27 00:10:52 and read 3435 times.

Clipper471

Actually, local traffic was allowed, certainly out of and in to Berlin.

The only western airlines allowed to fly from West Germany over East German airspace to and from Berlin were French, British and US, as the occupying powers.

It was a financial gold mine for Pan Am - and misery for the pax. The flights were constantly over-booked, and on three occasions (out of four) I couldn't get on flights I had booked from or to Berlin.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: ContinentalEWR
Posted 2003-01-27 00:43:31 and read 3409 times.

Neither UA nor PA flew LHR-EDI.

However, UA code shares with its Star Alliance partner, BD (BMI) to EDI from LHR.

ContinentalEWR

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: OA412
Posted 2003-01-27 04:47:36 and read 3331 times.

I can also vouch for the fact that PA flew LHR-FRA (at least for a time, anyway). I flew this particular leg in 1986 aboard an A-310.

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Tango-Bravo
Posted 2003-01-27 05:15:22 and read 3316 times.

The point made by ContinentalEWR concerning United flight numbers on the LHR-EDI route, evokes another point. The route was indeed operated by British Midland -- UA's codeshare with BD for connections from LHR to EDI as well as several other points within the U.K. predates the Star Alliance under which the arrangement continues today. At no point did any U.S. airline operate services within the U.K., even on an "international connecting traffic only/no local traffic" basis.

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: Panamair
Posted 2003-01-27 22:38:56 and read 3236 times.

Pan Am operated nonstop flights at varying points in the eighties from LHR to AMS, BRU, FRA, DUS, HAM, MUC, CPH, and FBU, whileTXL was served with one-stop service through HAM. At the time of the sale of the LHR slots to UA, only LHR to AMS, BRU, FRA, HAM, and MUC remained. Most of these were served with 727s and 737s except for FRA (multiple flights a day with a combination of 747s and 727s). PA could not carry local traffic on most of these routes except for the flights to FRA, HAM, and MUC.

FRA was another big hub, which not only had IGS service (as someone previously mentioned), but also nonstops to SVO, WAW, BUD, OTP, PRG, ATH, ARN, ZAG, BEG, DBV, IST, DEL, BOM, KHI, and even NBO for a short period. Most of these were served with 727s except for DEL/BOM/KHI (747s), and NBO (A310s).

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: MxCtrlr
Posted 2003-01-28 05:42:14 and read 3139 times.

Skyhawk,

PA operated IGS flights with 727-100's up until "Fast Eddie" (Acker) came on board and brought his ex-UAL, ex-QH (Air Florida) 737-200's with him (along with Mrs. Acker's astronomical lease rates). As a sidebar to this story, the QH 737 that went down in DCA (QH90) had "stolen" Pan Am parts on it that, without the crash, PA would have never known were stolen in the first place since that aircraft (N62AF) was slated to transfer to PA just 2 weeks later. It was strange that, as soon as Fast Eddie was run out of Dodge, his 737-200's went with him!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool

Topic: RE: OLD PAN Am In LHR
Username: American 767
Posted 2003-01-28 09:47:20 and read 3089 times.

Back in the late 80's, Pan Am flew A310's from LHR to BRU. But you're right, other that that, for a long time Pan Am flew 727's and 737-200's from LHR to BRU. I used to fly Pan Am quite a bit, I had always a 747-100 from JFK to LHR connecting on a 737-200 to BRU, if not a 737-200 a 727-200. My parents flew once on an A310 from LHR to BRU. Pan Am was in Terminal 3 in Heathrow. I remember very well.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium


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