Got a couple of questions. How many aicraft will be repainted by summer? and will they be putting ptvs in the 744s when they get repainted? because they could do with them.

What again?? The last livery change wasn't all that long ago. You'd think they'd have better things to spend money on, wouldn't you?

Sounds like re-painting the "TITANIC"!

The first repainted aircraft is due here in the coming week, I beleive.

And as has been said before, repainting won't be an extra expense to them because when an aircraft goes in for its D-check they strip the paint off anyway and have to paint it back on.

So instead of repainting the aircraft in the old colours, itll be painted in the new colours, and the new colours are likely to be simpler and therefore cheaper, which will SAVE United money.

Exactly, thats why Northwest is also repainting their planes.

Repainting the Titanic...interesting...

More like repainting the USS Cole...

United received a real whammy of a blow...but they've been (or are being) patched up...and will be back.

//// U N I T E D .... R I S I N G

I get so tired of this 'they must have better things to spend thier money on' crap....

When you're in bankruptcy, you can't do anything without the judges approval, so HE must be of the opinion that it's a good idea!

What do all of you naysayers want UA to do with it's money besides improve it's product? Paint jobs, new seats, TED are all marketing initiutives. My God, compared to the stiffs (Goodwin, etal) the current management team is a breath of fresh air.

UA is in the midst of a gut-wrenching cultural change for it's employees. Massive layoffs, VERY hefty pay cuts and being asked to work harder and assume more responsibilities. Many people don't like it (can you blame them?) but for the most part they understand that the survival of the company and thier jobs depend on everyone pitching in - the ones that don't understand probably won't be around much longer.

Does the repainted Star Alliance 767 for UA depict some of the new livery for United?

Thrust - from the photos I have seen, the engines are a brighter blue than the current livery...

V/F

Last I knew UAL no longer painted their own aircraft in-house. They contracted it out several years ago due to the 'HUGE' EPA requirements. OOh, and the current UAL livery is 12 years old. It was unvailed in a commercial for during the Super Bowl. The first a/c painted was a 747-400 done in AMA.

Well said, Ordpark!

United will not only have money saved by repainting planes in simpler colors, but also finishing the //// U N I T E D brand to be reflected off of its aircraft will make the brand shine.

Chris

EMBQA-
So if the people here are correct and the first plane is to be painted and rolled out this week, do you think we will see it in a commercial this during this super bowl? I know that a 30 second commerical cost like $8000 milllion-billion, but it was be cool to show off thier new c/s in front of a billion people.

No, I was just making a statment about the last time they painted their aircraft, it was released during the Super Bowl....Southwest did the same thing 2 years ago. UAL has no intent of painting their aircraft while in bankruptcy. As said above, the Judge in charge of this case would need to sign off on that, and I doubt they would with a negitive cash flow. Now, just after they get out of bankruptcy.....maybe. Just look at the average age of all the 'experts' here on .net that are claiming to know that UAL is going to do this...I see that as 14 yrs old. Heck, I have socks older then that...!!

Uhhh... EMBQA, I don't know if we're all communicating here. Are you claiming that UA is not coming up with a new livery? If so... right. We'll leave you in the dust on this one.

If not, then what are you saying in your last post?

R

I like the UA livery as it is today. They do not really need to change it

14 YEARS OLD!!!!!!

I WISH! - although I don't think I'd want to do High School again.....

And by the way, UA now has a Positive cash flow.....

They should have changed to this livery many years ago when they retired the "white" livery. But that's just my opinion.

Anybody have any Pics of the new livery, or does it just look so much like TED and Eurowhite that I would want to puke?

DLKAPA

"Anybody have any Pics of the new livery, or does it just look so much like TED and Eurowhite that I would want to puke?"

I have a hunch it will be similar to TED...so yeah, you're gonna probably wanna puke so get a bucket.

Yep, DLCentennial, UAFlagshipt44 has some mock-ups that are supposedly very close to what it will look like.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1363474

[Although, now after reading that thread I realize that you have seen it too.   ]

Regards,
F9Widebody

[Edited 2004-01-24 18:55:46]

Great. Another Eurowhite scheme coming into Denver. Now I have to clean the Puke off of my screen.

DLKAPA

The current livery is not bad at all, if a bit stuffy. The United Airlines script on the fuselage though is a tad old and not consistent with the U N I T E D lettering and the "ted" connection.

ContinentalEWR

Not quite eurowhite

UA744flagship at first had heard that it was eurowhite, but later he provided info that UA management had changed its mind and would instead be painting the aircraft with a blue belly and either a "cheatline" or "cheatstrip" of three-tone United blue.

That link provided above gives a good idea of what it may look like.

[Edited 2004-01-24 21:15:30]

IF there'll be a livery change. This is all speculation until United says otherwise.

"OOh, and the current UAL livery is 12 years old. It was unvailed in a commercial for during the Super Bowl."

These are incorrect statements. The current UA livery was unveiled January 11, 1993 (11 years ago) on a 744 flight leaving SFO at 11:45A bound for NRT (not during the Super Bowl, which incidentally was January 31, 1993).

Ord-

OOh my god, I miss counted 1 yr.....!! Shoot me.   I was remembering that the new UAL livery came out right before I graduated from A&P school, and it was not until later today that I looked at the issue date on my license and it was 1993. 11yrs ago. As for the unveiling.......if I remember, the first commercial showing the new colors was shown during the Super Bowl, that is what I was referring too. During my travels with my airline, I was put in charge of the over seeing of the painting, and it was during that time I met the 2 OSVM Managers from UAL that ran their program. I remember them telling that during the first 'gray' paint job, they where nearly living at the paint shop making sure that all the lay outs and masking where done correctly. They also told me that they had a very tight time line, as the aircraft HAD to be ready for filming of the new commercials. The one neat part of my travels was that I got to see the last 'white' UAL get painted to 'gray'..the first USAirways 767 get painted 'blue', the Continental DC-3 get painted...

The renderings as posted by UA744Flagship are pretty close to what's been proposed. He's done a good job capturing the info leaked to him by his buddies at United eventhough they've surely signed NDAs for this very thing.

But for what I do know, I can tell you that these imgaes aren't entirely accurate. So maybe there will still be an element of surprise left for all of us to enjoy if, as Airways6 says, United sees fit to change it at all.

A new livery, as UA744 has pointed out before, would be the crown jewel of United's corporate and brand identity. When at last it is updated, it will finally be aligned with all of the other materials, signage, and brand expressions that have been built up over the last 7 years. It was 1997 when United adopted their current logotype and corporate identity. And while it's essential that a solid business model be adopted coming out of Ch 11, it is also imortant to realize that things like livery, colors and logos are not merely cosmetic. These are very real signals to customers.

I would join everyone in welcoming the change. It would be very exciting. Anything to get rid of the oxidized gray, "classy" formality of the current pinstripe motif.

EMBQA
You are a fool and when you see the new livery your will feel even more stupid than you already do. I cant wait to see you eat your words. You must no nothing about the industry to think that it will cost UA more money to paint the aircraft. THEY WILL SAVE MONEY LIKE MANY OTHERS HAVE SAID. Now older does not mean wiser and you are a perfect example....

Trayfam, I take it you work for either UAL or Pentagram.   Thanks for your comments echoing the "brand harmoization" notion.

In any case, I don't believe there is any ill effect of me putting up previews... as this is an enthusiast forum, not many see it as credible, and the media hardly refers to it at all. It's not like we are reselling it or using it for material gain.

In fact, many brand managers would see this as free positive publicity. Which is why I believe my use of trademarked logos is being tolerated and I have no lawsuits on my back. I mean, word of mouth is what guerilla advertising is all about. Guerilla advertising is nice because it costs so little yet yields great results (see Ted campaign), however garnering an enthusiast following is even more valuable (and even cheaper -- free)...

NDAs do a good job of concealing names, which is why my sources will always remain anonymous.  


P.S. I forgot to answer your question re: the "lit up" tail concept in the other thread.

Basically, the "classic" U has never been overlayed on the modern, gradiated U before... doing so on the tail of my concept livery made it look like the classic U was "lit up" from behind... and the idea behind it was to show how the classic U, up front, was being revitalized by the U of the future, at back...



See what I mean? [Again, this is the design I claim credit over]

And this is the design "leaked" to me...






[Edited 2004-01-24 22:39:23]

UAL747DEN-

What the heck is your problem..? All I have said was:

a) UAL no longer paints their a/c in house.
b) The current gray paint livery is 11yrs old.
c) The first a/c painted was a 747-400.
d) That since UAL is still in Bankruptcy, the Judge will need to approve any expendatures.
e) During my travels with my airline, I met the 2 UAL OSVM Managers that run the paint program at UAL.

Where did your out burst come from.....?

[Edited 2004-01-24 22:48:00]

EMBQA:
you seem to have missed one comment that you made.................


UAL has no intent of painting their aircraft while in bankruptcy.

just a note!  

Best regards,
a340pilot

Well, I did leave out one statment, but since when does voicing ones own opinion rate being called an 'Fool' and 'Stupid'......? This is a FORM.......where we all can discuss our thoughts and opinions.........

[Edited 2004-01-25 00:33:34]

This is a FORM.......where we all can discuss our thoughts and opinions.........


No, it isn't.

It's a FORUM.  


Just kidding ya.  

EMBQA:

I agree with you, there is no need for you to be called a fool and stupid, But the point of that persons post WAS the fact that you said....."UAL has no intent of painting their aircraft while in bankruptcy. That and only that was what he was posting about and you knew it was, so you purposely left that out of your little list of things you said, and as for speaking freely on this forum, I believe you have the right to post.......But when questioned on your post, Stand-up and admit it! Its simple

Best regards,
a340pilot

What about eventual ptvs in 744 econ to accompany the new livery?

Very interesting to bring up a topic regarding United's state and how they shouldnt be spending money on new paint jobs. Had anyone read the post I sent in you would of read good news about Uniteds progress while in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection....

Just read this article on United Airlines And how they intend to delay the exit from Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection......
Sorry if this is OLD NEWS......

United Airlines parent UAL Corp. reported a net loss of $US124 million for October, including $US149 million in reorganisation expenses, and said it may delay exiting Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection.
It said positive cash flow during the month averaged $US7 million per day with an operating profit of $US60 million a $US300 million improvement compared to October 2002 - with passenger revenue up 9%.
UAL bankruptcy attorney James Sprayregen told a bankruptcy court that unresolved issues with aircraft leases and regional service provider Atlantic Coast Airlines could delay ending Chapter 11.
Atlantic Coast, which provides regional service as United Express, said it would start its own low cost carrier out of Washington's Dulles Airport with 25 Airbus A319s and A320s when its contract with United ends. Mesa Air Group has launched an unsolicited takeover offer for Atlantic Coast.
Aircraft lease negotiations, "could offset the timing" of the planned first half 2004 bankruptcy exit, Sprayregen said.

View Large View Medium

Photo © Mike Moores

Positive news if you ask me.  

The "leaked" scheme shown above reminds me of Varig's livery.

It looks strikingly similar to:

View Large View Medium

Photo © Timothy Feise

I think that orange in the stripe and/or silver instead of the white would set it apart from the others out there. Hopefully I will get a good opportunity to evaluate all of UA's liveries as I pass though DEN on my way to LAX in four weeks.  

__TJ__

It takes a looooong time to paint all the planes in a fleet. I remember flying on a "old white" 737 in the middle of 1998. If they introduced the first repainted plane in 1993, then that is 5 solid years. And that was during better financial times. I am guessing we can probably see the current fleet completed in 2009. Would you guys agree?


Also, I know TED is painted in Mississippi. Greenville to be exact. I have no clue where that is on the bayou, but thats where TED #3 (N493UA) is leaving from tomorrow headed up to Chicago. Should touch down around 10am.

By the way, there is a great time-lapse video on the painting of TED #1 on the UA employee website. Has it been posted on this forum yet? If not, can anyone post it here for me if I send it to them? Thanks!

Jc5280, it's up on my website.
http://www.instantboard.com/users/imkeww/viewtopic.php?t=101

Yes, it will take a long time to repaint them... unless Tilton decides to pull a Gordo Bethune and accelerate the schedule as an expense.

I remember being at ORD in 1998 and still seeing quite a few white Uniteds- mainly planes on their way out like 727s, 737-200s and DC-10s, but I do recall seeing 757s and 733s in white too.

I don't know much about United if they still are taking new planes, but if new planes were delivered with the new colors and the paint was cheaper and when planes got whatever check that is that strips them of their paint and they have to be repainted, it might save them money in the long run then continuing to keep using all that grey paint and the greater amount of colors- UA currently uses about 4 different shades of blue- under belly, two different for stripes on tail plus the blue U, they use grey, red and orange. I don't think the new design would have as many colors as that "leaked" 777, probably more like one or two shades of blue and white.

EMBQA - I meant no offense to you by my post. I just wanted to clairify when United unveiled the current scheme. Speaking of which, shortly after it was launched United had a three-page article in their Hemispheres in-flight magazine detailing how the gray scheme was developed. It's a very interesting article that I tore out and saved. In a small photo they show a few people looking over a huge wall covered with literally hundreds of livery possibilities. It's hard to see them, but some were far more wild than the final result. I also called United PR to request a press kit which I still have. It includes research on how travelers preferred the gray scheme 3-1 on many characteristics (such as "professional" and "safe") vs. the orange/red/blue scheme. Although I like the gray scheme it seemed to fall out of favor when Wolf left United in 1994 simply beacuse he commissioned it. I worked for Leo Burnett at the time (United's advertising agency back then) on the United account in account management and can tell you our creative department had already been doing some design work to have the livery changed.

Stephen Wolf left UAL and went over to USAirways and changed their livery too...... Notice any similarities..?   Solid top, solid bottom, separated by stripes..!! When I was in AMA with the guys from UAL OVSM, I met the Engineer that did the lay-outs for the gray scheme and she was in AMA to start the first lay-outs for 'Star Alliance' program. Somewhere here at home I have pictures of the last UAL 747-400 getting the 'Gray' scheme, but they are of poor quality. As for the number of colors in the logo..? If I remember right, the guys in our paint shop (we do a lot of Express jets)said there are something like 14 different colors in the UAL scheme.....including placards.

[Edited 2004-01-25 23:04:20]

UAL744-

That is a COOL video.......!!! Too bad it doesn't off 'Smell O' Vision'...that stripper is NASTY.....!!!

Well here are the color counts I can see

Current:
11 colors as far as I can count. 5 blues, 2 reds, 2 grays, white, black.
UAL's Own Livery:
7 colors: 2 blues, red, silver, white, gray (STAR), and black (STAR).
Leaked Livery:
8 colors, white, gray, black, 5 blues.

It will be a cost savings.

That video was awsome, How do they remove the paint? is it by chemicals, or do they chip it off, or is it sanded? On the last part of that video, what was the guy doing on that little square on the front?


Best regards,
a340pilot

How long does it take to paint ONE plane? I guess less time for a 737 than for a 747, but how much?

Also, what happens to the UA Express fleet? Repainted as well? UA won't be paying for that, will they?

Ok, news to me that UA was repainting.. Yeah where have I been. But if it looks like those flightsim models, then it looks great. I don't fancy the dark schemes of UA and US that much. I think a plane should look great in the sky, and UA and US, aren't even readily recognizable by far, except the fact that you know the two airlines have dark schemes so it must be one of them...

That new Logo is fab though.. Gotta love it... Lets see what the planes look like when they come out...

I vastly prefer the dark liveries of US and UA to the lighter or white ones.

As such, I really like the new livery that has been proposed here.

N

The new livery is okay in my opinion but I do hate the light blue stripes.

Adam

FYI......Here are the '14' colors that make up the current UAL Livery taken right from a blueprint........BAC is a Boeing Aircraft Color designation number

Main Colors-
BAC7309 White Accents
BAC2558 Orange Stripe
BAC1795 Red Stripe
BAC50902 Blue Stripe
BAC1586 Logo Shield Red
BAC5704 Logo Shield Blue
BAC707 Wings, Gray
BAC50901 Belly, Blue
BAC70396 Crown, Gray

Placards-
FS595-13538 Yellow
FS595-37038 Gray
FS595-37875 Black
FS595-17038 White
K7129 Red


[Edited 2004-01-27 22:37:28]

[Edited 2004-01-27 22:38:42]

EMBQA - We're all asking you to contact your friends at the paint hanger and find out what's going on with the new livery!

It's been 4+ years since I was out in AMA, so I wish I could help....but..