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Topic: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Ord777
Posted 2004-02-19 05:23:51 and read 4497 times.

Hope this hasn't been discussed too many times before. Anyway, I was wondering why SWA hasn't begun service to Denver. I'm sure there must be some specific reasons because it seems like a natural choice for the airline. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2004-02-19 05:28:27 and read 4472 times.

Costs. The landing fees and rental rates on space at DEN are extremely high, and higher than SWA wants to pay.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2004-02-19 05:52:32 and read 4410 times.

Not only landing fees and rental rates are ridiculous at DEN like OPNLguy stated, WN didnt see much benefit to DEN flying. UA and F9 already dominate DEN and flying there didnt make much of a difference to WN since they wanted to fly to smaller airports that were compatable to their 20 min turn time.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Air1727
Posted 2004-02-19 05:58:40 and read 4381 times.

Actually Southwest used to fly to Denver; however, with the fierce competition between United and Continental at the time at Stapleton, plus the delays, it was not worth the headache for their business model and pulled out.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: F9Widebody
Posted 2004-02-19 06:00:56 and read 4366 times.

Ord777, my friend, the real question is why haven't they come to COSBig grin

Regards,
F9W

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Planenutz
Posted 2004-02-19 06:18:14 and read 4306 times.

SWA did serve DEN at one point but withdrew because of the high cost of doing business a the airport and because of air traffic delays. The same reason that SWA left SFO.

SWA has only ever left four markets in it's history: DEN, SFO, DTW (re-entered later), and Beaumont, TX. Their reason for leaving DTW was the result of a rather nasty battle with NW. When SWA decided to enter the DTW marlek, the only available gates were already leased by NW. NW subleased gates to SWA at rates 18 times higher than NW's costs. NW refused to re-negotiate the leases and SW couldn't force the airport to terminate its leases with NW (NW has an agreement with DTW Airport that because of its heavy investment in the new airport, its the only carrier that can maintain dominate hub status). So SWA withdrew service and re-entered when NW's financial status resulted in it's giving up leases at DTW and therefore SWA could lease directly from the airport.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: IndustrialPate
Posted 2004-02-19 06:26:38 and read 4270 times.

Planenutz,

Are you thinking of NK? WN served DET but left for DTW because of DET's inadequacies & the airport's/Detroit mayor's empty promises to fix them. They moved into the "A" gates at DTW where they've been ever since... NW haver had any control over the "A" gates nor did NW lease those gates to WN. However, NW did sublease random gates to NK... NK claimed they were being raped but never gave figures, so nobody really knows.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Tcfc424
Posted 2004-02-19 06:37:17 and read 4232 times.

From what I have read/heard, the blood between WN and DEN is long standing. They flew into Stapleton, and when DIA was proposed, there were supposed to be some frills for WN and lower fees, however when Denver changed that, Herb balked and vowed never to fly to DEN again.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Air1727
Posted 2004-02-19 06:56:58 and read 4198 times.

Southwest pulled out of 6 airports in its lifetime.

Houston Intercontinental - left in 1972 to HOU; reinstated 1980
Beaumont/Port Arthur - left after 18 months of unprofitable ops
Denver - left for reasons states above
Jackson Hole - seasonal service Dec 85 to Apr 86 from HOU; sat only
San Francisco - left because of severe delay expenses
Detroit City - started service in 88; all ops consolidated to DTW by 93

A total of four cities were removed from the system.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-19 06:57:40 and read 4194 times.

Planenutz
In your post you I believe you are trying to give the vibe that WN is better than DEN and that is why they left. I would like to make it very clear that WN would love to have service to DEN however DEN is not an airport that caters to the trash that is a Southwest passenger. DEN has I believe at this time the highest fees of any US airport and can do that because it is the best facility in the US. DEN is full of upper class shopping and restaurants and seems like a high class shopping center. Passengers flying WN usually care nothing about any of this and just want to get to where they are going and that is why DEN would not give WN any lower fees. (Because they did not want WN customers more than any other airline) And that is why WN doesn't fly here.
THAT BEING SAID, I do think that WN has a GREAT business plan and if I owned an airline I would want it to be WN! I will fly WN if I am going on a short hop and it is a lot less money than the others, but we all know that most of the trash that flies does their flying on Southwest (Just watch Airline)

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: SR 103
Posted 2004-02-19 06:58:07 and read 4191 times.

Planenutz,

Southwest never withdrew from DTW. They withdrew from DET (Detroit City) and it had nothing to do with NW. I am currently writing a substantial paper on Southwest for an Aviation consultant and am pretty well versed on Southwest's history and failed cities. The four cities that WN has pulled out of are SFO/DEN/DET/BPT(Beaumont, TX).

The reason they pulled out of DET was also as IP stated above, due to runway extension issues. You can look up a brief history of Southwest at their corporate site if you don't beleive us. The link is http://www.ifly737.com

SR 103

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: FlyABR
Posted 2004-02-19 07:00:24 and read 4180 times.

what is keeping southwest out of MSP...other than NWA hates them...

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: IndustrialPate
Posted 2004-02-19 07:09:31 and read 4151 times.

UAL747DEN,

Do you really believe that WN doesn’t serve DEN because people living & traveling to DEN are wealthy enough to have other choices?  Innocent Then please explain to me how F9 has been able to survive for a decade -- I'd love to hear your response. "Duh, well, nobody in DEN flies F9 -- all of F9's traffic in DEN is merely connecting. Because we're rich and perfer UA." Some will argue that WN offers a higher class of service than UA...

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: IndustrialPate
Posted 2004-02-19 07:12:57 and read 4138 times.

what is keeping southwest out of MSP...other than NWA hates them...

How is NW keeping WN out of MSP? WN serves DTW but isn't overly successful - in fact, DTW is one of the few markets in which WN has shrank over the past several years... the Saturday service to LAS that begin in the fall got the ax pretty quickly...

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-19 07:18:08 and read 4116 times.

IndustrialPate
F9 has a very high standard of service and the prices on F9 are much higher than WN. F9 and UA have very comparable levels of service in coach and there prices are about the same in most markets. Now you must be crazy if you think that WN has a "higher Class" of service than UA. WN Doesn't try to have better service than UA or any other airline for that matter. They sell cheap tickets and give the cheapest service possible and that is why they make money. They also enable a lot of people who would otherwise not fly to do so on Southwest due to there cheap tickets and that is why they get a lot of trash flying them. Now what I was saying is DEN will not give WN a break on the fees that they charge due to the fact that the airport doesn't need WN to fly here.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: BoingGoingGone
Posted 2004-02-19 07:19:12 and read 4115 times.

WN lives cheap and DEN costs too much to operate out of. Simple as that.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: IndustrialPate
Posted 2004-02-19 07:28:15 and read 4102 times.

UAL747DEN,
Any reasonable person should be able to read your post and laugh his/her ass off. According to you, the reason WN doesn't serve DEN is because everybody there is rich enough to fly better airlines & all WN would do is bring poor people to the city. Absolutely hilarious!

And BTW, only a fool would deny that DEN's high costs did not contribute to UA's woes -- hell, even UA admits that!

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: BoingGoingGone
Posted 2004-02-19 07:33:31 and read 4083 times.

UAL747.... Did you forget that the Denver area is loaded with washed up tree huggin' hippies? All wealthy... Riiiiiiighhht...

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Ssides
Posted 2004-02-19 07:34:13 and read 4083 times.

Let's not forget that Denver only has its airport because its former mayor became US Transportation Secretary and was able to save a grotesquely over-budget, behind-schedule airport that ended up costing the taxpayers billions more than they bargained for.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Alphascan
Posted 2004-02-19 07:36:52 and read 4072 times.

F9's traffic distribution is:

33% originate at DEN
33% DEN is destination
33% connecting

-Jeff Potter, CEO Frontier Airlines, 1/29/04

Will get a little more complicated in April.

I will fly WN .....but we all know that most of the trash that flies does their flying on Southwest (Just watch Airline)

ROFL



Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-19 07:37:57 and read 4070 times.

IndustrialPate
Please point out to me where I said anything about DEN's high costs and UA. I did not say that everyone in Denver is rich and WN would bring the poor. I said that DEN has high fees and that they weren't going to give WN a break so WN would not make any money operating flights to DEN. WN has said in many interviews that the price of a cab in Denver to get from the airport to the city would cost more than their ticket price and that their customers are not the type of customers willing to pay that. Now I did try to point out that DEN is a very expensive airport and that WN is an extremely cheap airline that caters to they type of person looking for a cheap flight. DEN Would not benefit from those type of passengers coming through the airport and again that is why they did not give WN any kind of special deal.
On a side note, almost every other US airline operates flights to DEN and non of them get any special deal on the fees, so it should be obvious why WN doesn't come to DIA when they did used to fly to Stapleton...

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-19 07:43:34 and read 4057 times.

BoeingGoingGone
Again where did I say that? And you are wrong the Denver area is one of the most economically rich cities in the country. Denver is the telecomm hub of the United States. If Denver is such a bad city why are there so many international flight here per day compared to other cities of Denver's magnitude???

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: BoingGoingGone
Posted 2004-02-19 08:11:33 and read 4031 times.

UAL give it up. I lived in Denver for 7 years. Their financial stature is no where near other cities such as San Diego, Chicago, Madison, WI, Minneapolis. Yeah. Madison.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-19 08:23:47 and read 4008 times.

BoeingGoingGone
Im not surprised by your post, this is the same junk that you always post. The members here have just learned to not listen to anything that comes out of your mouth. I think you need to look at the actual statistic's before typing trying to trash Denver.....

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: BoingGoingGone
Posted 2004-02-19 08:35:21 and read 3987 times.

Ummm... Yeah whatever. Breathe in a little more of that smog layer that's hanging around.

[Edited 2004-02-19 08:42:01]

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2004-02-19 08:41:54 and read 3978 times.

DEN is full of upper class shopping and restaurants and seems like a high class shopping center.

You have got to be kidding yourself. Do realize that Denver's upper class shopping and resturaunts cannot even hold a candle to that in Los Angeles, San Francisco, or Miami, and Southwest serves all three metros. That is just a ridiculous statement. It has nothing to do with why Southwest does not serve Denver.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-19 11:06:19 and read 3913 times.

MAH4546
For you information DEN charges higher fees than all of the places that you mentioned. The point was that WN wanted DEN to give them a special deal on the fees, they thought that they shouldn't have to pay as much as other carriers DEN didn't see a good reason why WN shouldn't have to pay as much as the other carriers so they wouldn't drop the prices and WN left. Now my point was that if WN was bringing something to the airport DEN might have given them a better deal. If DEN didn't already have 2 airlines using the airport as a hub they probably would have needed WN, but with every airline in the US serving DEN along with our 2 hubs WN wasn't going to bring any additional money to the airport and got shut out. Now to add on your comment please tell me what LAX, SFO, or MIA have that DEN does not? They are all old rundown airports and most would agree with me that DEN is a much nicer airport. Have you ever been to DEN???

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Goingboeing
Posted 2004-02-19 15:36:45 and read 3873 times.

Denverites apparently must have TV. F9 has TV. Therefore, they are "higher quality" than Southwest, and there success in Denver is assured. But as for the "quality" of people who must have TV...have you actually watched TV lately? Heck...that bachelor may be wearing a tux, but he's about as sleazy as they come. Same for the bachelorettes.

UAL747DEN - you're right about the rundown airports...That's why the last tiime I needed to go to San Francisco, I flew into Denver instead. I would venture to suggest that should UAL need just a tad more cost reductions to emerge from Chapter 11, they might just tell Denver that they want the rents to come down (I guess that would qualify them as a "low rent" airline), or else they'll pull out of Denver. IF the largest tenent pulls up stakes, that purty little airport - Pena's palace - might start to find themselves needing all the money they can get....heck...they might even make Southwest an offer they can't refuse.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2004-02-19 16:59:36 and read 3799 times.

>>>SWA has only ever left four markets in it's history: DEN, SFO, DTW (re-entered later), and Beaumont, TX. Their reason for leaving DTW was the result of a rather nasty battle with NW.

To reiterate, that's not the way it was re: Detroit. We started ops at DET, and it was a very peformance-restricted airport with a short runway, The runway was also narrower than most (100 ft wide versus the normal 150 ft) so that imposed my more stringent crosswind limitations, and when those occurred, we diverted to DTW. Then we started service to DTW (the diversions, when they occurred, went more smoothly). After unmet promises re: DET's improvement/expansion, we yanked the plug on DET and consolidated everything at DTW. NWA had nothing to do with it.


As far as SWA having left DEN (Stapleton) back in the 1980s, it had to do with the ATC delays that frequently occurred because of the centerline separation of 35L and 35R in IMC conditions, and the effect of those delays on the rest of the SWA system. The loads from DEN to ABQ and PHX were usually pretty good, as I recall, and had we stayed in DEN and added more destinations, I think those loads would have been just as good, or better, since both UA and CO were pretty "high-cost" way back then.

Once Stapleton had been replaced with the much more expensive new airport, the costs of operating there were just too great compared to other airport costs in the SWA system. Theoretically, SWA might have -considered- operating at the new airport (before it was done), but once all the problems and delays at DIA caused the costs to increase even more (remember the baggage system?) there was just no way.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: N766UA
Posted 2004-02-20 22:52:05 and read 3640 times.

UAL747DEN: Are you serious? High fees are charged at DEN because of all the construction that's been going on, not just because they can charge them. Also, I dunno when you flew WN last but it's clear your vision is impaired. "Trash" does not fly WN, in fact about 70% of the last flight I was on was businessmen. You're crazy if you think Southwest flying from DEN would bring in a "lower class" of person. Heck, F9 is by no means a high class airline itself. And who the hell are you to say why Denver makes certain decisions? Were you in the meeting when they said "Let's not give Southwest a break, they only bring hobos to the airport."

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Swacle
Posted 2004-02-20 23:30:15 and read 3576 times.

UAL747DEN

DEN is not an airport that caters to the trash that is a Southwest passenger

If UA's product is sooo much better, then why is your company in Ch. 11 and losing a billion dollars a year? Its this simple: WN delivers a consistent product to its customers, has some of the best people in the world, and therefore has one of the most loyal customer bases in the industry. Our level of service is low--no one is going to deny that--but that doesn't make us a second class airline, and that most definitely does NOT mean we attract any more "trash", as you so nicely put it, than any other airline. Last I checked most of the majors match WN's lowest advanced purchase fares and therefore all airlines seem to be equal opportunity for the local trash. What makes WN a successful airline with the loyal customers it has is simple: consistent product, lower fares (don't check advanced purchase, check any fare from 14 days in...I guarantee WN WILL WIN!!), and a great staff.

Think about it, man, before you make an ass of your self again.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Gigneil
Posted 2004-02-20 23:34:54 and read 3568 times.



UAL give it up. I lived in Denver for 7 years. Their financial stature is no where near other cities such as San Diego, Chicago, Madison, WI, Minneapolis. Yeah. Madison.


This is a false statement in its entirety. Chicago may offer a higher "financial stature" but Denver beats the others handily.

UAL747DEN - your comments are pointless. Keep them to yourself.

N

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2004-02-21 00:06:29 and read 3511 times.

>>>Swacle

While I have respect for people's right to their own opinions (even when they diverge from mine) arguing with UAL747DEN about his statement is pretty pointless. I mean, that kind of opinion can't be substaniated or quantified, any more than one can say that Airline "A" has better swizzle sticks (or prettier F/As) than airline "B", i.e. it's all in the eye of the beholder a more a matter of personal perception than fact.

The original question posed in this thread was why SWA wasn't at DEN, and I think the point has been made more than once that it was becuse of the high costs associated with oft-delayed opening of the expensive new airport. Like an increasing number of threads on a.net of late, it seems, this one has strayed far from the original topic and also become a meaningless "tastes-great!" versus "less-filling!" lite beer argument.

Next topic....

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Yanksn4
Posted 2004-02-21 00:15:06 and read 3486 times.

As long as United Airlines and Frontier Airlines are alive, then Denver International Airport dosn't need Southwest Airlines. First, where can you now put Southwest Airline's gates? Concourse A and C are pretty filled up, and United Airlines would never allow Southwest to take any gates on Concourse B. If you are looking for a low-cost airline to fly on into or out of Denver, then you have Frontier Airlines, America West Airlines, Ted Airlines, and Spirit Airlines.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Jmy007
Posted 2004-02-21 00:30:34 and read 3423 times.

Working with selling flights, day in and day out, DIA, with all the high taxs, landing fees, etc, is not expensive to fly into by any stretch of the imgianation.
Esp. with all the airlines. 2 hub airlines (F9 and UA) and other carriers. Depending on where you are flying from, and what time of the week, prices into Denver are great.

I don't care if Southwest comes back, there is already great air service for Denver at great prices already, and IMHO better product, than WN

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2004-02-21 00:37:18 and read 3394 times.

Also WN started service to DTW before the short lived service to DET was started and stopped.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2004-02-21 00:38:40 and read 3392 times.

Another reason WN may not do DIA is that it is TOOOOOO far from the Denver market areas where most people live. Add the time it takes to get to DIA, along with the 1-2 hours you apparently must get to check in on a NW flight to get a good seat, along with very high fees, then no wonder NW won't serve DIA.
But why don't WN serve COS? Pacific Western did a pretty good voulme of business, with those colorful planes until majors hurt them. Does COS have wind shear problems like Stapleton had? Are there runway set up issues like Detroit city airport had? Ops costs/fees high at COS?

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Yanksn4
Posted 2004-02-21 00:47:04 and read 3369 times.

LTBEWR, do you mean Southwest Airlines instead of Northwest Airlines? If you mean Northwest, then check your facts. Northwest Airlines does serve Denver International Airport, and I don't think they are planning to move out.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Ssides
Posted 2004-02-21 00:49:18 and read 3373 times.

Distance doesn't seem to be that big of an issue for WN in many cases. For example, they don't mind serving MHT and PVD, but avoid BOS. They serve BWI, but not DCA. They serve PBI and FLL, but not MIA. They serve SJC and OAK, but not SFO. They serve ISP, but not JFK, LGA, or EWR.

Of course, you could also point to other examples of closer-in airports, such as MDW, DAL, or HOU, but I think the evidence shows that distance from the city center is not that much of a consideration for WN.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Gigneil
Posted 2004-02-21 01:16:07 and read 3330 times.

But why don't WN serve COS? Pacific Western did a pretty good voulme of business, with those colorful planes until majors hurt them.

Lets be clear. Nobody hurt WP but WP management. They were doing great until the new idiot moved them to Denver.

Does COS have wind shear problems like Stapleton had?

There is obviously some shear, but its not nearly as bad as the mountain towns, and not as "problematic" as Stapletons were.

Are there runway set up issues like Detroit city airport had?

Colorado Springs has three beautiful runways, including a "brand new" (1995) 13,500 ft runway that could easily accomodate an A380, and older but still well maintained 11,000 ft runway, and the oldest is a bit over 8,000 ft.

The two long runways are aligned N/S in the best direction for wind along the Front Range.

Ops costs/fees high at COS?

Colorado Springs' commercial terminal is exactly the same age as DEN, with a newer East concourse that was built for MAX but never used. I'd imagine its pricey, but COS was completed well under budget.

N

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Jmy007
Posted 2004-02-21 01:16:23 and read 3328 times.

LTBEWR said

"Another reason WN may not do DIA is that it is TOOOOOO far from the Denver market areas where most people live. Add the time it takes to get to DIA, along with the 1-2 hours you apparently must get to check in on a NW flight to get a good seat, along with very high fees, then no wonder NW won't serve DIA."

A matter of perspective. From CBD of Denver, it about a 25 mintue drive via I-70 and pena blvd.
As far Away as Boulder it takes 45 mintues vis NW parkway/e470.
It not that far from the vast majority of folks who live along the front range.
Even if one lives in Highland ranch, they can hop on E470 and be at the airport in 40 mintues.
I don't by the argument that it is too far out. Yes, by most standards, it is far away, but not to far. Check in is quick, security doesn't take long at all.
One can park at long term parking, check in be through security just over half hour, (of course depending on time of day!  Smile

DIA is a great airport, we really don't need WN.  Big grin

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2004-02-21 01:42:04 and read 3297 times.

>>>Also WN started service to DTW before the short lived service to DET was started and stopped.

Nope.

See messages #5, #6 #8 #10 and #28 in this thread...

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Scottb
Posted 2004-02-21 01:50:59 and read 3277 times.

I'm not sure I'd call fares to and from DEN "great," though they are not as high as they would be if UA were the only hub carrier at DEN. F9's average fares from DEN tend to be somewhere between comparable and 50% higher than WN's average fares for similar non-stop stage lengths.

With nearly the highest airport operating costs in the industry (that make PIT look like a bargain), as well as two airline hubs, it's unlikely that WN will enter DEN anytime soon. There are simply too many other opportunities for them which will make more money.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: SafetyDude
Posted 2004-02-21 01:52:57 and read 3265 times.

The simple word Frontier cannot get out of my mind  Big grin

-Will

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Freshlove1
Posted 2004-02-21 05:14:48 and read 3206 times.

High costs and delays in DEN??, but yet they go into PHL. Do they know that PHL is notorious for ATC/WX delays 2/3 of the year??? They may second guess themselves once the ontime preformance numbers begin to drop and the cancellations begin to rise. I'm sure they will start out alright but in the long run I believe the service will be just average.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: JumboBumbo
Posted 2004-02-21 05:29:53 and read 3180 times.

BoingGoingGone:
UAL747.... Did you forget that the Denver area is loaded with washed up tree huggin' hippies? All wealthy... Riiiiiiighhht...

What childish garbage... after about 1990 Denver was full of nothing but Yuppies with cell phones, SUVs, and cookie cutter houses in the suburbs from California and Texas. Boulder is now nothing but Trustafarian rich kids going to CU-is-college-enough-to-keep-daddy's-money-coming, and Aspen is full of 7 million dollar homes owned by Texan "business men" who should be in jail for knowingly ruining decent people's chances at a comfortable retirement.

UAL747DEN... being a native of Colorado I can say that Denver is NOT the "high class shopping" mecca you believe it to be. Yes, it has a few "lifestyles" malls with a couple big name anchor stores, but North Cherry Creek is no Rodeo Drive.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: F9Widebody
Posted 2004-02-21 06:07:29 and read 3151 times.

UAL747DEN... being a native of Colorado I can say that Denver is NOT the "high class shopping" mecca you believe it to be. Yes, it has a few "lifestyles" malls with a couple big name anchor stores, but North Cherry Creek is no Rodeo Drive.

Are we sure he wasn't talking aobut the airport?

Regards,
F9W

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: UAL747DEN
Posted 2004-02-21 07:13:44 and read 3113 times.

JumboBumbo
I was talking about the airport. I would never conceder the city of DENVER to be any sort of shopping meca!

FreshLove1
Your right DEN is not known for delays anymore. We just completed the largest runway in the world so planes can land in most of the weather that we get here.

Swacle
That is a funny little comment! The reason UAL is in Cahp.11 is because they offered to much service! They gave the customer more than they could afford to be doing for them. Now if you think that WN and UA are the same type of airline you need to do some more research. I never said that WN was a bad airline I just said that it is the bare bones of an airline and you pay little and you get little. The airline gets you from point A to point B and if that is what you want then fly WN, if you want service then fly someone else. I would love to see WN start service in COS I think it would be great they could afford to operate there and COS would fill the planes, they are just not good for DEN and DEN isn't good for them... GROW UP

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: I LOVE EWR
Posted 2004-02-22 21:48:25 and read 3023 times.

This is VERY funny!!



Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Cmckeithen
Posted 2004-02-22 21:56:34 and read 3004 times.

F9 is there. A LCC.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2004-02-23 05:00:48 and read 2910 times.

OPNLguy

Having grown up in the MI area my whole lofe and bing in the travel industry I do know when and where WN started service first, and it was DTW followed by DET.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2004-02-23 16:05:25 and read 2845 times.

Given the steep landing fees and the fact DEN is WAY out of town, small wonder why WN is not interested in flying there.

However, I think WN may be interested in flying in and out of Colorado Springs (COS) within the next 18 months. There is good O & D traffic year-round (year-round resorts, lots of high-tech industries in Colorado Springs, and the Air Force Academy) there, plentiful gates and space for WN operations there, the ability to capture passengers from the southern Denver suburbs, and of course, the huge amount of winter resort traffic. And the runways are long enough that WN could fly a full load between COS and ISP easily if needed.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2004-02-23 16:15:11 and read 2818 times.

Luv2fly

I stand corrected. Rather than trust my memory any further, I checked with schedule planning this morning, and we did indeed start DTW first (6-4-87) and ran DET from July 1988 to September 1993.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: B757capt
Posted 2004-02-23 16:15:45 and read 2824 times.

Guys I can believe that you at attacking each other about this. From my experience I can say that an Airline likes to look at a city where they will make money. If they fly there DON"T make money its simple- THEY LEAVE. Obiviously DEn wasn't the money maker at the time. My question is rather then pull out of DEN in total did they look at serving other airports? For example a small less congested- Centennial or Jeffco? Just a question?

[Edited 2004-02-23 16:16:23]

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2004-02-23 16:26:29 and read 2796 times.

OPNLguy

I to was rechecking my facts, tho I remember flying WN when they first offered service from DTW to MDW for only $9.00 each way, and that included the taxes, in 1987 and I remember going to a function for the new service to DET and it was after I had actually flown them.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2004-02-23 16:41:40 and read 2773 times.

What was throwing me was that I seemed to recall having to divert from DET (due to the easily exceeed crosswind limits we had there due to 15/33 only being a 100 feet wide) and going to DTW and having had to use someone else to handle us since we didn't fly there yet. Obviously, I've confused that diversion situation with that of another, since it's quite clear that DTW service pre-dated DET service, and any DET-DTW diversions would have been handled by SWA folks...

They say the memory is the first thing to go, and I forget what the second one is....  Big grin

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2004-02-23 16:47:10 and read 2764 times.

Not a problem as a lot of others had remembered it the same way and I was beginnings to think hey maybe I am wrong here. Tho I was wracking my brain trying to get it right. Also if you work for WN it would be nice on there web site to have a time line of when and where they started up service? Also even pulled out my copy of Nuts to see if I could find the answer.

Topic: RE: Why No Southwest At Denver
Username: AATripleseven
Posted 2004-02-23 17:02:21 and read 2740 times.

I am SO tired of being constantly saying that "trash" flies Southwest. Here's a neat idea that will help settle the stereotype:

I will take pictures of people waiting in boarding areas and standing in line to check-in for flights with major airlines and blackout any indicators which would show what airline they are flying (ticket jackets, logos, etc).

After looking at the pictures, everyone was must guess which airline they are flying. Doubt anyone could tell a difference.

Not sure what kind of fantasy land some of us are living in, but WAKE UP.

AATripleseven


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