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Topic: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Aussie747
Posted 2004-05-15 16:10:42 and read 3744 times.


From CH-Aviation
http://www.luchtzak.be/article4323.html

So it appears LX has delayed in joining One World. I think I could see this coming with the joining date being constantly delayed.

Has this something to do with recent problems with BA ,it's own financial situation or a little of both?

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Poh2
Posted 2004-05-15 18:31:16 and read 3671 times.

just to make it easier for everybody...

http://www.luchtzak.be/article4323.html

Aussie: just add < and > around the link...

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: YUL332LX
Posted 2004-05-15 21:40:33 and read 3609 times.

... and LH is still interested in LX

"(Swiss) made a decision to go with oneworld. That is fine. Now we compete," Lufthansa Chairman and Chief Executive Wolfgang Mayrhuber said on the sidelines of a symposium...

"I think we had a very thorough discussion with Swiss management before and they know our position and I have said this position has not changed," Mayrhuber told journalists. "I think the ball is in their court," he added.
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/05/1084537699.html

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Donder10
Posted 2004-05-15 21:42:31 and read 3593 times.

Surely Star's position in central Europe is starting to become uncompetitive?

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Supersonic78
Posted 2004-05-16 02:01:13 and read 3508 times.

i thought this topic was alredy discussed, but anyway... the process got stopped because BA and LX can't find a solution for the integration of LX's frequent flyer program (Swiss Travel Club)....

furthermore they got cheated by BA they say in the newpapers....

and the rumours about cooperation with LH persist, now more then ever as the new CEO has personal contacts to LH...

we will see, its gonna be interesting anyway  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: 744
Posted 2004-05-16 09:22:57 and read 3389 times.

What is the dispute between LX and BA regarding Passenger Data? What is it all about that LX is not willing to share with BA?

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: ANstar
Posted 2004-05-16 11:25:43 and read 3351 times.

Part of the orginal agreement with BA (and BA's line of credit) was that LX would merge their FF rpogram into the BA Exec Club (Much like Austrian has done with Lufthansa)

Swiss agreed to this last year and now it seems they want to go back on the deal. they've had the cash and now don't want to follwo through.

Well thats how I see it

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: FinnWings
Posted 2004-05-16 11:38:24 and read 3357 times.

I'm a little bit confused about all these LX rumors to delay entering in the OneWorld...

Finnair and Swiss has already very extensive code-share network, you can earn full AY plus miles from LX flights and vice versa. Finnair just added one daily flight from HEL to ZRH as feeding LX network + offer good connection from Switzerland to Finnair's Asian routes. So their cooperative is very intensive and I believe situation is same with all other OneWorld airlines except BA.

I believe that LX hasn't any problems with OneWorld the only problem is just BA. I understand that very well... BA is problem for some other airlines in the alliance too as well as passengers too. Their membership program isn't very attractive because it is hard to get full miles or miles at all. Therefore, Finnair flies fully laden A321s from HEL to LHR and BA only half loaded A319s on the same route...

Best Regards,
FinnWings

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: DoorsToManual
Posted 2004-05-16 11:59:08 and read 3304 times.

BA's FFP is really only about attracting loyalty from pax who pay full or premium fares, I guess this is how their FFP differs to those above.

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Panamair
Posted 2004-05-16 14:41:38 and read 3200 times.

Correct, BA chose to concentrate mostly on the premium traveller and so their FFP is very stingy with regard to low fares (e.g., they don't earn full credit towards rewards, they don't count towards status miles, etc.). LX's Travel Club program is quite generous in terms of accruing miles (e.g., minimum 1000 miles per flight for virtually all intra-Europe flights, only requiring 50,000 miles to requalify for TC Gold if you have a non-Switzerland address). BA naturally does not want to give TC members a one-for-one trade for Exec Club status (i.e., TC Gold to Exec Club Gold, etc.) and as a result had asked that LX provide them with a list of TC members and their activities so that they (BA) could handpick those they wanted to award EC Silver or EC Gold status. This "sharing of data" is what LX is now opposed to.

IMHO, LX management should have done their homework and realized the big disparity between their respective FFPs before agreeing to integrate the two programs. After all, other European oneworld members (AY, IB) still have their own FFPs and it would have been an option for LX to maintain Travel Club...

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Mozart
Posted 2004-05-16 15:21:04 and read 3132 times.

Not so sure whether LX really had the option to maintain Travel Club.

But on a sidenote, if LX is not happy with rolling TC into BA's FFP, why don't they integrate it into some other oneworld member's (for instance Iberia's)? Maybe now that BA has given some cash it is too later for that, but might have been an (if somewhat less conventional) option.

I just hope LX bounces back to real strength very soon. I know it won't be the old glorious world-spanning Swissair, but I really want them to be a successful premium carrier. One of the few where the banality of cheap does not take its toll on the potential glory of airtravel.

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: FinnWings
Posted 2004-05-16 16:10:36 and read 3091 times.

Thanks Panamair, that reply helped a lot!

I just hope that LX and BA are able to solve all those problems and Swiss will prosper in OneWorld someday. Swiss is important member in OneWorld as ZRH is especially good airport to connect for intra-european flights. I know a lot of people who avoid connecting at LHR, therefore OneWorld is losing a lot of passengers for Star just because of more convenient connection possibilities. I believe Swiss will change that in the future. That is just a Northern-European point of view...

Regards,
FinnWings

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: 744
Posted 2004-05-16 17:30:39 and read 2987 times.

FinnWings,


I believe that LX hasn't any problems with OneWorld the only problem is just BA. I understand that very well... BA is problem for some other airlines in the alliance too as well as passengers too. Their membership program isn't very attractive because it is hard to get full miles or miles at all.

I TOTALLY AGREE with you. So that means that leisure travellers who travel frequently shouldn't FLY BA, only rich and co-oprate travellers get BETTER credits which is TOTATLY UNFAIR. That's why my co-workers went for AS's Mileage Plan rather than BA's Executive CLub and got FULL credit for all BA discounted travel? That's what they say? BA should change their rules for leisure travellers.

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: DoorsToManual
Posted 2004-05-16 17:43:36 and read 2959 times.

Well, it depends really. Perhaps the majority of frequent leisure travellers purchase tickets based on price or convenience alone.

I would consider myself a 'frequent leisure traveller' who recognises the generally high service levels available on BA. However, whenever I travel longhaul, I do not usually express a preference for BA. My choice is largely determined by which airline or airlines offer the lowest fares, and best choice of schedules & departure airports.

In practise, this has meant flying via AMS, AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA or ZRH, and thus by implication, not with BA.

So I totally understand why BA doesn't get terribly excited by people with similar 'preferences' to mine.

In any case, there are a number of programmes which allow passengers to accumulate "Air Miles" without having to fly any particular airline repeatedly.

I realise that not all leisure travellers share my preferences, but thought I'd explain why I understand BA's stinginess with respect to only awarding select travellers.

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Supersonic78
Posted 2004-05-16 19:04:17 and read 2872 times.

as mentioned many times, the problem are especially the conditions of becoming a Silver / Gold or even Circle Member on BA, i just heard that SWISS has about 1000 Circle Members ( Top Membership) BA in comparison has only about 200 of them, so you can imagine what would happen with all the SWISS TC Silver Gold and Circle, most of them would immediately loose their premium status...

but i totally agree with Panamair, they should have done their homework before...

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: PA110
Posted 2004-05-16 19:19:45 and read 2848 times.

This is one of the biggest dysfunctional problems with the OneWorld Alliance. They have not been able to harmonize the various members' frequent flyer programs. Star on the other hand has harmonized virtually all programs except SQ. SQ still does not permit mileage accrual on its lowest fares. Otherwise all other Star members offer same rewards and benefits, at least for flyers in the USA (I don't know about other country's residents). This is particularly beneficial to the consumer when going to redeem miles. They can redeem a fixed number of miles and fly ANY of the Star airlines . Example: 80K miles gets you a business class ticket from the USA to Europe on UA, LH, SK OS, or AC. In fact, LH now offers UA Mileage Plus the identical benefits as flying UA. LH flights count towards premium status, LH accepts all UA service upgrade certificates (including sales certificates). I know I've strayed somewhat off the topic, but what I've always found frustrating with OneWorld is the lack of cooperation on frequent flyer issues within what is supposed to be after all... an Alliance!!!

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Rojo
Posted 2004-05-16 19:45:22 and read 2807 times.

The only advantage BA has is the convenience of LHR, but BA's Exec Club FF program is only attractive for a few premium passengers who fly on high fares. If you are not one, then you have better alternatives... For example, I used to work for a company who paid high fares for us when we travel on business. So if I was a BA Exec club member, that would be good. But when I travel for leisure, I only bought cheap fares, and I still wanted to get rewarded on the same FF program and to use my benefits (elite status). Being a BA Exec club member, I wouldn't be rewarded. Given that most of the times you got to decide which airline to fly for business and you always decide which airline to fly for leisure, then I would be flying someone who rewards me when flying on any fare paid. The average of the fares I paid still is very high, thanks to my business travel, so the airline is winning here and having a loyal customer. This is what BA does not have, they only rely on having the slots in LHR and a great number of flights to many cities (convenience) to keep customers with them, but they sure have a very weak FF program compared to almost any other FF program. I still avoid BA from LHR, and not because I don't like them, but because I want to keep my elite status with AA which is very difficult if you fly BA and considering they are part of the same alliance...

------

Lets see if LX and BA solve their problems, but if not, wat will happen to the LHR-ZRH flights which, if I remember correctly, were given to BA by LX. Are they still LX slots at LHR or did they sell them??

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: KZBA
Posted 2004-05-16 21:21:41 and read 2766 times.

You guys are harsh on the BA EC program. I don't mean this in any offensive manner...but, our profit is based on premium traffic. The economy cabin does not pay our bills, let alone generate a profit, especially now with the extremely low fares that are being offered. For us to offer a $199 each way ticket (east coast USA to LHR) and offer 100% mileage credit is not smart. For the $199 fare you still get the BA service, schedules and convenience.

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Jcded
Posted 2004-05-17 00:55:31 and read 2692 times.

I fly Swiss regularly between geneva (home) and EWR (college) and the only reason I continue to do so is because of their frequent flyer program. Continental would be a more logical choice (direct EWR-GVA) and usually is cheaper, but I with the silver status I got with Swiss I use them on all my travels. I may not represent the most affluent traveler on private travels, but on business travels I will book with Swiss in the Future if they maintain their program, otherwise, its an open market.

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Supersonic78
Posted 2004-05-17 01:35:01 and read 2618 times.

dear Jcded, i hope its not only because of the frequent flyer program  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: LX Plans For OneWorld - On Hold
Username: Jcded
Posted 2004-05-17 05:13:47 and read 2611 times.

swiss and continental have pretty much the same level of service, though swiss has a little edge in that domain, the flight with continental is shorter (EWR_GVA instead of EWR-ZRH-GVA ) but I prefer swiss all the time becuase they treat me right and the frequent flyer program is one of the ways they treat me right, take that away and I wont be as pleased and I'd chose based on the other attributes (time and money)


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