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Topic: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-06 21:40:46 and read 5732 times.

According with some news delivered today, the monopoly for flights between Central America of Copa Airlines and Taca Group, is going to an end. West Caribbean (Colombian based) and Aeropostal (Venezuelan) announced new flights between Central American countries.

Even more, Aeropostal and Sol Air also announced in Honduras a new strategic alliance to compete with CM and TA.

According with my point of view, West Caribbean (using small aircraft for only 43 passengers) nor Aeropostal with an a very old fleet, can compete with the brand new 737 of CM and A319 and A320 of TA, and their experience and background of both.

May I know your opinion?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: 4jaded
Posted 2004-05-06 22:24:38 and read 5657 times.

I really don't think CM and TA have anything to worry about. They are both really good carriers.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-07 04:02:14 and read 5607 times.

Wouldn't it be a duopoly? Monopoly implies the existence of only one dominant participant in a determined market.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: SOUTHAMERICA
Posted 2004-05-07 05:59:38 and read 5584 times.


I don't think there's anything to worry about either.

West Caribbean has been flying for quite a while now to both Panama and Costa Rica from Colombia, without affecting CM's loads that much; considering that they offer pretty competitive fares.


SOUTHAMERICA

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-07 08:25:29 and read 5545 times.

Wouldn't it be a duopoly? Monopoly implies the existence of only one dominant participant in a determined market.

**************************

Your 100% right Eddie. Sorry was my mistake!

Whatever it was, a Monopoly or Duopoly(?) it's getting to an end. That's for sure.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Aer
Posted 2004-05-08 00:15:20 and read 5500 times.

EddieDude,

actually it is called an oligopoly in those cases.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-08 03:15:55 and read 5479 times.

The Greek root oligos- means "a few" while duos- means two. Thus, a duopoly.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Aer
Posted 2004-05-08 07:19:05 and read 5449 times.

I know it sounds right with the etymological roots of the words; but in business, what I study, oligopoly (oligopolio) is the right term for these cases. Merriam-Websters dictionary states "a market situation in which each of a few producers affects but does not control the market."

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-08 19:57:58 and read 5419 times.

As far as I know, the term oligopoly can be applied, as you insist, to markets in which there are two participants, but the term duopoly is way more used under such circumstances. If you take a look at court opinions, treatises, case studies, law school text books and case books, law journals and other sources of authoritative information on legal matters, you will find that the term duopoly is more frequently used to describe such markets than the term oligopoly, which term is rather applied to markets in which more than two participants exert control. FYI, follow this link to a paper published in NYU's Journal of Industrial Economics. It is only an example of how economists (both writers of the paper are members of the faculty of the departments of economics of very renowned international universities) and lawyers tend to use, on a regular basis, the term duopoly for markets in which there are two participants that have a dominant position: http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~lcabral/papers/JIE%201997.pdf. Like this paper, you will find many, many more applications of the word duopoly to such markets. Too bad I do not have here at home my notes, materials and casebook from the Antitrust Law course that I took while pursuing my LL.M. degree at the University of Chicago Law School. I could quote portions of court opinions and of text books using this term.

[Edited 2004-05-08 20:02:01]

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: XA744
Posted 2004-05-09 05:22:58 and read 5397 times.

Howdy folks, EddieDude is very right.

I´ve just checked with a friend of mine, who is deep into commercial legal affairs, and he told me that the right term to be used in the CM/TA case should be:

DUOPOLY.

He briefly defines it as follow:

Trade of goods or a particular service held by only two companies or organizations.

Best regards

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-09 18:32:21 and read 5347 times.

I word from Copa's hub:
I think it will be hard to really compete with Copa and Taca if a newcomer cannot come up with at least daily flights between the Central American capitals. Also, Aeropostal has a bad image here because of their very old planes.
But on the positive side: the market is promising, Taca and Copa flights are well filled and are very profitable. There is even such a demand that Taca still manages to fly around here, even though Copa Airlines is far better than Taca in terms of service.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-09 21:13:47 and read 5324 times.

"There is even such a demand that Taca still manages to fly around here, even though Copa Airlines is far better than Taca in terms of service."

-------------

I don't want to transform this forum into a battle field. But I strongly disagree with this statement.

CM service is basically as good as TA. Nevertheless. TA has more destinations and frequencies than CM. Even more, Taca's fleet is as new as CM, but greater. TA shares is basically own by Central American people (specially Kriete family, a Salvadoran family) among some other minor shareholders. So, TA (Transportes Aereos del Continente Americano, ex Transportes Aereos Centroamericanos) is 100% owned by Central American people vs. CM that practically belongs to CO (at least 49% of it's capital).

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-09 21:33:36 and read 5304 times.

Just one addition to my previous post. TA fleet is not just greater in terms of diversity but bigger than CM.

Thanks

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-09 23:03:27 and read 5275 times.

Me and my colleagues here avoid Taca wherever possible; fortunately Copa is opening more routes within CAM, like SJO-TGU. I used to be stationed in Costa Rica, now I moved to Panama, happy as Copa has more options from here than from SJO  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Taca has that Copa has not:
*uncomfortable departure times due to their morning hub system in SAL (so going out towards SAL you have to be very early!)
*freaking low on-board temperature
*The nasty habit of not distributing headphones on flights shorter than 2 hours (ie. most C-Am flights), but instead providing a loud-volume entertainment (rock music and annoying ads included) through the speakers.
*No food (except for some lousy peanuts or similar).

Taca?? Brrrrrrr
Take Another Carrier Amigo!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-09 23:18:16 and read 5257 times.

I can say exactly the same about myself and friends that avoid CM.

TA has three major hubs: SAL, SJO and LIM instead just one as CM in PTY.

*Freaking low on-board temperature? Come on! You must be joking... Give me a better excuse!
*"Nasty habit..." "Loud volume..." "Rock music..." And you hear the fifth symphony from Beethoven in a 30 minutes flight? In what world do you live?
*What do you get with CM during 55 minutes flight from SJO to PTY at 7 a.m.?
A lobster? Just a lousy peanuts man.

As I told you TA is a Central American product. CM is just a part of CO.

I will not say "CM= brrrrrrrrr". It will be a totally lack of respect, to you and to CM people. But please, open your eyes man!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-09 23:28:45 and read 5247 times.

Well brrrrr is an expression of feeling cold (refer to my earlier comment on on-board temperature) in my language and I thought in others too, sorry if I upset you on that one.

Well I don't care who owns the airline, I care about the service!

*yes, it is always very cold
*Rock or Beethoven... whatever, that's not the point. Provide earphones for those who want to listen to what they like, or keep the system shut. It's that simple.
*Taca from PTY goes at 6am. The afternoon prop flight is unreliable as it is frequently cancelled. TGU departure same problem. MEX departures are so early, not even to consider! By the way, Copa has 3 flights daily between SJO and PTY, so easy to avoid the 7am one.
*Copa has decent food on all flights; on the shortest flights it is at least a warm sandwich.

I hope for Taca that not too many people open their eyes indeed  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

PS many ticos in SJO say the same, the former LACSA was much better!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-10 00:03:22 and read 5235 times.

We definitely agree to disagree.

I really didn't understand the "brrrrrrrrr". Now I do and I apologize!

As long as I know those three daily flights are code shared with TA (pls correct me if I am wrong).

**Taca from PTY goes at 6am.** And Copa from SCL to PTY departs at 3:00 a.m. or so, and the service (pls understand "the food", nothing against the F/As) is simply uneatable. I really don't understand what do you mean by "decent food" or if you are insinuating that TA's food is "not decent". All depends on what you understand by "decent".

I don't work for any, I repeat, any airline in this world. I'm just a professional who travel for business or pleasure. I don't know if it's your case. But I always try to keep both eyes wide open to see the reality and the truth and mine about TA and CM is very different as yours. That's for sure!

By the way, CM owns me the "warm" sandwich. I never ever see one between SJO-PTY and viceversa.



Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-10 00:21:20 and read 5217 times.

CM and TA only code-share on MGA-SAL: an afternoon CM flight that TA was interested in too. I take that flight often as it is the only way to get into SAL and get a connection without having to weak up at 5am.

I agree 100% that CM's flights from Santiago is terrible. But it's the only CM flight in the entire system that has a very bad schedule. Anyway, we were talking about Central America.

SJO-PTY on CM: morning flight: warm sandwich, filled with ham and cheese
afternoon flights: cold ham and cheese sandwich with potato crisps and chocolate bar.
evening flights: breadsticks with cheese, raisins and chocolate bar.
I agree that if you don't like cheese you are better off with the TA peanuts.
I have flown the route zillion times, and it's really like that! I suppose you had an exceptional CM flight.

I agree on our disagreements. I can only add that I am at least someone from a third country....

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-10 00:55:26 and read 5210 times.

You allow me to talk about the SCL-PTY route when you talked about MEX (that is not Central America) in your reply #15.

You are definitely not the only one who fly the route zillion(?) of times, maybe the only Ethiopian in Panama, but for sure the only non Panamanian citizen who memorized Copa's "menu". Sounds strange that you first state that "Copa has decent food on all flights; on the shortest flights it is at least a warm sandwich." (See reply 15). And after you say that "afternoon flights: cold ham and cheese sandwich with potato crisps and chocolate bar" (so the "warm" sandwich became "cold" minutes later). (See reply 17). That's why I told you to keep your eyes wide open, not only to memorize a menu, but to see what you previously wrote.

By the way, your supposition about my CM flights (yes, with an "s", in plural) were not exceptional, not even good. That's the reason why I prefer TACA!

I don't understand what do you exactly mean with your last statement, but I know that you're Ethiopian (the only one in Panama according with you), that you live (or are based) in Panama, so at least, you have a Panamanian Residency. And I'm a proud Tico and a loyal TACA customer!

Cheers  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

P.S. I do love cheese. You should ever try sometime the Costarican one!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-10 01:10:47 and read 5190 times.

Sorry about Mexico, you are right.

Food: You are right in your counter attacks; but I think hard to deny that CM's food as listed is better than the TA mani.....

What I mean with my last statement: I am neither Panamese nor Costarican, so it seems to me at I am more objective! Reading your last message and your signature I suspect that the proud factor plays a role in your case.

I have lived for three years in your country too, by the way. Now I am stationed in Panama, but will move later this year to Peru.

Sorry, never tried the Turrialba....

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-10 05:51:42 and read 5161 times.

"I am neither Panamese nor Costarican, so it seems to me at I am more objective! Reading your last message and your signature I suspect that the proud factor plays a role in your case".
CptGirmayTesfa
-------------------------------------

I have to say that your obsession about the mani (peanuts) and the cold and warm sandwiches is really weird. The last peanut I saw in Taca was last Monday (May 3rd., 2004), flight 630 from CCS to SJO, and was just the beginning of an exquisite complete hot meal, dessert and full bar service.

By the way, I really don't see anything wrong with the peanuts, widely served by CO which owns CM (CM serve "papitas" instead of "mani").

What a coincidence, the salad served yesterday in a meeting has Turrialba, and nobody complained... Maybe next time we will try an Ethiopian recipe.

About my signature it's very simple, and nothing new: I'm a proud customer of TA for more than 10 years, and loyal to my principles. You may see dozens of signatures like mine in airliners.net from people who is also loyal to an specific airline, and don't work for it! Just check them!

Hope you'll enjoy your next station (LIM), as well as you do with CM's warm and cold sandwiches. A city where TA has, among two others, a hub.

Instead of those insipid sandwiches try a ceviche de corvina or a chupe!

Cheers

 Smile



Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Lan_Fanatic
Posted 2004-05-10 06:35:21 and read 5143 times.

Oh, central american fight...nice!... LOL

I have a question. Are Taca and Copa succesful in routes to deep South America (SCL,EZE,GRU)?? I don't know about Taca, but as far as I know Copa is succesful. And if so, why other airlines like Lan, Aerolineas Argentinas or Varig don't fly to SJO or PTY???

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-10 06:46:23 and read 5129 times.

Lan_Fanatic, now that you mention that LA does not fly to PTY, do you know if LA's Peruvian affiliate LP flies to PTY?

I find it strange that the big South American carriers neglect Central America. I guess the reason why CM is successful to EZE, GRU and SCL is because it has no competition from AR, RG, JJ and LA. If these carriers flew to PTY they would probably do so with widebody airplanes and that would put CM in disadvantage (I believe PTY-EZE in a 737 must be somewhat uncomfortable).

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-10 07:13:36 and read 5124 times.

Lan_Fanatic

What concerns about TA, South American routes are profitable for the biggest Central American Airline. It has daily flights to Bogota, Caracas, Quito, Guayaquil, Lima (where TA has one of three Hubs), Cuzco, La Paz, Santa Cruz, Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Routes to deep South America destinations, operated through Taca Peru, part of Grupo Taca, and based in Lima use A319 for 120 passengers and A320 for 150 passengers.

Upper South America destinations (like BOG and CCS) are operated daily from SJO and SAL (by TA or LR).

I think it's important to state that for example CCS it's a very profitable route for TA (operated by LR) since 9/11 incident, for people flying to Europe and connecting with AZ, AF, LH and IB, trying to avoid MIA.

Once in the past Varig flew to SJO using a sharing code with LR (before TA begins as Grupo Taca), but they dropped it soon. Avianca, Sam and Aces did the same until Aces filed for bankruptcy.

I really don't think that Central America is profitable for Lan, Varig or Aerolineas Argentinas, since that routes (from and to Central America) are well covered by TA and CM.

(I miss LAN, the best Latin American Airline, and like its new livery)!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Lan_Fanatic
Posted 2004-05-10 15:41:00 and read 5079 times.

That is what I don't get.
Maybe with one airline for each route (from SJO and PTY) is enough. But how come the southern cone airlines never realized that this routes would be succesful? Or is it because of the connecting posssibilities TA and CM offer? At least this two airlines offer much cheaper fares to MIA as an example, than Lan from SCL

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-10 16:23:20 and read 5052 times.

TA and CM really don't have "cheaper" fares for routes from SCL to MIA, but they do offer from time to time special fares during the year (you may check www.taca.com). Remember that both (TA and CM) has at least one stopover with an aircraft change in that route. But if you fly LAN or AA on the same route it's almost a 100% sure that you got a direct flight.

According with be best of my knowledge, South American routes for TA are profitable thanks to Taca Peru and it's LIM hub. CM also is successful in the same routes because (an this is only an example) on their SCL-PTY route, you leave Santiago around 3:00 a.m., arriving to Panama around 8:00 a.m. and have the chance to connect to La Habana, San Jose, Managua, San Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico and Miami within an hour. Remember that CM practically belongs to CO (who owns 49% of CM shares), so if somebody depart from some point to Central America with CO and have to continue to somewhere in South America, he or she will fly CM. That's for sure. CM is Panamanian only in papers, but it's a regional subsidiary for CO. When you have 49% or more of the total amount of shares in one corporation, you dominate it and do with it whatever you want. As well as LR that belongs to TA that is Salvadoran capital (from a wealthy family, Kriete family as a major shareholder).

AA has five daily flights from SJO (3 of them to MIA, one to Dallas/Fort Worth and another one to NYC), so many people prefer to connect their with a "direct flight" to Santiago, Buenos Aires o Rio de Janeiro. You also have two daily flights of CO, two UA's, to different points in the U.S. where you can also connect with a direct flight to South America. Is it cheaper? It isn't. Less hours? It isn't. Specially if you consider the new Immigration regulations from the U.S. Government after 9/11 incident. But many people prefer it for different reasons.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-10 16:28:31 and read 5046 times.

Sorry, I forget to mention America West, US Airways and Delta with daily flights to and from SJO, that adds opportunities to connect with a direct flight to South America.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Jjjm
Posted 2004-05-10 23:02:19 and read 5005 times.

Well Well, i normally don´t reply but here i go...

I flown many times on TACA, and I can say they are a great small Airline... They have a decent web page, with attractives fares, their planes are clean and nice, only that their seats needs more sponge, they gave u some back pain in very long flights.

There food, sandwich basis are good, very tastefull, I do enjoy them. Much better that Top class ailines that on the same route will only give you peanuts and drinks.

Their entertainment is good for a small airline, you get pictures, and sometimes documentaries.

Connecting in SJO is quick and easy, easier than PTY, only that PTY has better stores.

FF program is great, i´ve got triple miles in 2 trips i´ve done with them, and in some other cases i´ve got double miles. I´ve earned free tkt´s faster on TACA than any other airline.

The best of all is their flight attendants, 90% male flight attendants, they are the cutiest ever, very friendly and gougeous looking. I can´t keep my eyes off of them.

In general everytime i have a chance to fly TACA, i do so.

TACA a great small airline

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-11 05:29:39 and read 4974 times.

Jjjm


Thank you very much for your comment!

I'll appreciate it!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-11 20:39:07 and read 4941 times.

Taca,

For your info, Copa Airlines was named the best airline in Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean, by SkyTrax, an English market-survey company. The World Airline Survey, recognized as the largest airline passenger survey in existence, judges quality of products and services offered customers. The results of the survey, carried out between June 2003 and March 2004, were based on more than 10 million responses sent in by passengers of 90 different nationalities.

I don't know but seems like you hate Copa for some reason. Let me tell you that a airline that have won this award is because it really deserves it. Copa have prove over years their exceptional service even before the Continental Alliance. I can say that Copa Panama have the better service in Central America before the born of Grupo Taca.

It's sad that you don't recognize that Copa have done a lot of things by themselves, many of the routes that they are opening now were Copa plans of many years.

Taca may have a bigger fleet but not for to much. Copa already have 21 planes and it going to receive 4 more direct from Seattle this year.

I think that many costarricans are upset for what Taca is doing in Costa Rica. Many says that Lacsa was a better airline before its union with Taca. Many people have told me that.

I think it doesn't matter how many hubs do you have. If you have at least one, that is one of the most efficient and successful in Latin America is everything to make feel proud.

Copa flies to 30 destinations in 20 countries. Its a great network for a airline that only operates from one Hub. Of course if you put all the Taca hubs together you will get 40 destinations and 19 countries that is not as good as the only hub of Copa.

Copa will continue to grow in the next years, they are planning to add second frequencies to all their destinations and also opening new routes like Rio de Janeiro, as well as many Mexican destinations. Also opening routes to Canada.

And another interesting thing the adquisition of Avianca, will open new markets for Copa and Avianca. This two airlines together will be one of Best carrier in Latinamerica for sure.

Lets see what happens in the next years, and then you can came here and say that Taca is better than Copa.

Best regards,

Felipe

En Copa si volamos cada dia mejor!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-11 21:07:49 and read 4930 times.

I wouldn't be too enthusiastic taking Taca from the Southern Cone to Central America / Caribbean / US, apart from the reasons I gave above. Look at the routes that I quickly derived from Taca's website (unfriendly website by the way, so excuse me if I got some errors):

From EZE you have to change TWICE (namely in SJO and SAL) in order to get to MGA, TGU, SAP, HAV, JFK, IAD, LAX, SFO. MIA/JFK/LAX/SFO can also be done with one change in SJO but then the wait is long.

From GRU and SCL you have to change THREE TIMES (namely in LIM, SJO and SAL) to get to those destinations; same remarks apply to MIA/JFK/LAX/SFO as above.

In addition, the flight EZE-SJO stops in LIM.

Copa on the other hand serves all above destinations (plus SJU and SDQ, minus SAP, IAD, SFO) with only one change in their Panama hub.

The choice is obvious to me!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-11 21:15:16 and read 4912 times.

Felipe, which Mexican destinations will be started by CM? They are already flying to MEX and CUN, so I can only think of MTY. Perhaps GDL too? Or an additional beach destination?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-11 21:21:23 and read 4905 times.

Rumors here are about Monterey, perhaps Copa737 can confirm.

BTW I wonder how Copa can add more destinations as at the 'hub times' at PTY, all gates seem to be occupied...

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-11 22:07:32 and read 4887 times.

Yes, many people says that Monterrey could be a new Copa destination, but only the time will tell us.

Well, Panama is working hard to get a new Tocumen the next year. They are going to add 7 more gates and 6 remote positions. The works should begin in June and will finish in one year. The airport is going to have modern gates, the duty free area will be relocated and there is going to be more waiting areas. Also a Casino, new restaurants are planned.

Then, the plan is to build a new terminal but this is going to take some years.

Regards,

Copa737

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-11 22:37:28 and read 4878 times.

"For your info, Copa Airlines was named the best airline in Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean, by SkyTrax, an English market-survey company. The World Airline Survey, recognized as the largest airline passenger survey in existence, judges quality of products and services offered customers. The results of the survey, carried out between June 2003 and March 2004, were based on more than 10 million responses sent in by passengers of 90 different nationalities.

I don't know but seems like you hate Copa for some reason. Let me tell you that a airline that have won this award is because it really deserves it. Copa have prove over years their exceptional service even before the Continental Alliance. I can say that Copa Panama have the better service in Central America before the born of Grupo Taca." Copa737
----------------

Do you believe everything everything stated in a magazine? By the way, may I have the name of the magazine, where I can find the result of such survey?

Maybe you don't get the point: I don't hate CM, I don't hate Panama, I don't hate Panamanians. I simply prefer TA over CM. I never ever said that TA is the best airline in the area, but I just simply prefer it over any other. By the way, you're right when you say "I can say that Copa Panama have the better service in Central America before the born of Grupo Taca", but not after.

"I think it doesn't matter how many hubs do you have. If you have at least one, that is one of the most efficient and successful in Latin America is everything to make feel proud.

Copa flies to 30 destinations in 20 countries. Its a great network for a(sic) airline that only operates from one Hub. Of course if you put all the Taca hubs together you will get 40 destinations and 19 countries that is not as good as the only hub of Copa." Copa737
------------------------------

Very interesting! "If you have at least one, that is one of the most efficient and successful in Latin America..." I can say exactly the same for SAL-SJO and LIM. But if I can't prove it, it doesn't worth. By the way: Tocumen is still category 2 according the FAA?

------------------------------

"Copa will continue to grow in the next years, they are planning to add second frequencies to all their destinations and also opening new routes like Rio de Janeiro, as well as many Mexican destinations. Also opening routes to Canada.

And another interesting thing the adquisition(sic) of Avianca, will open new markets for Copa and Avianca. This two airlines together will be one of Best carrier in Latinamerica for sure". Copa737
------------------------------

Because what you state is not in the present, we will see what happen in the near future. But remember, one (CM) is own by a large U.S. airline (CO owns at least 49% of CM's shares) and the other filed for bankruptcy in the U.S. and it's apparently saved thanks to a Brazilian group. TACA is a proudly 100%Central American product.
------------------------------

"Lets see what happens in the next years, and then you can came here and say that Taca is better than Copa." Copa737
------------------------------

Yes. Time will say. Hope God give life to be there!

------------------------------

CptGirmayTesfa

You stated in another forum that you want to try AV in your next trip to LIM, nevertheless you prefer CM. Everybody in the forum recommended you AV over CM. Just try AV and compare!!!!!!!

The presence of TA in South America is obviously different than CM. The market rules are not always the same for two airlines in the same routes. I can give you some examples (AA vs. UA) (IB vs. AF) (LAN vs. Varig).

TA's South American routes are profitable, and people likes to fly their routes, as others prefer CM.

By the way, you are not the only Ethiopian in Panama (as you state in your signature) but the only person in this world who says that TA webpage in not friendly (or is unfriendly). Can you prove that????????

Come one guys! Give me better reasons.

I will be waiting for the survey and magazine statistics!

Cheers,  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-11 22:41:53 and read 4865 times.

it could be another leisure route, like puerto vallarta or acapulco. The new T2 at Tocumen will be done by 2007, the remodeling of the old terminal by next year. TACA (the user not the airline) seems to love emphazizing that copa is partially owned by CO, but forgets that he doesnt have a national airline, like we do. and many costaricans liked lacsa better than Taca. And if the adquisition of Avianca goes through as expected, we will have 2 hubs, and be one of the biggest airline in the region. And about the Santiago flight, even though it leaves at 3 am it means that by noon you are at your destination, not 1 am like some taca flights, and only after having changed planes 3 times

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2004-05-11 22:56:41 and read 4845 times.

How can it be a monopoly, or duopoly, or oligoply, when TA isn't even one company, but rather a group of companies that seek to merge into one entity?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-11 23:00:31 and read 4834 times.

"TACA (the user not the airline) seems to love emphazizing that copa is partially owned by CO, but forgets that he doesnt have a national airline, like we do." Luisca
----------------

Who says that CM is Panamanian? It's a subsidiary of CO that owns 49% of CM's shares. By the way, Lacsa exist, and I can prove you, and has aircrafts with the name "LACSA" on them. Just check airliners.net

LR is part of Grupo Taca and mainly owned by TA.

"And about the Santiago flight, even though it leaves at 3 am it means that by noon you are at your destination, not 1 am like some taca flights, and only after having changed planes 3 times". What TA flights are you refering to? Just mention the flight number!

By the way, at what time arrive CM to SCL?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2004-05-11 23:24:03 and read 4815 times.

"By the way, at what time arrive CM to SCL?"

0245 local, and departs for PTY at 0345

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-12 02:15:12 and read 4803 times.

Taca,

Please visit http://www.airlinequality.com/2004/group_results.htm

for the awards results. It's not the first time Copa receive an award. I haven't heard the same from Taca. It's true you can't trust everything you read in magazines but when you see how they chose this awards, you may notice that its very serious.

Also In November 2002, PODER Magazine, Booz, Allen & Hamilton and Egon Zehnder International gave Copa the “Best Regionalization in Latin America award, and in December of that same year, the Central American Tourism Federation gave Copa Airlines the “Turismo Sin Fronteras(Tourism Without Boundaries) award. In April 2003, Copa received AirFinance Journals first Developing Airline of the Year Award.

The Hub of the Americas have also received awards. I haven't heard the same from El Salvador, Lima or San Jose. Sorry, but the passengers have the final words and I have heard many good comments of the Copa hub as a system. Just go and search for passengers comments in the internet and you will find many. Also you asked if Panama is category 2, not its not Panama is now category 1 approved by the FAA.

And also Copa has reported a 95.6 percent on-time performance record for 1st quarter 2004, the highest record the airline has ever achieved. How about Taca?

Please show me how many planes have LACSA titles. Three??, N981LR, N991LR and N481TA. Don't worry soon all the planes will have TACA titles.
At least we have 21 planes with Copa Airlines titles and Panamanian flag on it, and Panamanian registration, not a salvadorean or Peruvian and neither a US flag or US registrations.

Who is the CEO of LACSA a costarican or a salvadorean?. The CEO of Copa is 100% Panamanian and have done a great work over years. Most of the pilots are Panamanian as well as the high ranking officers and crew.

Continental owns 49%, Panamanian capital 49%, workers 2%. The Panamanian capital is Panamanian and the workers too. 49% + 2%= 51%.

Regards,
Copa 737




Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 04:03:46 and read 4779 times.

"The Hub of the Americas have also received awards. I haven't heard the same from El Salvador, Lima or San Jose. Sorry, but the passengers have the final words and I have heard many good comments of the Copa hub as a system. Just go and search for passengers comments in the internet and you will find many. Also you asked if Panama is category 2, not its not Panama is now category 1 approved by the FAA." Copa737
----------------------------------------------

Is about time that the Hub of the las Americas got category 1 now by the FAA!!!!!! SAL-SJO and LIM got it zillion of years ago! As I state before, CM is just a subsidiary of CO. Anything is done in CM without the blessing of CO. Even more, both liveries are practically the same.

----------------------------------------------
"Please show me how many planes have LACSA titles. Three??, N981LR, N991LR and N481TA. Don't worry soon all the planes will have TACA titles.
At least we have 21 planes with Copa Airlines titles and Panamanian flag on it, and Panamanian registration, not a salvadorean or Peruvian and neither a US flag or US registrations." Copa737
----------------------------------------------

Oh yes!!!!!!!! You're right!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only three, maybe two or just one!. And your also right stating that maybe soon all a/c will have TACA titles. The reason is so simple: they will become part of a much more bigger and modern fleet (more than 32 A319s and A320s). I also give you credit when you said that CM a/cs has Panamanian flag and registrations. TA has Salvadoran, Costarican, Guatemalan, Panamanian and Peruvian flags and U.S. registrations. So I say: What about it???????????

You may see many ships at Miami harbor, with Panamanian flag and registrations, all beautiful cruises, but.... they don't belong to Panama.

----------------------------------------------

"And also Copa has reported a 95.6 percent on-time performance record for 1st quarter 2004, the highest record the airline has ever achieved. How about Taca?"

According with the information I got seven days ago during a flight from CCS to SJO, 95%. I think 0.6% makes no difference at all.

-----------------------------------------------

"Who is the CEO of LACSA a costarican or a salvadorean?. The CEO of Copa is 100% Panamanian and have done a great work over years. Most of the pilots are Panamanian as well as the high ranking officers and crew."

LACSA's CEO is Fernando Naranjo. Former Ministry of Foreign Affairs, former President of the Banco Central de Costa Rica, and a well known economist in Latin America.

------------------------------------------------

"Continental owns 49%, Panamanian capital 49%, workers 2%. The Panamanian capital is Panamanian and the workers too. 49% + 2%= 51%."

And they got only the Panamanian flag and registrationson the a/cs

Everything else is a copy/paste from CO.

I just want to see the CM CEO doing something against CO will. I beat he will fired immediately!

TACA's capital, is 100% proudly Central American!!!!!!!!!

-------------------------------------------------

I just saw the link you showed: TAM better tha LAN?, Continental better than AA?, Cathay over Singapore (Regional Best Airline)? They must be kidding!!!!!!

I can't believe that you believe that crap!

I seems not to be a serious webpage. But who cares. As you state paxs decide!

Let them fly TA, CM or whatever they want?

And remember: Airlines survive not by the above said awards, that maybe are covered by dust, or hidden at the CEO office. They survive thanks to their loyal clients!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a TACA's one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And a very proud one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




"

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-12 06:12:36 and read 4743 times.

Well as the discussion started, TA and CM will face some more competition, so let's see how many clients stay loyal! I am skeptical though, it seems to me that the C-Am governments overprotect their prides. TA and CM control Central America, ticket prices are exactly the same, and are very high! I respect anyone's national pride but I prefer sound competition, that's better for the people!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-12 06:14:28 and read 4742 times.

I guess SANSA is still Costarican?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-12 06:36:13 and read 4721 times.

I have never been on a CM or a TA flight before. That said, I have the impression that CM has been able to exploit PTY's fabulous location in order to develop a very smart route system and an even better timetable. Good connections, I think, have been the cornerstone of CM's success. The fleet has also played an important role since all planes are very new 737NG's and, as I understand, kept in excellent condition. It seems to me that, in the medium term, CM has better prospects for expansion than TA. The opening of new destinations in Mexico, Canada, the U.S. and Brazil is just a sign of that.

With respect to TA, I have heard that their product is good too, but I think they are behind CM in terms of geographic coverage (I am talking about non-Central American routes) and, more importantly, connection practicality. Nevertheless, I wish TA well and I hope that they can hold their own against CM and other competitors (by the way, I do not think that Sol Air/Aeropostal will pose a serious threat to either TA or CM). In any case, I just want to mention that TA is going to be facing serious problems in the LIM-MEx route. Currently AM and TA codeshare on this route and AM flied it 4x weekly using a 752 while TA flies it 3x weekly using an A32x. Problem is that LP is now flying LIM-MX), Mexico">MEX non-stop using a 762ER also 4x weekly and offered very attractive business class introductory fares. This forced AM to increase frequencies to 5x weekly and to lower both its coach and business fares. In a nutshell, a fare war developed. TA, however, is only a silent witness of AM and LP's bold moves and, hopefully not, may be forced out of the market by the two bigger carriers. Anyway, let's see what happens.

Finally, about the awards, I agree that sometimes they do not mean much. Moreover, there are several surveys, organizations, etc. that give awards, so it is really hard to say who is in fact better. In fact, MX has been winning the title of Best Latin American airline several years in a row. This award is given, I believe, by an association of travel agents from all over the world (but mainly from Europe). While MX is not CX in terms of service, it is a very good airline in my opinion and undoubtedly a strong rival for Central American carriers in their flights to North America. I think that MX is CM and TA's true competitor in the Central America-U.S./Canada market due to the very big network of MX destinations in the U.S. and Canada and the codeshare with AC and AA. At the moment, MX flies twice daily to GUA using A319's, once daily to SJO using a 752 and 4 weekly to SAL using an A319 (all from MEx) and I understand they have good loads.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 06:37:02 and read 4721 times.

"I guess SANSA is still Costarican?" CptGirmayTesfa

-------------------------------

It is. But part of Grupo Taca.

The company "Servicios Aereos Nacionales, S.A." is a Costarican Corporation, but owned by Grupo Taca as I said.

I agree 100% with your post #42. Specially with the extremely high fares (e.g. SJO-MGA-SJO ticket with TA or Cm cost more than US$200 plus taxes, and SJO-MIA-SJO with AA, LR, TA, IB, Martinair, less than U.S.$150,00 plus taxes).

Unbelievable but true!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-12 07:00:04 and read 4703 times.

Panama had the category 1 years before Peru, Costa Rica and El Salvador, that's for sure. Panama lost it in 2001 and in 2004 we got it back. Most of the countries can't resolve all the security requirements in 3 years. But Panama did it.

"According with the information I got seven days ago during a flight from CCS to SJO, 95%. I think 0.6% makes no difference at all."

No is not, but that is not the TACA on-time performance, I read in taca.com that was 85% or something like that. I saw the information some minutes ago, but now is gone, I don't find it. That website is a little tricky to use.

What the LACSA's CEO does?

I just want to see the CM CEO doing something against CO will. I beat he will fired immediately!

I don't think so Pedro Heilbron Copa's CEO have a great relationship with the Motta family the owners of the 49% of Copa. I think he won't be fired if they don't bring someone better than him, and that would be pretty hard.

About the survey you took some examples that could be perfectly correct.
TAM Brazil is one of the better companies in Latin America in terms of service to the passenger and fleet and everything it can perfectly be equal or better that LAN in some things.

Continental better than AA, is not to far away from the reality. Continental is one of the airline with better service in United States, and it wasn't in serious financial problems with the Sept. 11 events. In 2003, Fortune magazine named Continental as the best airline in United States for the service quality and product.

And Cathay is worldwide recognized as one of the best airlines in the industry.
I don't see why this could be out of the reality. When 10 million people from every part of the world vote for their favorite airline, you have to count that.

As I stated before the passengers decide, and many many have chose Copa Airlines over many others, they should have a good reason to do it. As you said Airlines don't survive by the awards, but its always good to be recognize as one of the best in the industry and believe it or not the passengers look closer at it.

Copa Airlines success speaks by itself. And I'm really proud of it as a Panamanian.

Regards,

Copa737


Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 07:02:52 and read 4699 times.

"once daily to SJO using a 752"

Eddie: They are using an A320, not a 752!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-12 07:08:45 and read 4689 times.

Oh, thanks for the correction Taca, I must then throw away my January MX timetable and get a new one. But they flew a 752 to SJO at some point, didn't they?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 07:23:40 and read 4681 times.

Absolutely!

But apparently they change the a/c from time to time.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: LatinAviation
Posted 2004-05-12 14:48:54 and read 4664 times.

In my opinion, you guys are arguing over the petty stuff. Can't you see how far both TA and CM have come over the past decade, if not more? When Federico Bloch started with Taca in the late '70s they operated three 737s. That's it. They've since been able to integrate many of Central American airlines into a unified brand and service delivery, plus expand to Peru. Copa, too, has experienced an incredible turnaround under Pedro Heilbron.

In the end, it's going to take a lot more, imho, to take down TA or CM than West Caribbean or Aeropostal/Sol Air deciding to commit to a hub in the region. Both airlines have smart managers with are too much business acumen to let someone else profit at their expense. Just look at what Taca has done to Aero Costa Rica, Sol Air, amongst others, to combat competition on their home turf.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 15:11:11 and read 4657 times.

"Panama had the category 1 years before Peru, Costa Rica and El Salvador, that's for sure. Panama lost it in 2001 and in 2004 we got it back. Most of the countries can't resolve all the security requirements in 3 years. But Panama did it." Copa737
-----------------------------------

While Tocumen was category 2, SAL-SJO and LIM were 1. By now all four are category 1, so everybody's happy here.

-----------------------------------

"According with the information I got seven days ago during a flight from CCS to SJO, 95%. I think 0.6% makes no difference at all."Copa737
No is not, but that is not the TACA on-time performance, I read in taca.com that was 85% or something like that. I saw the information some minutes ago, but now is gone, I don't find it. That website is a little tricky to use."

------------------------------------

I told you that I hear that information (I'll give you more detailed info here) on board an A320, on May 3rd., 2004, flight LR630, from CCS to SJO.

Are you talking about www.taca.com? (I mean, the one you said "is a little tricky to use")? They don't give such information at any time. What do you find "tricky" on it?

Please don't offend my intelligence!

-------------------------------------

"What the LACSA's CEO does?" Copa737

-------------------------------------

Obviously his job. Basically what Heilbron does in Panama, Naranjo does it in San Jose.

-------------------------------------

"About the survey you took some examples that could be perfectly correct.
TAM Brazil is one of the better companies in Latin America in terms of service to the passenger and fleet and everything it can perfectly be equal or better that(sic) LAN in some things.

Continental better than AA, is not to far away from the reality. Continental is one of the airline with better service in United States, and it wasn't in serious financial problems with the Sept. 11 events. In 2003, Fortune magazine named Continental as the best airline in United States for the service quality and product.

And Cathay is worldwide recognized as one of the best airlines in the industry.
I don't see why this could be out of the reality. When 10 million people from every part of the world vote for their favorite airline, you have to count that." Copa737

------------------------------------------

Here you are repeating what such webpage says. Nothing new.

I still have serious doubts about the seriousness of such webpage. A serious one always show the thecnique used by to obtain results, show statistics, etc. This one show only "results". How do they get such resuts. Nobody knows.

As Eddidude stated: " Finally, about the awards, I agree that sometimes they do not mean much. Moreover, there are several surveys, organizations, etc. that give awards, so it is really hard to say who is in fact better." (See reply 43) Evenmore, many times are the Travel Agents, not the passangers, who give their opinions in such surveys.

----------------------------------------

"As I stated before the passengers decide, and many many have chose(sic) Copa Airlines over many others, they should have a good reason to do it. As you said Airlines don't survive by the awards, but its always good to be recognize as one of the best in the industry and believe it or not the passengers look closer at it." Copa737

----------------------------------------

Your right!!!!!!!! Passangers decide! Not organizations, nor travel agents, but paxs!

----------------------------------------

"Copa Airlines success speaks by itself. And I'm really proud of it as a Panamanian" Copa737


----------------------------------------

Also Taca. That's what I am a proud TA customer, a 100% Central American product. I never will be tired of say so!


Cheers!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-12 19:59:58 and read 4623 times.

I just have to point out that at the current rate of growth, COPA will surpass TACA in the next 5 years, maybe sooner if the avianca deal goes down as it should

En COPA volamos cada dia mejor

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 20:14:10 and read 4607 times.

"I just have to point out that at the current rate of growth, COPA will surpass TACA in the next 5 years, maybe sooner if the avianca(sic) deal goes down as it should" Luisca

----------------------------------


May I know your source for that premonition? Where can I find such information?
Do you have any statistics in order to compare both airlines? Or are you just supposing it?

Sorry but I don't take your word for granted! You must prove me that if you want me to take it as the truth!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

By the way, I can't find your previous reply!!!!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-12 20:58:07 and read 4595 times.

"COPA will surpass TACA in the next 5 years..." Luisca

---------------------------------------------------

So you are expressly accepting that TA is bigger than CM, and needs 5 (five) years (maybe more, maybe less) to be bigger (surpass) TA.

Yes, you're right. TA is bigger than CM. Will see what happen in the next 5 years or so!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-13 01:09:35 and read 4558 times.

I would have to be a moron not to recognize that TACA fleetwise, routnetwork wise and Passanger number wise is larger than COPA, but at the rate that copa is increasing all three, compared to how taca is increasing it will surpass it taca in 5 years, just check the numbers on the website. Also, the adquisition of avianca would mean that copa would be larger INSTANTLY. COPA does not disclose finnancial information to the public becouse it is a privatly held company. But i would not be surprised if financially copa was better of than TACA. If I am not mistaken TACA is not increasing its fleet, copa will recieve 4 more 73G by the end of 2004 and posibly add 5 new routes and increase frequency on ALL routes by 2005. Here are your facts

[Edited 2004-05-13 01:33:44]

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-13 01:48:14 and read 4541 times.

Taca,

Well, not the biggest airlines are the best. If you think so you probably are very far from the reality. In clear terms Taca is bigger than Copa but not for too much. Count that Panama only have a population of 2.9 million. El Salvador 6 millions and Costa Rica have almost 4 millions, both have a population of 10 millions without count Guatemala and Honduras. Thats means more movement of passengers.

For a small country like Panama with a small population having an airline of the Copa's size is more admirable, than have one that is from all Central America and have only 10 more planes that Copa and few more destinations that could be some secondary cities in Peru.

regards,

Copa737

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Mt99
Posted 2004-05-13 02:04:09 and read 4521 times.

Population numbers dont mean anything. Panama is has greater traffic due to Canal Activities, being a Finance center and the per capita income is greater than any of the other Central American countries.

I wonder how much money CO pumps into Copa? How is it held? Like a separate company that has to produce a profit?.. does CO give them a break in pilot training, maintenance.. ect? TA has to do this all by its lonesome. I dont know the answers.. so its hard to make an apples to apples comparison.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-13 08:47:48 and read 4508 times.

"COPA does not disclose finnancial(sic) information to the public becouse(sic) it is a privatly(sic) held company. But i(sic) would not be surprised if financially copa(sic) was better of(sic) than TACA. If I am not mistaken TACA is not increasing its fleet, copa(sic) will recieve(sic) 4 more 73G by the end of 2004 and posibly(sic) add 5 new routes and increase frequency on ALL routes by 2005. Here are your facts." Luisca

----------------------------------

Is this an affirmation or an speculation? I think you don't have any number available about the financial situation of CM, as well as I don't have TA ones with me right now. The difference is that I don't speculate with the information as you do it in this forum.

What do you mean by: "COPA does not disclose finnancial information to the public becouse(sic) it is a privatly held company(?)". All airlines are meant to publish their financial situation according to law. Come on guy. You are once again insulting my intelligence!

TACA will be increasing it's fleet when it is necessary. TA has now one of the most modern Airbus fleet in America. TA has more than 32 aircrafts (A319, A320, ATR, Cessna). I refuse to talk about what will be happen in the next 5 years. I will give you my opinion of the present.

Try to stop to speculate about information you are not sure about it.

------------------------------------------

"Well, not the biggest airlines are the best. If you think so you probably are very far from the reality. In clear terms Taca is bigger than Copa but not for too much. Count that Panama only have a population of 2.9 million. El Salvador 6 millions and Costa Rica have almost 4 millions, both have a population of 10 millions without count Guatemala and Honduras. That's means more movement of passengers.

For a small country like Panama with a small population having an airline of the Copa's size is more admirable, than have one that is from all Central America and have only 10 more planes that Copa and few more destinations that could be some secondary cities in Peru." Copa737

------------------------------------------

You are totally out of focus. Do you have any idea about the size and population of Singapore and Switzerland? Each one has two of the best (the top of the best) airlines in the whole world: Singapore Airlines and Swiss.

So...

Country size and population has no direct relationship about how big the national airline is. If you compare, for example, the size and population of Singapore (and Singapore Airlines) with the size and population of Mexico (and Mexicana or Aeromexico, or both together) you may notice that your affirmation is absolutely wrong. All of them (Singapore, Swiss, Mexicana and Aeromexico are great airlines) respond to a different reality.

------------------------------------------

Cheers,  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-13 18:25:42 and read 4486 times.

I think you didn't get my point. I didn't say that a small country can't have a great airline. Of course they can. But Swizerland and Singapore are two different examples.

I know perfectly the population of Singapore and Switzerland, the first one have about 4 millions and the second one about 7 millions. Anyway, you can't compare first world contries with third world countries. That is like compare two whole different things.

In matter of fact, all the Central American countries and Panama are from the third world. So the success of an airline depends of every single thing thats make our countries a third world ones. I think you should know that reasons if you are sooo intelligent.

"Is this an affirmation or an speculation? I think you don't have any number available about the financial situation of CM, as well as I don't have TA ones with me right now. The difference is that I don't speculate with the information as you do it in this forum." Taca

Well, I think you are very intelligent to judge that, do you think that the Copa financial situation is bad? hahaha please!

Regards  Wink/being sarcastic

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EAL757
Posted 2004-05-13 18:30:10 and read 4487 times.

I'd fly AA down to any of those places before I'd ever even think about getting on Taca or the others. ...especially into Tegucigalpa--the last airline I'd want flying me between those mountains is Taca.

-Jeff

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-13 19:11:52 and read 4460 times.

Panamanian law doesnt require airlines to disclose finnancial information. Copa is a panamanian company

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-13 19:15:24 and read 4449 times.

"I'd fly AA down to any of those places before I'd ever even think about getting on Taca or the others. ...especially into Tegucigalpa--the last airline I'd want flying me between those mountains is Taca."
-----------

Jeff: You can fly AA only from and to the U.S.. Not between Central American countries. Otherwise you may fly TA or CM, or take a bus.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-13 19:18:59 and read 4443 times.

"Well, I think you are very intelligent to judge that, do you think that the Copa financial situation is bad? hahaha please..."Copa737

------------------------------------

I never ever said so. You did it!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-13 19:25:10 and read 4434 times.

"Panamanian law doesnt(sic) require airlines to disclose finnancial(sic) information. Copa is a panamanian(sic) company"Luisca

-------------------------------------

So if it is some kind of a secret, how do you know that the CM financial situation is as good as you state ?

I know that CM is Panamanian, owned by 49% by an American one (CO).

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-13 19:31:00 and read 4414 times.

"So if it is some kind of a secret, how do you know that the CM financial situation is as good as you state ?"

Hey! again, do you think the Copa financial situation is bad???? Judge by yourself. Use your common sense.

regards

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-13 19:49:52 and read 4385 times.

"Hey! again, do you think the Copa financial situation is bad???? Judge by yourself. Use your common sense."Copa737

-----------------------------------------

Once again. I never ever said so. I never said that CM financial situation is good or bad. But in order to know it, people must see an official financial report.

By the way, Luisca is the only one speculating about some financial information he doesn´t have, nor you, nor me. Why? Because according to him (Luisca) "Panamanian law doesnt(sic) require airlines to disclose finnancial(sic) information. Copa is a panamanian(sic) company"

When or where did I say that CM financial situation is bad, good, or even better or worst than TA?

Just indicate me the reply number and if it is necessary I´ll make the necessary corrections!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-13 20:40:21 and read 4371 times.

"I'd fly AA down to any of those places before I'd ever even think about getting on Taca or the others. ...especially into Tegucigalpa--the last airline I'd want flying me between those mountains is Taca.

-Jeff "

--------------------------------


By the way Jeff: What's the difference of landing into TGU with AA or TA or CM?

The mountains are not going to move!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-14 03:31:06 and read 4334 times.

" When Federico Bloch started with Taca in the late '70s they operated three 737s. That's it. They've since been able to integrate many of Central American airlines into a unified brand and service delivery, plus expand to Peru. Copa, too, has experienced an incredible turnaround under Pedro Heilbron" LatinAviation---------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Bloch passed away two weeks ago. Very sad information! :-(

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: 4jaded
Posted 2004-05-14 05:05:37 and read 4320 times.

Well this thread started out very slow and did not take off right away but having revisted it I see that we are in the death throws of debate. Nothing like it  Smile Congrats to all that are defending their airlines !! However I must say as a third party out of the way and having flown with Copa 16 flights and Taca 11 flights on both shorter and longer haul flights, premium cabin and economy, both have very good service, attractive and attentive male and female flight attendants, good food relative to what other US airlines offer in similar markets etc. Both Web sights are pretty easy to get around and both have similar check in standards. While I am sure you can debate size, marketing etc both camps here can be assured that your carriers are doing a great job. I look forward to flying with both again soon.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-14 05:52:21 and read 4302 times.

TACA
I am a student an Aviation Adiministration with flight option at Universidad Tecnologica de Panama ( a program that is in partnership with FIT and Copa airlines subsidises it) and i give a course on finnances in aviation buissneses. I have seen the 2001 financial report of copa, becouse it is the only one that they would let us see, even though it is still secret, i can tell you it was better than taca's 2001 report (wich is public). I cant disclose numbers but if it was like that in 2001, you can imagine in 2004 how it will be.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-14 06:11:00 and read 4291 times.

"I am a student an(sic) Aviation Adiministration(sic) with flight option at Universidad Tecnologica(sic) de Panama(sic) ( a program that is in partnership with FIT and Copa airlines subsidises(sic) it) and give a course on finnances(sic) in aviation buissneses(sic). I have seen the 2001 financial report of copa(sic), becouse(sic) it is the only one that they would let us see, even though it is still secret, i(sic) can tell you it was better than taca's 2001 report (wich(sic) is public). I cant(sic) disclose numbers but if it was like that in 2001, you can imagine in 2004 how it will be."Posted by Luisca

-------------------------------------------------

Sorry I don't believe in fairy tales. I must admit that your reply 69 (my favorite number by the way), is like a cheap soap opera. Why so many oldy financial secrets (2001)?

By the way, I teach International Law, Philosophy of Law, History of Law and Roman Law, and since you show some "secret" information to your students
it's not a "secret" anymore.

Cheers and good luck!  Smile

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-15 19:03:31 and read 4262 times.

you can believe what ever you whant. It was a course on preparing finnancial statementes and they let us see it. but we couldnt keep the paper.
Copa737 can coroborate that i am a student pilot at UTP

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-15 20:00:56 and read 4233 times.

"you can believe what ever you whant(sic). It was a course on preparing finnancial(sic) statementes(sic) and they let us see it. but(sic) we couldnt(sic) keep the paper.
Copa737 can coroborate(sic) that i(sic) am a student pilot at UTP"
-------------------------------------------------------
Luisca: Where and did I say that you are not a pilot student???????

Why do I have to doubt it Sir? There is no reason!

When you say that "and they let us see it" who are you referring to?

By the way, do you know that TA order 30 brand new A319 and A320?

This is in response to your replies numbers 54 and 71.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Try to use the spell check Sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copaair737
Posted 2004-05-15 21:03:17 and read 4222 times.

A bit off topic, but will TA ever expand service to SFO from maybe GUA or SJO? And will we ever see CM start SFO service? I have flown both, and they are both great airlines. Better than most US airlines I might add.

-Copa

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-15 21:19:59 and read 4210 times.

"A bit off topic, but will TA ever expand service to SFO from maybe GUA or SJO? And will we ever see CM start SFO service? I have flown both, and they are both great airlines. Better than most US airlines I might add."Copaair737

---------------------------------------

Regarding TA, I agree that they must expand service to SFO, maybe in part as a consequence of the big Salvadoran community living in California. Usually such flights are crowded. Same situation apply to LAX. Maybe with the entrance in service of brand new A319 and A320 TA will be on pick season.

About CM they are actually expanding to JFK pretty soon (within the next few weeks) among other new destinations. Will be so nice to see CM in SFO also!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Luisca
Posted 2004-05-16 00:55:52 and read 4181 times.

I realy dont see copa expanding to SFO anytime soon. they are right now concentrating on adding frequencies to all their routes, expanding services in north america (all three countries) and the purchase of Avianca is the N°1 priority right now

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-16 01:15:41 and read 4171 times.

"...and the purchase of Avianca is the N°1 priority right now"

It's CO not CM priority. In the event that the Judge who is in charge of AV bankruptcy approve the transaction, CO not CM will pay.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-16 01:55:05 and read 4160 times.

"...Copa737 can coroborate(sic) that i(sic) am a student pilot at UTP"

Why does he (Copa737) can do that? Is he your father or the one who pays for your studies as pilot student?

Remember that I never stated that you're not a pilot student. But, if I said so just simply indicate me where, and I will apologize you.

Remember to use the "Spell Check" always.!!!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: LVZXV
Posted 2004-05-16 02:31:45 and read 4148 times.

The only TA branch to serve EZE is the Peruvian one from LIM, on one of Latin America's most fiercely competitive routes, currently fought out between AR, LP, N6 and TA on a daily basis. Asides CM's daily service from PTY, there are no airlines linking EZE with Central America from either end. I really don't think there's much demand. When AR's destinations peaked around 1999, the only Central American destination served was PTY, not SJO. That said, I do recall LR serving EZE with A320s, if my memory serves me correctly, and I know some Argentines who have recently visited Costa Rica. At present though, from EZE at least, passengers seem happy to travel to PTY with CM for onward connections to Central America and the Caribbean (they're not exactly eager to try out CU via HAV!). The real money-makers however are between the Southern Cone and Mexico, the Dom. Rep. and to a lesser extent Puerto Rico, as evidenced by LAN's Dominican affiliate, or, when in doubt, fly through MIA!!!

XV

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-16 03:43:06 and read 4131 times.

"...Asides CM's daily service from PTY, there are no airlines linking EZE with Central America from either end. I really don't think there's much demand."

I agree 100% with you in this regard LVZXV !!!!!

Lima's Hub has been proved to be profitable for TA.

Greets,

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-16 19:01:20 and read 4103 times.

TA will probably suffer with the LIM-MEX fligths though. LP has entered the market and is doing 4 weekly flights on a 762ER. AM is increasing frequencies from 4 to 5 weekly using a 752, and is offering killer fares. TA, who flies an A320 three times a week on codeshare with AM, will have a real hard time competing with AM and LP.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-16 19:23:13 and read 4093 times.

Eddie, I agree with you, but try to book a TA flight on that route within the next 8 to 12 weeks? I am not really afraid of LP, I trust TA and people in from of it. We can compete and beat LP. But time will say the last word. ! Let´s see what happen in 2 to 3 months.

By the way, I enjoy very much all your comments colleague!.

























Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: SOUTHAMERICA
Posted 2004-05-16 19:38:51 and read 4087 times.


I equally like both companies.

CM has the widest operation in Colombia of all foreign carriers, serving 5 destinations (Bogota, Medellin, Cali, Barranquilla and Cartagena) daily nonstop from PTY. They offer a good consistent service and great connections in Panama.

TA, on the other hand, only flies to BOG, but with several daily frequencies. They started out with one daily flight from SJO, and then added the second daily; both on A320. Then Taca Peru started flying from LIM with daily A319, offering great connections to the southern cone, and competing directly with AV and 56 who fly 767s on the route.

Comments about the airlines couldn't be better.


SOUTHAMERICA

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-16 20:47:14 and read 4075 times.

Thanks a lot Taca, I really enjoy the forums and, as you can see, all threads involving Latin America.

Is the AM/TA codeshare in the MEx-LIM route a good deal for both of them? In other words does TA get a lot of AM pax? TA is close to AA as I understand and AA is now a codeshare partner of MX. Do you think that AM will end up terminating its codeshare with TA?

Finally a really stupid question (or group of questions): is TACA Perú an airline started from scratch or is it the result of the acquisition by TACA of a Peruvian carrier? If that's the case, was the acquired carrier AeroPerú? Is that why AM negotiated the codeshare? I guess that why I really want to know is what happened to AeroPerú after the disastrous ownership by AM, DL and the Peruvian government, and how TACA Perú came to exist.

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-16 21:27:29 and read 4068 times.

"Is the AM/TA codeshare in the MEx-LIM route a good deal for both of them? In other words does TA get a lot of AM pax? TA is close to AA as I understand and AA is now a codeshare partner of MX. Do you think that AM will end up terminating its codeshare with TA?"
------------------------------------------------------------

Eddie: I think that alliances are the real future for the airline industry. If TA and many other Latin American airlines want to survive, they must work together with other airlines. As you can see even big ones like KL can't do it without a helping hand (AF). Is TA getting a lot of AM pax? I really don't know. Maybe yes, maybe not (or something in the middle). But I hope that AM will not end up terminating its codeshare with TA. Otherwise TA will need another major carrier. I really don't see a necessary end for the AA/TA codeshare because of its new with MX. As I stated before (in another reply), I trust TA people, and they must be working on that.


Taca Peru is a new airline that belongs to Grupo Taca. It's not the result of the adquisition of any Peruvian airline. All shares of Taca Peru belongs to Grupo Taca (Salvadoran capital). As you know AeroPeru is history now, and
Taca is developing a very good business at LIM Hub.

Cheers,  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2004-05-16 22:39:23 and read 4049 times.

You are probably right about the future of the AM/TA codeshare. It's just that lately airline alliances look like college dromitory buildings. Everybody gets in bed with everybody. I can understand MX codesharing with some oneworld members, some Star Alliance members and with unaffiliated carriers like CM and AV. However, CM is very likely going to become a SkyTeam member soon and, yet, it renewed its codeshare with MX for another term just a few months ago. Moreover, just look at this example: MX codeshares with AA, AA codeshares with TA, TA's Peruvian subsidiary codeshares with AM, AM and MX are competitors domestically and abroad, but they are also owned by the same holding company and even codeshare between themselves domestically. Or another one: DL and SQ have mileage accrual and redemption agreements but SQ is a Star Alliance member whereas DL is a SkyTeam member. A third one: RG is a Star Alliance member. It competes with JJ (who is not a member of any alliance) in Brazilian domestic and to EZE, MIA and CDG, yet RG and JJ codeshare extensively within Brazil (and to EZE too, I think); in addition, JJ codeshares with AA (which is a oneworld member) and TA, but it also codeshares with AF (SkyTeam), while RG codeshares with MX which also codeshares with AA. Not that all of this is wrong. Actually it is very amusing to me. But it is odd. Fortunately, thanks to all this promiscuous network of partnerships, I was able to get MX miles during a JJ domestic flight last February (I booked it through RG).

On another subject, what happened to AeroPerú's airplanes (the ones it owned), slots, routes and other assets. Did LANPerú, AeroContinente and TACA Perú bought some of those in the cheap or what?

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-17 00:59:56 and read 4019 times.

"Taca Peru is a new airline that belongs to Grupo Taca. It's not the result of the adquisition of any Peruvian airline. All shares of Taca Peru belongs to Grupo Taca (Salvadoran capital). As you know AeroPeru is history now, and
Taca is developing a very good business at LIM Hub." Taca said

Oh well, the beginning of Taca Peru wasn't the best at all. I invite you to investigate more about how Taca Peru began their operations in Peru and you will find that Taca Peru is not the nice story that you want to tell us.

First at all, Taca Peru is not owned by Grupo Taca by the 100% of shares.

Taca Peru was born in the middle of the Peruvian crisis with the former President Alberto Fujimori, and with the collaboration of many high ranking officers of the Peruvian government like Vladimiro Montensinos, a well known person for the famous videos about the Peruvian corruption.

Also Taca Peru was benefited from irregularly authorized permissions to operate their routes. In clear terms, a permission to begin operations can demand several months of troublesome proceedings but in the case of Taca Peru it only took few hours. A record for the bureaucracy of any Latin American country. The merit of this was the strange speed. According to sources of the sector, this type of authorizations can take at least between 3 and 4 months, never some hours.

Also another interesting thing, is that every Taca Peru flight have the TA code, in the monitors of any airport that this airline operates. TA correspond to Taca not Taca Peru, this airline exists internationally?? If you search for a Taca Peru flight in amadeus.com or any other service you probably will get crazy looking for it, because you are not going to find it. For that reason this airline doesn't exists internationally.

"As you know AeroPeru is history now" Taca said

Yes, Aeroperu has gone thanks to very strange things and one of them could be based in corruption cases in order to favor certain people with the creation of Taca Peru.

"Taca is developing a very good business at LIM Hub" Taca said

Yes, thanks to the routes that were given to Taca under some strange circumstances. Is very interesting that now Taca Peru operates the routes of Aeroperu in alliance with the airline that was benefited with the privatization of the peruvian flag airline and later broke it.

Well, this is just to show to the people that the beginning of Taca Peru wasn't the most pleasant of all. And also to show that Taca Peru is not what everybody thinks.

Have a nice day!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Copa737

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 02:17:38 and read 3992 times.

"Oh well, the beginning of Taca Peru wasn't the best at all. I invite you to investigate more about how Taca Peru began their operations in Peru and you will find that Taca Peru is not the nice story that you want to tell us.

First at all, Taca Peru is not owned by Grupo Taca by the 100% of shares.

Taca Peru was born in the middle of the Peruvian crisis with the former President Alberto Fujimori, and with the collaboration of many high ranking officers of the Peruvian government like Vladimiro Montensinos, a well known person for the famous videos about the Peruvian corruption.

Also Taca Peru was benefited from irregularly authorized permissions to operate their routes. In clear terms, a permission to begin operations can demand several months of troublesome proceedings but in the case of Taca Peru it only took few hours. A record for the bureaucracy of any Latin American country. The merit of this was the strange speed. According to sources of the sector, this type of authorizations can take at least between 3 and 4 months, never some hours.

Also another interesting thing, is that every Taca Peru flight have the TA code, in the monitors of any airport that this airline operates. TA correspond to Taca not Taca Peru, this airline exists internationally?? If you search for a Taca Peru flight in amadeus.com or any other service you probably will get crazy looking for it, because you are not going to find it. For that reason this airline doesn't exists internationally.

"As you know AeroPeru is history now" Taca said

Yes, Aeroperu has gone thanks to very strange things and one of them could be based in corruption cases in order to favor certain people with the creation of Taca Peru.

"Taca is developing a very good business at LIM Hub" Taca said

Yes, thanks to the routes that were given to Taca under some strange circumstances. Is very interesting that now Taca Peru operates the routes of Aeroperu in alliance with the airline that was benefited with the privatization of the peruvian flag airline and later broke it.

Well, this is just to show to the people that the beginning of Taca Peru wasn't the most pleasant of all. And also to show that Taca Peru is not what everybody thinks. "

Copa737

---------------------------------------------

Copa737

I will not follow your little game, but I want to state just a couple of things.

1) The person who allege something, it's the one obligated to prove it.

Can you do that?

Can you prove any relation between Taca Peru and Fujimori and/ or Montesinos?

Otherwise, not me, but Taca it's entitle to an apology by yourself (only if you're a gentleman).

I dare you to prove what you said!!!!!!!! Included that Taca Peru's capital doesn't belongs to Grupo Taca.

I never ever thought that you have such a morbid mind!!!!!!!

2) "If you search for a Taca Peru flight in amadeus.com or any other service you probably will get crazy looking for it, because you are not going to find it. For that reason this airline doesn't exists internationally."

Who said that an airline company, in order to exist, must be "registered" and "appeared" or be located through "amadeus" or "any other service". Do you know what a "Mercantile Registry" is? Also check the Codigo de Derecho Internacional Privado or Codigo de Bustamante (Antonio Sanchez de Bustamente, 1928) (Signed and approved by Panama among many other countries Latin America countries). In order to legally exist, and airline must be first duly incorporated in a Public Mercantil Registry and then obtain the respectives international permits.

2) " Also Taca Peru was benefited from irregularly authorized permissions to operate their routes. In clear terms, a permission to begin operations can demand several months of troublesome proceedings but in the case of Taca Peru it only took few hours. A record for the bureaucracy of any Latin American country. The merit of this was the strange speed. According to sources of the sector, this type of authorizations can take at least between 3 and 4 months, never some hours."

Can you also prove that? I think you can't, but I dare you to do it!!!!!!!


Mr. Copa737: I thought that we were discussing under the rules of a "fair play". Since you are not doing that, I will not continue discussing with you until you prove each statement of your reply No.86. and behave yourself as an adult and not as a angry child.

This not imply that I will not continue defending my points of view.

I also strongly recommend you to check your sources and change them!  Wink/being sarcastic

Good health to you Sir!






Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 02:42:29 and read 3985 times.

"On another subject, what happened to AeroPerú's airplanes (the ones it owned), slots, routes and other assets. Did LANPerú, AeroContinente and TACA Perú bought some of those in the cheap or what?"

Eddie:

I really don't know what happened with AeroPeru's airplanes. All Taca Peru's are brand new A319 and A320, with the Taca and Taca Peru's logo on them (I usually see them here in SJO, CCS or LIM).

We definitely must do some research about AeroPeru's assets and try to obtain an answer to that questions.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards,

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-17 03:26:16 and read 3970 times.

Mr. Taca,

I never ever thought that you have such a morbid mind!!!!!!! Mr. Copa737: I thought that we were discussing under the rules of a "fair play". Since you are not doing that, I will not continue discussing with you until you prove each statement of your reply No.86. and behave yourself as an adult and not as a angry child.

Sorry, but you are saying something that goes against my person, and you must apologize for that.

I'm discussing under the rules of fair play, but this things seems to be true, I read that and I made my own judgments as everyone can do his owns. This type of situations are very common in Latin America and it would be sad if you don't accepts this. Of course this is not good to know to many people, and I really wish that these things would never happens, but you can escape from the reality.

I'm discussing under rules of fair play, but when you read something like this in any source of information and see how they prove that, you can really starts to believe on it, or at least have your doubts. This is a case that appears in every newspaper in Latin America, you should know that, and you must have heard of that.

Also I'm not an angry child, I don't want to think that you despise the opinions of the minor ones, just because their age. Which I think is not your case since you are a Law professor and you deal with a lot of young students. But anything is possible.

I made an error while not putting the source of that information, but here it is, and ask for an apologize to the journalist who wrote this if you think this could not be true or you have something to ask.

I just put that information here in the forum to show what I heard and saw some years ago in the newspapers. Of course you don't have to believe in everything you read or see in the TV, but after repeating the same thing several times it becomes a truth.

http://www.agenciaperu.com/economia/2001/jul/taca2.htm
http://www.agenciaperu.com/investigacion/2001/abr/taca1d.htm
http://www.agenciaperu.com/investigacion/2001/abr/taca1c.htm
http://www.agenciaperu.com/investigacion/2001/abr/taca1e.htm
http://www.agenciaperu.com/investigacion/2001/abr/taca1a.htm

Its not a little game, I didn't make it with that intention, I make it just to show you another facts. This is based in something true, not inventions, when the river sounds is because rocks bring.

I also strongly recommend to you, please be more tolerant with everyone's opinions, if they are not equal to yours is not a reason to don't accept them. I can give my opinion of this case is very very strange! I don't have to give you my reasons to think that, since you may not going to accepts them because I don't think in the same way that you do.

Good health to you too!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Copa737





Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 05:28:57 and read 3923 times.

Copa737

I carefully red the four links you gave in your previous response (they are basically the same). What an actual information you have Sir!!!!!!!!!

Three years has been passed since then, and what happen today? Taca Peru is stronger than ever.

Once again: What a good updated sources you have ? I'm really impressed!!!!!  Wink/being sarcastic

And nothing, but nothing stated there, has been proved three (3) years later. Definitely this is another old, very old, speculation.

Do you know that agenciaperu.com is considered as truthful as Enquirer (sorry Enquirer magazine in the U.S.? Show me something from a serious source next time.

By the way, why do I have to apologize you????????

I simply said the truth!!!!! Or can you prove the contrary with updated truthfully information? I definitely don't think so!!!!!!!


Good health and good night!!!!!!!!!!


Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-17 06:06:21 and read 3905 times.

Well Well, I knew you are going to say this.

"And nothing, but nothing stated there, has been proved three (3) years later. Definitely this is another old, very old, speculation." Taca says.

Well, that is the reason because Latin America is like it is right now. Things like this happens every single day and nothing happens, nobody goes to jail and everything goes as always. Very sad to hear from a Lawyer.

Of course when some people receives some money, the things go on and nothing happens. And we all live happy forever.

Of course the actual information will not show you anything wrong about Taca Peru, because the people threw earth on this problem. And now Taca Peru seems to be a normal company after all.

Take Care,

Copa737

P.S. By the way what is your real name?


Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 06:22:13 and read 3897 times.

Since you apparently like the trash of agenciaperu.com, I strongly recommend you to read:

http://www.agenciaperu.com/reportes/2004/ene/agencias.htm

"Well, that is the reason because Latin America is like it is right now. Things like this happens every single day and nothing happens, nobody goes to jail and everything goes as always. Very sad to hear from a Lawyer."

Yes, I'm a Lawyer. And I'm very proud of be a good one (according with my clients of course, that are not quite few).

I'm not a Judge nor a Congressman. So I don't decide who goes to jail or who remain free. I also don't make the law.

" And now Taca Peru seems to be a normal company after all."

Of course it is. Now and before. But I must add just a simply word to your statement: "successful".

Cheers  Wink/being sarcastic

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-17 06:44:18 and read 3879 times.

Well, nothing to do with people that live in the world of fantasy.

By the way, very nice to talk to you. I don't even know your name but well, have a nice day.

Regards,

Copa737

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 06:45:08 and read 3878 times.

"Well, that is the reason because Latin America is like it is right now. Things like this happens every single day and nothing happens, nobody goes to jail and everything goes as always. Very sad to hear from a Lawyer.

Of course when some people receives some money, the things go on and nothing happens. And we all live happy forever."

------------------------------------------------

Copa737:


Not 100% sure about it. Not even 50, 30 or 10%.

By the way, is Manuel Antonio Noriega still in the Sunshine State?  Wink/being sarcastic

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Copa737
Posted 2004-05-17 06:51:19 and read 3870 times.

"By the way, is Manuel Antonio Noriega still in the Sunshine State?"

Yes it is. But maybe you should go to one of your respected sources of information to find if its true or not. Yes, go!

This is my last post in the forum, thanks to the ones who read the opinions here.

Best Regards and good luck.

Copa737

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: CptGirmayTesfa
Posted 2004-05-17 07:04:03 and read 3849 times.

Thanks for the great info Copa737. I was wondering if you had more info on CM's planned expansions of current routes!

Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 16:10:25 and read 3817 times.

"Yes it is".
Copa737

---------------------------------------

The correct answer is:

"Yes, he is".

And I already knew it.

---------------------------------------
"I was wondering if you had more info on CM's planned expansions of current routes!"

Sorry CptGirmayTesfa

Copa737 posted his last opinion in this forum!!!!!!  Wink/being sarcastic ("This is my last post in the forum, thanks to the ones who read the opinions here.").

Maybe you want to initiate a new one!!!!!!!!!!!




Topic: RE: The End Of A Monopoly For CM And TA
Username: Taca
Posted 2004-05-17 16:31:43 and read 3804 times.

"Well, nothing to do with people that live in the world of fantasy.

By the way, very nice to talk to you. I don't even know your name but well, have a nice day."

-------------------------------------------

I definitely know the meaning of "reality" better than you.

"I don't even know your name ... " Neither do I !!!!!!!!!

You too, have a nice day!  Wink/being sarcastic


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