Hi All,

On my way out of work tonight I noticed AA ship 469 was missing the "Super 80" titles....just wondering if this will be fleet wide or just an isolated incident.

Don

Hey, instead of removing Super 80 title from MD-80's, how about simply removing the MD-80's!!

I know, I know, but it was just too easy to say....

about as big of a fan of em as me, huh?

You got it, Swacle.

IMO, the largest airline in the world, AA, should be flying something more exciting, new, and passenger friendly than the MD-80!!

Cheers,
Texdravid

Mad Dogs need to be put to sleep

AA is removing all the 'Luxury Liner', 'Luxury Jet' and 'Super 80' titles from all their planes.. A cost-cutting thing for sure.. not to mention the 'Luxury Liner' titles are out dated.. a 70s concept, from when flying was supposed to be luxurious. Now, its more of a cattle mover industry..  

MD-80 haters....

I'd take an AA MD-80 over one of their 737 or 757s any day!!!!!

Yeah....the sooner we can kill the champ...the sooner the remaining lesser craft can take over the top spot. I understand your pain. Don't hold your breath though....there will still be plenty of MD-80's flying in 2020, that is if you kids don't run the industry into the ground first. New Business model....yeah right! :p

Maybe they're going to be replaced with "Cattleliner".   No, seriously, probably a costcutting measure. I'll miss the "Luxuryliner" decal though!   The MD-80's aren't that bad. And why didn't it qualify as a "Luxuryjet" ? 

~"And why didn't it qualify as a "Luxuryjet" ?"~

Good question. The F100 was a 'Luxury Jet'.. but why not the S80?.. then again, why not the 727 also?  

IMO, the largest airline in the world, AA, should be flying something more exciting

Yeah, that's a smart way of running an airline! "Hmmm, let's buy something that looks good and is exciting." Like economics and versatility are minor details....

The MD-80's are the backbone of the AA fleet and have served them well. The only one that crashed was when a Chief Pilot, of all people, let ego overtake common sense and landed his '80 in horrible conditions. He paid for that with his life. Costly mistake. But, he did needlessly endanger the lives of others.

Just for the record, I have nothing against MD-80's. I have flown on several with AA, CO, and YX and I think they are just as capable of performing their intended task as well as either the 737 or A32X serise. I do, however, prefer Boeing aircraft. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I AM AN MD-80 OR AIRBUS HATER!!!! So please do not twist my words and start a flame war in my honor =) If it gets from pint A to point B with wings, I am a fan.

Don

I do, however, prefer Boeing aircraft.

MD-80s are Boeing aircraft. Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas a while ago.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/md-80-90/index.html

old MD80's don't die, they just come to Canada....

View Large View Medium

Photo © Derek Hellmann

View Large View Medium

Photo © Garry Lewis - AirTeamImages



so do little FOKKERS


View Large View Medium

Photo © Joseph J. Wagner


View Large View Medium

Photo © Michael Carter


View Large View Medium

Photo © Jonathan Proulx


View Large View Medium

Photo © John Davies


Rik in Alberta

Don't see anything wrong about the MD-80 personally. I flew many in the U.S. and Italy, and I must say it's a great a/c.

AA seems to have always been an airline who bought the cheaper planes no matter how commonality fit. They bought the F-100, CRJ, A300, and they use 777 with RR engines instead of GE or PW engines. Oh Well. Now it is justified.

I guess American finally realized that they're not as "Super" as everyone originally thought  

jeremy

I can remember in the '70's for a while, the 727 were labled as "Luxuryjets" because they were being retrofitted with the new"widebody cabins', but it didn't last long. So was the 707.   Yes, I'm old!  

Tekelberry,

The MD-80 is a McDonnell Douglas aircraft that Boeing just happened to inherit because of a merger. Legally, it is a Boeing, but that's as far as the relationship goes. Kind of like you would never claim your inlaws as your own, but you have to accept them =)

Iflyatldl:

I am older than you are 

I remember when all AA aircraft were all "AstroJets"!

IMO, the largest airline in the world, AA, should be flying something more exciting, new, and passenger friendly than the MD-80!!

WHAT?! I personally find it more exciting to SEE (and ride) an MD-80 as they seem to be on their way out of the general picture. What do you mean by something more exciting? A 737, 757, A320?? Aircraft today have far too much in common when it comes to looks the lack of unique variety is causing a very bland appearance at airports.

The MD-80 is a nice aircraft! The closer you are to the front, the quieter the flight. In first, they are an absolute dream. In coach, if you are on the left towards the front, you will have a very comfortable flight! Why all of the Mad Dog haters? I don't understand why you dislike them so much!

Sam

Whats the difference between the 737,757,767,777 & Airbus series?

LENGTH. The all look the same and it gets boring. You need stuff like the MD80, F100, ARJ, BAe146, 328Jets to make it different.

The AA 80's are a great plane with a smooth ride.

Aircraft today have far too much in common when it comes to looks the lack of unique variety is causing a very bland appearance at airports.

Well said, just look what would happen to AA's fleet if the Md-80's are removed (and we assume the f100 have no future).

View Large View Medium Photo © Kyle Donagher

View Large View Medium Photo © Tim Perkins

View Large View Medium Photo © Michael Meier

View Large View Medium Photo © James Rowson

View Large View Medium

Photo © Kyle Donagher

I have never been on a DC-9/MD80. Why are they so awful? I've seen them take off and their climb performance looks quite incredible. Surely that alone is enough to get the approval of a.netters?

Rich

I am also very old - I remember Astrojets, Astrolines, Luxuryjets, Luxuryliners, the wide-body look interior, first class and coach lounges, etc, etc.

As a cost saving measure, I think that AA is removing the Super 80 titles and Luxuryjet/liner labels from all of the aircraft.....it saves money and the titles, at this point in time, are meaningless. The Super 80 was a name made up by AA anyway, back in the early 1980s when the type was still known as the DC9-81, AA did not want to be accused of replacing 727-100s with the old DC9s, thus the Super 80 was born. Its time to move beyond these names, the Super 80 is not that super and AA's airliners, in 2004, offer very little in the way of luxury.

I know everyone loves to have a go at AA's MD-80s, but I think that the economy cabin is the most roomy of the narrow bodies in the industry. If you get a seat on the two-seater side, with more room throughout coach, (especially in front of the wing - where the MD-80 is nice and quiet) then I would put that up against any other narrow body in North America.

For work I get to ride in the front cabin, and yes I prefer the bigger planes with wider cabins and a higher cruise altitude, but when I am on my own dollar flying in coach, give me an AA MD-80 any day!

Maybe everyone hates the MD-80s because they are actually DC9s and we all know how people bitch, hollar and scream about Northwests 160+ strong fleet of DC9s.
I am a fan of the T-Tail planes and I find it terrible that there are so many designs out there that look A320/737/A300/767/777/757-ish with their two engines on the wing with conventional tails....Blaaaah.
And of course even the EMB-170 series has turned out to look like a baby Airbus....
There is nothing wrong with an MD-80. And I sorely miss mainline 727 operations not to mention mainline DC9 operations. I am sure that Over in Europe there are some that miss the hell out of the BAC 111s. I never got to see them much stateside but they were awesome. Too bad people have to be so self rightious about noise.

Actually what would AA replace their MD-80s with?? If AA was smart, they would bring the Boeing 717 back into their fleets to replace their Fokker 100s.
That would help boost Boeing sales in the arm and also keepa proven airframe designs flying for many years to come.

Oh well, thats about all I have to say.

Access-Air

Access Air - I used to work on the 1-11. It was a hoot in high density 119Y config. The back-to-back seats in the overwing area had to be seen to be believed. Cramped is not the word! People used to be getting off those flights in calipers. I also worked on the 727-100 and -200. The -100 was a heap but the -200 was a lovely quiet aircraft. I think it's a retrograde step to have all these aircraft with engines on the wings, they are so noisy if you sit at the back.
Who has flown on the MD-90? With those lovely quiet IAE engines it must be fantastic at the front of the cabin.

Rb211tn:

I've flown on the MD-90 twice. Very quiet aircraft, even in back near the engines. If your up forward you could swear the thing is a glider it's so quiet.  

I've flown on the MD-90 once and I was seated in front of the wing. Very pleasant flight.

I've flown on the MD-90 twice. Very quiet aircraft, even in back near the engines. If your up forward you could swear the thing is a glider it's so quiet.

That's why they put RPM guages in the cockpit!   Only plane I've flown where you had to LOOK to see if the engines were running. Even the F100 wasn't that quiet!

Everyone who is pro-MD-80 on this site is accusing me and others of hating it just because of its looks on the outside, without taking into account the economics.

That's the farthest from the truth...I bet that it would be prudent to have more NG 737's than these MD-80's. NG 737's are making Southwest and others a ton of money.

I'm sure that a new Airbus product like an A321 is also very economical.

There is more to hate about the MD-80 than its looks. Some of us unlucky ones DO get the rear seat near the engine, some of us HAVE experienced mechanical problems with the aircraft, and these are legitimate reasons not to like the aircraft.

So please understand the above before crucifying people who do not like MD-80's.

Dr. Texdravid,

Would you swap out slightly better examining tables, that you have paid for, for brand new ones that you have to finance, especially when HMO's are cutting your reimbursements? Of course not! The MD-80's obviously are working well for AA. Especially since they'd have to replace over 300 of them. If it made economic sense for them to replace them immediately, they'd do it.

As for getting stuck in the back, you can change your seat on AA.COM if there are seats available. I've only gotten stuck there twice and I've flown them at least 2 dozen times.

Now, as far as "crucifying" MD-80 haters, I was just damn curious. Especially since I actually look forward to flying them rather that the LRTC 757's.

Sam

Why dont the 80's have any TV's

AAR90:

What amazed me about the MD-90 is that you can carry on a normal conversation by the nose of the aircraft with the engines running. Try that with a 737 or MD-80!  

Texdravid:

"Everyone who is pro-MD-80 on this site is accusing me and others of hating it just because of its looks on the outside, without taking into account the economics."

Interesting you would say this considering you referred to MD-80 fans as being on crack.

AA is in the process removing all stickers from their aircraft. They are not removing the luxury jets from the F-100s because they will be leaving the fleet soon anyway. The stickers are cost-excessive and outdated, sadly...I wish it didn't have to be that way...the AA aircraft look awesome with the stickers.

I've flown them as a passenger, and the ride and comfort is ok, as is the noise up front.

However, I've also worked them on the ramp, and I HATE the bins on the MD-80! God! Trying to get an HR out of one of those bins is a nightmare!

BTW, someone said they noticed N469 is missing Super 80 titles. Gee, it took you that long to notice? There are MANY AA MD-80s w/o Super 80 titles..however I am glad that they are keeping the black nose dot   

--Regards,
Thrust

Everyone who is pro-MD-80 on this site is accusing me and others of hating it just because of its looks on the outside, without taking into account the economics.

Texdravid,

These "accusations" you speak of were sparked by the fact you made the comment AA should replace them with something "NEW" and "EXCITING" in your statement:

IMO, the largest airline in the world, AA, should be flying something more exciting, new, and passenger friendly than the MD-80!!

Many people on here would agree that the older aircraft are far more exciting to see and ride, because they are becoming a rarity. New aircraft these days all look the same, inside and out. New aircraft are no doubt a pleasure from a passenger standpoint, but I as well as many others around here have a somewhat sentimental attachment to some of the older aircraft that are slowly on their way out. Now I realize airlines do not function based on what the enthusiast would want, and it's all about economics, but it still hurts to see some aircraft go. AA still flys the MD-80 strong, and I like seeing that.

I am flying from SJC to SEA this coming Friday and I will have the opportunity to fly on a MD-80. I'll tell you...I am more excited about this flight than I have been for any other flight in quite some time (and I fly a handful of times each year) simply because I get to ride an MD-80. It's been a long time since I have been on one and I feel sooner than later, I won't have many opportunities..especially since I mostly fly WN.  

Economics are pointing airlines in the direction of fleet commonality and simplification with the new generation of aircraft and it sucks from an enthusiast standpoint to see such variety disappear.





[Edited 2004-05-31 03:19:51]

I don't understand how removing decals from an aircraft is a cost cutting measure. American has to pay the mechanics to remove them.

I don't understand how removing decals from an aircraft is a cost cutting measure. American has to pay the mechanics to remove them.

Well, one cost they'd cut is the cost of paying the mechanics to replace them as I'm sure they were routinely maintained.  

me of us HAVE experienced mechanical problems with the aircraft,

Right, and we've all experienced mechanical problems on any other plane out there.

I've had just as many 738's (and ER3, F100) take a mech. delay as the S80 when I was a gate agent.

The days of the AA fleet having titles on their forward sections, "Super 80" and "757 Luxury Liner", were numbered when the 737-800s and 777-200s were delivered without titles.

I do think it makes sense to have some sort of aircraft type identification somewhere on the plane. A lot of airlines put "Boeing 747" forward of L5 and R5, and it seems that a lot of Airbuses have "Airbus Industrie" near L1 and R1.

The reasons why Bob Crandell bought MD-80s are twofold. First, AA would have had a long wait to buy 737-200s back in the early 80s. Second, McD basically gave AA the first 20 planes with the right to return the planes, no questions asked. It's called making money.

This was also back when airlines bought planes from several manufacturers, because airlines thought they would get better prices if the fleet didn't come from one company. Now, having planes from 1 manufacturer reduces training and maintenance costs.

Will AA replace the MD-80 with 737s, most likely a combinations of -700s and -800s? Yes. Will it be soon? Probably not. But while the MD-80 has been a very dependable aircraft, it does require C-Checks more frequently than the 727-200s. Even though the airframes, particularly the TWA MD-80s, have a lot of flight time left, there will come a point when the increasing costs of maintaining an aging fleet will justify the expeditures for new 737s. Particalarly when AA still has about 400 production slots with Boeing.

The one question that even pilots and F/As asked back in 1998 and 1999 was why the MD-80 fleet got new interiors and upgraded seats, but no IFE. Considering the amount of long-haul flying that the MD-80s did, it was assumed that IFE was a given. The reason is that the weight of the IFE system could not be justified. It meant reduced range or reduced cargo.

I'm one of the Super 80 lovers - especially after a flight on an American Eagle. Comfort wise the MRTC and only two seats on the port side make it a very nice plane for coach flyers. In First it is about the same as a 737, but quieter. I also appreciate the fact that it can punch through bad weather rather fast after taking off.

Since my first flights were milk-run DC 3s and an Electra I can still appreciate the first 707 and the thrill of being pushed back in my seat on take off. 727's were also on the top of my list in bad weather.

Today the 747 is my first love when I get to sit in the upper deck, followed by the 777 on American's LHR-ORD route. Everything else in terms of a plane is pretty much a commodity. I'm hoping that the Super 80 has a lot of years left - otherwise I'll probably get stuck with a RJ.

Sorry to resurface an old topic here, but I just wanted to share a recent experience. I flew SJC-SEA-SJC on Alaska Airlines MD-80s this past weekend and I absolutely loved every bit of the experience!! I forgot how much I love these planes. It had been over 6 years since the last time I flew one, and 95% of my flying since then has been on 737s sitting right behind the wing. Holy cow! I absolutely cannot believe how quiet those planes are on take-off! I found it very strange..it actually seemed to make the flying sensation actually feel different. Like it was more graceful.... I was sitting just in front of the wing of course, but you do not get that huge roar as the engines spool for take-off. In fact, this has to be the only plane I have ever consciously noticed being louder during cruise than on take-off!

Anyway, I cannot see how or why these planes are hated so much by many people around here. Comfort-wise, it is no different than a 737 or A320 IMO, with the obvious exception of one less seat on one side. The MD-80 is still a winner in my books. I had a great time. I'm glad AA still uses the heck out of them. Gives me more options and opportunities to ride one in the future, especially out of SJC where AA and AS are the only airlines that operate them.

 

I've never liked or used the term Super 80 to describe the mighty MD80. I know it's from when it was known as the DC-9 Series 80 but I've always preferred either DC-9 Series 80 or MD80. It's only semantics, I know.

As much as I love the MD80, it's younger cousin, the 717, is rapidly rising in my estimation. I've had the opportunity to fly on the 717 (AirTran) several times in the last couple of years and it's one sweet airplane. A smooth flying machine. It's substantially quieter, especially in the rear, than the MD80, it's even quieter than the MD90! I do wish AirTran would add a little more leg room, but on the shorter flights the airplane is used on it's not as big a deal.

And it is nice to see a T-tail like the MD80, 717 or F100 in the sea of "look alike" 737s, 757s and A320s. Long live the Mad Dog twins!  

cheers, Ralph

Another smart poster ^^^^^^^   I double everything you said!

Good eye for quality aircraft as well, keep it up!!!! We are truly a dying breed.

Well, if having a variety of aircraft is important, then having the A380 and the 7E7 will be neat!

Re: Now, its more of a cattle mover industry..

Why not put on new titles - "757 Cattle Mover" - would go down a treat in TX.

P.S. I really like the MD-80, esp. the AA MRTC version - very comfortable ride, on the left hand side of the cabin.

"Hey, instead of removing Super 80 title from MD-80's, how about simply removing the MD-80's!!

I know, I know, but it was just too easy to say...."

HA HA HA HA. I agree 100%. Those things are AWFUL. Whenver i fly on one (which is about 2 or 4 times a year) i make an effort to mention to the pilot to get some new planes when i deplane. It looks and feels like it is from WW2, maybe IT IS from WW2.

Whenever i see those "I fly American Airlines" commercials I laugh at the people. They should say "I fly MD-80s and nothing more."

There is nothing "Super" or "Luxury" about anything American uses. I agree that ripping out the MD80 fleet would be one step tword becoming a respectable airline.

I didnt read all the responses here, but I will say this to everyone. The MD-80 series are my absolutely favourite airliners of all time. The first jet I flew on was an MD-83 and since then, no other narrow body could change my preference. I have been on 733,734,738,A320,319,321,B757 and trust me, nothing beats the MD-83. Awesome takeoff, great flight, and really nice and quiet once you are closer to the front. IT looks really awesome from the outside too, sleek, long, aerodynamic, just pure airplane sexiness.   Yeah, I know it is only a plane.

The argument that all modern jets look the same is fallacious and commonly applied to cars, buses and trains alike. I disagree profusely with it, not least because the ability to identify differentials between such objects is a core, if not first step, towards rendering one interested in such objects as an enthusiast.

Moreover, I disagree with the desire to quickly oust the MD-80. I have never flown one, but think they look lovely and would very much like to travel aboard one in the near future. I do, however, appreciate the wish for such high profile airlines as American to lead the way with innovative, new products as a major composition of their fleet.

American Airlines is beginning to do quite well again, but let's face it, they can't afford to replace the MD80's right now. One, because these planes have plenty of life in them. Isn't it funny that the DC-9 lives on, even past the 727? (through the MD-80 and 717 lines of course) ...I think it's great. The DC-9 was a heck of a plane--still is. Northwest has no reason to dump theirs just like AA hasn't got need to oust theirs! They can't afford to right now anyway--do you see AA placing a 100+ (really 300 or so) order for an MD-80 replacement? I sure don't! I don't get why we show hostility for this plane--it's good looking, innovative and all these orders can't be wrong. Geez, Delta has a ton of them, AA has a ton of them...and many other carriers have/had them and were better for it. It's a great plane

Damned MD-80 haters! It's too bad that AA is removing the Super 80 titles  ,but I would go on to say that AA will keep their 80's for a long time 

CaptainK, I must agree with you! My first flight was on one of TWA's MD-83's back in 1997 and it is my #1 favorite airplane. I love the sound of the mighty JT8D's, and the takeoff's are great too. He he he enough from me, I'm starting to sound a bit crazy  

TW