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Topic: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Usair320
Posted 2004-07-07 15:25:07 and read 22021 times.

hi there, i was just wondering who some of the crew were from flight 800 all i know of is captain steve snyder. because there isnt much online about them.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-07 16:07:40 and read 21892 times.

Here is the complete listing. This is from the Washington Post online.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/twa800/list01.htm

Let us never forget all 230 souls who perished on July 17, 1996. May God always keep them in His hand, and give comfort to their families.

And lest we forget: let us always be vigilant of future acts of terror and give us the resolve to respond as necessary. Godspeed 800...


Callas, Dan J. , 22, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Philadelphia

Campbell, Richard G. , 63, TWA Flight 800 flight engineer, of Ridgefield, Conn.

Charbonnier, Jacques, 66, TWA flight 800 crew, of Northport, N.Y.

Charbonnier, Constance, 49, TWA flight 800 crew, of Northport, N.Y.

Christopher, Janet, 48, TWA flight 800 crew, of Brodheadsville, Pa.

DiLuccio, Debra Collins, 47, TWA flight 800 crew, of Agropoli, Italy; formerly of Athens, Ga.

Johnsen, Arlene E. , 60, TWA Flight 800 flight attendant, owned a bed and breakfast, of Grand Junction, Colo.

Kevorkian, Capt. Ralph G. , 58, TWA Flight 800 pilot, of Garden Grove, Calif.

Krick, Oliver, 25, TWA Flight 800 flight engineer, of St. Louis.

Lang, Raymond, 51, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Tafton, Pa.

Lockhart, Maureen, 49, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Merriam, Kan.

Meade, Sandra, 42, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Camano Island, Wash.

Melotin, Grace, 48, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Corona, N.Y.; Jupiter, Fla.

Rhoads, Marit, 48, TWA Flight 800 crew, Bellevue, Wash. (married to Scott Rhoads)

Schuldt, Michael, 51, TWA Flight 800 Crew, Safety Harbor, Fla.

Snyder, Capt. Steven, 57, TWA Flight 800 pilot, Stratford, Conn.

Torche, Melinda, 47, TWA Flight 800 crew, Mission Viejo, Calif.

Ziemkiewicz, Jill, 24, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Rutherford, N.J.


Additionally, these were off-duty TWA employees who were also onboard:

Aikens-Bellamy, Sandra, 49, off-duty TWA employee, of New York City

Braman-Mosberg, Rosemary, 47, off-duty TWA employee, of Hoboken, N.J

Carven, Paula, off-duty TWA flight attendant and part-time real-estate agent, of Bel Air, Md. (son, Jay Carven, age 9 also aboard)

Dodge, Warren, 50, off-duty TWA employee, of Brentwood, N.H., and Ashland, Mass.

Edwards, Daryl, 41, off-duty TWA service supervisor, Jersey City, N.J.

Eshleman, Douglas A. , 35, off-duty TWA flight engineer, of Aurora, Colo.

Gough, Analei Ralli, off-duty TWA flight attendant, of Mill Valley, Calif. (married to Donald Gough)

Gough, Capt. Donald, off-duty TWA pilot, of Mill Valley, Calif., and Incline Village, Nev. (married to Analei Gough)

Griffith, Joanne, 39, off-duty TWA employee, of Brooklyn, N.Y.

Harkness, Eric, 23, off-duty TWA employee, of Columbus, Ohio.

Hull, James, 48, off-duty TWA employee, of Southampton, Pa.

Ingenhuett, Lonnie, 43, off-duty TWA employee, of Scottsdale, Ariz.

Kwan, Barbara, 40, off-duty TWA employee, of Scottsdale, Ariz.

Loffredo, Elaine, 50, off-duty TWA employee, of Glastonbury, Conn.

Luevano, Jr., Elias, 42, off-duty TWA employee, of Albuquerque, N.M.

McPherson, Pamela Cobb, 45, off-duty TWA employee, of New York City

Miller, Gideon, 57, off-duty TWA pilot, of Sarasota, Fla.

Rhoads, Scott, 48, schoolteacher, Bellevue, Wash. (married to Marit Rhoads).

Simmons, Olivia, 50, schoolteacher and off-duty part-time TWA employee, Orange, N.J.

Verhaeghe, Rick L. , off-duty TWA flight officer, 48, Goldsboro, N.C.




 Crying




Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Oly720man
Posted 2004-07-07 16:12:59 and read 21844 times.

http://twa800.com/pages/victims.htm


http://twa800.com/index.htm

Andy

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Rjpieces
Posted 2004-07-07 20:25:16 and read 21545 times.

Wow, I didn't realize how many non-Revs were on TWA 800. I can't imagine how much of a blow it was on company morale, losing so many senior employees.

Also, it was shocking how old most of the employees were. TWA really was filled with oldtimers. RIP.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2004-07-07 22:17:41 and read 21426 times.

If I remember right there was a crew being repositioned on board this flight.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Bohica
Posted 2004-07-07 22:55:12 and read 21332 times.

May they all rest in peace.  Sad

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Solnabo
Posted 2004-07-07 23:10:56 and read 21291 times.

Im not religous, but I hope and know they are at peace  Sad

Mike/SE

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-08 00:01:54 and read 21219 times.

Rest in peace indeed. And may we also pray that we get closure and justice to the families...with the anniversary 10 days from now, you can bet there will be more discussion about the truth of the tragedy.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Richierich
Posted 2004-07-08 00:40:49 and read 21144 times.

What, is it 2006? Slider, you mean the 8th anniversary is just days away.

I'll always remember the horrible summer of 1996 because it was a tough one for the US (and worldwide) aviation community. In May, there was the ValuJet crash which claimed 110 or so lives, and then TWA 800 snatched another 230 from us.

I remember July 17, 1996, very well as it was a typical hot, humid and sweaty night here in Southern New England. I remember looking at the sinking sun that night, unaware of the horror that was unfolding in the skies less than 50 miles from me. I always think about the school group from Pennsylvania that was on-board that night - it is something that I think about every now and again because it is just so tragic and so sad. I also think about the crew and how they powerless they were to prevent such an awful event. I have spoken with former TWA flight attendants and they usually knew most, if not all, of the crew that was lost. They describe unbelievable grief that surrounded TWA in the days after the crash and yet they still had to go to work on put on a brave face. I'm sure the accident also contributed (or hastened) the demise of a great airline.

God Bless all on TWA 800, 7/17/96.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: MattCLE
Posted 2004-07-08 02:58:26 and read 21018 times.

I was 14 at the time, and I remember I was in my bedroom listening to the radio (Q-104 to be exact) and I remember the male DJ saying a 747 had exploded after take off from JFK. I went downstairs and told my sister, who was watching TV at the time, to turn on CNN. The first images I saw was the burning wreckage in the water. I remember the next morning watching CNN the whole day. I can't believe it's going on 8 years.

-Matt

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Cx123
Posted 2004-07-08 03:25:06 and read 20964 times.

What actually happened on the TWA800 flight??

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Theflcowboy
Posted 2004-07-08 04:25:05 and read 20815 times.

NTSB says chaffed wiring heated the center fuel tank which ignited vapors in the empty tank.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Cx123
Posted 2004-07-08 04:27:23 and read 20803 times.

But wasn't there some speculation about Terrorist bombings or something like that?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: UA777222
Posted 2004-07-08 05:27:50 and read 20478 times.

Both I and friend I have in the military think that it had something to do with a missile test that was going on at the time of the incident. If you look at the a/c when it's put together its funny how there's a big hole in the damn thing... Hmmmmm bad wiring. And let's see how many other 747's are having this issue??????

RIP to the many fine and innocent soles lost on that tragic day. I too remember seeing the flames in the water at night and just thinking it was some oil spill then to later find out the bad news..

UA777222

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Bristolflyer
Posted 2004-07-08 05:54:49 and read 20334 times.

UA777222, if the wires had ignited fumes (as per Theflcowboy's reply) then there would have been an explosion that caused the hole.

BF

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: UA777222
Posted 2004-07-08 06:13:22 and read 20245 times.

And my next ? is how many other 747's have had this issue. I find it very impossible to have just one large jetliner with just one issue. It's not like they hire one crew to build one a/c then just dump them and then rehire for the next a/c. How many of the same a/c were grounded until they could be inspected in the same area. How unlike anyother day was this day? You can't blame it all on the a/c b/c this is unseen any where else and I don't recall this a/c being any different from that of the other xx amount the rolled off the assembly line at Boeing.

Yes I guess if the wires burnt they would cause a whole but just as much as you can say that you can say a missile will shoot a hole right through a 747....

UA777222

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Planeviewnyc
Posted 2004-07-08 06:18:36 and read 20221 times.

I remember walking home from my friend's house that very hot and muggy night here in Queens, a few miles from JFK. We had rented a movie or something and had not heard any news. During that 10 minute walk, perhaps around 11pm, I noticed how eerily still the air was, and how quiet the neighborhood was. When I got home, I happened to turn on the radio and heard the horrible news. I'm not one for premonitions, but that night I sure had a weird feeling walking home before I had known what had happened.

The following week, I learned that a hockey teammate of mine was meant to be on Flight 800 with his family, connecting in Paris for a trip to Rome. They had changed their reservation to a direct flight only a couple of days before.  Wow!

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Rjpieces
Posted 2004-07-08 06:34:22 and read 20160 times.

The next day, July 18th, I flew on Carnival Airlines JFK-FLL. They used Terminal 6 at JFK, TWA's domestic terminal. I remember checking in that morning and how utterly sad the whole scene was. Many of the agents had friends on TWA 800 and there were still family members flying in--A horribly sad time.

I do believe the stories that the military accidentally shot down TWA 800. There is just too much evidence. The Navy was testing a new SAM missile that night, the photos at the Long Island beach of missile streaks in the air, a small blip appearing right next to TW 800 before the explosion, and more. There are several books on the topic.

What I also find very convincing is that the rumors surfaced immediately. This isn't something that came up months later. From the night it went down, the press and many people were talking about the possibility of it having been shot down. It was only later that the center fuel tank explosion became the "accepted reason"

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: BCAL
Posted 2004-07-08 10:08:18 and read 19528 times.

What books would members of the forum suggest provide the best theories and explanations for the TWA 800 accident? I am unconvinced that the accident was caused by an igniting centre fuel tank as if this was the case surely all other 747s would have been grounded for checks?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Aa717driver
Posted 2004-07-08 11:55:35 and read 19193 times.

Over 150 witnesses along the beach on Long Island reported seeing an object streaking up in the sky prior to the explosion. They ranged from military pilots to all kinds of professional people. They were ALL interrogated by the FBI and told they must be mistaken. Insane

NONE of their testimony was presented at the NTSB hearing. The conventional wisdom around TWA was that this was an attempt by terrorists on the EL AL flight immediately ahead of 800 that missed. The Clinton administration(or any other administration for that matter) could not possibly have admitted that terrorists could possess SAM's with that capability(although we all know they are available for a price).

The sad and disgusting legacy of Flight 800 was apparent to more than a few TWA employees(including myself and my wife) who shamefully admitted that when the second airplane hit the WTC on 9/11 our first thought was "well, at least they can't say it was an accident."

This thread brings back memories and emotions of a time that ended up derailing TWA's financial recovery and forcing us back to Carl Icahn for money.

More than that, the incident with its attendant bad press coverage and negative image of TWA broke the spirit of so many who had labored so long to help our beloved airline right itself. ALL of us knew several people on that flight. Twenty percent of those killed were employees or relatives. My daughter later travelled to France with her schoolmates--my heart goes out to the parents of those with the school group from Pennsylvania who were on 800.

 Sad  SadTC
TWA DOH 30 December 1988

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Canoecarrier
Posted 2004-07-08 12:23:57 and read 19089 times.

The most sobering story I heard about this flight was from someone who worked at JFK when this happened. He said that the TW crew not only heard about the crash, but they had to check-in and board the TLV flight after knowing what had happened to Flight 800. I cannot even imagine what they felt, knowing they had closed the door on almost 300 people who died, then had to keep working.....

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Sulman
Posted 2004-07-08 12:32:34 and read 19042 times.

It was an accident. Fuel/vapour tank explosions under similar circumstances are certainly not a new phenomenon. Read the NTSB report - they were exhaustive in reaching their conclusion, and they were quite literally delayed by the constant conspiracy theories being flung about.


Can't these people be allowed to rest in peace?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Zrb2
Posted 2004-07-08 13:56:10 and read 18678 times.

There are too many whistle blowers in the USA. If they had any evidence it was a missile, surely several people on the "inside" would have come forward by now to expose the truth. This isn't the old Eastern bloc where you can hide something that big.

My only conspiracy theory was maybe it was someone on board like the guy a few years ago who tried to light up a plastic explosive in his sneaker on an AA transatlantic flight. If your sitting over the center tanks, a small explosive could do that damage. TWA 800 happened well before that AA incident. I'm sure, however, the FBI and whoever did serious backround checks of everyone on that ill fated flight.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Jfkviaphx
Posted 2004-07-08 14:07:59 and read 18602 times.

I was sitting in my cousins boat on LI Sound watching all the fireworks that night. When we arrived back at the dock his girlfriend met us there and told us the news. My GF at the time was with me on the boat and had to cater the PA children's families memorial service.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2004-07-08 14:48:37 and read 18385 times.

If your sitting over the center tanks, a small explosive could do that damage.

It's pretty hard to blow a hole through a bulhead, even a thin one.

Even if you did blow that hole, jet fuel is resonably hard to ignite.

The investigation even saw how one of the baffles in the tank had crashed into the one front bulkhead. Wouldn't a missile have been more likely to hit an engine. This of course assumes it was heatseeking. In case of an optically guided one, it's a different story, but the plane was pretty high up and to get to that altitude you need some pretty serious missile hardware. Not something you can hide in a small truck or whatever.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Ezycrew
Posted 2004-07-08 14:54:06 and read 18352 times.

I had been laid off by TWA a few months before the crash and it broke my heart. Some of the crews were high profile personalities at TWA/JFK, such as Jacques and Connie Charbonnier.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Delboy
Posted 2004-07-08 14:59:21 and read 18325 times.


Scottys

Didn't understand a single word of your posting.

This topic has been done and redone, why haven't the moderators steered everyone to the original threads?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Md80fanatic
Posted 2004-07-08 15:01:52 and read 18317 times.

The fact that many here are questioning the official story is quite a revealing tidbit in itself. And I thought the NTSB was vaunted as "godlike" by A.netters up until now that is.



Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: HlywdCatft
Posted 2004-07-08 15:09:37 and read 18271 times.

It was an election year. What do you think a big terrorist attack like that would have done to Clinton's image if they revealed it was a terrorist attack?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2004-07-08 15:25:11 and read 18189 times.

It was an election year. What do you think a big terrorist attack like that would have done to Clinton's image if they revealed it was a terrorist attack

Now that's paranoid  Big grin Seriously, do you think that many people could keep a secret for this long...

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-08 15:44:37 and read 18147 times.

Well, I know this subject is a sensitive one for many, but I'm here to tell you that I strongly believe that it was in fact an act of terror--ignored just as numerous others against the US since that fateful day in Nov 1979 when the US Embassy in Teheran went down. TW800 is different, however, for a number of reasons. Pardon my rant here, but I've done a great deal of research and reading myself into the subject and I have zero credence in the NTSB's conclusions.

To whit:
* July 17, the date of TW800, is also Liberation Day in Iraq, the anniversary of Saddam's Baath party taking control.
* Two days before the Atlanta Summer Olympics started.
* The Khobar Towers bombing occurred 3 weeks earlier.
* US military was on its highest state of alert in decades.
* Numerous warnings from noted terrorist groups, including the Islamic Change Movement, an Iraqi intelligence arm.
* The evidence itself, GROSSLY ignores the terror option and the NTSB's own findings itself are based on unsupported theory, not proof.
* Richard Clarke's discussion of TW800 in his much-ballyhooed book is factually incorrect if not outright lies; this can be proven.

I'm providing a link at the bottom to the work of Jack Cashill, who along with James Sanders, wrote "First Strike," the authoritative book regarding TW800 and the subsequent investigation. His online resources via WND.com are incredible...I would strongly encourage anyone to spend some time reading about it and make up your mind yourself. Also, do a Google search for TWA Flight 800 and you'll come across numerous websites that are not simply kooks, but well-thought out and well-supported claims that all solidify the case for a terrorist act.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39129

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-08 15:48:34 and read 18147 times.

Compliments of Jack Cashill....also, if anyone is interested in various articles that substantiate this act of terrorism, please e-mail me and I'll be happy to send, as it is voluminous. Also, check out www.twa800.com.

The TWA Flight 800 Index

7
The number of years this crime has gone unsolved.

270
The number of eyewitnesses that the FBI admitted saw what appeared to be ascending streaks of light.

34
The number of eyewitnesses interviewed by analysts from the Defense Intelligence Agency’s Missile and Space Intelligence Center whose descriptions “were very consistent with the characteristics of the flight of [surface to air] missiles.”

1
The number of eyewitnesses the New York Times interviewed.

0
The number of eyewitnesses that the New York Times interviewed who had seen an ascending streak.

1
The number of witnesses, according to the CIA, who confused the crippled and allegedly ascending TWA 800 with a missile (“the man on the bridge.”)

1
The number of interviews that the CIA fully fabricated (“the man on the bridge”).

3200
The number of feet the CIA claimed the nose-less plane climbed.

1700
The number of feet the NTSB claimed the nose-less plane climbed.

0
Of the roughly 750 total FBI eyewitnesses the number who told the FBI they saw the nose-less plane climb at all, including other airline pilots.

12
“Or less.” The number of total eyewitnesses that, a year later, the New York Times was reporting had seen the crash.

0
The number of Freedom of Information Act requests to which the NTSB has responded in regards to its climb calculations.

0
The number of ships or subs the Navy claimed were within 185 miles of the disaster.

4
The number of Navy ships or subs the FBI, in its final report, admitted was in “the immediate vicinity” of the disaster.

7
The number of days it allegedly took the Navy to find the black boxes in 130 feet of calm water off the Hamptons.

7
The number of hours it actually took the Navy to find the black boxes of a crashed Turkish airplane in 7200 feet of water earlier in that year off the Dominican Republic.

4
The number of seconds missing at the end of both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.

3
The number of satellites in position to record the disaster.

3
The number of satellites reportedly broken at that very moment.

0
The number of times the New York Times used the word “military” or “satellite” in the first two months of reporting on TWA 800.

5
The number of minutes it took the Department of Defense to alert Russia that one of our satellites had spotted a Ukranian missile accidentally downing one of its aircraft over the Black Sea in October 2001.

5
The number of different official explanations authorities gave for what the FAA radar technicians had seen “merge” with TWA Flight 800 on the night of July 17.

116
The number of pieces of “suspicious” debris, many of which had tested positive for explosive residue in Long island, that were sent to the notorious FBI lab in Washington.

116
The number of pieces of suspicious debris that were never heard of again.

150
Roughly the number of airline pilots I have communicated with since the book came out.

3
The number who believed that mechanical failure had destroyed the airplane.

200
The number of (local) TV and radio interviews I have done since the book came out.

190
The number of interviewers who were largely or completely supportive.

100
The number, roughly, that had actually read the book.

27
The number of mainstream media reporters and producers I have talked to since the book came out.

1
The number who were largely or completely supportive.

1
The number who had read the book.

3
The number who said, “Clinton would never do anything like that.”

3
The number of pages Michael Isikoff of Newsweek volunteered to read.

3
The number of whistleblowers arrested for trying to undo the cover-up.

2
The book’s highest spike on Amazon.com.

0
The number of mainstream articles, reviews, or interviews on the book.

2
The number of times Senator John Kerry referred to the destruction of TWA 800 as a terrorist act on national TV.

0
The number of references to TWA Flight 800 in the Senate Select Committee on Intelligent Report in 1996 and 1997, on which committee Senator Kerry sat.

230
The number of good souls whose memories deserve much better than eight years of deceit.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Richierich
Posted 2004-07-08 16:57:27 and read 18088 times.

Wow - that was quite a read, Slider.

I don't think we'll ever be satisfied with the "truth" behind TWA 800. If it was truly a center fuel tank explosion ("747s don't just fall out of the sky"), then people will always believe there was a coverup to the missile theory.

Personally, I'm muddled. I want to believe the official NTSB/FBI reason - not because it makes me feel safer when flying - but because I want to put some trust behind their findings. But I've heard all of the conspiracy theorists and wonder if there is some truth to it. 13,000 feet is pretty high for a missile, so it had to be some sophisticated stuff.

As a society, we don't like to think or accept that terrorism could happen to us, but since 9/11, that has all changed. As some people have claimed, was TWA800 the first volley against the US by al-qaeda? Or was it a naval mistake of the worst kind, followed by an equally big coverup?

We all have our beliefs and what we choose to accept as the "truth". But as in any crash, lets not forget the human factor behind it. Those 230 people probably didn't have time to think "missile", "bomb" or "center fuel tank explosion". I often think it must have been a miserable way to die. As it has on many occasion, my heart goes out to their memories and to their families. RIP.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2004-07-08 17:25:13 and read 18048 times.

>>>The fact that many here are questioning the official story is quite a revealing tidbit in itself.<<<

Not really. People are free to question whatever they please. But accident investigation, thankfully, isn't junk science. It is methodical investigation based on facts.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Spacecadet
Posted 2004-07-08 17:47:46 and read 18010 times.

Jeeze, the conspiracy theorists just will not go away on this one, will they?

How many of the conspiracy theorists have actually read the NTSB report? I don't mean a synopsis, I don't mean skimming it, I mean sat there and read it, every single word, digested it, actually made an effort to understand the science involved behind it and the way these aircraft are designed.

Someone said "if it was the wiring, surely all 747's would have been grounded". You could have said the same thing about 747 cargo doors after a Pan Am 747 had one open on climb. It didn't happen, and a couple years later a United 747 experienced explosive decompression (and the loss of a dozen or so lives) as the same cargo door ripped off the fuselage, for the same reason the Pan Am's cargo door opened on climb.

The simple fact is the FAA has to balance the likelihood of an accident with the economics of the industry. It's unfortunate but it's their mandate. TWA 800 was something that had never happened to any other 747 in decades of flying, and it's unlikely it would ever happen again - so several AD's were issued, including one that said center fuel tanks should not be left empty until wiring was checked and/or replaced. But it's extremely rare for any model of aircraft to be completely grounded after any accident.

I would suggest that all the conspiracy theorists actually read the NTSB report, from top to bottom, and if you come back here and still don't believe it, then there's really no point even talking about it anymore, because you're just going to believe what you want to believe, despite any evidence to the contrary (and we're not just talking lack of evidence of a missile or a bomb, where talking conclusive evidence that there was no missile or a bomb, from the fracture pattern of the fuel and cargo compartments to the speed of the explosion).

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Rjpieces
Posted 2004-07-08 19:33:14 and read 17912 times.

Some of the crews were high profile personalities at TWA/JFK, such as Jacques and Connie Charbonnier.

How were they high profile personalities...?

Slider, interesting points...What do you think happened?

BCAL, a few years back I read "The Downing of TWA Flight 800" by James Sanders.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Jfkviaphx
Posted 2004-07-08 20:17:53 and read 17875 times.

Jet fuel in it's liquid form is hard to ignite. However when it's down to vapors it will go up like the 4th of July. There were minimum requirements right after TWA 800 went down saying if you are to have fuel in the center tank it needed to be over 5000 lbs. That around 746 gallons. This will help to reduce vapors in the tank.

If you were to throw a lit cigarette into a full tanker it would go out. Don't try it when the tanker is half full.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-08 20:19:56 and read 17870 times.

Richie- Good post, but 13k feet isn't out of reach for a standard Stinger (in fact, Richard Clarke claimed the plane was at 17k feet, totally erroneous, as the radar track shows). Fired from a variety of locations available on the water, it's totally plausible. When 270 peolpe have a similarly correlated eyewitness story about seeing a streak of light arcing toward the A/C, it's even more plausible--if not likely when the chemical residue, the debris and blast patterns and such are factored in.

Spacecadet- I have read the NTSB report in its entirety and have a hard copy in my library at home, in fact. There are several factual items omitted, and Cashill goes into that, as well as Cmdr. Donaldson, into great detail. Perhaps I'm mistaking the intent of your post--are you saying the FAA and NTSB ignored the facts for the sake of preserving the economics of the airline industry? What could jeopardize the industry MORE by not confronting the very real threat of terrorist acts against aircraft?

ALso, the NTSB conveniently ignored the PETN residue evidence, the blast patterns thereof (notably rows 17 and 23) not to mention that almost no scientific proof could conclusively be gleaned from the re-enactment of a 747 with the same load, fuel capacity, with packs having been run near the center tank for hours before, and yet the temp actually dropped upon takeoff. In other words, the NTSB's report is conveniently spun around loose facts to support their conclusion only to the point of being defensible, not not authoritative. I compare it to the Aloha 432 incident (ironically that we just discussed in that other thread) in that the NTSB's conlusion has merit, but isn't the full story when the fluid hammer notion is introduced. But I digress...

Presently, James Sanders is bringing a civil suit against the federal govt and a federal judge approved the discovery process back in APril....if this snowball gets rolling, major shit will happen. This article (see below) goes into a bit more detail as to the deliberate orchestrated efforts to destroy Sanders for exposing the truth.

What do I think happened? I do believe--not strictly out of some partisan conspiracy kook motivation--that it was an act of terror. I make that conclusion based on the body of evidence that exists as well as the bigger picture context. For years, America had its head up its own ass with regard to terrorism. It caught up to us. Teheran, Khobar, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, WTC 1993, USS Cole, Achille Lauro, etc, etc....against the political backdrop of July 1996, it's entirely plausible (one could even argue not surprising given the pattern of behavior from Clinton) that covering it up was the favorable tack.

Along with the other websites I posted links for, this is a good single article, but also at the bottom has links to literally dozens of different articles, theses and items pertaining to 800...again, if you have the time or inclination to find out, it's worth it.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38180



[Edited 2004-07-08 20:25:07]

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-08 20:36:53 and read 17848 times.

Spacecadet- I forgot to also ask you, if this was an accident, then why hasn't the NTSB responded to over a dozen Freedom of Information Act requests (FOIA) for the release of the rest of the supporting documentation from TW800?

Specifically, they refuse to release the TAGS database of where all of the wreckage from TW800 was recovered. The location and nature of each part and where it was found is pretty critical evidence, wouldn't you think?

The exhaustive catalog has not been disclosed, even though that databse is part of the public docket.

What are they hiding? After all, it's just a fluky center fuel tank explosion right?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Rjpieces
Posted 2004-07-08 20:39:32 and read 17850 times.

Do you think it was meant for the El Al flight ahead of it? Why do you think no terrorist group ever took credit for it...And also what about the terrorists who would have shot the missile?

I think a much more plausible explanation is that the Navy accidentally shot it down......Weren't they testing a brand new SAM that night, with a bogey missile fired from Long Island? And then the crew of the cruiser that fired the missile was dispersed soon after? Plus all the talk of submarines and P-3s in the area. And just south of TWA 800 was military airspace..........There seems to be a lot more evidence that the Navy accidentaly shot it down rather than terrorists.....Just because there were terrorst attacks before and after is not solid evidence.

If terrorists were going to shoot it down, wouldn't it have been much easier to park a small boat in Jamaica Bay and shoot her down on takeoff, rather than waiting to hit her at 13,000 feet in the middle of the ocean?

This thread is making me want to reread James Sander's book.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-08 20:50:04 and read 17824 times.

It actually was claimed by a terrorist group, another fact that is ignored:

The slamic Change Movement--they also took responsibility for the Riyadh bombing in 1995 that killed five Americans and two Indian nationals, and the Khobar Towers bombing.

Paraphrased from Cashill:

On 7/17/96, they issued a warning: "The mujahideen will deliver the ultimate response to the threats of the foolish American president. Everyone will be amazed at the size of that response. Their time is at the morning-dawn. Is not the morning-dawn near?"

Dawn in Afghanistan corresponded almost exactly to dusk in New York, the moment of TWA Flight 800's demise.

The State Department failed to note that on this same day, July 18, the Islamic Change Movement released another communique through well-established Islamist terrorist channels in Beirut. It read in part, "We carried out our promise with the plane attack of yesterday."

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2004-07-08 21:33:23 and read 17772 times.

>>>I'm providing a link at the bottom to the work of Jack Cashill, who along with James Sanders, wrote "First Strike," the authoritative book regarding TW800 and the subsequent investigation. His online resources via WND.com are incredible...I would strongly encourage anyone to spend some time reading about it and make up your mind yourself. Also, do a Google search for TWA Flight 800 and you'll come across numerous websites that are not simply kooks, but well-thought out and well-supported claims that all solidify the case for a terrorist act.<<<

Hey, for those interested, why not look up this link http://www.ntsb.gov/events/TWA800/default.htm

Then read the crackpot book. Smile

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: NightFlier
Posted 2004-07-08 21:39:48 and read 17751 times.

I recall this accident when It happen. My Grandfather and I sat at the television for days and wacthed the events unfold day by day. News 12 Long Island followed the story 24 hrs a day for 2 weeks after the incident. But on a much lighter note the memorial that was put near the crash site is beautiful, so beautiful that after I had seen it I felt the need to contribute to it myself. Any one else interested in sending a donation should contact " The Families Of TWA Flight 800 Association, INC". And to the families and passengers who were effected by this incident may they one day find a moments rest.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Thrust
Posted 2004-07-08 22:12:06 and read 17708 times.

Yesterday or two days ago on the History Channel, on "Engineering Disasters", Flight 800 was included among one of the many fatal ones. The video completely failed to mention the missile theory....but I'm personally convinced there would have been missile traces that would've been found if this theory were true...most likely mechanical failure and faulty wiring were the causes of the crash. R.I.P.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-09 01:30:37 and read 17623 times.

Yesterday or two days ago on the History Channel, on "Engineering Disasters", Flight 800 was included among one of the many fatal ones. The video completely failed to mention the missile theory....but I'm personally convinced there would have been missile traces that would've been found if this theory were true...most likely mechanical failure and faulty wiring were the causes of the crash. R.I.P.

There WERE missile traces!! Residue not only from PETN but also several stained seats that correlate to rocket motor fuel. Again, I refer to you the vast body of evidence that exists...it is out there. The pieces fit together in a macabre puzzle.

And FDX- throwing out epithets isn't the way to dispute the theory; if you want to discuss the issue on a basis of fact and intellect, I welcome it. But simply yelling 'crackpot' only lessens your credibility. Sanders, Cashill and numerous others have all been labeled as crackpot kookballs for trying to uncover the truth about 230 innocent people being murdered and yet childish name-calling abounds...how classy.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Rjpieces
Posted 2004-07-09 01:44:40 and read 17608 times.

It seems pretty clear there to me that there was a missile.....It's just a question of whether the missile was shot at TWA 800 from the terrorists, was shot from the military trying to shoot down a terrorist plane, or was shot from the military and accidentally shot down TWA 800.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2004-07-09 03:11:44 and read 17549 times.

>>>here WERE missile traces!! Residue not only from PETN but also several stained seats that correlate to rocket motor fuel. Again, I refer to you the vast body of evidence that exists...it is out there. The pieces fit together in a macabre puzzle.<<<<


The following excerpt from...
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/TWA800/Transcript_8_22.htm

I urge anyone interested in TWA800 to read this.

Very interesting reading.

We also considered the possibility of a bomb or missile. However, high-energy explosions leave distinctive damage signatures on the airplane's structure, such as severe pitting, cratering, hot gas washing, and petaling. No such damage was found on any portion of the recovered airplane structure, and as you know, more than 95 percent of the airplane was recovered. Our investigators, together with many outside participants from the parties to the investigation, closely examined every piece of recovered wreckage. All of the participants agreed that none of the wreckage exhibited any of the damage characteristics of a high-energy explosion - that is, of a bomb or a missile.

Further, no missing portions of fuselage were large enough to represent the entry of a missile. You may have noticed that some of the photographs of the reconstruction show what appear to be several large missing areas, such as those that are shown on the screen now. However, almost all of the fuselage structure in these areas is actually attached to the adjacent pieces, but has been folded back or crushed in such a way that it does not cover its original area. Therefore, these large gaps that appear to exist in the reconstructed fuselage do not represent areas of damage that could have been caused by a missile.

In addition, we found no localized area of severe thermal or fragmentation pieces and no localized severe damage or fragmentation of the seats, such as would be expected if a high-energy explosive device had detonated inside the airplane. The injuries to the occupants and the damage to the airplane were fully consistent with an in-flight break-up and subsequent water impact. In light of all this evidence, a bomb or missile strike has been ruled out as an initiating event of the in-flight break-up.

The FBI did find trace amounts of explosive residue on three pieces of the wreckage. However, these three pieces contain no evidence of pitting, cratering, hot gas washing, or petaling, which would have been there had these trace amounts resulted from a bomb or missile. Further, these trace amounts could have been transferred to these pieces in various ways. For example, in connecting with ferrying troops during the Gulf War or during dog-training explosive detection exercises that were conducted on the accident airplane about one month before the accident. There is also the possibility that the explosive residues could have been deposited on the wreckage during or after the recovery operations as a result of contact with the military personnel, ships, and vehicles used during those operations. We don't know exactly how the explosive residues got there - but we do know from the physical evidence I've just discussed that the residues were not the result of the detonation of a bomb.





Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: BartiniMan
Posted 2004-07-09 03:29:12 and read 17521 times.

A NTSB video recreation
http://twa800.com/videos/breakup.mov 4.3Mb

http://www.twa800.com/index.htm

BartiniMan

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2004-07-09 03:35:35 and read 17512 times.

This NTSB transcript discusses eyewitness accounts.

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/TWA800/Transcript_8_23_3.htm

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: 7673mech
Posted 2004-07-09 09:40:57 and read 17339 times.

The disaster was truly devastating for TWA.
On the morning of the accident we announced the first profits in years.
It took the wind out of our sails.

While we should let those who perished Rest in Peace, we should not let their memory be forgotten.

There are definite holes in the NTSB,FBI stories.

No one wants to mention the after the accident most of TWA's senior officers who turned the airline around left the company. Several left the country.

TWA had 12 757's on order the morning of the accident, we took delivery of 27, how did they get funded? Is it a coincidence that after the accident TWA went from one of the oldest fleets to one of the youngest? In 99-00 we took delivery of a new airplane every 3 days.

There were parts off loaded at a dock in Queens that never made it out to the reconstruction site.

There were mechanics who helped with the reconstruction that never returned to work.

Coincidence?



Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: ZSSNC
Posted 2004-07-09 15:36:01 and read 17193 times.

One of my colleagues at SAA was part of the TWA care team. She is absolutely convinced that the plane was shot down and that the official investigation is a cover up. Allegedly high ranking TWA employees got positions with the FBI after the crash.

If she is right it is unbelievable what certain people in the government can do to stay in power. And it is sad that an airline disappeared because of that. From what she told me TWA was a great airline to work for.

ZSSNC

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2004-07-09 17:35:59 and read 17127 times.

>>>TWA had 12 757's on order the morning of the accident, we took delivery of 27, how did they get funded? Is it a coincidence that after the accident TWA went from one of the oldest fleets to one of the youngest? In 99-00 we took delivery of a new airplane every 3 days.<<<

I was a mechanic for Continental from 1987 - 91. CO was in bankruptcy. They were continually receiving new 737-300's and MD80's. They took delivery of new A300-B4's. A340's were in their future plans (later changed).

I don't buy the connection.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: GARUDAROD
Posted 2004-07-09 20:06:20 and read 17020 times.


National Geographic had a special a few weeks ago about the United B747
that lost the cargo door in flight. There was a good deal of depth and
detail into the NTSB investigation and a subsequent investigation by the
parents of one of the passengers killed. The first NTSB report did not deal
with the history of cargo doors having opened in flight by faulty wiring on the
on the lock motor. It was only after significant pressure and facts from the
investigation by the parents and fortune of luck to have another nearly
new B744 have the cargo door open by it self on the ground because of
faulty wiring that the report was amended to include that actual facts.
The point I'm making is the NTSB may research any ideas that do not
correspond with the official thinking, but may not include that information
in its final reports. Hence although their report on TW800 is official, it may
not contain the truth!

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2004-07-09 21:05:32 and read 16983 times.

>>>Hence although their report on TW800 is official, it may
not contain the truth!
<<<

Have you read the entire report?




Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: GARUDAROD
Posted 2004-07-09 22:56:24 and read 16914 times.

Yes, I have read the entire report. The conclusions they draw fit well
with the information provided, but Im just saying they have a precedent
for not always including all of the information reviewed if it may skew
the opinion they are trying to get across.

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Aa717driver
Posted 2004-07-09 23:46:51 and read 16872 times.

The TWA pilots who were on the ALPA accident investigation team are STILL prohibited from discussing the investigation.

A friend was in the TWA safety dept. and it's the same story.

There was an initial report by the MH-60 pilot from the NYANG from Suffolk who was actually out there on an exercise and indicated that he saw a missile. He was a Viet Nam vet who had seen missles. This was in a radio interview that night. It was never heard again and he gave no more interviews.TC

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: Slider
Posted 2004-07-10 07:34:39 and read 16746 times.

Hey AA717- e-mail me ref TW safety dept, k?

Topic: RE: The Crew Of TWA Flight 800
Username: N905TW
Posted 2004-07-12 19:43:41 and read 16522 times.

I am all in agreement about letting our fallen passengers and crewmembers rest in peace, and yes, I agree the memorial on Long Island is beautiful, but I still feel betrayed by our own government as to the "investigation".

I think we owe it to our lost friends, colleagues, and loved ones to make sure the truth is known, whatever that truth may be, and no matter how much it may hurt our government. In my opinion there is just too much conflicting data and coverups that began almost as soon as the news cameras were on scene. In math, 2+2 does not equal 9, and some of the theories and facts provided by the FAA, NTSB, CIA, etc just do not add up. And yes, I did read the entire and full NTSB report.

I was also at work that night, and can still feel a pit in my stomach when I think back to seeing the "BREAKING NEWS" graphic appear on the muted TV back behind our ticket counter. The first reports were that a flight to Paris had crashed on takeoff from JFK. We prayed out loud - please don't let it be us... but as we know, the prayers weren't heard that night. The rest of the night was terrible, as the phones rang off the hook and the local reporters arrived to shoot footage in front of our ticket counter.

A few years later I traded my agent uniform for a first officer uniform, and not a trip would go by that I didn't think about our lost crew when transiting the JFK hangar and terminal, or departing out of gate 27.

As a proud member of the TWA family who watched our airline crumble after the event, and as one who had flown on aircraft 17119 many times, I think we owe it to the ones we lost that night to find out what REALLY happened. Will we ever get that chance?

I apologize for any rambling... this is my first post to airliners.net!


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