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Topic: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Arrow
Posted 2004-07-15 23:48:36 and read 12167 times.

Question -

Anyone know what the fastest (level flight cruise) prop-driven plane was? Turbine or piston, any category. My hunch is it's one of those Russian bombers from the 50s -- but ...

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Texdravid
Posted 2004-07-15 23:54:54 and read 12140 times.

You mean the bears!!
Still in service, I might add!

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Tasha
Posted 2004-07-15 23:56:42 and read 12133 times.

It is one of the TU-??? Bear aircraft. I understand that they cruse at over 500mp/h and are are some of the noisest aircraft ever built. My father has an interesting picture of one taken while he was stationed at Kelflavic in Iceland. It is a Bear aircraft being escorted by two F-4E's

My vote is for the Bear.... If you ment 'NON' turboprop, I really don't know. I would imagine it to be one of the crazy German hybrid fighters of WW2... perhaps the TA152, or the thing with a propeller front and rear and twin supercharged Diamler-Benz engines.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Prebennorholm
Posted 2004-07-15 23:59:36 and read 12124 times.

I believe it was the Republic F-84H torboprop fighter prototype.

There were other prop planes with turbojet or rocket assist, but I guess that they don't count.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Prebennorholm
Posted 2004-07-16 00:10:07 and read 12097 times.

BTW, my father saved a weekly popular journal from 1929 with an article about air travel. The article suggested that in ten years time (1939 !!!) airliners would fly four times faster than the fastest present planes.

They would cruise at around 1400 km/h (870 mph).

There was a drawing of such a future airliner. It had a huge radial engine up front and a propeller with a diameter slightly bigger than the wing span.

It was of course a bi-plane - the world's only supersonic bi-plane  Big thumbs up

(Too bad that progress has been so immensely much slower than predicted 75 years ago).

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: TT737FO
Posted 2004-07-16 00:11:38 and read 12090 times.

Fastest Turboprop: Tupolev TU-114 (Bear is a variant of this aircraft).

Fastest Single Engine: F8F Bearcat

Fastest 4 engine Radial A/c: B-29

Believe it or not, Lockheed Electra is up there...I think it cruises at 310kts or so.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Frugalqxnwa
Posted 2004-07-16 00:40:11 and read 12033 times.

TT737FO,

The TU-114 was a passenger airliner derived from the Tu-95 Bear bomber. The Bear came out first, and then Tupolev developed the airliner so Aeroflot could fly to Japan and the United States.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2004-07-16 00:45:12 and read 12031 times.

And some more answers:

- The Bear is designated Tu-95 and strictly speaking the Tu-114 is a development of the Tu-95, not the other way around.

- the thing with a propeller front and rear and twin supercharged Diamler-Benz engines. would be the Do-335 Pfeil (http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/dornier_do335.htm). The Pfeil is the fastest production piston-engined fighter ever built, with a record of 846km/h (474mph)

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Prebennorholm
Posted 2004-07-16 00:52:03 and read 12020 times.

TT737FO: Fastest Turboprop: Tupolev TU-114 (Bear is a variant of this aircraft).
The Republic XF-84H made 670 mph, or some 150 mph more than the Tu-114.

TT737FO: Fastest Single Engine: F8F Bearcat
The Republic XF-84H was single engined, but unlike the F8F a turbine engine.

TT737FO: Fastest 4 engine Radial A/c: B-29
The B-50 was basically a B-29D with 3500HP P&W R4360 engines. It was the fastest of that family. But even faster was the the Republic XF-12 Rainbow, also with four P&W R-4360.
(Later B-50s like the KB-50J had 2 x GE J-47 jet assist, they don't count of course).

In May 1946 the XF-12 Rainbow set a new cross country speed record for multi engined aircrafts on a flight from Wright Field, Ohio to New York. On the 576 miles it averaged 426 mph which was 51 mph faster than the previous record set by a Lockheed Constellation.

AA and Pan Am ordered some 40 examples of the Rainbow, but since the USAF chose the RB-50 in favor of the F-12, then only 3 prototypes were built.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: SupraZachAir
Posted 2004-07-16 00:55:41 and read 12007 times.

Lets not forget the Dash-8 Q400 which is no slouch at 350kts.

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Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: LY7E7
Posted 2004-07-16 01:49:39 and read 11953 times.

Tasha :
Bear escorted by F4s sounds amazing (actually sounds like a cold war mistery  Smile ). When did the story occure?

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: SonOfACaptain
Posted 2004-07-16 02:24:26 and read 11906 times.

What about the doorknob. I hear they are pretty fast, at least compared to the dash 8.


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Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: PeterPuck
Posted 2004-07-16 04:59:50 and read 11818 times.

What about the Piaggio Avanti. It's faster than a Citation.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Tasha
Posted 2004-07-16 05:17:11 and read 11805 times.

LY7e7:

"Tasha :
Bear escorted by F4s sounds amazing (actually sounds like a cold war mistery ). When did the story occur"

My Father was stationed in Iceland well before I was born in the mid 1970's, I'll have to ask him for sure, but I would assume it is around 1975, or 1976. He has told me quite a number of interesting stories about the happenings back then, as I unlike my Sister, have always had a keen interest in aviation.

His favorite stories are however about the hurried attempts to catch the Soviet reconnaissance Backfire's. At the time there were only F-4E's at Keflavic. That they kept several of them fitted with four Sparrow missiles only and a centerline droptank. The Soviet aircraft flew so high and so fast that it was very difficult for the F-4 to reach them. He said that they would thunder aloft in a maximum performance climb with full afterburners, dropping the centerline tank once it was empty, then continuing up on internal fuel only. Reaching an altitude above that of the Backfires, they would paint them with their radars. He said something about loiter times of 10-15 minutes before they had to come back as they were out of fuel, or link up with a tanker.

The Backfires used to do this often, until the F-15's arrived... then the Backfires kept a far more respectful distance. Ahhh.. the cold war days: what a waste of resources. But without the cold war, I think we would still be flying around in propeller driven aircraft and the like.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: WestIndian425
Posted 2004-07-16 06:01:07 and read 11763 times.

PeterPuck beat me to it.

I was going to suggest the Piaggio Aero Avanti. If it could bear the Ferrari logo, it probably isn't a slouch.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


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Neil

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: L-188
Posted 2004-07-16 06:11:12 and read 11742 times.

Iceland did a lot of bear intercepts as did the fighter squadrons in Alaska.

Every base club had to have the shot of two of the local fighters...F-102's, F-106's, F-4E's, F-15's depending on there era escorting the bombers.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Stirling
Posted 2004-07-16 06:29:38 and read 11720 times.

TT737FO-
The top speed of the L188 was a whopping 445mph.....The 310mph number was what they were reduced to after the accidents.

I think normal cruise was high 300s/low 400s.

Even as fast as the Electra was, the Vickers Vanguard was still FASTER.
The four RR Tynes were monsters, pumping out over 5,500 hp, compared to the 3,750hp Allisons.....The Vanguard was a bigger plane, 18 feet longer, 19 foot wider wingspan. The apex of civilian turboprop airliner development, if not a commercial success.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: L-188
Posted 2004-07-16 06:38:22 and read 11699 times.

Don't think so,

More likely to save gas.

Those Allisons wheren't exactly thrifty on the fuel.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Stirling
Posted 2004-07-16 06:54:55 and read 11671 times.

According to R E G Davies, considered one of the foremost authors in commercial aviation:

The economical cruise was 405mph, even though, in extreme circumstances the top end was 448mph, because yes you are correct, fuel was cheap, but not cheap enough to compensate for the thirsty Alisons.
However, as to reasons for the reductions from the 'advertised' cruise speed.....
Three crashes prompted an FAA investigation, first in Jan59 with AA, followed in Sep59 of a BN Electra, then Mar60 with NW.
The FAA on 25Mar60 ordered the cruising speed dropped from 400mph to 316mph, then 295mph.
Lockheed undertook a $25million modification program which resulted in speed restrictions being lifted on 31Dec60, the Electra II returning to full speed in Feb61 with EA.

Correcting myself, the Alison 501-D13, were rated at 4,050ehp, not 3,750ehp as I stated before.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: RduBE90Pilot
Posted 2004-07-16 10:15:51 and read 11599 times.

Don't forget the Piper Cheyenne 400LS. It trues out around 350-360kts. with a ceiling of 41,000 Ft.

Eric

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: TT737FO
Posted 2004-07-16 10:27:04 and read 11585 times.

This is kind of a digression...I've always been fascinated with the Lockheed Electra (L188). My Grandfather was on his way to Florida in early 1960 but changed his plans in Chicago at the last minute. He was upset at the time because he absolutely loved flying on the Electra--real state of the art back then. The flight he was supposed to be on wound up crashing in Tell City, Indiana--no bodies were ever recovered.

At any rate the Tell City crash kicked off a big investigation...unprecedented in those days. The speed of the Electra was always suspect--even though it turned out that "whirl mode" was the cause.

If anyone is interested on some development/engineering/history/investigation work here is an interesting link:

http://www.ec.erau.edu/cce/faculty/electra_2.ppt

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Canberra
Posted 2004-07-16 11:19:02 and read 11550 times.

LY7E7,

Bear escorted by F4s sounds amazing (actually sounds like a cold war mystery). When did the story occure?

Guess that happened more or less weekly (if not daily) all the way uptil the mid-nineties in the triangle between Northern Norway, Scotland and Iceland. Intercepts/escorts like that were not uncommon over the Baltic sea either, but usually that was not the big bombers, but smaller fighterbombers or even fighters. I have seen plenty of pictures of Danish aircraft escorting Soviet aircraft in international airspace not far away from Denmark.

All the best, Michael (I bit off-topic I know)

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Pelican
Posted 2004-07-16 12:23:01 and read 11505 times.

Bear escorted by F4s sounds amazing (actually sounds like a cold war mystery). When did the story occure?



pelican

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Russophile
Posted 2004-07-16 12:39:42 and read 11488 times.

Tu-114 max speed was 870km/h -- cruise speed was 770km/h
Tu-95MS max speed is 925km/h at 12,000m.

The Republic XF-84H made 670 mph, or some 150 mph more than the Tu-114.

It was designed to fly at 1072km/h but never flew faster than 832km/h. It only flew 12 times and out of those 12 flights, 11 landings were of the 'emergency' type.

Sorry peeps, but nothing can beat those NK-12MVs.



[Edited 2004-07-16 12:40:19]

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Jwenting
Posted 2004-07-16 12:53:23 and read 11460 times.

Technically the XF-84H was a jet with a prop added to it and not a pure turboprop in the current meaning of the word.
The thrust from the jet exhaus added power which in current aircraft doesn't happen.

Bear intercepts happened nearly daily over the north Atlantic and north Pacific.
Apart from Alaska and Iceland other areas were the North Sea, Lapland, Aleutans and Sea of Japan.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: L-188
Posted 2004-07-16 13:18:23 and read 11434 times.

Technically the XF-84H was a jet with a prop added to it and not a pure turboprop in the current meaning of the word.
The thrust from the jet exhaus added power which in current aircraft doesn't happen


Even today's turboprops have SHP, or Shaft Horsepower and EHP, equivalent (I have seen Estimated also in some references) Horsepower.

The difference is that SHP is the power from the shaft. EHP Factors in the effect of exhaust...

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: N328KF
Posted 2004-07-16 13:39:20 and read 11415 times.

If the L-188 was restricted by top speed due to the FAA, then the DoD certainly is going to take advantage of any capability there, especially in wartime.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Laddb
Posted 2004-07-16 16:10:15 and read 11338 times.

Have to add my story.

A friend of my fathers was in the Louisiana Air National Guard and flew F4s in Iceland. He gave me this photo - he is flying the F4. The bears would fly into the airspace to provoke a response and see how quickly it took the F4s to get there. He told me stories, which I'm sure some of you have already heard, about how they used to actually be friendly to the Russian crews. He told me they would bring up playboy magazines and hold the centerfolds up against the cockpit window for the Russians to see. Sort of a tongue in cheek invitation to defect and see American women. But supposedly they would wave goodbye when it was time to breakaway, so things were not tense as you might expect.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2004-07-16 16:15:42 and read 11330 times.

This is getting a bit OT, but when SR-71s overflew the Baltic, similar intercepts were tried.

Only one plane ever managed to radar lock the SR-71, a Swedish Royal Air Force Viggen. Legend has it they even received a telegram of congratulations.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Greg
Posted 2004-07-16 16:22:31 and read 11318 times.

Don't flame me here.
Has any propeller plane, turbine or otherwise, broken the sound barrier?
Is it possible with props???

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: MakeMinesLax
Posted 2004-07-16 18:31:45 and read 11228 times.

Has any propeller plane, turbine or otherwise, broken the sound barrier?
Is it possible with props???


I recall, in a program about the development of the X-1, that trans-sonic tests were performed by the British using prop fighters (Spitfires, IIRC). The A/C was put into a dive to break the sound barrier, but became unresponsive to elevator input and couldn't pull out. These tests yielded the discovery that the traditional elevator design was inadequate (the airflow separated from the airfoil before reaching the trailing edge) and led to the development of the full-flying stabilizer.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Planemaker
Posted 2004-07-16 19:34:45 and read 10990 times.

I believe that the Dash8-Q400 is the fastest current prop airliner with a cruise speed of 360 knots using 5,071 shp PW150A's. BTW, the PW150's are de-rated and are waiting for another application to realize their potential (a 2-engined C-130 would be interesting.)

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: KALB
Posted 2004-07-16 19:56:39 and read 10892 times.

Don't forget the Saab 2000 which has a max cruise of 360 Knots (414 mph/667 kph), perhaps the fastest western turboprop in service today. Unfotunately it is a rare bird in the US due to our love affair with the RJs.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Spacepope
Posted 2004-07-16 20:12:04 and read 10819 times.

Regardign piston powered aircraft, i found this on Rare Bear:

"Lyle Shelton and his crew set their sights on capturing the 3Km World Speed Record for propeller driven aircraft - then 499.018 mph. Could the elusive 500 mph barrier be broken? A site for the challenge was scouted, and Las Vegas, New Mexico was selected for its high altitude and desert air. On Monday, August 21, 1989 the Rare Bear faced the challenge, sprinting the four legs of the course at an average speed of 528.33 mph - shattering the previous record by almost 30 mph! "

The official website lists the top speed at 540mph@5000ft.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Tin67
Posted 2004-07-16 20:17:11 and read 10796 times.

In terms of the single engine, there was the Hawker Fury/ Sea Fury. This was the last piston engine fighter in the Royal Navy.

The fury was listed as doing 460 mph (740 km/h) which I believe is slightly quicker that the Bearcat with both being standard variants.

A modified Bearcat ran at over 520mph so this must be the record holder for the single engine piston powered plane.

Martin

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: TWAMD-80
Posted 2004-07-16 20:50:04 and read 10655 times.

That's a fast and mean looking airplane, the TU-95. Heres a pic that I ran across in the database I just thought I'd share. Good remark.  Smile


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Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: MakeMinesLax
Posted 2004-07-16 21:04:07 and read 10598 times.

Re: the Rare Bear

I'm sure many of you recall the attempt by Burt Rutan and company to best this mark with the Pond Racer. Granted, it wasn't a single-engine piston, but a prop plane nonetheless. Sadly, both the pilot and A/C were lost during one of the trials.

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Isitsafenow
Posted 2004-07-16 21:37:41 and read 10471 times.

Fastest single engine must be the P-51 Mustang. Thats why you see a lot of them at the Reno air races in September.
Turbo-prop airliner may be L-188 that cruised around 410 and topped out close to 450.
Fastest U.S. built piston was the DC7B which cruised at 365 and topped out very close to 400mph.
safe

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Dufo
Posted 2004-07-16 22:28:46 and read 10288 times.

"An STC has reportedly been approved for five bladed scimitar propellers from Hartzell, which apart from improving ground clearance, will increase the maximum speed by a remarkable 60 knots to well over 400 knots!"

(copied from http://www.fliteguide.co.za/Imperial_Aviation/Full_aircraft_reports/FR_piper_cheyenne_pg1.htm

That's for the Cheyenne LS400..

Jernej

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Gib
Posted 2004-07-16 22:35:19 and read 10263 times.

Laddb...,

"Coonass Militia"... ROFL! Gotta' love it!

Beech Starship is probably up there as well...

Gib

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2004-07-16 22:57:09 and read 10180 times.

Fastest single engine must be the P-51 Mustang. Thats why you see a lot of them at the Reno air races in September.

Talking single-engine pistons: You probably see a lot of P-51s because so many were built. There is quite a supply of fixer-uppers lying around compared to other types. The P-51 did not outperform late war/post war designs like the Pfeil and the late model Spitfires. It was probably about on par in real terms.

Approximate top speeds:
- P51H - 487MPH. IIRC the "H" variant did not see service in WWII
- Do-335 Pfeil - 474mph.
- Ta-152 (development of the Fw-190) - 465mph
- Supermarine Spitfire F Mk XXIV (Griffon Engine) - 451mph
These are well within the margin of error of each other, considering the measurement methods used.


[Edited 2004-07-16 22:58:48]

Topic: RE: Fastest Prop-driven Plane
Username: SidestickA320
Posted 2004-07-16 23:33:23 and read 10043 times.

sorry to keep the topic running, but i'll agree with the Piaggio Avanti... check out the website for (hopefully) factual records...

http://www.piaggioamerica.com/frameset.asp?pagefinder=news&newsID=1

fast enough for me!

SSA320


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