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Topic: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Nwfltattendant
Posted 2004-08-12 01:21:50 and read 7854 times.

I was looking through SXM photos and found this one. I thought to myself, yes, this happens to a degree at just about every airline, but not the severity I see here. Is US cutting any corner possible now ? This looks horrible. Yeah theres the normal airlines that are known for dirty planes, I dont need to mention specifics, but this looks BAD. I know that this has no bearing on flight performance, but this is obviously a sign of whats going on at US right now.


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[Edited 2004-08-12 01:34:36]

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Skyway1
Posted 2004-08-12 01:31:08 and read 7737 times.

Looks bad.......good for a chuckle......but has no effect on the performance of the airplane. As long as the plane is in working order who cares??? When I was with Skyway they had to put speed tape on the radome of a 328Jet....did it look funny??? Yes...but the airplane flew the way it was supposed to. Right now we(C8) have a Saab flying around with duct tape on the side of the A/C. As long as the plane flies passengers from point A to point B who cares???

Chris

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2004-08-12 01:38:01 and read 7676 times.

Perhaps this is an a/c that is due for replacement, retirement or repaint soon any way. Why worry about it, so long as not affecting the safety of the a/c is the issue. I do agree it does suggest that there are getting sloppy at the edges at US problems.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2004-08-12 01:43:32 and read 7647 times.

As long as the plane is in working order who cares???

I think the average passenger cares, because then why would airlines spend so much on liveries, logos, names and the whole "corporate identity and image" circus.
What question comes naturally to one's mind when you see picture like this? "If it's so bad with things I CAN see, then how much worse it's gotta be with things I CAN'T see" This of course may or may not be in fact true, but it does no good to airline's prestige and reputation and passenger's trust that's for sure.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Skyway1
Posted 2004-08-12 01:55:57 and read 7575 times.

L410Turbolet.....

I agree it does look bad...especially if it's something visible that the pasengers can see. But I've worked on the other side of the operation and as long as the plane is in good working order I could care less if some paint is peeling.... Many of the average pax that do notice this kind of thing are enthusiasts. Like I said we have(or did...not sure if they fixed it yet) a Saab flying with duct tape on the side. I haven't had a pax say a word about it. So I agree it may indicate some airline sloppiness....but as long as the plane is in working order I couldn't care less.

Chris

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: TransPac
Posted 2004-08-12 03:17:30 and read 7418 times.

I think you are making a fallacious assumption by connecting the condition of this particular plane to the financial difficulties that US is facing. I'd bet most of the big carriers have at least one or two planes at any given time that have similar rough spots. The plane in the picture is probably due for maintenance soon, as LTBEWR suggested. Unless you see a good number of bashed up birds in US colors, I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

--Paddy

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Aa757first
Posted 2004-08-12 03:32:02 and read 7379 times.


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AAndrew

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Kim777fan
Posted 2004-08-12 03:39:43 and read 7328 times.

Yikes!! Those pictures in a rather short recent time span of multiple aircraft at multiple locations speak for themselves.

I've seen better paint jobs on Amtrak.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Nwfltattendant
Posted 2004-08-12 04:17:00 and read 7254 times.

Aa757...thanks for the picture parade

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: A330323X
Posted 2004-08-12 05:42:00 and read 7102 times.

US did open a paint track a few months ago for planes in need of new paint in advance of a heavy maintenance visit. They're working on the backlog, but some planes, particularly the 767s, can't be removed from service for even a short period because they're scheduled to the max during the summer travel period.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: StevenUhl777
Posted 2004-08-12 05:49:04 and read 7080 times.

With all due respect, who cares?

Certainly not the average passenger, that's for sure. What DO they care about? Only one thing...the price tag on their ticket. If the paint job is really obvious, then it might be a 2 minute conversation at the gate while waiting to board, but that's where it ends. As long as Joe passenger gets the lowest price, he's happy.

When I flew SEA-IAD a little over a month ago, I noticed on that 757 that the paint on the tail cone looked exactly like this...and I'll bet I was the ONLY person on that plane to have noticed it.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: KBUF737
Posted 2004-08-12 06:01:05 and read 7054 times.

Didn't US have a problem with paint? I read a while back that it was chipping and cracking quite easily and as a result they converted some of the airplanes to the .com livery. I believe it had to do with switching from clearcoat to paint, and the paint had trouble sticking. This also led to a problem with lap joints cracking as well was there not?

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: 9844
Posted 2004-08-12 06:07:00 and read 7036 times.

You all over looked the obvious. A leaking rudder PCU would cause the paint to peel in this location. That would scare me.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: N670UW
Posted 2004-08-12 06:22:38 and read 7016 times.

I read a while back that it was chipping and cracking quite easily and as a result they converted some of the airplanes to the .com livery

Not quite. The two aircraft in the usairways.com livery (Acft 350 and 573) were damaged by a paint vendor in New Iberia, LA, who used razor blades to remove paint. The two aircraft had to be stripped of their paint and are frequently monitored for structural integrity.



670

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: N628AU
Posted 2004-08-12 07:28:40 and read 6835 times.

9844 said:

You all over looked the obvious. A leaking rudder PCU would cause the paint to peel in this location. That would scare me.

N628AU responds:

You forgot something even more obvious: APU exhaust.

Note the pics above. Nearly every aircraft was factory delivered in the bare metal livery of USAir. These non-factory paint jobs were done horribly by an outside vendor (probably a penny wise pound foolish MBA awarded the deal). The 757 is plauged by chipping paint in this area due the heat of the APU exhaust peeling it away. Note many types with the APU exhaust in that area (ERJ 145 and CRJ 700 for example), have stainless non painted attachments at the exhaust point.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: COEWR2587
Posted 2004-08-12 07:33:16 and read 6809 times.

This is pretty sad!!!!!

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Ramerinianair
Posted 2004-08-12 07:49:37 and read 6755 times.

KBUF,
it makes sence! The only paint that is chipping off is the blue paint-the part that used to be polished.
SR

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: IL76
Posted 2004-08-12 08:02:50 and read 6699 times.

I think US Airways made a mistake going to a black livery. It's very sensitive to heating up enormously under sunlight. The body panels expand (when the plane is on the ground) and shrink (in the air). I know that all planes have this regardless of their colour, but perhaps the black paint increases the speed of shrinking and expanding causing the paint to crack. Nothing wrong with the airplane though. I've seen this only on US Airways. Does anyone know any other airline with a black(-ish) livery to compare maybe?

Cheers,
Eduard

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: A330323X
Posted 2004-08-12 08:38:46 and read 6589 times.

These non-factory paint jobs were done horribly by an outside vendor (probably a penny wise pound foolish MBA awarded the deal).

There's actually a perfectly good reason why US shut down its paint tracks (around 1993 IIRC) and outsourced the aircraft painting. The EPA significantly tightened regulations and made the US paint facilities obsolete. The investment necessary to bring them up to standard was far too much to be worth it.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Aacun
Posted 2004-08-12 08:54:59 and read 6547 times.

While were in the subject. This morning taking off from MIA I say a US 737 which had the black tail but the body of the plane was polished. Is this a test of some sort, or just a plane waiting for its full colors?

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: A330323X
Posted 2004-08-12 08:59:58 and read 6523 times.

While were in the subject. This morning taking off from MIA I say a US 737 which had the black tail but the body of the plane was polished. Is this a test of some sort, or just a plane waiting for its full colors?

See http://www.usairways.com/about/press/nw_04_0304.htm.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: JGPH1A
Posted 2004-08-12 10:58:28 and read 6259 times.

I think passengers do care a bit. If you are in the boarding area and parked by your jetway is a grubby Delta 727 with paint peeling from round the windscreen and the nosecone, it doesn't look that promising. And if when you board, the paint from around the doorframe and round the windows is peeling too, OK its not a major maintenance alert, but you do think, hmmmmm - how well are they looking after this poor old plane ?

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Potomac
Posted 2004-08-12 11:09:05 and read 6220 times.

yes, it would be nice if it and others were repainted where and when needed. but with utilization rates and other factors, it makes sense why you might be seeing this.

of course, if there was an article about US taking the time and money to do a significant repainting of their fleet to address issues like these, i'm sure nobody on this forum would question their actions or make any comments about the appropriateness of such decisions given US' financial state.

damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: Solnabo
Posted 2004-08-12 13:42:53 and read 5915 times.

AF to wash their planes

US to paint their planes

Cheers  Big thumbs up

Micke

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: KBUF737
Posted 2004-08-12 13:49:18 and read 5892 times.

Is it black or just a deep deep navy?

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2004-08-12 14:47:36 and read 5689 times.

Is it black or just a deep deep navy?

I believe that it's supposed to be a deep dark navy livery.

Back when US had their silver livery, they were bragging about the 'weight savings' from using less paint; a claim that had since been debunked.


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Maybe they should've kept the old USAir livery instead of going for a modified Royal Jordanian look.


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Incidentally, the US 733 I flew from PHL to DFW last Friday (N532AU) had peeling paint along the top right-hand side of the fuselage.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2004-08-12 15:22:43 and read 5518 times.

The paint damage points to a leaking rudder PCU in the past (though I can´t make out any currnt leakage on the picture), Skydrol hydraulic fluid has the properties of a good paint stripper, and the damage is right beneath the access panels for the rudder mechanism.
Concerning the idea about paint damage through heat from the APU exhaust, this is utter BS.
First, the APU is sited aft of the damage, secondly, it is encased in a stainless steel APU compartement (to contain a possible APU fire). During APU operation a fan blows continously cooling air through this compartment and overboard through a hole on the left side (just aft and below the elevator). The APU exhaust pipe is even further aft and is insulated.
If the heat in this compartment would be high enough to cause damage, the APU fire warning would go off.

Jan

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: An-225
Posted 2004-08-12 15:59:59 and read 5268 times.

I personally prefer dark liveries. They look much classier. As for the chipping paint at the APU region - that is caused by the APU exhaust. That's why on a few of our (United) 767s, the area is unpainted - just silver.

Alex.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2004-08-12 16:10:20 and read 5194 times.

AN-225,

I just stated that the damaged area is not even near the APU exhaust pipe, but instead right beneath the rudder PCUs (I´ve changed rudder PCUs on B757s several times, I´ve changeed APUs on 757s as well). You can make out the forward outline of the APU compartment door about foot aft of the number 612 under the elevator. It is exactly in the area leaking skydrol would run to. Also, right under the paint damage area are the trunnions of the horizontal stab and the elevator mechanism. The APU is further aft.


Jan

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: 757drvr
Posted 2004-08-12 17:39:42 and read 4765 times.

With all due respect, who cares?

While most of us know that it really doesn't reflect the overall airworthiness, some passengers might think otherwise especially the ones that don't fly very much. I am sure that some passengers wonder what else might be going neglected if they can't even keep the airplane looking somewhat nice. There are many nervous flyer's out there that are probably more nervous when they see an airplane with all the paint coming off pull up to the gate. I am sure it crosses their mind a few times during the flight.

Topic: RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?
Username: AEroc
Posted 2004-08-12 22:08:56 and read 3542 times.

HI All,

Just got back in from flying and on final app in ROC noticed a Dash-8 in the holding bay either departing for PHL or LGA which are both on ground stops from the sound of things and noticed both props shut down. I know the dash-8 has a APU but I don't think I have seen both props stopped while pax are on board. That's probably a great way to save a lot of cash when the ground stop is a long one. Just a thought.


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